Is it time we won some silverware?

RedForever2014

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Silverware is important if you want to keep your best players and be a club players want to join. Success breeds success, in the current squad and in the next generation.

We're attractive now because it looks like we're going to be successful, that won't last if we don't kick on from here and win things.

The past 12 years have seen the biggest trophy drought since Shankly joined. In the 90s we won a league title, FA Cup and League Cup. In the 00's we won a couple of League Cups, a couple of FA Cups, the CL and UEFA Cup, Community Shields, Super Cups. This decade we've won one League cup.

Last season we struggled to maintain our PL form whilst in the CL latter stages and couldn't mount a domestic cup challenge.

The issues were throughout the side - defence, lack of quality and depth in midfield, a lack of a 10 after Coutinho went and a lack of cover up top.

Arguably the defence is sorted, though another centre back upgrade would be ideal. For me our keeper is not a keeper of a top club.

Midfield is sorted, although attacking midfield needs that Coutinho replacement and we need a genuine 4th forward option.

The reality is that winning the title is difficult, City finished with 33% more points than us and we've not got beyond the mid 70s in the two full seasons under Klopp. If 90+ points is what's now required it's going to be tough whilst also competing in Europe and making a go of the domestic cups.

Our goals should be to be capable of winning the title if the required points total is 80-85 points, to finish top 4 every season for the next 5 years, to go deep into the CL every season and hopefully win it once in the next 5 years. The domestic cups are important, but success in those depends on your squad.

As to the finals we've been in. I think Klopp could have made better use of his subs in the two European finals. He should have used Lucas to solidify midfield against Sevilla when it was going wrong. In Kiev putting an unfit Lallana who already lacks pace in the front three was a mistake. Moreno was the better option, and late on an unfit Can for Milner wasn't the right call. Solanke up top with Bobby, with Mane on the right and Moreno on the left, would have given them something to think about. His substitutions definitely could be better.

But it's Klopp that gets us to those finals in the first place and all you can do is get there and hope to have a good day.
 

Eintrachtfan

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Interesting posts above.
I for one want to see us continue development and playing exciting football.
If that leads to a trophy remains to be seen.
I wouldn’t like a trophy with boring football. Instead I would take runners up and inspiring matches all day long.
I know my opinion is different to others, especially at a club like LFC.
But that’s my understanding of football. I don’t understand how a human can support a club like Manchester United.
They must have had a terrible childhood.
I’m also convinced we will silverware one day.
Let the exiting days roll on.
 

Rambler

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So, what would people take out of the two choices of winning some silverware and finishing 5th or finish in the top 4 but no trophy?
I seem to recall Arsenal getting panned on here for qualifying for the Champions League every year but not getting far. At least they won domestic cups regularly but they were still mocked. And we get all outraged when we get called Loserpool.....:rolleyes:

If we play in the CL for the next 4 years under Klopp but win no domestic silverware then that is abject failure. The reason our previous iconic managers are revered is because they won trophies regularly and sometimes 2 or 3 in a season.

Qualifying for the CL is the absolute minimum required of this club but for me that achievement alone would only constitute a mediocre season.
 
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Dave-D

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Top class players dont join teams just to play champions league football, they join teams to win trophies.
It’s been a long time since Liverpool won a trophy and I believe none of the current squad has won a trophy with Liverpool which is not good and needs to changed.
 

aBitSadAndLonely

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We've won this mickey mouse cup 8 times. More than anybody else.

I really don't understand the thought process behind this line of thinking. Is it less prestigious? Of course. It's still a trophy though and if it were up to me we would be winning as many of them as possible.
If we win the mickey mouse cup, but finish 5th in the league and get knocked out in the CL....are you going to be happy with that? Cause I wouldn't. I'd be disappointed in a season like that. There's so many more important things. The league cup has no relevance or history behind it. It's a money grabbing event that most managers consider a distraction. I would switch all our cup wins for a PL or CL this year.
 

Red Armada

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If we win the mickey mouse cup, but finish 5th in the league and get knocked out in the CL....are you going to be happy with that? Cause I wouldn't. I'd be disappointed in a season like that. There's so many more important things. The league cup has no relevance or history behind it. It's a money grabbing event that most managers consider a distraction. I would switch all our cup wins for a PL or CL this year.
I'd be even less happy if we hadn't won it.

You're correlating league form with a league cup run. In my experience a team that fails in the league doesn't do so because of a run in a meaningless, as you call it, cup, but because it simply isn't good enough to begin with. In such a case winning it would be nothing more than a bonus in a bad season.
 

aBitSadAndLonely

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I'd be even less happy if we hadn't won it.

You're correlating league form with a league cup run. In my experience a team that fails in the league doesn't do so because of a run in a meaningless, as you call it, cup, but because it simply isn't good enough to begin with. In such a case winning it would be nothing more than a bonus in a bad season.
League and cups are separate. So fair enough
 

LFCFFC

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Klopp got us into 2 finals within a year of arriving with a makeshift defense, a journeyman midfield and a quality yet largely inconsistent attack. The man has a motivational power that few in world football possess and his tactical acumen is underrated.

