Is this our best-ever team?

ScouseLand

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I think you’ll find we already are. What we need to do is maintain that.
Not maintain. We should aim to better that. City believed all the media hype surrounding them that they were a special team last season. And look what happened.... Thats why klopp keeps drilling it to the media and team that we need to improve more. To avoid complacency.
 

koptician

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You do know salah was not part of the team of the year for both uefa and pfa right? He won’t most probably be nominated as well this year as well. He has been out of form by his standard since last season really. Mane even beat him to the african player of the year.
Mate, grasping at straws here. By that notion Bobby would never be picked by anyone for any “team of the year” yet he is possibly the most important player we have for our attack and press to work. Every single squad member and Jurgen absolutely love him. And not just because of that dazzling smile and bubbly personality
 

Limiescouse

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It's absurd, but as I've been saying all season, we're not actually always playing THAT well. Our league record is absolutely freakish. I suppose that's what great champions do, they just keep winning.
I think this of this overplayed. In the past 10 years we have become accustomed to a style of football that relates control of a game with the amount of controlled possession they have. We have become better, out of necessity, at playing this way, but even in those game we force the ball more. We do it because it's our style to try, and we're totally comfortable with the consequences of momentarily giving up the ball. That can create the impression of a side not as in control of things as they really are. But in reality, despite the close score line in many games resulting in lots of chewed finger nails, we really have dominated pretty much every game.
 

Limiescouse

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The balance of this team matches the 1978/79 squad which ended up with our best ever Goal Difference of 69. In a season where we conceded fewer and scored more than the previous seasons by quite a bit. That team ran at 'only' 2.33 pts per game though.
Which means after 25 games: 59 points.
Was Forest under Clough as tough a rival as City under Pep? Similar I'd say. The pitches and training facilities and diet and poor professionalism by modern standards and having no VAR were all levellers. Far more fortune was involved so you could argue we should add more points to that total making a completely invented total of 65. Still 8 short.
Yep, this is the bench mark for me. The 3-4 year period from the sale of Keegan to around 81 when Bob started turning over that team. We might not have dominated the honours to the same degree as we did in the periods before it and after it, but that was because of an absolute ding dong scrap with a Forrest side that themselves were our biggest threat to winning the European cup. If you look for a single landmark season in that period, it was the 78-79 season with then record setting defense.
 

Zoran

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It's simply different (seeing Kuyt mentioned, back to Rafa's era). In terms of style/formation and era when we talk about ownership and money, a lot of our signings being closer to Klopp's priorities or indeed priorities. Back then we really had to be creative how we manage our budget and we often had to sacrifice someone. That increased the percentage of mistakes. Though overall we did really well under the circumstances, keeping the side competitive domestic and in Europe, winning some things and beating a lot of top sides. The staff and a lot of the players were fine, but we always lacked more backing to make that final step in the league.

Kuyt was really important for us in almost every season, but he wouldn't start instead of someone of our current front 3. Likewise, our attack probably wouldn't function like it does if we had Torres now instead of Firmino, with the two around him in a 4-3-3. The opposite as well (perhaps not equally a missfit, Torres was a better player than Kuyt), we'd probably lose some balance if Salah played right side in a 4-2-3-1 under Rafa and still had Torres up top. What we really needed then was maybe 2 more players, a top player starting on the left (even 70% of the player Mane is now or even less than that) and a better backup for Torres or another defence unlocking type of midfielder (a better Benayoun if you like) in rotation.
 

Red over the water

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I think you have to win the league, and preferably dominate for a little while and hopefully win more than the one league title, plus other trophies - the bigger the better. We have had other teams do exactly that.

Obviously we have a fantastic team right now, and it is on the way to the above, but I’m not ready to concede it’s our best ever. Not yet. Not with more achievement to come. And not considering the achievements of other teams we’ve had.

The signs are good, but let’s see more. I suppose that means I’m from the Ronnie Moran school of motivation...

* Here is a box of medals. If you think you’ve earned one you can get one. *

Bah humbug!
 

