Jürgen Klopp: 2018 - 2019

Mascot88

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It's great that the defence allows us to take our time, as we've no longer a need to score three or four to win, but we need to develop a tactic to get the first goal and force teams to come out.
The thing is though, if we get the first goal, or even the first two, that’s no guarantee of a team deciding to have a go.

It used to be the case that if you got a goal the other team would open up, but that’s not happening anymore. This is the first time I can remember a premier league where so many teams are perfectly happy to get out with a 2-0 defeat.
 

ILLOK

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The thing is though, if we get the first goal, or even the first two, that’s no guarantee of a team deciding to have a go.

It used to be the case that if you got a goal the other team would open up, but that’s not happening anymore. This is the first time I can remember a premier league where so many teams are perfectly happy to get out with a 2-0 defeat.
It's not necessary anyway, we've only dropped points in 1 game this season (Arsenal) in which we've taken the lead. I'm fairly sure in recent years we were right at the top in the 'points dropped from a winning position' charts.
 

Limiescouse

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The thing is though, if we get the first goal, or even the first two, that’s no guarantee of a team deciding to have a go.

It used to be the case that if you got a goal the other team would open up, but that’s not happening anymore. This is the first time I can remember a premier league where so many teams are perfectly happy to get out with a 2-0 defeat.
I think it happened to Fergie's Utd quite a lot, especially at OT, and based on their experience it is no bad ting if that is how teams choose to approach playing us. I think one the best things they had going for them was the number of games that were contests for only 60 minutes. The difference over the course of a season of being able to ride out a every third game for 30 minutes without having to actually do anything is a big one.
 

Claymenza

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I'm a bit perplexed by what's happened with the trent, gomez and clyne situation. If trent needed a rest, surely clyne is more than an able deputee.

Yet gomez being a centre back was seen as an adequate substitute? Why is it that robertson didn't need a rest?
 

schmee

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I'm a bit perplexed by what's happened with the trent, gomez and clyne situation. If trent needed a rest, surely clyne is more than an able deputee.

Yet gomez being a centre back was seen as an adequate substitute? Why is it that robertson didn't need a rest?
Wasn't Clyne injured for the game last weekend? If so he mightn't have been ready to play tonight.

In saying that I've always been a big fan of his but for whatever reason I fear we'll be getting rid.

I'd much rather keep Gomez in the middle and Clyne at right back than shifting Gomez out right and starting Lovren.
 

Claymenza

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Wasn't Clyne injured for the game last weekend? If so he mightn't have been ready to play tonight.

In saying that I've always been a big fan of his but for whatever reason I fear we'll be getting rid.

I'd much rather keep Gomez in the middle and Clyne at right back than shifting Gomez out right and starting Lovren.
Exactly my thoughts too. I feel clyne hasn't been playing even when fit which is a shame because he is very reliable. Gomez played a solid game at right back not too long ago but neymar was on another level today for him to handle.
 

AussieLad

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I'm a bit perplexed by what's happened with the trent, gomez and clyne situation. If trent needed a rest, surely clyne is more than an able deputee.

Yet gomez being a centre back was seen as an adequate substitute? Why is it that robertson didn't need a rest?
Out of the 3, Gomez is the best in defending 1-on-1, so I think it was a tactical change to deal with the threat that Neymar posed as TAA and Clyne are both more attacking minded so risked leaving him free more often. At least that is my hunch.
 

Red Armada

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Think that he needs to get back to the drawing board. Last season we killed teams that played openly against us, this season we've struggled against pretty much anyone that has come at us.

He's obviously elected for a more conservative approach, and with good reason, but it's clear that at the same time our attacking play has gone down the gutter along with our pressing.

If we fail to qualify, it will be the biggest failure of his time at Liverpool and he'll only have himself to blame.
 

