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Is it a striker we really need, or is it something else...?

LeoT

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Well, FSG have obviously wanted their 30 million back, so Rodgers had to deliver at least part of it ... Personally, I think that the full 30 million are still not repaid, and that it will effect our spending in January ...
If it was my money I would want a return on it.

I know you need to speculate in order to accumulate, however after Kenny blew the purse of cash given to him last season, I wouldn't just give new manager another sackfull to speculate with.

I think we should buy a new forward, however not at 'any price', if we can't afford new players then we should stick with the players we have, and then do our best with them.

Thats the way i spend my money and I would not expect our Owners to do anything different with theirs.
 

LeoT

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If you are satisfied with mid-table mediocrity and the occasional Europa League participation, that is probably the right thing to do ...
Would you take your life savings out and buy "the next big player"?
I bet you would think very carefully about who you bought and for what price, even if it meant "mid-table mediocrity".

Why we as fans expect the club's owners to think in any other way is beyond me.
We are a football club, not some sort of charity.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Would you take your life savings out and buy "the next big player"?
I bet you would think very carefully about who you bought and for what price, even if it meant "mid-table mediocrity".

Why we as fans expect the club's owners to think in any other way is beyond me.
We are a football club, not some sort of charity.
We are not any football club ... We are Liverpool Football Club ... If our owners can't provide for our club to be competing for top honors, like the Premier League title or the Champions League title, then they are piss poor owners ...
 

Macedonian_Red

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What about the club providing its own funds. Wouldn't that be preferable to handouts that will just end up on the clubs books anyway?
What about FSG investing in a brand new stadium, so the club can provide it's own funds?
 

lfc.eddie

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What about the club providing its own funds. Wouldn't that be preferable to handouts that will just end up on the clubs books anyway?
In business there is a saying, spend money to make money. If you don't invest well, don't expect to see any returns. I don't agree with the notion of hands-free ownership, and coming in once in a while and doing their rounds with the media.
 

EdWood

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What about the club providing its own funds. Wouldn't that be preferable to handouts that will just end up on the clubs books anyway?
Like Arsenal for instance? Well a new stadium would have to be built and then we'd have to wait a few years until it pays for itself and even then, using Arsenal as the example, we still wouldn't be able to compete with the chavs and citeh as things stand. Until FFP is enforced rigourously, even a well-run club is going to be struggling to bring top talent while those two continue to buy everything good in the shop window. It's no coincedence that Arsenal stopped winning stuff when Abramovich hove into view to completely unbalance The Premiership as a competition in favour of the mega-rich; citeh just took it to the next level. As for the manure, they still manage to bring in top players even though they're massively in debt because the Glazers know how to work the system.

Unless your owners have limitless wealth or are canny businessmen, your club is up against it in the modern Premiership. We are up against it under FSG imo and will continue to be so unless UEFA get FFP absolutely right and close any loopholes that can be taken advantage of. The FA are supposedly going to enforce their own version of the rules but the FA itself is corrupt so I've little hope of them doing 90% of Premiership clubs any favours.
 

Mascot88

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I don't buy this "we've got to spend like drunken sailors to compete" rubbish. With a strong academy, sensible scouting and clever management we can be a match for anyone.

If Benitez could have us competing under one of the most toxic regimes in football, then Rodgers can do the same under the much more stable and sensible ownership of FSG*.

Ultimately the club needs to increase the amount of money it has available through increasing its commercial revenue, expanding the stadium (which is underway), and then using that money in a very efficient and canny way.

Where we trip up is when we waste the money we do have, and what we really need now is a player who can play as a wide striker when Suarez is playing, and deputise when he is not. You would be an idiot to move Suarez away from the central area, given he is absolutely on fire.



*Of course I am now immediately thinking about what Benitez could have done under FSG. I remember we'll how we used to say if only Rafa was allowed to spend the money he earned... how times have changed.
 

Macedonian_Red

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If Benitez could have us competing under one of the most toxic regimes in football, then Rodgers can do the same under the much more stable and sensible ownership of FSG*.

