Jürgen Klopp: 2016-17

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by El Dorado, Jul 28, 2016.

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  1. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Yes, I have just seen it. I just feel there's too much bullshit to make head or tail of anything at the moment.

    Klopp hates these mid day kickoffs above all those away and is often grumpy before and after them. So I don't read much into his presser after Watford where I expect he was really pissed by the performance.
     
  2. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I dont buy this new rumour. Klopp's comments are a bit cryptic, but if you read them further he does confirm that FSG's stance is not to sell Phil and the request changed nothing. That does indicate that if there is a divide in the ranks it is either within FSG's power brokers with the selling faction losing, or between FSG and Klopp with Klopp himself wanting to sell.
     
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  3. ubermick

    ubermick Willing to drive Nikola to the airport. Admin

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    Yes, I'd put massive faith in a rando twitter bloke nobody's heard of before (who then claims in other tweets that he's in contact with other journalists). Certainly though, not all is harmonious behind the scenes, and after this fucking binbag of a transfer window, I can see why.

    In terms of Klopp - those wanting him out after one match are deluded. But those thinking he's infallible, and that his hands are tied when it comes to our problems are equally deluded. Zonal marking has it's issues, but works when those executing the plan do so properly. When the personnel aren't carrying out that plan properly, then rightly so he deserves questioning on it. Either those upstairs need to bring in the fucking defenders we need, or Klopp needs to fix this on the training ground. One or the other. And needs to be done sharpish, because I'm fucking sick of seeing it, and opposing teams don't exactly need a doctorate in footballing hipsterism to be able to figure out how to roll us over.
     
  4. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I think he has a small point in what he said after the match, in that we nearly scored 2 from our own corners, and they needed slices of luck to score from theirs. His take was on another day we score ours and they dont theirs, and if that happens then no one is talking about Watford being bad at corners. He is right, but that isnt a defense. It's called Bayes Theorem. When you go into the game with the reputation (and rightly so) of being crap at defending set pieces then you dont get the benefit of the doubt when a bit of luck goes against you in defending them. Address the reputation by being better at it consistently, and in time those games in which the luck goes against you will be put down to luck. But that will require a consistent run of conceding fewer. And, as someone else pointed out, it's incredible how we seem to create our own bad luck in these situations so frequently. Funny how that happens.
     
  5. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Hah yeh, not buying it totally, but something ain't right, but whilst I'm frustrated at Klopps shortcomings (he has his flaws) he is the right guy for us.

    What I dont get is, Hendo said they have trained all summer on set pieces, yet that cluster fuck happens. It's clearly concentration issues, yet Klopp doesn't drop the culprits, such a weird circumstance, its like we are buying into this notion we cannot defend set pieces and its becoming a self fulfil prophecy.
     
  6. mattyhurst

    mattyhurst TIA Regular

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    Yeah something isn't right, one of our best players handed a transfer request in on the eve of our season.

    I feel it's all over the club the likelihood is that Coutinho is fit for Saturday at the latest so what happens now?

    Not sure if I trust the lad anymore but we need to move on quickly if he does. We have a season defining game on Tuesday the truth of the matter is we were dreadful today and still should have won.
     
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  7. Kieranauts

    Kieranauts Member

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    Why are they still here?
    1. Mignolet. One of the worst goalkeeper of the Premier League, if not the worst. I even see Burnley's keeper handling and saving certain goals, yet this idiot parries ball into opposing strikers path. Twice. Cannot control his area, cannot command, cannot catch crosses. The player that most fans want replacing most.
    2. Lovren. We are paying a lot for Brendan Rodger's mistakes. But if Lovren is our starter, we are already out of Top 4. A definitive midtable defender that looks good in a defensive set up.
    3. Moreno. We already have a new starter on right back, maybe Milner there to offer continuity is a good thing? Didn't do much wrong, but Milner would've offered a stronger base.

    So... 5 seasons later. Keeper, defence. But it's too difficult for Liverpool.
     
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  8. Riddles

    Riddles New Member

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    The bottom line is when we score and come under a modicum of pressure the midfield turn completely porous. I'm not going to name certain mangers but we all know a few that would shape up that defence in a week.

