Jürgen Klopp: 2018 - 2019

ubermick

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How many trophies have they won in the past 10 years versus us?
That argument doesn't work, though. Football is very much a "what have you done for me lately?" thing these days where - as we've been reminded time and time again - history is in the past and its what's going on in the here and now that counts.

Agree that the trophy drought needs to end though, and in that aspect Klopp needs to change some of this thinking, notably about persisting with the midfield as it is. I can't fathom the need to keep Fabinho and Keita on the sidelines while they get "comfortable with the system" given that the system as it is doesn't really work, certainly not against top teams.
 

Limiescouse

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You're competitive if you sometimes win something. Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United are competitive, we and Spurs are not.

Also, it's not the odd defeat. We've lost 5 out of 7 CL matches, that's a very poor return.

Let's face it, our run to the CL Final had a bit of fortune. One of the easier groups, an easy last 16 tie, a side we had the measure of in the QF, the easiest of the three possible opponents in the semi.
This is a predeveloped position in search of evidence to support it. That is the only way anyone can use a loss in a Champions League final (and a quite bizarre one at that) and the loss of an away semi final leg in which the tie was already long won as a way to support a narrative of poor form.
 

FilthyBloke

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The doom and gloom is casting a very heavy cloud above our great start to the season.
Only the defeat to red star is what you would consider poor. PSG and Napoli beating us is no disgrace. Nor was losing to Chelsea in league cup. Every other result has been spot on.
Performances haven’t been great. There seems to be a whole load of players out of form. In fact I’d go as far as saying our best players so far this season are Allison, Gomez, VVD and Robertson.
But this is where our cloud stems from. Last season it was salah, mane and firmino who bossed and now it’s defensive players which, although unfair, doesn’t catch the headlines as much.
Our midfield is questioned a lot, but when it works it’s fine. It’s when it needs that extra vision and class it falls short. An Alonso now, or anyone who can spot that 45 yard pass, would be ideal. But we have what we have, at least until January. Until then keita and Fabinho need to settle, preferably faster than they are currently, and Ox is being sorely missed.

But a win against Everton and we could be top. In December. Without a defeat yet.

It’s a strange season. People seem to be in hysterics over things, when in reality, we are a results driven business, and we are getting all the right results in the league and are one result away from knockout stages of champions league.
 

sms1986

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I think we were always going to have a few defeats even with our brilliant start to the season (and we will be even better next season and the season after that and the season after that and so on) but we're so much more improved this season and once we get to 100% we'll be fine. Like Mourinho often has a poor third season, Klopp usually has a great third season and I don't see that changing this time.
 

Quagmire81

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How many trophies have they won in the past 10 years versus us?
Sure let's pretend that Wengers last few years didn't have all gooners pulling their hair out in frustration. Competitive... Ha! Their fans were celebrating a draw with us as they won a cup.

They getting back on track tho with the new coach but they're still (and surely) under us in the current hierachy IMHO.

btw. We been in two European finals lately, does that count for nothing?
 
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Bonus

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I read that some forum member are questioning Klopp change of style
but last season was a long, hard and draining 1, 56 games in total,
38 in the EPL and 15 in the champs league, then the world cup.

so it doesn't surprise me that we are playing a different style of play,
imagine trying to play our full throttle gegerpressing style of play from the start of this season,
Our players would be spent by now.

Instead Klopp has gone for a less draining style of play, just keeping things ticking over,
keeping within touching distance of the top, doing just enough to get where we want to be,

then release the full throttle gegerpress in the new year,
when the player are less leggy and more energised for the run in.
 

Limiescouse

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I read that some forum member are questioning Klopp change of style
but last season was a long, hard and draining 1, 56 games in total,
38 in the EPL and 15 in the champs league, then the world cup.

so it doesn't surprise me that we are playing a different style of play,
imagine trying to play our full throttle gegerpressing style of play from the start of this season,
Our players would be spent by now.

Instead Klopp has gone for a less draining style of play, just keeping things ticking over,
keeping within touching distance of the top, doing just enough to get where we want to be,

then release the full throttle gegerpress in the new year,
when the player are less leggy and more energised for the run in.
I am sure there is a big element of him being conscious about the physical demands for his players. However, I would caution against expecting the handbrake to be released and mayhem to be unleashed. That style is simply not possible against sides that come to avoid losing, as has become the case for all but a handful of teams. The infrequency with which we find ourselves playing against a team who actually wants to try and play against us means that it is almost impossible to just flip a switch and play like that on the odd occasion like last night when we do find ourselves up against a side that fancies itself.