*Of course I am now immediately thinking about what Benitez could have done under FSG. I remember we'll how we used to say if only Rafa was allowed to spend the money he earned... how times have changed.
Rodgers is nowhere near Rafa, at least at the moment ... Rafa has arrived to LFC as UEFA's Manager Of The Year, and has repeated that success in the first season with us ... Expecting from Rodgers to do the same is simply too much ...
 

DEVGRU

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We are not any football club ... We are Liverpool Football Club ... If our owners can't provide for our club to be competing for top honors, like the Premier League title or the Champions League title, then they are piss poor owners ...
Isn't that against what FFP is all about?
 

Mascot88

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Rodgers is nowhere near Rafa, at least at the moment ... Rafa has arrived to LFC as UEFA's Manager Of The Year, and has repeated that success in the first season with us ... Expecting from Rodgers to do the same is simply too much ...
And yet Rodgers isn't hampered by owners actively destroying his squad to pay debts. Give him time and stable ownership and he won't be far off.

By the way Rafa with the 100m FSG have spent on the squad would have been a seriously scary prospect. :(
 

Macedonian_Red

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Isn't that against what FFP is all about?
Not if the owners invest their money in a new stadium, that would provide the necessary additional revenues for the club to be competitive ... And even under the FFP rules, the owners are allowed to invest €45 million of their own money into the squad, on top of the money that has been earned by the club ...
 

Macedonian_Red

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And yet Rodgers isn't hampered by owners actively destroying his squad to pay debts. Give him time and stable ownership and he won't be far off.
Please don't put such high expectations on Rodgers ... He is a talented manager, and he seems to be a very decent human being, but has a lot to learn if he is to match the manager who has made us the top ranked team in Europe once again ...

By the way Rafa with the 100m FSG have spent on the squad would have been a seriously scary prospect. :(
Well, they had the chance of getting him this summer, but they were not interested ... Probably because they never really had an intention of investing 100 million of their own money ...
 
K

Kev

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And yet Rodgers isn't hampered by owners actively destroying his squad to pay debts. Give him time and stable ownership and he won't be far off.

By the way Rafa with the 100m FSG have spent on the squad would have been a seriously scary prospect. :(
Neither was Rafa in his first season if we're going to make that comparision.

Rafa had a much healthier squad. He already had a midfield that included a prime Gerrard, Didi Hammann, and was then able to bring in Garcia and Alonso. Not fair to compare that to what Brendan has got to work with.

And I'm certainly not Brendan's biggest fan.

On the striker situation, given our current status, we could do a lot worse than try and go for Stephen Fletcher. Doubt we could afford what Sunderland would ask for him, but he'd be perfect in my opinion.

Really good striker.
 

Spitfire

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Not if the owners invest their money in a new stadium, that would provide the necessary additional revenues for the club to be competitive ... And even under the FFP rules, the owners are allowed to invest €45 million of their own money into the squad, on top of the money that has been earned by the club ...
How about you put up the first 4.5 million pound as a sign of good will........
 

Macedonian_Red

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How about you put up the first 4.5 million pound as a sign of good will........
Let me get this straight ... You think that FSG should not invest anything into the club, and you don't want to see us challenging for trophies again? Now, that is weird way of thinking for a LFC supporter ...
 

Sabat89

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Neither was Rafa in his first season if we're going to make that comparision.

Rafa had a much healthier squad. He already had a midfield that included a prime Gerrard, Didi Hammann, and was then able to bring in Garcia and Alonso. Not fair to compare that to what Brendan has got to work with.

And I'm certainly not Brendan's biggest fan.

On the striker situation, given our current status, we could do a lot worse than try and go for Stephen Fletcher. Doubt we could afford what Sunderland would ask for him, but he'd be perfect in my opinion.

Really good striker.
He's not versatile enough for the style Rodgers is trying to implement, and we seem to want to have Suarez as the central striker. Think along the lines of Walcott for the type of forward Rodgers will attempt to sign in the Jan transfer window.
 