Maria

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I think Klopp needs to find the right balance. Defensively we are fine, our Midfield is a problem, we are just not creative and dynamic enough. Fabinho and Keita are taking a long time bedding in. Also, we are not mean or streewise enough against teams like PSG or Real Madrid.
 
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RedForever2014

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When I watch matches like last night, I feel for the players who joined us thinking we were about to kick on to the next level.

I feel for Alisson and VVD that they have to come under such pressure because of those in front of them.

Whatever way people dress it up, or no matter how deep they bury their heads in the sand, the facts are clear.

We have lost 5 out of the last 7 Champions League matches, and we have lost 5 away Champions League matches in a row.

I don't see a side that's going to go far in that competition, or trouble City in the final reckoning in the PL, unless the new boys settle quickly, Klopp uses what he has better, and we make another signing or two in January.

Our Premier League results have been good, but they've been mostly against poorer sides, not the best in Europe and England. We've only beaten Spurs away in the PL and PSG at home from about 8 matches against top sides (those in the top four in their own leagues).

The goals conceded last night were from positions Gomez normally occupies. Obviously TAA has been poor this season, so I understand the temptation to move Gomez out and use Lovren. But the games we've lost have mostly been when Gomez hasn't been partnered with VVD at centre back.

Midfield is another department Klopp hasn't got right. The quality in the middle area of the pitch isn't the same as the keeper, defence and attack.

They're good players, but not good enough when faced with top quality opponents.

Klopp has to find a better midfield balance, and add better quality to the midfield group. Fabinho and Keita might come good, but at the moment we've not going to compete this season with the midfield group we have.
 

Iluvatar

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When I watch matches like last night, I feel for the players who joined us thinking we were about to kick on to the next level.

I feel for Alisson and VVD that they have to come under such pressure because of those in front of them.

Whatever way people dress it up, or no matter how deep they bury their heads in the sand, the facts are clear.

We have lost 5 out of the last 7 Champions League matches, and we have lost 5 away Champions League matches in a row.

I don't see a side that's going to go far in that competition, or trouble City in the final reckoning in the PL, unless the new boys settle quickly, Klopp uses what he has better, and we make another signing or two in January.

Our Premier League results have been good, but they've been mostly against poorer sides, not the best in Europe and England. We've only beaten Spurs away in the PL and PSG at home from about 8 matches against top sides (those in the top four in their own leagues).

The goals conceded last night were from positions Gomez normally occupies. Obviously TAA has been poor this season, so I understand the temptation to move Gomez out and use Lovren. But the games we've lost have mostly been when Gomez hasn't been partnered with VVD at centre back.

Midfield is another department Klopp hasn't got right. The quality in the middle area of the pitch isn't the same as the keeper, defence and attack.

They're good players, but not good enough when faced with top quality opponents.

Klopp has to find a better midfield balance, and add better quality to the midfield group. Fabinho and Keita might come good, but at the moment we've not going to compete this season with the midfield group we have.
Best start to the Premiership ever.. 33 points from 13 games @ 2.5 ppg (title winning rate in every season to date). But ok.. We are shit.

Yes Klopp needs to stop going back to the midfield 3 which keep failing to deliver away from home in Europe but the sky isn't falling chicken little.
 

Billy Biskix

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Think that he needs to get back to the drawing board. Last season we killed teams that played openly against us, this season we've struggled against pretty much anyone that has come at us.

He's obviously elected for a more conservative approach, and with good reason, but it's clear that at the same time our attacking play has gone down the gutter along with our pressing.

If we fail to qualify, it will be the biggest failure of his time at Liverpool and he'll only have himself to blame.
We need to rethink our strategy in the CL. We didn't set up conservatively last night. It was the classic 4-3-3 with Firmino as the 9 which people have been clamouring for and we attempted, when allowed to do so, the high press. There's an assumption that the teams we play against won't change their style or do anything different to counteract it but that's not what we're seeing and we need to try something different ourselves. The Roma first leg semi final last season was the very last time we saw a team set up naively against us. We won't see it again.