We can and surely will add more flair and panache. These players are too good not to, and Klopp too magnetic a manager to not bring in players who will if the incumbents cannot. But I think we should all come to terms that the days of playing to a Motorhead soundtrack are probably behind us.
 

Mascot88

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I am sure there is a big element of him being conscious about the physical demands for his players. However, I would caution against expecting the handbrake to be released and mayhem to be unleashed. That style is simply not possible against sides that come to avoid losing, as has become the case for all but a handful of teams. The infrequency with which we find ourselves playing against a team who actually wants to try and play against us means that it is almost impossible to just flip a switch and play like that on the odd occasion like last night when we do find ourselves up against a side that fancies itself.

We can and surely will add more flair and panache. These players are too good not to, and Klopp too magnetic a manager to not bring in players who will if the incumbents cannot. But I think we should all come to terms that the days of playing to a Motorhead soundtrack are probably behind us.
I think this is true, and have argued a similar point.

But we also need to cautious not to mythologise last season into something it wasn’t. We’d handed out a few beatings, but we got properly turned over ourselves twice. We drew a lot of games, and won a lot by a narrow margin.

It seems to me like the team kicks on in the new year, and that’s what people are remembering.
 
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I’ve been here a long time, but I’m genuinely stunned at the behaviour of the forum in response to getting beat by PSG away from home. It’s mental.
I say it's an improvement from days where we just shrugged off loses, were indifferent and moved on in the last decade. It genuinely shows we care. We are ambitious. We want to win everything.
I agree its a bit over the top. But us football fans are passionate and mental to begin with.
 

Red Armada

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We're in the group of fucking death FFS. If we win our next game we are through.
Let me rephrase then: our form in the CL away from home has been poor. Or are you satisfied with the performances?

I’ve been here a long time, but I’m genuinely stunned at the behaviour of the forum in response to getting beat by PSG away from home. It’s mental.
It's the performances away from home, not so much the results.
 

nikz200

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I don't know the exact impact of losing Buvac for Klopp. I do know we have been keeping pace in the league with city every week which must be exhausting at some point. No one can deny our Champions league away form has been near disastrous but the reason for that could be a myriad of things. Klopp has done his best i think to keep them focused but perhaps its a lot to ask of him to keep us in all competitions. He doesn't deserved to be dismissed over a champions league exit, but this club needs to win at least one trophy while the window with Klopp is still open. Not only that , sadly we must bolster in January, cause for some reason despite having good players, we still were unable to beat Arsenal ,Chelsea and City yet this season. We will see how we do in January once Ox is fit and we get some attacking options up and running.
 

RedForever2014

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This is a predeveloped position in search of evidence to support it. That is the only way anyone can use a loss in a Champions League final (and a quite bizarre one at that) and the loss of an away semi final leg in which the tie was already long won as a way to support a narrative of poor form.
A predeveloped position in search of evidence.

Let's forget last season then, we have lost all three away matches in the Champions League this season, with abject performances in each.

We were shocking in Naples, Belgrade and Paris. It's not like we played well and lost to goals against the run of play.

Sure let's pretend that Wengers last few years didn't have all gooners pulling their hair out in frustration. Competitive... Ha! Their fans were celebrating a draw with us as they won a cup.

They getting back on track tho with the new coach but they're still (and surely) under us in the current hierachy IMHO.

btw. We been in two European finals lately, does that count for nothing?
They were pulling their hair out at because of the club's fall from being regular trophy winners, largely due to spending constraints because of the new stadium and the emergence of Chelsea and then City.

Big difference in falling away from winning things regularly and winning three FA Cups in 10 years being relative failure, and one League Cup in 10 years.

As to losing finals, it depends on whether you are happy always being the bridesmaid.

I’ve been here a long time, but I’m genuinely stunned at the behaviour of the forum in response to getting beat by PSG away from home. It’s mental.
Those of us with friends and connections beyond Merseyside, i.e. supporters of other clubs, know only too well that many other fans acknowledge the passion and dedication of LFC supporters, but also note that it comes with a tendency to over-glorify failure and refuse to see and accept deficiencies.

The issue under discussion perfectly demonstrates the point.

You're dumbfounded that some of us are asking questions regarding the fact that we have lost three out of five Champions League matches this season, five from the last seven including last season, and you are arguably mischievously suggesting this is a hysterical reaction to one defeat.

