Jürgen Klopp: 2018 - 2019

Iluvatar

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Edwards has done great work, as has Klopp, as have the owners for that matter.

The point is that for whatever reason LFC didn't add a 4th quality forward that (at the very least) was obviously needed last May (see my post above), and the issue reared its head again last night (and IMO in those PL draws).

If anybody wants to argue against my view that the biggest issue in our squad is the absence of a 4th quality forward, when we play three of them week in week out, then I would question their judgement.

Whilst other departments are not ideal, we've depth everywhere but up top, something that was obvious last summer.

I only hope that the issue isn't compounded by one of our front three deciding they need to move on this summer, if they are ever to win a trophy.

It would be ironic given that their wastefulness in front of goal at key moments has cost us, but that's the way it is.
I just think we disagree on the reason why, you edge to FSG not providing money. I think Klopp is very particular and when Fekir fell through he didn't have an alternative he wanted (or we couldn't get i.e. unavailable).

I agree with you our depth for the front 3 isn't sufficient, I do think we address it this summer though.

The major problem is anyone we go after know they are 4th choice, Mane, Firmino, Salah is a worldclass front 3 who are devastating, dedicated and hardly ever injured. So you are probably looking at youth, paying vast wages for a 4th choice (to compensate for lack of football) which I think attracts the wrong type or a multi-position player (which there are very very few of!) The pool we are looking at is tiny so I understand why we looked internally first.
 

Mascot88

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Edwards has done great work, as has Klopp, as have the owners for that matter.

The point is that for whatever reason LFC didn't add a 4th quality forward that (at the very least) was obviously needed last May (see my post above), and the issue reared its head again last night (and IMO in those PL draws).
The way Klopp and Edwards have built a side capable of going toe to toe with City, is by an absolute refusal to compromise on what they need.

It’s this ‘just fucking get someone in’ attitude that you take with the forward line that would have seen us ‘just buy a Centre Back’ at the start of last season, or ‘just buy a keeper’ when it became clear that Karius and Mignolet weren’t up to it.

We didn’t need a defender or a keeper. We needed Virgil Van Dijk and Alisson Becker.
 

Mascot88

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Just think about the weekend, and it struck me what a bastard of a decision Klopp has to make.

We’re still marginally in two competitions with the likelihood that we win neither. I’m sure that the players want to play Barca at home and I’m sure many of them have the self belief we can make a game of this.

But imagine if we throw everything at Barca, take our eye of the ball against Newcastle, and the Man City drop points.

Playing the odds I think we now have a greater chance of winning the league than the European Cup, and we have to prioritise Newcastle.
 

macca1970

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I just think we disagree on the reason why, you edge to FSG not providing money. I think Klopp is very particular and when Fekir fell through he didn't have an alternative he wanted (or we couldn't get i.e. unavailable).

I agree with you our depth for the front 3 isn't sufficient, I do think we address it this summer though.

The major problem is anyone we go after know they are 4th choice, Mane, Firmino, Salah is a worldclass front 3 who are devastating, dedicated and hardly ever injured. So you are probably looking at youth, paying vast wages for a 4th choice (to compensate for lack of football) which I think attracts the wrong type or a multi-position player (which there are very very few of!) The pool we are looking at is tiny so I understand why we looked internally first.
I just don't agree with this. Look at the amount of games we play each year. Having an extra top level forward player is a must. A no brainer if one is available.
 

Iluvatar

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I just don't agree with this. Look at the amount of games we play each year. Having an extra top level forward player is a must. A no brainer if one is available.
So when all 4 are fit unless you are buying Messi who starts as your front 3? It's Salah, Firmino, Mane.

I understand they will get games via rotation, but our 3 hardly get injured so my point still stands someone is coming in as 4th choice.
 

Speckydodge

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So when all 4 are fit unless you are buying Messi who starts as your front 3? It's Salah, Firmino, Mane.

I understand they will get games via rotation, but our 3 hardly get injured so my point still stands someone is coming in as 4th choice.