There is no surprise element any more. Every team we play in Europe knows exactly where our strengths and weaknesses lie in that system. Our CL thrashings ended with the Roma game and ever since we have struggled. In fact the only time we've looked good was against PSG at Anfield where their build up was too slow and that allowed us to press the hell out of them.

Last night they bypassed the press at every opportunity. In the first 10 seconds one long ball almost got Cavani in. Teams are adapting, like Napoli did, like Red Star did. We can't keep doing the same thing hoping it's just going to 'click'. I know it's not popular but I prefer the more conservative set up we're using by and large in the PL. The 4-2-3-1. It's duller but far more compact and makes us harder to play through. The difference in the CL is alarming. Not just the number of goals conceded (just one clean sheet) but the number of chances. Had it not been for Alisson we'd have been tonked out of sight last night.

Our defence is the best I've seen since Rafa and we need to base our approach now on being tough to break down. Certainly we need to try something different for Napoli. A 1-0 win is very doable but if they score we'll go out.
 

Mascot88

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What the actual fuck is going here.

We’re two points off the top of the league, unbeaten and enjoying the best start to premier league campaign ever. We’ve conceded five goals in the league.

We’ve had some difficulty in the Champions League, but it’s not as if Napoli and PSG are mugs. They are really good at football - that’s why they are in this tournament.

By any measure it’s been a brilliant first third of the campaign

And yet. And yet...

We had a lad In the post match suggesting Klopp should be sacked. Others suggesting it’s time to go back to the drawing board. One poster actively suggesting it might be better to drop the Europa. Others suggesting we’ve been ‘found out’. One lad (genius this one) saying our midfielders wouldn’t play for another top four team in any top league (erm...look at the table?). And a general mood of despair and soul searching that you’d expect to find from a relegation fight rather than a title challenge.

For fucks sake lads. Calm it down, eh? Anyone who has been a supporter of the club for more than a few years will have experienced us being genuinely shit. It doesn’t look like this.

And for context, last night we got beat by PSG. And despite the farcical nature of their approach to the game, they are very good at football and will have little difficulty beating most teams on the home turf.

I honestly fear for a lot of you if we do hit a genuinely disappointing run of form. If this is you reaction to a disappointing, but probably expected result, amidst a great start to the season, if we do start to struggle you won’t need a football forum, you’ll need the Samaritans.
 

Red Armada

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We need to rethink our strategy in the CL. We didn't set up conservatively last night. It was the classic 4-3-3 with Firmino as the 9 which people have been clamouring for and we attempted, when allowed to do so, the high press. There's an assumption that the teams we play against won't change their style or do anything different to counteract it but that's not what we're seeing and we need to try something different ourselves. The Roma first leg semi final last season was the very last time we saw a team set up naively against us. We won't see it again.

There is no surprise element any more. Every team we play in Europe knows exactly where our strengths and weaknesses lie in that system. Our CL thrashings ended with the Roma game and ever since we have struggled. In fact the only time we've looked good was against PSG at Anfield where their build up was too slow and that allowed us to press the hell out of them.

Last night they bypassed the press at every opportunity. In the first 10 seconds one long ball almost got Cavani in. Teams are adapting, like Napoli did, like Red Star did. We can't keep doing the same thing hoping it's just going to 'click'. I know it's not popular but I prefer the more conservative set up we're using by and large in the PL. The 4-2-3-1. It's duller but far more compact and makes us harder to play through. The difference in the CL is alarming. Not just the number of goals conceded (just one clean sheet) but the number of chances. Had it not been for Alisson we'd have been tonked out of sight last night.

Our defence is the best I've seen since Rafa and we need to base our approach now on being tough to break down. Certainly we need to try something different for Napoli. A 1-0 win is very doable but if they score we'll go out.
Αgreed and that's why I said that he needs to make changes. The thing that annoyed me the most was the manner of the defeat. Teams have adapted while we still commit the same mistakes and at times look that we can't get even the basics right. 4-3-3 with Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner was asking for trouble. No formation offers guaranteed success but 4-2-3-1 if nothing else would have offered better protection to the back four.