    I feel much like the Liverpool job came 5/6 years to early for Brendan, it has come 5/6 years too late for Klopp. If he can't get the basics right after 100 games and persevere with a shocker in goals it's an uphill trek.
     
  9. Sound as a Pound

    Sound as a Pound TIA Midfield General

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    You're right, we definitely need to replace those 3, clearly not good enough for us. They may go on to better things elsewhere but they just can't cut it consistently here.
     
  10. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Valued Member

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  11. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Valued Member

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    I see the same stuff happen time after time, put a player in front of Mignolet and the wuss is out of commission, Stick a MAN between the goalposts.
     
  12. Halftime Ice

    Halftime Ice Well-Known Member

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    I'm not migs biggest fan,but to suggest he's probably the worst keeper in the league is just plain wrong. He improved massively over the second half of the season,in fact doing all the things you just mentioned very well. Seeing him play the way he did especially the final third of the season,you could make a reasonable argument that without him in that form,we wouldn't be in the top four. Lovren,I just can't defend(like him actuallylol)
    As for Moreno,I think he had a great pre-season and didn't perform badly yesterday. Just maybe and it's a big maybe,he may have turned a corner. Cue major cock up next game.
     
  13. Sweeting

    Sweeting Doesn't think Mignolet is that bad

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    Biggest issue about yesterday was Klopp's inability to positively influence the game with his tactical and personel changes.

    Admittedly there was not a huge amount of options available to him but he started making changes when we were on top in the game and pushing for a 4th. The response, to take off Salah and Firmino, lost all out attacking outlet and we didn't seem to know what formation we were playing.

    Poor in-game management yet again.
     
  14. Halftime Ice

    Halftime Ice Well-Known Member

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    I love Klopp, but never understood his substitutions and the timing of them. Playing the game out with players still on the park that are capable of keeping the ball,I thought would be imperative in a tight game. The offside decision was bad,but we had Ninety minutes to beat this lot,and should have. I hope we are not going to have another season where we don't turn up when facing the more unfancied teams. If we do we are fucked, keeping in mind that they are all stronger this season.
     
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  15. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    The only thing we needed tactically and personel wise is some fucking balls. Klopp is guilty for that bringing in Matip and Wijnaldum just meant we have fewer and fewer balls (This is one of the areas where he is similar to BR (not the only one mind)). It now appears our only players with bals are either leaving or can not even make the bench (Can, Flannagan ....)
     
  16. Craigy_Boy_92

    Craigy_Boy_92 Member

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    Couldn't agree more. We should of went for the kill. To be fair the game should off been dead at that point.
     
  17. Samwise the Brave

    Samwise the Brave Well-Known Member

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    I think people need a little perspective here.

    Yes, we drew. Yes it hurt a LOT. Especially given our obvious shortcomings, there are few fans out there who aren't upset and/or livid (to varying degrees) about what went on in that match.

    However...we still on another day would be up 4 5 or 6 to 2. Wijnaldum missed a sitter. Salah had 2 good chances before the break (horrible touch) and a one on one that he just needed to keep down. Our attack looked fantastic and AT TIMES our midfield helped it look that way.

    I'm not denying that our defense needs work but let's not forget at the end of the day we drew (not lost) to a physical team, away from home, only because of a clearly offside goal. We will not be the only ones to fail to win away to Watford nor to any other non-top 6 PL sides.

    We are all frustrated because it doesnt seem some lessons are being learnt but it was after all the first day of the season. Some people need to calm down a bit and remember that Klopp, while very imperfect, does kind of know what he's doing.
     
  18. Stepmaster

    Stepmaster New Member

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    Absolutely right plus I'm also not 100% sure about Matip neither, he seems to have Agger's bad trait of being a terrible ball watcher. Yes he looks cool bringing the ball out from the back but he's also too easily bullied. Having said that I believe he'd soon improve with VVD alongside him.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017
  19. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Perspective?
    My perspective is that our defense midfield and attack were fucking crap in the 1st half.
    Repeating our biggest errors from the last 10 years. That equals no progress which is the only real perspective one can have after that.
    I did predict a 1-1 draw before the match. 3-3 is just ridiculous.
     
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  20. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Valued Member

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    When you score 3 goals in an away match against a team like Watford there is something seriously wrong with your defence if you don't win that game. Klopp had a few windows and numerous training session to fix the problem still has not done that.