Our performance in the big games is worrying, no doubt, but the breakthrough will come. We're getting into positions to win trophies, but are coming up short for various reasons (namely squad depth and inexperience). Those problems are being dealt with and I've no doubt that success will follow.

This will be a big season, I think.
 

Billy Biskix

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Klopp tries to win everything. That's been clear so far. In his first season we ended up fighting on four fronts and it was chaotic. Games every four days. The league form fell off a cliff. Finished 8th.

Second season we made it to the League Cup semis. It meant we played 9 games in January. Won just one of them (Plymouth away). Whole season was nearly derailed during that period.

End of last season we made it to the CL final. CL qualification, which should have been a formality, suddenly became a struggle. Won only 2 of our last 6 league games.

I can not see a situation where the squad will be deep enough (not next season anyway) to compete on four fronts and it was a struggle at the end of last season to compete on two. I'd like to see JK use the domestic cups to give some of the younger players a chance. He didn't really do that last season, even in the League Cup, and it was an opportunity wasted. Whatever anyone says about players just wanting to win things our performances in the Cup campaigns last season with relatively strong teams out were poor. I think the regular first teamers generally have less motivation going into these sort of games and it shows.
 

Red_Jedi

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Winning a Cup is very important - but for me getting Champions League footy again the following season is probably more important.

Had we won the league cup a couple of years ago, and even the FA cup before that (got to the semi's with Brendan) - I don't think I would look back and feel any differently to now (without winning it). Sadly these cups are not worth what they were before.

Having those magical european nights is what has been missing the most at Anfield over the last 10 years - we've just not had enough of them.

So for me in order:

1. Win PL
2. Win Champions League
3. Top 4 finish
4. FA/LC with Top 4
5. FA/LC without Top 4.

Either way, I love the man we have in charge, and want him in charge the following season no matter what.
 

JustHitMyHead

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Anything but Champions League football would be perceived as a step backwards by the players... and so therefore I would perceive it as one too. We are slowing building this club as "the place to be".

Yes, we need to win something soon, but not at the price of Champions League football. I don't think anyone is joining Liverpool for a great chance at winning the FA Cup.
 

Jimmyscase

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Winning a Cup is very important - but for me getting Champions League footy again the following season is probably more important.

Had we won the league cup a couple of years ago, and even the FA cup before that (got to the semi's with Brendan) - I don't think I would look back and feel any differently to now (without winning it). Sadly these cups are not worth what they were before.

Having those magical european nights is what has been missing the most at Anfield over the last 10 years - we've just not had enough of them.

So for me in order:

1. Win PL
2. Win Champions League
3. Top 4 finish
4. FA/LC with Top 4
5. FA/LC without Top 4.

Either way, I love the man we have in charge, and want him in charge the following season no matter what.
I don't follow your ranking 3. and 4. In both cases you have top 4 but the case where we win something has a lower ranking. Switch 3 & 4 over and it makes more sense.
 

Walshy07

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We need silverware ASAP.
Firmino and Salah have signed long term deals but if they are scoring 25+ goals with no reward at the end of it they’ll be off.
1 league cup in 11 seasons is pathetic.
 

Nikola

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Of course it's time for Liverpool to win something, one League Cup in twelve years is a disastrous record for a club of Liverpool's stature (and, as much as I love Kenny, it could have been worse as it was a lucky win in that final). That said, while I feel the pressure of that barren run as a fan of the club, I'd gladly take this clearly visible, positive evolution of the club over League Cup, FA Cup and maybe even Europa League trophy but without the palpable progress.

I think I've already mentioned that I felt that the club is now in the state where it should have been in the 1990s (on the pitch) and that owners, Klopp and their team worked hard to get it back on track, make it an interesting proposition for players around Europe. This could be "did I really say it" material in a few years but Klopp restored so much confidence to me when it comes to attracting players that I worry solely when Liverpool come up against the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona or PSG for a player's signature.

That might change if this barren run continues, though. I really don't expect Liverpool to win anything this season for a few reasons but I certainly hope that 2019/20 is the season when Liverpool will finally win something, even if it's a League or FA Cup and then build on it. There are still a few issues within the squad that need to be ironed out (goalkeeper role, presence of another commanding centre back, winger and forward for rotation, futures of a few promising youngsters) before Liverpool can truly battle for trophies. After all, Klopp is a purist, he won't just sacrifice a competition but he doesn't have the squad to be playing on all four fronts just yet.
 

Red_Jedi

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I don't follow your ranking 3. and 4. In both cases you have top 4 but the case where we win something has a lower ranking. Switch 3 & 4 over and it makes more sense.
You are correct, thank you for highlighting it.

sadly, I'd rather have Top 4 than LC/FAC - but obviously having both would be better.
 

RedForever2014

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Reading some of these posts I thought I'd stumbled upon a thread from two years ago.

When are we to expect a squad to compete on all fronts? It always seems two years away, or an excuse away.