Craig_Johnston

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Yes, the hyperbole is getting a bit much. It’s titles that talk. We need to win the league, of course, and probably a couple of times. This is an extraordinary team and they have already broken numerous records, but it’s the trophy cabinet which will impress future generations. The league this year has been unusually weak, all our main rivals are in transition or a slump. Man City are past their peak.
This team is fantastic, and will only get better. Whichever way you look at it, it’s a great time to be a Liverpool fan.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Yes, the hyperbole is getting a bit much. It’s titles that talk. We need to win the league, of course, and probably a couple of times. This is an extraordinary team and they have already broken numerous records, but it’s the trophy cabinet which will impress future generations. The league this year has been unusually weak, all our main rivals are in transition or a slump. Man City are past their peak.
This team is fantastic, and will only get better. Whichever way you look at it, it’s a great time to be a Liverpool fan.
Actually the league is about where it usually is only we are doing significantly better than the usual form of the team in 1st.

 

Craig_Johnston

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That’s great, but you’d have to admit that Man U, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea are all below the levels you’d normally expect, and are all teams we’d usually drop points against. I’m not saying we’re not special, of course, we have the best record of any team in the history of Europe’s top five leagues. Better than Real or Barcelona in their pomp, better than Juventus or AC Milan with their star studded teams, better than Bayern or PSG in their one horse race leagues. That is extraordinary, but those teams are underperforming and Man City are not the team of two years ago. Both our brilliance and their crapness can coexist. It’s not either... or...
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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That’s great, but you’d have to admit that Man U, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea are all below the levels you’d normally expect, and are all teams we’d usually drop points against. I’m not saying we’re not special, of course, we have the best record of any team in the history of Europe’s top five leagues. Better than Real or Barcelona in their pomp, better than Juventus or AC Milan with their star studded teams, better than Bayern or PSG in their one horse race leagues. That is extraordinary, but those teams are underperforming and Man City are not the team of two years ago. Both our brilliance and their crapness can coexist. It’s not either... or...
I just don't see how those teams have to be good for the league to be considered good. City have dropped off from how good they can be but are still about par for whichever other team is usually in second (except for us last season). Why does it have to be United, Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs as the third best team? Leicester is doing just as well and are just as formidable as those teams usually are. Same with Wolves and Sheff Utd. It seems like the cries of "the league is shit" really just translate to "the teams I expect to do well are doing shit" which really isn't the same thing. As pointed out in the article English teams dominated European competition last year and may again this year. So is the whole sport now weak?
 

Craig_Johnston

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Who said that ‘the whole sport’ is weak? I just said that our usual rivals have been below par, that’s all.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Who said that ‘the whole sport’ is weak? I just said that our usual rivals have been below par, that’s all.
But if our league is weak, but that league is dominating Europe, the top continent for the sport? See what I'm saying? The "the league is weak" call is just a shout to diminish what we are achieving. It's based on anecdotal evidence that some of the top teams have usually done better but the evidence of how teams in positions (not the clubs themselves) are doing or even how some of those clubs have done in some seasons (only looking at those teams best seasons). It also ignores how those teams are performing against their contemporaries from other leagues. Nobody said this stuff during Citys centurion season.
 

Red over the water

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The ONLY time I thought the league was weak was when Leicester won it. They were magnificent and it was a lovely story of an upper-mid team playing their hearts out... with all the stars aligning.

By that I mean all the usual suspects who should/could/would normally contest the title were in a period of transition or very poor form. So Leicester benefitted, but their achievement shouldn't be diminished by that, as they played their hearts out and it was a fantastic story.

On our end, we are matching (or bettering, so far) the scintillating league winning form that Man City have established the past two seasons. We were a gnats knickers away from them last season, and we have redoubled our effort while they have slipped back a little.

Overall the league is stronger, if anything, because instead of it just being the usual suspects: Liverpool/Man City/Chelsea/Man Utd/Spurs/Arsenal and the "normal" top six being preserved, it is all getting jumbled up. For a start, Leicester and Wolves are in the mix, and there are one or two other teams doing well too.