But they do get tired and out of form from over playing them so rotating them all even when fully fit will help ensure they stay sharp and less likely to get injuries, just look at our midfield this season there's still plenty of game time for them all. We must be the only elite club that doesn't have this option.
 

Hope in your heart

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Just think about the weekend, and it struck me what a bastard of a decision Klopp has to make.

(...)

Playing the odds I think we now have a greater chance of winning the league than the European Cup, and we have to prioritise Newcastle.
Play what's in front of you, 120%. There is no room for speculation anymore.
 

igor_piss_can

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Just think about the weekend, and it struck me what a bastard of a decision Klopp has to make.

We’re still marginally in two competitions with the likelihood that we win neither. I’m sure that the players want to play Barca at home and I’m sure many of them have the self belief we can make a game of this.

But imagine if we throw everything at Barca, take our eye of the ball against Newcastle, and the Man City drop points.

Playing the odds I think we now have a greater chance of winning the league than the European Cup, and we have to prioritise Newcastle.
I think we really need to go full throttle for both of these games, no dabbling about with the squad. Hopefully this is where the warm weather camps from a couple of months back might start to pay dividends. Also with a bit of luck we'll get a few early goals against Newcastle & can then drop down a few gears & make some substitutions. I could understand rotating if we had a high concentration of games a few months back but we've got 270 minutes of football left (maybe a bit more if we can pull of a miracle on Tuesday), hopefully the players will see the final hurdle & use that as motivation to push on
 

pottymonster

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The concern for me at this point is that we still haven't won anything. That can all change with a slice of good fortune in the next week, but this could end up being another nearly year. I guess I'm just disappointed with that.

In no way is this a criticism of Klopp; we've improved year on year with him in charge and the team is lightyears ahead of where it was when he took over and that's got to be almost entirely his own achievement. I honestly don't believe that there's any manager in the world who could have done any better than he has with us. The hope has to be that if we consistently challenge for honors that eventually we'll win some.

But still, how bad is our luck? League Cup runners up, Europa League runners up, Champions League runners up, now probably Premier League runners up and probably a Champions League semi-final exit. For fucks sake, in those 3 seasons Manchester City will have won the League twice, United won the Europa League, Chelsea have won the League and an FA Cup, and even fucking Arsenal have an FA Cup, and it's quite likely that one of those last two will also have a Europa League trophy at the end of this season. Like, fuck off. We've been on an upward trajectory and we've pretty clearly been the better side than 3 of those 4 for the last 2 seasons, but we're probably going to have nothing to show for it.

I guess I'm just really bummed out about yesterdays result. We should be competing at the same levels next season, but the pressure will be higher. Let's hope we can finally get it over the line then.
 

Limiescouse

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Just think about the weekend, and it struck me what a bastard of a decision Klopp has to make.

We’re still marginally in two competitions with the likelihood that we win neither. I’m sure that the players want to play Barca at home and I’m sure many of them have the self belief we can make a game of this.

But imagine if we throw everything at Barca, take our eye of the ball against Newcastle, and the Man City drop points.

Playing the odds I think we now have a greater chance of winning the league than the European Cup, and we have to prioritise Newcastle.
It's 3 games. If there is a 4th it will be several weeks later. At this stage with what we've got left on the table uou don't prioritize. You go 100% at every game. One of the things I like about this side is it doesnt feel sorry for itself so I dont expect there to be a hangover from last night.
 

RedForever2014

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I just think we disagree on the reason why, you edge to FSG not providing money. I think Klopp is very particular and when Fekir fell through he didn't have an alternative he wanted (or we couldn't get i.e. unavailable).

I agree with you our depth for the front 3 isn't sufficient, I do think we address it this summer though.

