Jürgen Klopp: 2017 - 2018

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by Hope in your heart, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    people could say benitez was ruthless with sissoko or they could say sissoko actually said he was not up to the job and the manager then replaced him . to balance that out one could say he brought in david ngog as backup to torres (not exactly the smartest move .. and the signing of ryan babel and falling out with albert riera ) no manager is perfect and no approach to management guarantees success.
    what good would it do to publicly humiliate matip and lovren ? we have very few central defenders so crushing htem would be stupid .

    it's also becoming more fashionable to rotate goalkeepers .. i remember the scum doing it many moons ago when trying to find a replacement for schmeichel .
     
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  2. James H

    James H "One word: Thundercougarfalconbird"

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    Also on a point of pedantry, we didn't win anything after replacing sissoko with mascherano, so not the greatest measure of ruthlessness bringing success.
     
  3. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    you're correct. i mean rafas biggest success came with the bulk of houlliers squad (not downplaying rafa) and that shows loyalty can be shown to work.
     
  4. James H

    James H "One word: Thundercougarfalconbird"

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    True, if I'm honest this piece strikes me as reactionary, if we beat united and go on a run klopp's methods will be "proven" again I bet.
     
  5. Billy Biskix

    Billy Biskix TIA Youth Team Valued Member

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    I fully expected Klopp to rip the squad up after the Europa League final debacle. That really should have been a watershed moment. I just imagined that he'd see what most of us had seen happening under BR. A vanila squad, full of nice boys you'd want your daughter to marry but who you wouldn't want standing next to you in a trench. Totally lacking in balls, leadership, mental toughness. Forever choking when some tangible achievement was dangled in front of them. Changing the mindset was one thing I expected him to prioritise more than anything.

    I don't think it's all hugs and pats on the head behind the scenes. Someone that emotional must be capable of handing out some major bollockings but it's the faith in players who have let him down time and time again that I have difficulty getting my head round. His focus on coaching and developing is very laudable and you can improve players technically of course but instilling a winning mentality is a different thing entirely. For all the general improvement in the overall quality of the squad there are still too many weak characters in it.
     
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  6. Red Armada

    Red Armada TIA Regular

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    No one is advocating public dressing-downs, that would be indeed stupid and unproductive. At the same time though Klopp is giving the impression that he'll come up with an excuse even when none is acceptable or extenuating. Perhaps he's giving them an earful behind closed doors. I certainly hope that's the case. Rafa as you said saw that Sissoko wasn't the same player anymore and acted on it. He did the same thing with Xabi Alonso, who had been struggling for form prior to his excellent last season with us. It backfired badly but it also showed that there was a standard to be maintained and that no one was allowed to slip for too long.

    During Klopp's time, we've seen the exact opposite. Not only players are allowed to get away with horrendous mistakes, they often repeat them. That to me suggests a lack of accountability. Klopp is supposed to have a ruthless side to his character, but so far he's only demonstrated it with Sakho and that had little to do with actual footballing reasons. Seems to me that as long as his players behave themselves, Klopp is perfectly willing to keep giving them chance after chance with their footballing ability coming into the equation only as a secondary and less significant parameter.

    Mate, we didn't win anything after the two bastards took over, replacing Sissoko with Mascherano had very little to do with it. The point is that Benitez was passionless and utterly ruthless when it came to maximizing the team's chances for success. Klopp on the other hand, seems to be the exact opposite. Too emotional and too lenient with his players for my liking.