If we can't do what's needed when we're half way through Klopp's time here, have just finished top four two years running, just got to a CL final and have a world class forward line, it is an utter disgrace.

Especially after spending little net during Klopp's time at a time of record revenues.

We need a better keeper having only spent £5m on keepers in the past 5 years.

We need a quality 10 having banked £150m for the last one.

We need another quality forward having just missed out on the biggest prize of all because we didn't have such a player on the bench.

No more excuses FSG. Sign the players we need.
 

richieh10

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For me now top 4 is a given and that should be a minimum.

No silverware now is a failure from a season considering that Klopp has had time, this is now his squad.

Remember with BR there was uproar after not having won something after 3 seasons.

We are in a much better position now than then but this year we HAVE to kick on and win a trophy. Minimum.
 

richieh10

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For me the LC is a bonus - not to be sniffed at but if we don’t win it nobody will lose any sleep.

We ain’t won a trophy for 6 years and over the last 10 years pretty sure we’ve only won a LC so like I said it’s not to be sniffed at.

The PL and CL are the promised land but I’d take an FA Cup and a day out at Wembley AND finishing 4th (CL = attract/keep top players) over “just” finishing 2-4th any day.
 

Spitfire

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Interesting posts above.
I for one want to see us continue development and playing exciting football.
If that leads to a trophy remains to be seen.
I wouldn’t like a trophy with boring football. Instead I would take runners up and inspiring matches all day long.
I know my opinion is different to others, especially at a club like LFC.
But that’s my understanding of football. I don’t understand how a human can support a club like Manchester United.
They must have had a terrible childhood.
I’m also convinced we will silverware one day.
Let the exiting days roll on.

Haha, I love this and hate this all at the same time!

I understand your want for exciting football, and I;ve really enjoyed what we produced sometimes last year.

But the desire for success for me overides that - i'd take 1-0 wins all season and the premier league title quite happily.

I think you are right in a way though, it seems clear we are going to play football in an expansive and exciting way - and thats how we will win our trophies. I think the key to that however is we do need to win something this season....all the development in the world won't count for much if we can't deliver silverware.
 

geebo

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normally I would say no. Aas other posts say, its the type of footie we play that important, and winning the prem and CL. But also enjoying the path to these things, and with Klopp we are on an upward journey.
However, right now for this team, I think we have been 2nd enough times and it would give the team more confidence if we won something. Just to give them the taste of winning, and I think that would give them so much confidence and belief.
 

Eintrachtfan

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Haha, I love this and hate this all at the same time!

I understand your want for exciting football, and I;ve really enjoyed what we produced sometimes last year.

But the desire for success for me overides that - i'd take 1-0 wins all season and the premier league title quite happily.

I think you are right in a way though, it seems clear we are going to play football in an expansive and exciting way - and thats how we will win our trophies. I think the key to that however is we do need to win something this season....all the development in the world won't count for much if we can't deliver silverware.
Im not far away from you. I would take any dirty 1-0 win than an exciting 1-1 draw all day long.
Of course I want us to win any trophies.
What I mean is if we want to win something we have to improve. That means for me continue with our style of football and getting results. Playing exciting football doesn’t exclude winning silverware.
Though we all know in football is nothing guaranteed.
I’m aware how important trophies are in England, I think it’s more than in the rest of Europe.
 



Spitfire

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Im not far away from you. I would take any dirty 1-0 win than an exciting 1-1 draw all day long.
Of course I want us to win any trophies.
What I mean is if we want to win something we have to improve. That means for me continue with our style of football and getting results. Playing exciting football doesn’t exclude winning silverware.
Though we all know in football is nothing guaranteed.
I’m aware how important trophies are in England, I think it’s more than in the rest of Europe.
Agree completely - we have the potential with improvement of the best of both worlds, some of the most attractive football available plus the step to a trophy. This would be amazing!
 

Ahmed Hussain

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Obviously it is. What's the point of competing if it isn't? The fact that it's been since 2012 without a trophy is annoying.
 

mattyhurst

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Yes, there is an order of preference in that, I would rather win the league than the CL final currently but that's only because I have enjoyed 2005, I haven't ever seen us be League Champions.

Two European seasons, two finals means it will happen sooner rather than later, I'd like us to put in an effort for the FA Cup, I'm not really bothered about the League Cup unless we have the squad to be able to rest and still be in it. Hopefully we will secure top 4 before the final game next season, prefer to be fighting for something much higher on the final day.

As for Pens, they are a lottery to be honest, so are one off finals in my view, Salah doesn't go out of that final, or Liverpool have a replacement of some kind then I don't think we lose.

At least Klopp understands the importance, Rodgers seemed to treat them as a annoyance.
 

Rambler

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I’m aware how important trophies are in England, I think it’s more than in the rest of Europe.
Really? You don't think Real, Barca or Bayern fans would be too bothered if they didn't win any silverware? Would they have been as patient as us if they hadn't won their domestic title for nearly 30 years?
 

richieh10

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For a club like ours we should be winning trophies.

Hate how modern day fans are satisfied with 4th.

Not what the foundations of this club are built on.