The major problem is anyone we go after know they are 4th choice, Mane, Firmino, Salah is a worldclass front 3 who are devastating, dedicated and hardly ever injured. So you are probably looking at youth, paying vast wages for a 4th choice (to compensate for lack of football) which I think attracts the wrong type or a multi-position player (which there are very very few of!) The pool we are looking at is tiny so I understand why we looked internally first.
So when all 4 are fit unless you are buying Messi who starts as your front 3? It's Salah, Firmino, Mane.

I understand they will get games via rotation, but our 3 hardly get injured so my point still stands someone is coming in as 4th choice.
Firstly, there is an argument about how world class they are as finishers. On more than one occasion, when it has mattered, they have not delivered.

I also don't think that if we continue to play the front three week in week out, they will remain as robust against injuries, especially as all three of them will have a second consecutive summer that isn't complete rest (African Nations Cup and Copa America).

I actually think it's reckless to play them this much, for them personally, and for LFC in terms of them being assets, and that sooner or later we will start to see them become absent more.

IMO there is more than enough football to rotate four top quality forwards, and indeed we can play all four on a number of occasions (especially against bus parkers), even if one comes off the bench. We used to do so when Coutinho was here.

Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever win the major prizes to the extent we should with the defence and midfield we have, without at least one more quality forward option who can genuinely be rotated with them.

In another thread yesterday I ranked the squad 1-20. Just my opinion of course, but in that ranking our three back up forwards (including Shaqiri) were in the bottom 5 (16-20).

That kind of says it all, and whoever comes in needs to be a lot better, not just marginally better, than the backups we currently have.

That's true of others in those slots, the back up left back (Moreno) and back up attacking midfielder (Lallana).

The squad has moved on, it's competing at a higher level and although not everyone in the squad needs to be the same level, we need at least one viable rotation option in each department, and we need those at the lower end of the squad to be usable in a way those currently in those slots aren't.

You can't have two really strong and deep departments (albeit not perfect) and one department within which an injury or two would be an absolute catastrophe for the season.

If one of the front three were out for an extended period, as City have suffered this season, we'd be nowhere near the final reckoning in the CL and PL.

I can accept that last summer we spent on the defence and midfield, and even though we need to spend a bit more on those departments, this summer we have to really upgrade the depth of the forward squad.

Sorry for the long reply, but it's something I feel very strongly about and it really does frustrate me that the same issue that undermined us in Kiev (aside from the keeper of course), undermined us last night.
 

Limiescouse

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There is a breaking point for all players, but it has to be acknowledged that some players prefer to play a lot and perform better when they do. It isnt so simple as to think that our prospects are better if we can find a way to sit Mo and Mane for 10-15 games in a long season. It is better that we have the opportunity to than not, but actually making that change isnt the be all and end all.

However, I think the greater point is that you never know how the dynamic will change when you add a new quality player to the side. When Mo signed, people said the same thing about him - that it was a lot of money to pay for someone who will be behind Phil, Mane and Firmino. That's not how it worked out though. If we buy someone who can either play Bobby's role well, play down the left like Mane, or even a top quality number ten, it really is anyone's guess what the best XI will look like come the winter.
 

RedForever2014

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Just think about the weekend, and it struck me what a bastard of a decision Klopp has to make.

We’re still marginally in two competitions with the likelihood that we win neither. I’m sure that the players want to play Barca at home and I’m sure many of them have the self belief we can make a game of this.

But imagine if we throw everything at Barca, take our eye of the ball against Newcastle, and the Man City drop points.

Playing the odds I think we now have a greater chance of winning the league than the European Cup, and we have to prioritise Newcastle.
Firstly, we forget Wolves until next Wednesday. We have five days off before that.

We simply have to go all out to beat Newcastle, a tough away fixture, with the strongest available team. You can't field a weakened team from a squad that is already going to have to pick itself up after last night.

We still have a chance and we don't want City celebrating the title the night before we probably get eliminated from the CL.

The players will be up for Barce tired or not, and if there is still something to play for against Wolves at home they'll be up for that too.