I think it's time to start playing Keita and Fabinho regularly and at the same time figure out something so that we don't look so vulnerable to pressing and so clueless in the final third. Oh Firmino and Salah (to a lesser degree) rediscovering some modicum of form wouldn't hurt either.
 

Billy Biskix

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Αgreed and that's why I said that he needs to make changes. The thing that annoyed me the most was the manner of the defeat. Teams have adapted while we still commit the same mistakes and at times look that we can't get even the basics right. 4-3-3 with Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner was asking for trouble. No formation offers guaranteed success but 4-2-3-1 if nothing else would have offered better protection to the back four.

I think it's time to start playing Keita and Fabinho regularly and at the same time figure out something so that we don't look so vulnerable to pressing and so clueless in the final third. Oh Firmino and Salah (to a lesser degree) rediscovering some modicum of form wouldn't hurt either.
I wouldn't blame JK for picking Gini/Henderson/Milner last night. It was the most obvious permutation after the game at Anfield. Most people seem to agree that was one of our best performances of the season and the midfield were great that night. You have to give PSG some credit, as odious as they are, they have some of the best players in the world and they were on it last night. Lightning fast passing, great movement. We couldn't live with them in the first half.

To be fair to JK he is obviously concerned about the midfield and that's where almost all the money was spent in the summer. He gave Fabinho a start against Arsenal and, let's face it, he was bloody terrible. Keita's blown hot and cold and been injured so it's not been a straightforward case of JK not giving them a chance. They need a run of games obviously before we can make a judgement. I am pretty sure they will get that now given the frequency of the games coming up.
 

Limiescouse

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We had a lad In the post match suggesting Klopp should be sacked. Others suggesting it’s time to go back to the drawing board. One poster actively suggesting it might be better to drop the Europa. Others suggesting we’ve been ‘found out’. One lad (genius this one) saying our midfielders wouldn’t play for another top four team in any top league (erm...look at the table?). And a general mood of despair and soul searching that you’d expect to find from a relegation fight rather than a title challenge.

For fucks sake lads. Calm it down, eh? Anyone who has been a supporter of the club for more than a few years will have experienced us being genuinely shit. It doesn’t look like this.
It's not even a case of this being better than the recent past. It is a case that even when you have a dam good side eventually you lose a game. During our supposed peak we got knocked out of the European cup in the first round two years in a row. We got knocked out by relative minnows from Georgia, Bulgaria and Poland. And this was during an era when we were breaking domestic records and among the period in which we were establishing our European greatness.

The people who just come on here on say "eventually we are going to lose unless we start playing better" will feel they have been shown they are right. However, what they are doing is no different than taking a pack of cards, turning over the top one and predicting it is the ace of spades. They have no real insight into what the top actually is, but if you do it enough times eventually you are going to pull the card you're looking for. These are the people who would have been calling for Paisley's head in the early 80s because we were only winning the league and were not able to properly compete in Europe. Yet, without realizing it, they are then holding the current team and manager to standard that their supposed standard bearer did not even live up to.
 

JustHitMyHead

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Hmmm... I got a ManU ad on this page. Something feels wrong about that.

Anyhow I don't agree with the sentiment that things are fine. A Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner midfield combo is bad. Because our record is good, it doesn't make that combination a good one.

And certainly there were probably ways to integrate Keita and Fabinho faster. But it is how we move forward rather than how we regret our missed opportunities.

I don't have a big problem with the moaners... we need close to perfectionism to win the title and being picky about improvements is a good thing.
 

