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How did they win such a ridiculously small amount of international caps?



Kopstar

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Over 12 years, yes, Dalglish got a similar amount over a similar number of years as well (102 in 15 whilst Charlton had 106 in 12).
I see, so the reason players might have got less caps than their talent deserved is now because they had shorter careers?

Right.
 

sms1986

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I see, so the reason players might have got less caps than their talent deserved is now because they had shorter careers?

Right.
I commented that they played less international games back then, you for some reason replied with your post about Charlton and I gave you a reply saying that one of our own legends got a similar number of caps in a similar number of years. Where have I mentioned shorter careers or implied that it was a reason for them getting less caps?
 



Kopstar

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I commented that they played less international games back then, you for some reason replied with your post about Charlton and I gave you a reply saying that one of our own legends got a similar number of caps in a similar number of years. Where have I mentioned shorter careers or implied that it was a reason for them getting less caps?
You mentioned the period over which those players won their caps.

Also, when you say "they didn't play as many international games back then"? When are you talking about?

Just taking England as an example, the amount of games played per decade from the 50s is,

50s - 85 games
60s - 100 games
70s - 99 games
80s - 116 games
90s - 112 games
2000s - 117 games
2010s - 112 games (so far, scheduled to play 120 in total)

[Incidentally, our 119th game this decade (v Montenegro) will also be the country's 1,000th international fixture]

So it seems to me that since the 60s and certainly since the 80s there have been a fairly equivalent amount of international fixtures per decade.
 

sms1986

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You mentioned the period over which those players won their caps.

Also, when you say "they didn't play as many international games back then"? When are you talking about?

Just taking England as an example, the amount of games played per decade from the 50s is,

50s - 85 games
60s - 100 games
70s - 99 games
80s - 116 games
90s - 112 games
2000s - 117 games
2010s - 112 games (so far, scheduled to play 120 in total)

[Incidentally, our 119th game this decade (v Montenegro) will also be the country's 1,000th international fixture]

So it seems to me that since the 60s and certainly since the 80s there have been a fairly equivalent amount of international fixtures per decade.
Fair enough on the number of international games although I don't believe there's anything sinister about why some of our players didn't get as many caps as others did.
 

Kopstar

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Fair enough on the number of international games although I don't believe there's anything sinister about why some of our players didn't get as many caps as others did.
Neither do I. Some international football managers are morons. Some have their favourites (perhaps from their days as club managers?). Some play shit systems. Some players might not complement the team. Some players are unlucky with the competition of their peers. Some players didn't thrive on the international stage. Some players are withdrawn from internationals by their clubs. Some players make themselves unavailable for various reasons.

Lots of reasons why a player might have received less caps than their talent deserved. Hence the thread. You seem to be paranoid that everyone's trying to advance a narrative of some sort of sinister conspiracy.
 

sms1986

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Neither do I. Some international football managers are morons. Some have their favourites (perhaps from their days as club managers?). Some play shit systems. Some players might not complement the team. Some players are unlucky with the competition of their peers. Some players didn't thrive on the international stage. Some players are withdrawn from internationals by their clubs. Some players make themselves unavailable for various reasons.

Lots of reasons why a player might have received less caps than their talent deserved. Hence the thread. You seem to be paranoid that everyone's trying to advance a narrative of some sort of sinister conspiracy.
I'm not paranoid about that, it's just that the same ones arguing for a certain opinion in the conspiracy thread are the same ones in here finding reasons why a player didn't get as many caps as he probably should have done. Like you say, plenty of reasons why this might have been and I agree with that.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Neither do I. Some international football managers are morons. Some have their favourites (perhaps from their days as club managers?). Some play shit systems. Some players might not complement the team. Some players are unlucky with the competition of their peers. Some players didn't thrive on the international stage. Some players are withdrawn from internationals by their clubs. Some players make themselves unavailable for various reasons.

Lots of reasons why a player might have received less caps than their talent deserved. Hence the thread. You seem to be paranoid that everyone's trying to advance a narrative of some sort of sinister conspiracy.
Just from an England standpoint it often feels like we get a clutch of top players who all happen to play in the same position, and hence some must miss out. Like the glut of outstanding strikers in the mid-90s, or CBs in the early-ish 00s. We even had a phase of having a spate of good goalies all at the same time.