It's tough with reduced midfield rotation options due to Keita, but we can keep one midfielder back for Tuesday. TAA will be fresh and the centre backs should be ok.

The forwards will just have to find a way to get through the two matches.
 

CymruRed

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Sorry for the long reply, but it's something I feel very strongly about and it really does frustrate me that the same issue that undermined us in Kiev (aside from the keeper of course), undermined us last night.

You obviously don't realise that this is a long term project and that we don't have Man City type funds to go building/completing our squad in 1 season,cos you keep going on about how we lack in this or that position or now we don't have depth in our forwards and it's cost us again.

It's like you think FSG and Klopp are holding back funds and not spending on positions that need strengthening on purpose.
 

Red_Jedi

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Interesting read on the various opinions of our attacking options.

You’ve got to remember that Klopp has studge, origi and Shaqiri as back ups, and he let ings and Solanke go.

In addition he’s got Lallana, ox and Brewster around...

Type of manager Klopp is, he backs the players he has - it’s easy to say now that studge, origi, Lallana are not good enough options for back up - but who is to know that they could have had a massive season - and add in Shaqiri And if Brewster gets a proper chance etc.

I trust in Klopp, but agree that the bench is usually not strong enough - and this summer should see better back up options.

But what’s been achieved this season is outstanding - with room to improve!
 

RedForever2014

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You obviously don't realise that this is a long term project and that we don't have Man City type funds to go building/completing our squad in 1 season,cos you keep going on about how we lack in this or that position or now we don't have depth in our forwards and it's cost us again.

It's like you think FSG and Klopp are holding back funds and not spending on positions that need strengthening on purpose.
We've been down this road before, you and I. You read what you want to read, rather than what I say.

1. In the long term we're all dead.
2. The long term has to actually start somewhere. It is not an ever moving horizon. Sooner or later you've got to actually win something to be seen as a serious force in football. City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal have won nearly all the domestic trophies since our own regular trophy winning days ended in 2006. They have also won the only European trophies won by English clubs in the past decade. We've had how many near misses in that time? Why is that? Why is it always us?
3. In the long term, by the time you've added all you need via your drip drip drip model, half the squad has got old and needs replacing.
4. We might not have City money, but a club with our turnover should have more to spend in the transfer market than £30m a season net. We've spent less than Everton net over the past few years.
5. Due to Klopp and Edwards, we've had much better value for what we have spent net than almost any other club, but just imagine what could be achieved if we went out and acquired player x,y or z too.

Let me reiterate - Klopp, Edwards and FSG have done great work, Klopp especially, Edwards increasingly, FSG belatedly (certainly commercially, jury still out on transfer activity until the net spend increases with the turnover and profit).

But, as we sit here today, we need to strengthen further.

We are nearly there, but nearly a quarter of the senior outfield playing staff cannot be played without the level of the side significantly dropping (Sturridge, Moreno, Origi etc.). A quarter of the senior outfield playing staff (VVD, Robertson, Bobby, Mo, Mane) cannot be rested at all without the level of the side significantly dropping.

We need to let Moreno, Sturridge, Lallana and Origi go, and add 3 or 4 quality players, including a couple of quality rotation options for the front three.

If we do that this summer, which we should be able to do if we are prepared to invest on top of incoming revenues for players like Ings/Clyne/Grujic/Lallana/Origi and possibly Lovren, then this squad will cross that line to become regularly trophy winners in the short term.

Winning something in the short term is the best way to feed the long term.

At the end of the day, I always defer back to the fact that a football career is short and we have many players in their prime.

Do we really want to miss the opportunity to add a few final pieces to a squad that is so very nearly there, and which has very little further possible improvement to make without those final pieces being added?

Furthermore, can we expect those players to stick around if we don't?

For all I care we can pick up two Bosman's and two Andy Robertson's, the point is we need to add 3 or 4 more pieces regardless of whether we can do that for next to nothing, or have to pay what it takes.

There is nothing more to say until the window opens.

In the meantime, let's hope that somehow, someway, we find ourselves with a trophy this season.
 