Mascot88

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It's not even a case of this being better than the recent past. It is a case that even when you have a dam good side eventually you lose a game. During our supposed peak we got knocked out of the European cup in the first round two years in a row. We got knocked out by relative minnows from Georgia, Bulgaria and Poland. And this was during an era when we were breaking domestic records and among the period in which we were establishing our European greatness.

The people who just come on here on say "eventually we are going to lose unless we start playing better" will feel they have been shown they are right. However, what they are doing is no different than taking a pack of cards, turning over the top one and predicting it is the ace of spades. They have no real insight into what the top actually is, but if you do it enough times eventually you are going to pull the card you're looking for. These are the people who would have been calling for Paisley's head in the early 80s because we were only winning the league and were not able to properly compete in Europe. Yet, without realizing it, they are then holding the current team and manager to standard that their supposed standard bearer did not even live up to.
Exactly. And let’s remember that these aren’t mugs we’re playing in Europe. Red Star was a big disappointment, but there is no disgrace getting done away from home against Napoli and PSG. We made Paris look like mugs on our pitch - how quickly that is forgotten. They got the same result as we did.

It’s called the champions league for a reason. We’re mixing with the big boys now, and that means there is a greater chance one of them will give us a bloody nose. We can’t go away to places like this and act like spoilt bastards because they play better than us.

I remember sitting in on a disagreement between two Watford supporting mates a few years ago. One was of the opinion that he couldn’t wait for them to get relegated, because they were getting battered every week and it was no fun. The other was outraged, and was of the opinion that if they didn’t strive to get to, and hold a place in the top division then football was meaningless. I agreed with him. If we want to be a champions league team, we have to accept that we are a some distance away from dominating that tournament - we are frequently going to be playing teams who, on paper, are better than us.

And Football isn’t a turn based game played in isolation, where you’re only really competing against yourself. The other team are actively trying to stop you doing the thing you want to do. There was an occasion last night (and this is where there is a difference between watching it on telly and at the ground) where Hendo splits the centre backs, demands the ball, looks forward, and then turns around and gives it back to Alisson. And I went fucking spare. Jesus Christ, Jordan! What the fuck is that! Why are you demanding the ball if that’s your plan, you fucking twat? And the commentator said this is really impressive from PSG - Henderson has absolutely no option there to pass to. He can only go back.

Sometimes you’re shit because you’re shit and sometimes you’re shit because the opposition are doing a good job of making you shit. Sometimes it’s a bit of both.
 

Dane

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So, it didn't take long for the pitchforks to appear, did it?

I'm sure there are some on here who would whine like fuck if they won the Euromillions rollover jackpot, then found out there was another winning ticket.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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I have no problem with a Gini/Henderson/Milner midfield. However I do if Gomez is used as a fullback.

One of our greatest strengths is our fullbacks getting forward and overlapping. They stretch the game and create space. In this scenario our deep midfielders provide cover.

When we have Gomez he offers different qualities to TAA. We are sacrificing his best position by moving him wide, and also loosing the balance to our attacking play as he does not get forward in the same way.
 

Alright Now

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What the actual fuck is going here.

We’re two points off the top of the league, unbeaten and enjoying the best start to premier league campaign ever. We’ve conceded five goals in the league.

We’ve had some difficulty in the Champions League, but it’s not as if Napoli and PSG are mugs. They are really good at football - that’s why they are in this tournament.

By any measure it’s been a brilliant first third of the campaign

And yet. And yet...

We had a lad In the post match suggesting Klopp should be sacked. Others suggesting it’s time to go back to the drawing board. One poster actively suggesting it might be better to drop the Europa. Others suggesting we’ve been ‘found out’. One lad (genius this one) saying our midfielders wouldn’t play for another top four team in any top league (erm...look at the table?). And a general mood of despair and soul searching that you’d expect to find from a relegation fight rather than a title challenge.

For fucks sake lads. Calm it down, eh? Anyone who has been a supporter of the club for more than a few years will have experienced us being genuinely shit. It doesn’t look like this.

