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Is it a striker we really need, or is it something else...?

Macedonian_Red

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What makes you think Roman is immortal? Eventually something will happen to him whether its in 5 years in an accident or 40 years as an old man in his sleep. The way things are at Chelsea and City those clubs basically die with their owners.
Yes, just like Juventus have died with Gianni Agnelli ...
 

rupzzz

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Wrong ... Abramovich has already written off 700 million of Chelsea's "debt" to him ... The really ambitious owners do this ... Of course, I am not expecting that FSG should invest 700 million of their own money into LFC, but 200 million for the building of the stadium (on top of the naming rights deal) would would be a nice gesture ... Especially since they would still own that stadium ...
A "nice" gesture?? A £200,000,000 gesture? Fuck my life mate you need to have a reality check. Even with naming rights, £200,000,000 is not "gesture" kind of money. The world economy has been on its knees for a long time and a quick google of FSG shows their value at 1.2 billion. They can't just put that kind of investment into the club in one sitting and they've already invested a lot and done a kinder than kind "gesture" by saving the club from administration already
 

Macedonian_Red

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A "nice" gesture?? A £200,000,000 gesture? Fuck my life mate you need to have a reality check. Even with naming rights, £200,000,000 is not "gesture" kind of money. The world economy has been on its knees for a long time and a quick google of FSG shows their value at 1.2 billion. They can't just put that kind of investment into the club in one sitting and they've already invested a lot and done a kinder than kind "gesture" by saving the club from administration already
Yes, why wouldn't they invest their money into something that would bring them a profit in the long term, and help us become competitive in the process ... FSG are worth billions ... Why not invest a couple of hundred millions in a money making machine that a new stadium represents?
 

Mascot88

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Wrong ... Abramovich has already written off 700 million of Chelsea's "debt" to him ... The really ambitious owners do this ... Of course, I am not expecting that FSG should invest 700 million of their own money into LFC, but 200 million for the building of the stadium (on top of the naming rights deal) would would be a nice gesture ... Especially since they would still own that stadium ...
As pointed out above, only four owners in world football do this. And I think it would be heavy price to pay for becoming a rich mans trinket.

And again that 200m is cheap when its somebody else's money.

 

rupzzz

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Yes, why wouldn't they invest their money into something that would bring them a profit in the long term, and help us become competitive in the process ... FSG are worth billions ... Why not invest a couple of hundred millions in a money making machine that a new stadium represents?
They are investing in a new stadium! But building a massive piece of infrastrucutre, or in our case re-developing anfield takes a long time, mostly because of the challenged the planning system sets out - major infrastrucutre projects take upto an average of 7 years from inception to spade hitting the ground. I'm not suggesting the stadium redevelopment will rumble on for that amount of time, but it shows how long it takes.

FSG are defenitly sat with planning advisors and techys working it all out. There will be a full time team working on it 9-5, 5 days a week.
 

Dane

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A "nice" gesture?? A £200,000,000 gesture? Fuck my life mate you need to have a reality check. Even with naming rights, £200,000,000 is not "gesture" kind of money. The world economy has been on its knees for a long time and a quick google of FSG shows their value at 1.2 billion. They can't just put that kind of investment into the club in one sitting and they've already invested a lot and done a kinder than kind "gesture" by saving the club from administration already
You think FSG invested in the club as a "gesture" to save us from administration?

Aside from their initial investment (which was a snip) to effectively buy the club from RBS, they've invested next to fuck all of their own money if you take into account the sponsorship & shirt deals,outgoing transfer fees, and increase in global merchandise sales.

Anyway, back on topic.
Do we need a striker?
Most definitely yes, but I wont be holding my breath for either a top quality striker to want to come here, or our owners to pay the required amount if one does.
 

Macedonian_Red

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They are investing in a new stadium! But building a massive piece of infrastrucutre, or in our case re-developing anfield takes a long time, mostly because of the challenged the planning system sets out - major infrastrucutre projects take upto an average of 7 years from inception to spade hitting the ground. I'm not suggesting the stadium redevelopment will rumble on for that amount of time, but it shows how long it takes.