    I love our gaffer but winning football starts from the back, not from the front.
     
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  21. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

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    As the wise Sam said, you need to calm down a bit. It's not the first nor the last time in this club's history that we draw a game away from home, not even a 3-3... ;-)

    You're right though that the whole team was crap during the first half. If there is one lesson to be learnt from that match, it's that you don't give away the full half of a match, that is inviting some form of punishment. I hope that the players retain that lesson for the next crucial games.
     
  22. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Drop who? Wijnaldum? Matip? These are the two culprits that cost us them points yesterday. Henderson lost the pass that saw them counter against us and got their first goal through a corner after Lovren made a last ditch tackle through the run of play. So drop Henderson too? Who would you like him to drop come next match?
     
  23. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    I'm completely fucking calm. I have seen this type of performance so many times now. I don't expect our squad to learn squat. Now run along. :wave:
     
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  24. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

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    He's refreshingly honest, and that's why I applaud him.

    I'd rather him fucking it up, and being honest about it, than hear false platitudes about 'character' or blaming the ref.

    He could easily....EASILY....concentrate on the FACT that the guy who bundled it in the net was more offside than Harry McOffside on a bad day.

    Furthermore...why the fuck aren't our players surrounding the ref to explain the offside rule to him.



    That said...what the fuck Jurgen, sort it out!
     
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  25. Danny Sarge

    Danny Sarge New Member

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    The question is why has it taken so long for us to act. Klopp surely knows the frailties of his team... or does he?

    Watching Lukaku today made me feel extremely nauseous, just the fact that knowing Utd have a proven goalscoring number 9 on there books doesn't sit well and it confirms the mentality of the teams around us.
    As much as Mourinho was a No Go, at least hes someone who understands the importance of strengthening his teams year after year, hence being extremely active in the transfer market. Klopps failed to address numerous areas of the squad.

    Why did we not sign a proven number 9?
    Why did we not go for a top class first choice fullback instead of one he considers a back up?
    Why no bids for VVD?
    Why do we still not have a dominant CM?

    Certainly getting rid of Klopp would be utterly ridiculous but he needs to open his eyes because time is ticking and already you have supporters questioning his mindset and ability to manage.
     
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  26. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

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    Be sure that Klopp will walk before he gets the boot. That will happen sharpish as soon as he feels that he hasn't solid support anymore. From the owners - or from the fans. I sincerely hope that we never come to this point.
     
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  27. treboeth

    treboeth Well-Known Member

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    If Klopp walks anytime soon are are going to be in real trouble and will likely be looking at new owners shortly after.
    Something that any true fan will not want.
     
  28. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    We have a proven 9, Sturridge, the problem is he's always injured.

    I reckon Klopp likes and rates Moreno. So do I btw.

    I haven't the foggiest. I don't think anyone has a clue what's going on there anymore. I would suggest we are getting cold feet over the whole business.

    I think we have at times for certain matches. It's just that all 3 have to step up together and make the right decisions. Against Watford I think we were tactically very poor. We didn't get anyone between their lines, our fullbacks and attackers weren't helping and we didn't have a striker. I am not trying to take the blame off our midfield they were poor and not up to the physical challenge in the first half. However when they do step up they need more and better movement from others (which was seen in the second half). Btw I still don't like Matips runs forward asking Henderson to stay back. Henderson would be much more effective doing that. (Matip was particularly poor in every domain against Watford hope he gets his act together soon).
     
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  29. jaffod

    jaffod Well-Known Member

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    My take is we barely ever score from corners whilst conceding a shitload from them. 'On another day' my arse.
     
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  30. Samwise the Brave

    Samwise the Brave Well-Known Member

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    Our attack wasn't the problem. FFS, how many goals do you expect in a match? 3 should have been enough.

    We still could have scored more. Again it's not the "lack of Lukaku" that is hurting us - in fact he's awful in areas we need our strikers to shine so I'm glad we don't have him.

    Our defense and midfield are what's hurting us. But again, we are neither the only club that will draw 3-3 this season nor is this a rare event. Hell, the runaway champions last season lost and looked awful - correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that was at home too.

    I'm not saying it was ok to draw because it wasn't but it's the first game of the season. Seriously if you have no hope that we will improve then what's the point of watching us at all?
     
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