And for context, last night we got beat by PSG. And despite the farcical nature of their approach to the game, they are very good at football and will have little difficulty beating most teams on the home turf.

I honestly fear for a lot of you if we do hit a genuinely disappointing run of form. If this is you reaction to a disappointing, but probably expected result, amidst a great start to the season, if we do start to struggle you won’t need a football forum, you’ll need the Samaritans.
New best post of the month.
 

Billy Biskix

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Hmmm... I got a ManU ad on this page. Something feels wrong about that.

Anyhow I don't agree with the sentiment that things are fine. A Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner midfield combo is bad. Because our record is good, it doesn't make that combination a good one.

And certainly there were probably ways to integrate Keita and Fabinho faster. But it is how we move forward rather than how we regret our missed opportunities.

I don't have a big problem with the moaners... we need close to perfectionism to win the title and being picky about improvements is a good thing.
The dissenting voice is fine. Sometimes it forces you to rethink, see things from a different perspective. There are some who are just relentlessly negative, forever predicting disaster, painting the gloomiest possible picture and then revelling in being 'right' when a result goes against us.

This seems to particularly be the case this season. In many ways I think the very worst thing that could have happened last season was that we made the CL final and then lost it. It had the effect of simultaneously cementing our recent reputation of getting close but not being able to get across the line whilst raising expectations for this season to a ridiculously high level. Now people want perfection. Great football and great results. The manager can demand perfection but fans can't. Especially given the last 30 years we've had.
 

[email protected]

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So, it didn't take long for the pitchforks to appear, did it?

I'm sure there are some on here who would whine like fuck if they won the Euromillions rollover jackpot, then found out there was another winning ticket.
Well, fucking... yeah! I mean, winning the lottery is like once in a lifetime thing and you want me to share?? ;-)
 



RedForever2014

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Best start to the Premiership ever.. 33 points from 13 games @ 2.5 ppg (title winning rate in every season to date). But ok.. We are shit.

Yes Klopp needs to stop going back to the midfield 3 which keep failing to deliver away from home in Europe but the sky isn't falling chicken little.
Exactly. And let’s remember that these aren’t mugs we’re playing in Europe. Red Star was a big disappointment, but there is no disgrace getting done away from home against Napoli and PSG. We made Paris look like mugs on our pitch - how quickly that is forgotten. They got the same result as we did.

It’s called the champions league for a reason. We’re mixing with the big boys now, and that means there is a greater chance one of them will give us a bloody nose. We can’t go away to places like this and act like spoilt bastards because they play better than us.

I remember sitting in on a disagreement between two Watford supporting mates a few years ago. One was of the opinion that he couldn’t wait for them to get relegated, because they were getting battered every week and it was no fun. The other was outraged, and was of the opinion that if they didn’t strive to get to, and hold a place in the top division then football was meaningless. I agreed with him. If we want to be a champions league team, we have to accept that we are a some distance away from dominating that tournament - we are frequently going to be playing teams who, on paper, are better than us.

And Football isn’t a turn based game played in isolation, where you’re only really competing against yourself. The other team are actively trying to stop you doing the thing you want to do. There was an occasion last night (and this is where there is a difference between watching it on telly and at the ground) where Hendo splits the centre backs, demands the ball, looks forward, and then turns around and gives it back to Alisson. And I went fucking spare. Jesus Christ, Jordan! What the fuck is that! Why are you demanding the ball if that’s your plan, you fucking twat? And the commentator said this is really impressive from PSG - Henderson has absolutely no option there to pass to. He can only go back.

Sometimes you’re shit because you’re shit and sometimes you’re shit because the opposition are doing a good job of making you shit. Sometimes it’s a bit of both.
Can't speak for others, but I for one never said it's doom and gloom.

I just think it's disappointing that with a fully fit squad, bar the long term injury to Oxlade (who we chose not to replace for this season), we've seen such a shocking run of results in Europe.