K

Kev

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He's not versatile enough for the style Rodgers is trying to implement, and we seem to want to have Suarez as the central striker. Think along the lines of Walcott for the type of forward Rodgers will attempt to sign in the Jan transfer window.
I think you're right, he will go for a forward that can play anywhere across the front three. I just think he would work well with Suarez and Sterling either side. Could also be a good 442 option as well when certain opposition dictates.

But yeah, its not happening, I fully expect a Walcott type player. Which is also fine with me.

I'll worry when Suarez gets injured.
 

spizfromoz

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Whoever we get needs to work with what we have now - an exceptional dynamic moving forward in Suarez, a fast, gifted, young forward in Sterling, a yet to be fully understood forward in Borini and some young underdone talent in Morgan, Yesil, Ngoo, Sinclair. Anyone who can't fit exactly what we need will be a backwards step. But we need some type of intelligent, mature, proven scorer who can fit into whatever formation/match day selection we play. So I think we need a proven player, not a developer. One who can rotate without much fuss.
 

Mascot88

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Let me get this straight ... You think that FSG should not invest anything into the club, and you don't want to see us challenging for trophies again? Now, that is weird way of thinking for a LFC supporter ...
You're arguing from a false start.

Anything the owners put in - any owners - is going to be put back on the club in the form of debt. One way or another the club pays, and as such I would rather we didn't spend money we don't have coming in.
 

rab

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Let me get this straight ... You think that FSG should not invest anything into the club, and you don't want to see us challenging for trophies again? Now, that is weird way of thinking for a LFC supporter ...
They spent the thick end of £300m buying us and then got burned badly with the transfers during the Comoli/Kenny era. I think it's fairly reasonable to expect them to take a small step back and look at other ways of doing things as simply throwing money at transfers has not worked out too well thus far.

In reality there are only four top level clubs who have owners who run the club out of their own pockets where needed. Chelsea, City, PSG and Anji. Unfortunately two of those clubs are in our league which makes life tougher but we're in the same boat as all the other clubs in Europe bar these four. If we want to spend beyond our income it will be put on the club as debt. With some debt likely to come with the expansion of the stadium loading more of it onto the club now just to add a couple overpriced players is a dangerous game.

FSG have not bought the club to pour their own personal fortunes into. They are not here just to give us their money. They want to grow the club so it can support itself and be competative that way. You need to get your head round this as constantly complaining that they aren't investing their own personal billions into the club is futile, they have said they want it to be self sustaining so thats what we should expect. That situation is no different to 17 of the other 19 clubs in our league.

We all want the club to be challenging but the reality is we aren't one of those four clubs owned by people worth tens of billions of pounds who are happy to hand out blank cheques to allow us to sign the worlds best players. Accepting this reality doesn't make people a lesser supporter just a realistic one.
 

Macedonian_Red

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You're arguing from a false start.

Anything the owners put in - any owners - is going to be put back on the club in the form of debt.
Wrong ... Abramovich has already written off 700 million of Chelsea's "debt" to him ... The really ambitious owners do this ... Of course, I am not expecting that FSG should invest 700 million of their own money into LFC, but 200 million for the building of the stadium (on top of the naming rights deal) would would be a nice gesture ... Especially since they would still own that stadium ...
 