Limiescouse

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5. Due to Klopp and Edwards, we've had much better value for what we have spent net than almost any other club, but just imagine what could be achieved if we went out and acquired player x,y or z too.
I think this displays the limitation of your argument.

Money is not the only resource to consider when it comes to bringing in players. Klopp and the team have been incredibly measured in their approach to bringing in players and it means the number of failures has been minimal, probably only 1, and I think even that has unfortunate mitigating circumstances. Despite that measured approach he has still managed to completely overhaul the personnel, starting our second CL semi in 2 seasons with a side that included only 2 players he inherited, and one of those a kid with only a handful of appearances in an unfamiliar position. The team has done amazing work in the market and has been busy in every summer window. They know what is needed to improve the side further and their track record justifies confidence they will again do the right things in the summer.

Do we really want to miss the opportunity to add a few final pieces to a squad that is so very nearly there, and which has very little further possible improvement to make without those final pieces being added?
Given the above, it is absurd to position not having done even more in the market as you have done with that statement. Even more so given the difficulty you acknowledge in finding the right player to be able to push us forward from here. That is a reality that requires and even more measured approach not just a "well, we've still got 50 million in our pocket, lets go and find one more player" type approach.
 

RedForever2014

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I think this displays the limitation of your argument.

Money is not the only resource to consider when it comes to bringing in players. Klopp and the team have been incredibly measured in their approach to bringing in players and it means the number of failures has been minimal, probably only 1, and I think even that has unfortunate mitigating circumstances. Despite that measured approach he has still managed to completely overhaul the personnel, starting our second CL semi in 2 seasons with a side that included only 2 players he inherited, and one of those a kid with only a handful of appearances in an unfamiliar position. The team has done amazing work in the market and has been busy in every summer window. They know what is needed to improve the side further and their track record justifies confidence they will again do the right things in the summer.


Given the above, it is absurd to position not having done even more in the market as you have done with that statement. Even more so given the difficulty you acknowledge in finding the right player to be able to push us forward from here. That is a reality that requires and even more measured approach not just a "well, we've still got 50 million in our pocket, lets go and find one more player" type approach.
People constantly state that I am saying that we should spend for the sake of it, when I have never said that. People state that I am saying we should buy anyone we can rather than the right player, which I have never said.

I have merely said where we need to improve and that the club needs to find those players quick enough that those currently here don't get beyond their peak or decide to leave.

If that can be done for zero net spend nobody would be happier than me.

If it requires investment that should be possible given LFC's financial standing, I expect that investment to be made if the club is serious about success.

Everybody knows that I have a long held view that LFC will have financial limitations on net spending because of revenue extraction by our owners, money that would be spent if those restrictions were not in place, but which isn't entirely discernible yet because of the many players we had to move on and the odd top player who wanted to move on. This generated enough cash to net down the spend to date on the four or five players it was sensible to add each summer.

Whilst what has been done to date has been positive and completely understandable, what we do in future summers, when the opportunity to recoup monies will be less, will be indicative.

We need three or four players of the right quality this summer. Let's see what happens.
 

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Limiescouse

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People constantly state that I am saying that we should spend for the sake of it, when I have never said that. People state that I am saying we should buy anyone we can rather than the right player, which I have never said.

I have merely said where we need to improve and that the club needs to find those players quick enough that those currently here don't get beyond their peak or decide to leave.
If so many people so constantly mischaracterize your argument, maybe it is you who needs to step back and reconsider what you are saying.

You very unambiguously said in that post, and is something you have said over and over and over and over again, that the lack of money we have spent is a problem, not just because of the money but because it means we left players on the table who would have improved us. This criticism sometimes verges into accusations of incompetence. That is a very shortsighted (incorrect) assessment. It could be a relevant argument if we had been inactive in the market, but we haven't. There are numerous relevant, easy to identify reasons why we "stopped" at only 4 new senior players last summer, likewise the summer before.