    That's one of my biggest concerns as well even though I actually think that in some respects we have improved mentally. It's clear though that we are still far as a team from where we need to be. Like the article said, we are soft and forgiving and that's directly attributable to the manager.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  7. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    wasn't you that wrote the article .. but the writer did question why there was no public dressing down and instead klopp protected his players.
    Sissoko actually told the world he wasn't the same player before he was replaced .. wasn't benitez noticing it to be fair .i think the problems with alonso had more to do with his niggling injuries and him needing time to recover from them .. the communication with beinitez and alonso may not have been the best and that led to problems (just guessing) didn't help with all the media talk of him being offered to juventus .

    only time will tell if klopp will replace some of the under performing players but in no way would it be productive do it right now ..some of the errors have been compounded by piss poor luck . for instance lovren missing the clearance .. he did everything right im my opinion but when fate wants to kick you in the bollocks it will! matip getting back to joselu ..joselu looks like hes fucked it up.. yet fate decrees the ball goes in.

    sometimes as a supporter we can blame the players for causing their own problems ..but when they then try and correct them and things still go wrong .. it's hard to blame them for having bad luck lol

    it's like hitting the crossbar or post .. or when a player heads the ball .. it's going in the top corner..the keeper saves it .. we say "oh ffs should have headed that downwards" when we perhaps should say .. "fuck , that was unlucky!"

    bollock them for sleeping on the half way line :well done: agree with that but sometimes this season there have been incidents were he would have to bollock about 7 or 8 players for each goal conceded lol might cause dressing room unrest as everyone starts blaming each other .
     
  8. James H

    James H "One word: Thundercougarfalconbird"

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    H&G did not come in and destroy the team, that year we bought mascherano we still had Gerrard, Alonso, sissoko, and added Torres later, benitez still had a very good team, one that took him to second in 2009, but still didn't win anything. I don't overly disagree with the sentiment of the article but a point was shoe horned in that actually comes closer to disproving the article than vindicating it. And I would further argue that as sissoko stayed beyond mascherano arriving that mascherano was more of a direct replacement for Hamann as a body in the squad. Mascherano took over in the number one spot and sissoko got demoted to hamann's rotation role. It was a good signing but does not prove the articles theory, in my opinion of course.
     
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  9. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    It's also becoming more fashionable to listen to rap "music".

    I'm not doing it.
     
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  10. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    You're only about 20 years behind on this take, but I agree with the sentiment about goalkeeper rotation. Particularly when the second option is as weak as Karius. Klopp should just have the balls to drop Mignolet since he clearly prefers Karius for the long-term. Klopp is far too nice and It's why guys like Flanagan are still getting time with us. He needs to learn how to make unpopular decisions and stick with them. In general, he's a very passive manager when it comes to making big decisions. It's clear his approach just isn't working this season but he hasn't at any point looked like overhauling or making meaningful tweaks. I think we're teetering on the edge of oblivion for this season in terms of our objectives but we'll still put out the same players in the same formation this weekend and get an expected result.
     
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  11. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    Damn! I was aiming for fifty.
     
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  12. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's because we can't find buyers? Or the players don't want to leave? And I don't think that Sakho would call Klopp "far too nice"; if anything, our manager is far too stubborn.

    I agree with the rest of your post, though- Klopp should start his chosen XI and go from there.
     
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  13. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Blunt

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    Nice is a shit choice of word,he believes in his players and wouldn't shy away from picking his preferred XI so slightly confused as to why he wouldn't,if anything he has too much faith in things panning out for certain players and that we're a bit unlucky with mistakes costing us greatly,but saying that i think the realisation of certain players has come a bit too late to do anything about now,January is critical for this season and i think it's settled in and why he looks a bit more agitated during the last few games,loyalty is my word for it but some players seem to have got drastically worse than last season which doesn't make him look great but some players drop off can't have been predicted.
     
  14. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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  15. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Blunt

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    Is that for me is it.
     
  16. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    lol long fucking sentencelol:well done:
     
  17. Alright Now

    Alright Now Well-Known Member

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    It is for him it is
     
  18. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    i have tried to read it 5 times and still aint got to the end!lol
     
  19. Alright Now

    Alright Now Well-Known Member

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    Your book?
     
  20. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    my book is self narrating :Jlol
     
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  21. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    It seems to depend on the player. He coddles certain players, plays the hard man with others. Doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. As for Flanagan, not being able to find buyers would have been a decent excuse 2 years ago. By now we should have either found a buyer for him or released him. Holding onto a 4th choice right back who can't play at a Premier League level is just a failure of squad management. That may not entirely be his fault but it's an example of the strange squad choices he's been making.
     