lfc.eddie

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Anything the owners put in - any owners - is going to be put back on the club in the form of debt. One way or another the club pays, and as such I would rather we didn't spend money we don't have coming in.
Sorry mate, this is something I find hard to accept as a supporter/fan of the club. If that is the way things are going to go with our owners today, then what would their role be? It is not like they are some footballing genius or legends where contribute in that part of our team or club. Unless someone tells me they are not drawing a dime of salaries for themselves in this investment, and not looking to cash some of the profit out of the club to serve their own shareholders, I certainly cannot agree about them not investing into the club.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Wrong ... Abramovich has already written off 700 million of Chelsea's "debt" to him ... The really ambitious owners do this ... Of course, I am not expecting that FSG should invest 700 million of their own money into LFC, but 200 million for the building of the stadium (on top of the naming rights deal) would would be a nice gesture ... Especially since they would still own that stadium ...
He has bought them for £140 million and at first they were in debt to him but then to get round up coming FFP he "wrote off" that £700 million (if your figure is right havent checked it) and made that £700 million part of his ownership of the club meaning he now owns a football club he values at £800+ million. Absolutely no way! Unless they win champions league every season they would make a loss. No way anybody would buy such an expensively run club with such a small stadium and flimsy fan base for anything over 400-500 million at most. If anything ever happens to Roman his heirs will tear Chelsea apart and if Roman ever gets bored an leaves them to it they will struggle to cope with their running costs and revenues.
 

lfc.eddie

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He has bought them for £140 million and at first they were in debt to him but then to get round up coming FFP he "wrote off" that £700 million (if your figure is right havent checked it) and made that £700 million part of his ownership of the club meaning he now owns a football club he values at £800+ million. Absolutely no way! Unless they win champions league every season they would make a loss. No way anybody would buy such an expensively run club with such a small stadium and flimsy fan base for anything over 400-500 million at most. If anything ever happens to Roman his heirs will tear Chelsea apart and if Roman ever gets bored an leaves them to it they will struggle to cope with their running costs and revenues.
Now what makes you think Roman is bothered about selling the club?
 

rupzzz

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So I scrolled through these posts then re-read the title and the last few comments are nothing to do with our need for a striker or something else.

Macedonian - the more I read your posts the more I feel like you want our owners to be Arabs or Russians with oil fields at their disposal. You seem to do nothing but criticise FSG as they're not pumping money into the club faster than oild being pumped into containerships to be sold to the Western world. The way you go on and on about it you might be better placed supporting Man City or Chelsea or Anzhi or PSG or one of the many other clubs run by oil rich barons that use their clubs as a play toy.

I actually prefer the approach of building the club back up from the roots. How much more satisfying will it be if in a few years we're league champions having produced a world class squad through buying the right youth players and making them world class rather than heamoraging money on players hoping that we 'buy' the league like Chelsea and Man City have done in recent years.

We are in a phase of short term pain for long term gain. Things take time, and FSG are approaching things cautiously but thats the correct way to do it. They've made mistakes, but that's how you learn. It's got to run through the whole club from the tea lady that drops a tray of tea and scones (disaster) to a youth team player that sleeps in a misses training, to a first team player making a cock up during a big game, to BR making a selction error, right up to the Owners. We stick together and learn from the mistakes and we will carry on improving. Man U do it the right with way a mix of buying youth players and improving them and making 1-2 big signings every year, but that's taken years for them to get to that position. We too will get to that position, but only if we stick with our club through thick and thin and not take every opportunity to slag the owners or manager off.

It's time for us to stop sitting here going "oh the owners have done this, or haven't done that, what if we had Rafa etc etc". We are here and now and we should be supportive.

Anyway, back to the point of this thread...

We need a player that can play striker and winger. Someone to compliment Suarez, Sterling, Suso, Shelvey, Bornini, but ideally someone with experience. I'd really like us to go for Huntelaar as I think he would be a good signing. Yes he isn't great on the wings, but he's clinical and we have plenty of wing options, particualrly if we can get rid of Downing and bring someone else in in Jan.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Now what makes you think Roman is bothered about selling the club?
What makes you think Roman is immortal? Eventually something will happen to him whether its in 5 years in an accident or 40 years as an old man in his sleep. The way things are at Chelsea and City those clubs basically die with their owners.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Now what makes you think Roman is bothered about selling the club?
Exactly ... lol

We have been hearing this "Roman will sell the club once he wins the CL" story for years ... Now that he has finally won the CL, he has signed Hazard, Oscar, Azpilicueta, Moses and Marin on top of it, and he is pursuing the likes of Falcao and Schurrle ...