Furthermore, you use this lack of spending and unwillingness to have not done more in each window as a suggestion that we're not taking seriously the challenge and as a cause for skepticism of what we will do in the subsequent windows.
 
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Flobs

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So when all 4 are fit unless you are buying Messi who starts as your front 3? It's Salah, Firmino, Mane.

I understand they will get games via rotation, but our 3 hardly get injured so my point still stands someone is coming in as 4th choice.
Why isn't it 2nd choice for 3 positions?
With rotation that should be tantalising for a good up and coming player.
 

CymruRed

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We've been down this road before, you and I. You read what you want to read, rather than what I say.

1. In the long term we're all dead.
2. The long term has to actually start somewhere. It is not an ever moving horizon. Sooner or later you've got to actually win something to be seen as a serious force in football. City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal have won nearly all the domestic trophies since our own regular trophy winning days ended in 2006. They have also won the only European trophies won by English clubs in the past decade. We've had how many near misses in that time? Why is that? Why is it always us?
3. In the long term, by the time you've added all you need via your drip drip drip model, half the squad has got old and needs replacing.
4. We might not have City money, but a club with our turnover should have more to spend in the transfer market than £30m a season net. We've spent less than Everton net over the past few years.
5. Due to Klopp and Edwards, we've had much better value for what we have spent net than almost any other club, but just imagine what could be achieved if we went out and acquired player x,y or z too.

Let me reiterate - Klopp, Edwards and FSG have done great work, Klopp especially, Edwards increasingly, FSG belatedly (certainly commercially, jury still out on transfer activity until the net spend increases with the turnover and profit).

But, as we sit here today, we need to strengthen further.

We are nearly there, but nearly a quarter of the senior outfield playing staff cannot be played without the level of the side significantly dropping (Sturridge, Moreno, Origi etc.). A quarter of the senior outfield playing staff (VVD, Robertson, Bobby, Mo, Mane) cannot be rested at all without the level of the side significantly dropping.

We need to let Moreno, Sturridge, Lallana and Origi go, and add 3 or 4 quality players, including a couple of quality rotation options for the front three.

If we do that this summer, which we should be able to do if we are prepared to invest on top of incoming revenues for players like Ings/Clyne/Grujic/Lallana/Origi and possibly Lovren, then this squad will cross that line to become regularly trophy winners in the short term.

Winning something in the short term is the best way to feed the long term.

At the end of the day, I always defer back to the fact that a football career is short and we have many players in their prime.

Do we really want to miss the opportunity to add a few final pieces to a squad that is so very nearly there, and which has very little further possible improvement to make without those final pieces being added?

Furthermore, can we expect those players to stick around if we don't?

For all I care we can pick up two Bosman's and two Andy Robertson's, the point is we need to add 3 or 4 more pieces regardless of whether we can do that for next to nothing, or have to pay what it takes.

There is nothing more to say until the window opens.

In the meantime, let's hope that somehow, someway, we find ourselves with a trophy this season.

Mate,i read and take in everything you say,i don't cherry pick a paragraph and dismiss the rest,i know what your saying and how your saying it,there's no misunderstanding on my part but you keep saying the same thing,without taking on board,how Klopp,Edwards and FSG work on transfers and have done for the past 3 seasons,this isn't going to change because of your opinion.

We scout our players well,so there is no mistakes on the players brought in and wasting much needed cash on rushed purchases or 3rd/4th choice players just to add squad depth,these are normally our first choice targets for the right money within our budget,with the right mind set and skills to be at our club,on and off the pitch.To get these types of players and the amount we needed to rebuild our squad takes time,it takes seasons..SEASONS.(unless your Man city and you do it in one or 2 and break FFP rules,also unlike us,they don't need to sell players to make money,they just add quality ontop of quality)

Reality
Year 1 offload deadwood,add Matip,Wijnaldum,Mane
Year 2 offload deadwood,add Robertson,VVD,Robertson,Salah
Year 3 offload deadwood,add Alisson,Fabinho,Keita,Shaqir

Give or take a few players i didn't list that were brought in and re-sold,it's taken us 3 years to almost change our first team and offload a huge amount of deadwood,this season you'd expect us to offload almost all of the deadwood left and bring in quality players to compete with our starting 11,which will then give us the squad depth your asking for.