If losing 60% of the matches in a competition (71% including the end of last season), cannot be questioned without those who do so being portrayed as hysterical, then it is in fact the other side of the discussion that is hysterical in refusing to see and accept any fair minded observation and criticism.

The facts are what they are in terms of results.

Hopefully we'll do Napoli, get away with it, and then improve by the time the last 16 comes around.

But in the meantime, it has to be observed that there is something seriously wrong with the performances across all competitions and with the results in the Champions League.

In my opinion our problems are a combination of things.

1. Klopp has made poor selection decisions in the Champions League. He has broken up our best centre back partnership often in those matches, partly to rotate and partly because his first choice right back (TAA) has been poor this season and hasn't been trusted. He also used squad players like Lallana, who are not good enough at that level.
2. We have no genuine rotation for the front three of Bobby, Salah and Mane, none of whom had a proper summer break. This is because we didn't sign anyone good enough to rotate with them. It's obvious they need more rotation now so they can be firing during the run in.
3. The link between central midfield and the forwards has been downgraded from Coutinho and Oxlade last season to a mix of Shaqiri, Bobby out of position, Lallana, or not playing that link at all and going with three central midfielders instead.
4. Central midfield is currently suffering from the fact that this time last season Can was a viable rotation option with Hendo, Gini and Milner. Can put in some good performances, particularly in Europe. Fabinho and Keita aren't offering that option.

The fact that we are winning Premier League matches against sides outside the top 5 or 6, as we've now got a good defence and keeper and our forwards are still scoring enough to win those matches despite not being on top form, doesn't mean we shouldn't look at how to improve our results against better sides, particularly in Europe.

If we don't think we should be competing at that level and that defeat is acceptable, we shouldn't really be selling the club to the likes of VVD and Alisson as we did.
 
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i_still_miss_fowler

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There is no shame in losing in the last minute against Napoli or losing to PSG both in away games. The poor result was against Red Star.

Manchester City lost to Lyon, Real Madrid lost to CSK Moscow, Milan lost to Spurs, Atletico got walloped by Dortmund. You can not expect to win away from home in the Champions League.

If we fail to beat Napoli we deserve to go home. However if we go through we absolutely deserved to.
 
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I don't know the exact impact of losing Buvac for Klopp. I do know we have been keeping pace in the league with city every week which must be exhausting at some point. No one can deny our Champions league away form has been near disastrous but the reason for that could be a myriad of things. Klopp has done his best i think to keep them focused but perhaps its a lot to ask of him to keep us in all competitions. He doesn't deserved to be dismissed over a champions league exit, but this club needs to win at least one trophy while the window with Klopp is still open. Not only that , sadly we must bolster in January, cause for some reason despite having good players, we still were unable to beat Arsenal ,Chelsea and City yet this season. We will see how we do in January once Ox is fit and we get some attacking options up and running.
I thought ox is done for the season. :think:
 

Dane

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After reading the last 2 pages of this thread, I dont think I've been so down and pessimistic since the dark days of the owl.
Klopp needs to turn around this disgraceful run of results or go.
 



Red Ted

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I say it's an improvement from days where we just shrugged off loses, were indifferent and moved on in the last decade. It genuinely shows we care. We are ambitious. We want to win everything.
I agree its a bit over the top. But us football fans are passionate and mental to begin with.
Absolutely, good post.
 

Alright Now

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The Missus just got in from her ladies football chuffed to bits that she scored two goals. My eldest (7) looked up at her, sniffed, and said ‘you should have got a hat trick’

Liverpool fan through and through.
Huh? A through and through Liverpool fan would say, “Didn’t get a hat trick? Probably miss Phil.”
 
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Today's pre match interview Klopp must've said 'what the fuck are you on about' about twenty times in his head,some of the questions were fucking stupid though,'can we cope without Hendo',is he supposed to say no :eh?:,'will the players be ready',i mean fucking hell fire.
 

Red Ted

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Saw it earlier, can't remember seeing him that testy in a pre match presser & you can't blame him.

Those reporters generally ask the same old rubbish unimaginative questions along with some dumb ones but today it was up a level, god knows why he kept getting asked about Henderson? What a pointless & lame thing to keep asking about.

The other day before PSG some journo meekly popped up and asked about how Lallana & Solanke were doing, that journo has got 1 question to ask Klopp before a big CL game and he goes and asks that, seriously? Klopp's frowning reaction to it said it all.