My take is the overall league is stronger than it has ever been, but Man City, and now Liverpool, are hitting heights we've not seen before.
 

Rambler

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I remember Steve Nicol making some good attacking runs, maybe not as much as they current crop but he did get forward when needed.
@Mascot88 Chris Lawler sends his regards.......;)

Liverpool F.C (1960–1975) – 549 appearances, 61 goals
From full back.

One of my favourite players of all time

 
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Limiescouse

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I remember Steve Nicol making some good attacking runs, maybe not as much as they current crop but he did get forward when needed.
For as long as Ive lived we have spoken about "FBs these days have to be able to attack as much as they defend" yet always treat attacking FBs as if they are some new thing. We should know that as much as anyone seeing as if you go back 40 years our first 4 4 European cup wins were won by scoring a total of 6 goals, 3 of which were scored by FBs. In fact to this day, Phil Neal is still our club record scorer in European Cup/CL finals.
 

koptician

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It's absurd, but as I've been saying all season, we're not actually always playing THAT well. Our league record is absolutely freakish. I suppose that's what great champions do, they just keep winning.

Frode Kippe, a Lillestrøm legend that played for Liverpool in the 90s for a spell, told me once what it felt like to play against Rosenborg, the most-winning Norwegian club, when they were in their pomp in the late 90s. His take sums up Liverpool of today, really. He told me "the games we had against them were strange, we usually came off the pitch wondering how we'd lost. The matches were usually tight, often we felt we had the edge, but then they just scored a goal. Then the match continued in the same way, and then they scored yet again. It was maddening."
Agreed but I would add that as impossible as this record run feels, it's even more impossible to "play well" all the time. Jurgen and co have created the perfect way to control a game and win while at the same time preserve the team's fitness in the long run. This is what Rafa used to strive for when he always mentioned controlling a game. We have the right tools to do it now.
 

Obanite

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Relative to the period in which the club is playing in (I think that has to be a factor for these questions to be fair), yes, I would say so. The only team I'd compare it to is the 87/88 team of Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton, McMahon and Whelan (comparable to the interplay of Salah, Mane, Firmino, Trent, Robbo and Gini). They had that same blend of attacking flair and relentless consistency in defence. And they went the season unbeaten at home, which the current team is almost certain to do.

That said, if we do go unbeaten (especially after only one league defeat last year) maybe the current side's claim will be indisputable.
 

Perth Red

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For as long as Ive lived we have spoken about "FBs these days have to be able to attack as much as they defend" yet always treat attacking FBs as if they are some new thing. We should know that as much as anyone seeing as if you go back 40 years our first 4 4 European cup wins were won by scoring a total of 6 goals, 3 of which were scored by FBs. In fact to this day, Phil Neal is still our club record scorer in European Cup/CL finals.
Alan Kennedy says hi too!
 

RedLar

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Been a supporter since the mid to late 60's. Clearly, many fans of this generation have nothing to compare the current side to. Never even seen us win the league if you started in the 90s. Thats a nightmare in my book.

Best ever what? Best ever side over a single season? Sure. We haven't lost a game. Best over a decade? Over 20 years? Well, jury will remain out on that for 10 or 20 years. Has to really.

We stick together 3-4 League titles and another Champions League win, then we can talk among the great sides of the 70s and 80s. I think this is the best way to look at comparing teams from any era.

Going to be tough to amass the success of the side I witnessed between 1970 and 1990. Today we win games for laughs. Back then, we won cups for laughs, and expected the league title. Count the trophies lads. Count the trophies.
 

RedLar

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Between 1970 and 1990 we won the league 11 times and came runner up 7. That, was a great series of teams, and potentially the greatest ever, in light of also amassing (a restricted) 4 European Cup titles, one or two UEFA cup titles, couple of FA Cups and a record number of League Cups.

Take a look at the medal collections of Phil Neal and King Kenny? How can we talk of best teams ever with this sort of pedigree around?
 
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