We're not talking about only losing to the very top brass. We lost to Roma, RSB and Napoli as well as Real Madrid and PSG.

I don't think it's an over-reaction to note that we've lost 5 out of the last 7 Champions League matches, including 5 consecutive away defeats, and ask questions about that.

IMO our midfield is at best inconsistent, but more often than not has been outplayed when faced with top sides.

I guess it comes down to expectations. We probably shouldn't expect to compete with the big boys when we've only invested £33m net a year under Klopp.
 

Mascot88

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Can't speak for others, but I for one never said it's doom and gloom.

I just think it's disappointing that with a fully fit squad, bar the long term injury to Oxlade (who we chose not to replace for this season), we've seen such a shocking run of results in Europe.

We're not talking about only losing to the very top brass. We lost to Roma, RSB and Napoli as well as Real Madrid and PSG.

I don't think it's an over-reaction to note that we've lost 5 out of the last 7 Champions League matches, including 5 consecutive away defeats, and ask questions about that.

IMO our midfield is at best inconsistent, but more often than not has been outplayed when faced with top sides.

I guess it comes down to expectations. We probably shouldn't expect to compete with the big boys when we've only invested £33m net a year under Klopp.
We can’t expect to compete with the big boys?

We reached the Champions League final, mate. And we’re unbeaten in our domestic league.

We are competing. But these are good teams, and we can lose to them, especially away from home and it not be the end of the world. None of the one you listed are gimmes (aside from, maybe RSB - which is still for a variety of reasons a horrible away)
 

Limiescouse

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13,078
We can’t expect to compete with the big boys?

We reached the Champions League final, mate. And we’re unbeaten in our domestic league.

We are competing. But these are good teams, and we can lose to them, especially away from home and it not be the end of the world. None of the one you listed are gimmes (aside from, maybe RSB - which is still for a variety of reasons a horrible away)
We're a win at home away from securing passage from the toughest group, a group that will result in one very good side going out. This is what qualifies as a "shocking run of results in Europe"
 

RedForever2014

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,945
We can’t expect to compete with the big boys?

We reached the Champions League final, mate. And we’re unbeaten in our domestic league.

We are competing. But these are good teams, and we can lose to them, especially away from home and it not be the end of the world. None of the one you listed are gimmes (aside from, maybe RSB - which is still for a variety of reasons a horrible away)
You're competitive if you sometimes win something. Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United are competitive, we and Spurs are not.

Also, it's not the odd defeat. We've lost 5 out of 7 CL matches, that's a very poor return.

Let's face it, our run to the CL Final had a bit of fortune. One of the easier groups, an easy last 16 tie, a side we had the measure of in the QF, the easiest of the three possible opponents in the semi.

We had misfortune in the final, but basically they outplayed us in midfield and had the measure of our forwards. Ramos was cynical, but Varane pure class.

Let's get to the rub of this.

I accept that we've not the resources of some clubs and will never be winning trophies regularly.

I think we have done well to turn the Rodgers squad into the current squad for £100m net.

But I think we need to go further in the transfer market to get this current squad over the line to one which can win anything at all, something I think should be possible (if FSG weren't extracting cash via FSM in ways I've outlined before).

It is the club's reluctance to add a player in the Coutinho or Oxlade mould that had led to the poor results in Europe and which will cost us in the league. Put those two back in the squad and I think we'd run City closer in the PL than we will and do better in Europe.

Klopp causes further issues with team selections, but ultimately it's the club's transfer market activity that is the biggest influence.

The club will not move heaven and earth to add what we need to take this squad over the line.
 

Quagmire81

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
6,763
Jeez people and their short term memories :rolleyes:

Last year we were worse in the group stages and the teams then were not even remotely compariable to this years. Have some faith and be prepared for a potential legendary game when we beat the crap out of Napoli.

To qoute Carra last night, last time we had to win with two goals in the final group game we freaking won the whole lot!