FSG are defenitly sat with planning advisors and techys working it all out. There will be a full time team working on it 9-5, 5 days a week.
How convenient ... Instead of building a new stadium (we do have two planning permissions, for two different designs), they have decided to enter a long process of rebuilding Anfield, that might or might not be possible ...
 

rupzzz

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You think FSG invested in the club as a "gesture" to save us from administration?

Aside from their initial investment (which was a snip) to effectively buy the club from RBS, they've invested next to fuck all of their own money if you take into account the sponsorship & shirt deals,outgoing transfer fees, and increase in global merchandise sales.

Anyway, back on topic.
Do we need a striker?
Most definitely yes, but I wont be holding my breath for either a top quality striker to want to come here, or our owners to pay the required amount if one does.
Not at all mate, hence the use if " " around gesture. I was making the point that it was never about gestures.

They made a sound business decision and at the same time saved the club from going under or falling into another pair of unsafe hands. But they are a business that run sports teams and like to be successful in sport and in buisiness, and generally they both work together and the more successful your sports team is doing the more successful your business is (unless you're loading it with debt).
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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FSG decided to buy us for £300 million saving us from an uncertain but dangerous future.

For that sum they could of bought a lesser mid table club for around £100-200 million like Roman did with Chelsea and spent the rest of that money on funding them up to or past our current position.

They bought us because they believe the potential is there for us to become one of the very best teams in Europe again under their steady hand.

It hasnt quite been as steady a hand as Id like but I like their intentions and I aint going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

We could easily be in the Championship with Hicks as our owner and under an Company IVA to control our debt whilst FSG owned Everton would be competing for top 4 honours planning the construction of a naming righted stadium in Stanley Park that they bought off Hicks who then kept the money to pay off the debt LFC "owed" to Gillett.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Henry and Werner must have stolen the other £100 million from their partners, since they have paid only £200 million to RBS for the club ...
RBS didnt own LFC just the majority of the debts. Bank of Wachovia was owed significant debt too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8668320.stm

Edit; Truly terrifying reading through that again. We "owed" Hicks and Gillet £144.4 million? Owed the banks £207 million (at the time of that article writing about the financial year previous). Hicks and Gillet were on annual salaries of £158k & £118k for running us into the ground and the club paid out £22.3 million charge on stadium costs we now know never existed. I love FSG!
 

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You're arguing from a false start.

Anything the owners put in - any owners - is going to be put back on the club in the form of debt. One way or another the club pays, and as such I would rather we didn't spend money we don't have coming in.
You have just put up the best argument for fans ownership, mate. Who needs fsg if they aren't goin to put in any of their own money, or if the money they put in ends up as a debt?

Seriously, why have private owners then, and how can it be any long-term positive for the club?

(off-topic, I know, but still deserves a discussion)
 

rupzzz

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You have just put up the best argument for fans ownership, mate. Who needs fsg if they aren't goin to put in any of their own money, or if the money they put in ends up as a debt?

Seriously, why have private owners then, and how can it be any long-term positive for the club?

(off-topic, I know, but still deserves a discussion)
He makes an interesting point, but the owners and the club should surely be viewed as one? If the owners put their money into it it's the clubs money anyway? It only becomes seperate when you do the accounts, and that is where H&G screwed us over as they put the debt up against the club rather than their overall business.

FSG won't be doing that as far as I understand thus it won't become an issue. If they invest money into the club it's money that they want to invest in their overall business and they won't be putting a chit into the safe saying "LFC owes us £30 million" etc....I think...i'm no accounts man.
 