  22. Livvy

    Livvy Well-Known Member

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    Imo Flanno is still around only because of Clyne`s injury. Oh and that "homegrown thing". One injury and/or a suspension in a busy period and we`re might be in trouble without him. And after all that moaning about the "Sakho drama" i really don´t think that Klopp needs to learn how to make unpopular decisions and stick with them. :eh?:
     
  23. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    I don't think squad depth has anything to do with it. When he's played for us this season it has been clear that he will be lucky to find a home in the Championship. Klopp must see that every day in training. I think he'd trust several midfield players at RB ahead of Flanno. He's the new Jay Spearing: a local lad we've taken 2 years too long getting rid of.

    As for Sakho, It's an interesting example because it was a big decision that hurt the squad and that was completely unnecessary. Kind of like this GK rotation nonsense. Completely unnecessary and like when we held onto Sakho for too long and then didn't replace him, an own goal the fallout from which he exacerbates by not making a decision in a timely manner. Just name Karius your Number 1 in August 2016. Just sell Sakho in the same window. Why is he paralyzed by decisions? Every match he makes questionable subs that are routinely too late. It's a running theme with him. Paralysis when action is needed most.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  24. Livvy

    Livvy Well-Known Member

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    ´So in fact you want him to make "unpopular decisions" only to criticize him afterwords? You can´t have it both ways :J
     
  25. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    I want him to have the confidence to make decisions when they need to be made. Sakho was just a bad decision made worse by a delay. Had he sold Sakho within 12 months of bombing him out of the squad and/or replaced him, then it wouldn't have been an issue. His indecision and failure to address an issue he alone created is the problem, not the decision itself. It was an unnecessary decision but if he was going to make it he should have done it decisively. He dithered and got rid of him without replacing him. So what I'm criticizing is his failure to act with any kind of conviction once he's made a choice. It's hard to back a manager's decisions when he doesn't seem to back them himself with any kind of certainty.

    After all, he clearly wants Karius as his number one, but now 14 months after he intended to install him as his number one he remains a distant second choice but Klopp is still playing him somewhat randomly without good results. He needs to make decisions and back them, not waffle about for years until whatever decision he made to begin with looks like a bad one because he never assertively implemented what he's chosen to do. You can twist it however you want but the man is deeply indecisive.
     
  26. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Blunt

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    Mignolet is the strongest GK and Karius is not,Klopp must have more confidence in that.
     
  27. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    But he obviously plans to replace Karius with Mignolet and will if he's here long enough. Why not rip off the band-aid and have some self-belief. What is he waiting for? Mignolet isn't so far ahead of Karius that removing him would dent our slim chances of winning a trophy or finishing 4th.
     
  28. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Blunt

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    He obviously planned to make him number one but it's not really worked has it,he is not better than Mignolet which kind of says everything.
     
  29. Livvy

    Livvy Well-Known Member

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    First of all, i do not think Klopp created the "Sakho situation" on his own and replacing a player, who hasn´t been in the squad or in Klopp´s plan anyway is for me "kind of" wishful thinking but was it an unpopular decision? Yes

    Klopp isn´t playing Karius "somewhat randomly", he made it very clear imo that he wants him to play in our CL games, unpopular decision again, but he seems to be convinced about that. Maybe some patience is needed to see what will happen?´

    Anyway, i´ve no problem with criticizing at all but imo there is no sense in demanding unpopular decisions only to criticize everything because we don´t like them, don´t understand the reasons and/or don`t know what´s going on behind the scenes. He maybe should have chosen some other "unpopular decisions" so far as i understand? :eh?:
     
  30. Tole

    Tole Banned Users

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    Hmm, I think that's still his plan otherwise he wouldn't randomly shoehorn him into games in which you'd expect your number one to start. He isn't better than Mignolet but he at one point did believe or even currently believes he will become the better player. The fact that he identified him as his number one at least 18 months ago and he remains his number 2 but occasionally starts matches suited to a No. 1 says even more.
     
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