Given that it still feels a bit odd that man for man I don't think our current squad can hold much of a candle to the teams around then, yet in terms of performance they're doing much better. Having a strong team ethic as opposed to a squad of talented individualists certainly helps, I guess.
 



Kopstar

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Just from an England standpoint it often feels like we get a clutch of top players who all happen to play in the same position, and hence some must miss out. Like the glut of outstanding strikers in the mid-90s, or CBs in the early-ish 00s. We even had a phase of having a spate of good goalies all at the same time.

Given that it still feels a bit odd that man for man I don't think our current squad can hold much of a candle to the teams around then, yet in terms of performance they're doing much better. Having a strong team ethic as opposed to a squad of talented individualists certainly helps, I guess.
As do favourable draws!

I thought we were brilliant under Venables. Had he been able to stick around I reckon he would have made a bloody good team out of the 'golden' generation.
 

Flobs

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Wow. I´ve been reading the Conspiracy theory thread. I can´t post in their anymore but Mascot88 Wow!!! Your reasoning is great, you just don´t apply it to your own posts. Amazingly hypocritical (of course imho). And for someone who´s become so invested in that thread, you shouldn´t be moderating it. You can´t without any bias. See what I did there?

Anyway Flobs, it doesn´t matter what the question was, it could be how, why, what, when and where. The point is Jocky was a far better player than any of those donkeys.
Willie Miller was no donkey. Your embarassing yourself!
 

Mascot88

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Wow. I´ve been reading the Conspiracy theory thread. I can´t post in their anymore but Mascot88 Wow!!! Your reasoning is great, you just don´t apply it to your own posts. Amazingly hypocritical (of course imho). And for someone who´s become so invested in that thread, you shouldn´t be moderating it. You can´t without any bias. See what I did there?
So having being banned from the conspiracy thread, and coming off a two-day ban recently, you thought you have a pop at me in a completely different thread, in which up to now I have played no part?

Just catching up in here, you’re conduct with other posters has been just as bad as it was in the conspiracy thread.

Wow indeed. See you in a week.
 

Quicksand

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I'm not paranoid about that, it's just that the same ones arguing for a certain opinion in the conspiracy thread are the same ones in here finding reasons why a player didn't get as many caps as he probably should have done. Like you say, plenty of reasons why this might have been and I agree with that.
Who is that then?
Seriously
 

sms1986

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Who is that then?
Seriously
People like you and KDLFCL, I don't mean it in an offensive way, I'm just making the observation that this thread is very similar to the conspiracy thread in that way.
 



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People like you and KDLFCL, I don't mean it in an offensive way, I'm just making the observation that this thread is very similar to the conspiracy thread in that way.
Let it go. This thread is about a wholly different topic than the other one. Nothing to moan about here.
 

Kopstar

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People like you and KDLFCL, I don't mean it in an offensive way, I'm just making the observation that this thread is very similar to the conspiracy thread in that way.
In that one of the shared elements is a feeling of someone/something perhaps being hard done by? That seems to be the only common theme and I don't see what's wrong with discussing such subjects nor do I find it surprising that some posters might be more or less attuned to circumstances where they might suspect some sort of injustice.
 

Quicksand

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People like you and KDLFCL, I don't mean it in an offensive way, I'm just making the observation that this thread is very similar to the conspiracy thread in that way.
Its not. But you are attempting to drag it in that direction. You know what you are doing
 



William Clarke

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Looking at it from a totally different perspective, I bloody well hate it when any of our lads go out on international duty. I'm always worried that they are going to get crocked. I know players like playing for their country, but I certainly don't, so I don't care if they're picked or not.
 

Quicksand

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Looking at it from a totally different perspective, I bloody well hate it when any of our lads go out on international duty. I'm always worried that they are going to get crocked. I know players like playing for their country, but I certainly don't, so I don't care if they're picked or not.
I agree totally. International breaks must grate on managers, wondering if players will return injured.