Macedonian_Red

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RBS didnt own LFC just the majority of the debts. Bank of Wachovia was owed significant debt too:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ool/8668320.stm

Edit; Truly terrifying reading through that again. We "owed" Hicks and Gillet £144.4 million? Owed the banks £207 million (at the time of that article writing about the financial year previous). Hicks and Gillet were on annual salaries of £158k & £118k for running us into the ground and the club paid out £22.3 million charge on stadium costs we now know never existed. I love FSG!
Well, if you love LFC being a mid-table club, it is your prerogative ... Just because Gillett and Hicks were criminals, it doesn't means that FSG are the appropriate owners for LFC ... Especially considering that they have been investing less in the club than David Moores ...
 

lfc.eddie

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What makes you think Roman is immortal? Eventually something will happen to him whether its in 5 years in an accident or 40 years as an old man in his sleep. The way things are at Chelsea and City those clubs basically die with their owners.
Clutching on straws, are we? When did immortality has anything to do with buying or selling a business? You have heard of succession planning no?

As for City, you do realise Abu Dhabi United Group is owned by Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, and it is not owned by Sheikh Mansour alone. It is actually a sovereign fund, owned by the country. Unless UAE went bust, Man City will not die.
 

darren kelly

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What makes you think Roman is immortal? Eventually something will happen to him whether its in 5 years in an accident or 40 years as an old man in his sleep. The way things are at Chelsea and City those clubs basically die with their owners.
Exactly and if he has a heir what if he does not want to play around with a Football club like it is a new toy.They could be bankrupt someday.And I hope it is in my life time muhahahahaaa


Clutching on straws, are we? When did immortality has anything to do with buying or selling a business? You have heard of succession planning no?
Chelsea needs Roman to keep putting money in for players as they have no fans ha ha.When he stops unless they get a similar owner who will throw money at the club they will fall.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Chelsea needs Roman to keep putting money in for players as they have no fans ha ha.When he stops unless they get a similar owner who will throw money at the club they will fall.
Unfortunately, Chelsea already have a far bigger regular revenue than LFC ...



And this was before they have won the Champions League ...

Source: http://www.deloitte....-2012-final.pdf
 

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We definitely need a striker as backup to Suarez, but we also need goals from elsewhere as well. Currently, our wide players and midfielders are contributing very little in that regards. OG is our highest goalscorer after Suarez in the league. A top notch attacking midfielder and a striker that can play wide should be priority this coming window.
 

Mascot88

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You have just put up the best argument for fans ownership, mate. Who needs fsg if they aren't goin to put in any of their own money, or if the money they put in ends up as a debt?

Seriously, why have private owners then, and how can it be any long-term positive for the club?

(off-topic, I know, but still deserves a discussion)
I have posted a reply to this in the Owners thread, to help this get back on topic...
 

Macedonian_Red

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Rodgers yesterday:

“We have got a real good group here. I have always thought that if you have three-and-a-half goalscorers in your team, you have got a chance. We have got Luis Suarez. Steven Gerrard will get goals.

“If we can add a couple more that you know are goalscorers, who instinctively get into the box and get goals, with the domination that we are having in games, then we have got a chance in the second half of the season.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/11/30/liverpool-fc-can-gatecrash-top-four-with-some-good-buys-in-january-says-brendan-rodgers-99623-32341113/
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Mac red noticed you avoided this:

But he added: “Balancing the books was a comment for over the period of time. It wasn’t just specifically for January.“Really now it is about building the squad and trying to make it competitive, adding numbers to it. If we are going to lose players, it has to be because there are other players coming in. That is very important for us.”

Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/11/30/liverpool-fc-can-gatecrash-top-four-with-some-good-buys-in-january-says-brendan-rodgers-99623-32341113/#ixzz2Dny2UJ9s

As it flies in the face of most of your arguments over last few weeks.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Mac red noticed you avoided this:

But he added: “Balancing the books was a comment for over the period of time. It wasn’t just specifically for January.“Really now it is about building the squad and trying to make it competitive, adding numbers to it. If we are going to lose players, it has to be because there are other players coming in. That is very important for us.”

Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/11/30/liverpool-fc-can-gatecrash-top-four-with-some-good-buys-in-january-says-brendan-rodgers-99623-32341113/#ixzz2Dny2UJ9s

As it flies in the face of most of your arguments over last few weeks.
So, we are selling/releasing experienced internationals, and we are replacing them with youngsters, cheap gambles and loanees ... And you are gloating over that?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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So, we are selling/releasing experienced internationals, and we are replacing them with youngsters, cheap gambles and loanees ... And you are gloating over that?
Who did we force out? Aquilani? Hopefully Cole? And why not wait to see who we actually sign in January and whether they are good enough before running them down like that. I like Allen, Sahin (although inconsistent) is class, Assaidi seems a real bargain for a good player and got high hopes for Borini.
 

Lucas

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Mac, please tell me you don't class Downing and Cole et al as "experienced internationals". If referring to the window where Bellers, Kuyt etc left, please do read what actually happened instead of making huge assumptions.
 

JackleCube

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Rodgers yesterday:

“We have got a real good group here. I have always thought that if you have three-and-a-half goalscorers in your team, you have got a chance. We have got Luis Suarez. Steven Gerrard will get goals.

“If we can add a couple more that you know are goalscorers, who instinctively get into the box and get goals, with the domination that we are having in games, then we have got a chance in the second half of the season.”

http://www.liverpool...99623-32341113/
Well, seeing as own goals are our second highest goal-scorer, I take it we need two and a half more goal-scorers.
 

Tetteh_Dalglish

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We need Brendan to find someone to do for us what Cantona did for UTD 20 years ago.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/24/eric-cantona-20-years-phone-call

Now I loathed UTD intensely when Cantona turned them into a major force overnight, but I can't think of a single player in the prem who has had the impact that Cantona had. Maybe Henry, but I'm not sure about that. We need a player like Cantona who can score goals as well as bring the best out of the many talented players we have out there, but who are just missing that extra bit of something.
 

JackleCube

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We need Brendan to find someone to do for us what Cantona did for UTD 20 years ago.

http://m.guardian.co...ears-phone-call

Now I loathed UTD intensely when Cantona turned them into a major force overnight, but I can't think of a single player in the prem who has had the impact that Cantona had. Maybe Henry, but I'm not sure about that. We need a player like Cantona who can score goals as well as bring the best out of the many talented players we have out there, but who are just missing that extra bit of something.
Given that you can't think of a single player in the prem who has had the same impact, in a whole 20 year period, what are the chances of us finding the second?

EDIT: It might be what we need, but it's far from what we'll get.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Who did we force out? Aquilani? Hopefully Cole? And why not wait to see who we actually sign in January and whether they are good enough before running them down like that. I like Allen, Sahin (although inconsistent) is class, Assaidi seems a real bargain for a good player and got high hopes for Borini.
Andy Carroll - 35 million, Alberto Aquilani - 17 million, Dirk Kuyt - 10 million, Charlie Adam - 7 million, Maxi Rodriguez - Bosman, Craig Bellamy - Bosman, Jay Spearing - Academy graduate ... Replaced by: Joe Allen - 15 million, Fabio Borini - 10 Million, Oussama Assaidi - 3 million, Nuri Sahin - Loan, Joe Cole - Bosman, Dani Pacheco - Bosman ... I know that FSG would like for the supporters to wait until February 1st, before we put any pressure on you ... And at February 1st, we will again hear the good old: "January market is poor ... Next summer will be big" ... Mate, we have been there already ... You will have to try harder ...
 

ptt

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I think the closest we've had to Cantona in terms of instant impact was Gary Mc. Shame he was in his twilight years but a similar signing would be fabulous. Against FSG's transfer strategy though (such as it is).

Mac Red, IMHO, Kuyt, Maxi and Bellers were all on their respective downward spirals when they left. Getting them and their wages out and promising youngsters in is exactly what we needed, particularly under a new manager who will mold and shape them into his type of players. Now he just needs to do the same with Cole and Downing and he's done an incredible job.