This is whats happened at the club,this is the long term plan Klopp told us about,and this is how our team has been built for an amazing amount of money,all done within FFP and we are competing in the Premiership and Champions league,plus our team isn't even finished yet.Like Klopp said,this is just the start.Our core squad are signed to long term contracts,they love training and playing together,they want to play in the Premiership and achieve winning titles here,the foundations are strong and the future looks bright.

Why you feel the need to have a bash at our transfer dealings at the arse end of the season (when we've gone above and beyond in the transfer window,although you don't think so),when we can't do anything about it atm,is madness,it's like your saying " i told you so,i said in the summer and all season,we need squad depth".No shit sherlock,we all know what we need,we just have to wait for it to be built,something you obviously can't do.
 

Limiescouse

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Aye, if you get someone in good enough it becomes any 4 from 3, given how flexible all 3 of them are, allowing for cyclical rotation. It is also not unreasonable to find a way to add a 4th forward to the side for some games.
 

Kopstar

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Our Premier League Squad when Klopp joined v Now

Green = Better, Red = Worse, No colour = no view/the same

...............................Goalkeepers
Mignolet..................................................Alisson
Bogdan....................................................Mignolet
Ward.........................................................Kelleher
Fulton.......................................................Grabara

...............................Defenders
Clyne.........................................................Trent Alexander-Arnold
Enrique.....................................................Robertson
Toure.........................................................Matip
Lovren.......................................................Lovren
Gomez......................................................Gomez
Sakho........................................................Van Dijk
Moreno....................................................Moreno
Skrtel.........................................................Phillips
Flanagan..................................................Clyne (out on loan)
Smith.........................................................Larouci/Lewis

...............................Midfielders
Milner........................................................Milner
Coutinho..................................................Keita
Firmino.....................................................Firmino (now a forward)
Henderson..............................................Henderson
Lallana......................................................Lallana
Lucas.........................................................Fabinho
Can............................................................Oxlade-Chamberlain
Allen..........................................................Shaqiri
Ibe..............................................................Wilson (out on loan)

.................................Forwards
Benteke....................................................Salah
Sturridge..................................................Sturridge
Origi...........................................................Origi
Ings............................................................Mane

Where I'm comparing the same player I've gone green if they're better than they were in 2015 (eg Gomez) and red if they've declined (eg Lallana).
 
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Iluvatar

Allez Allez Allez
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
7,068
Why isn't it 2nd choice for 3 positions?
With rotation that should be tantalising for a good up and coming player.
It's still 2nd choice, anyway my point was simply it just adds a complexity to the search. We must have a very small pool already, adding further constraints to that search is potentially why we didn't go for anyone else after missing on Fekir (or we got turned down). Note - this was actually what I was responding to i.e. Looking at reasons why we didn't sign depth for up front when Fekir fell through.

Coming in as a 2nd choice is why Brandt turned us down already.
 



Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
8,022
It's still 2nd choice, anyway my point was simply it just adds a complexity to the search. We must have a very small pool already, adding further constraints to that search is potentially why we didn't go for anyone else after missing on Fekir (or we got turned down). Note - this was actually what I was responding to i.e. Looking at reasons why we didn't sign depth for up front when Fekir fell through.

Coming in as a 2nd choice is why Brandt turned us down already.
Didn't we plum for a cheap option in Shaquiri?
Hasn't worked out well or has it but then so cheap it doesn't matter (good stop gap however you look at it).
We definitely need to bring in 1 more reliable option here imo. Origi covers all the positions in one way or another but for me isn't reliable. :-)
 

Dane

NEXT!
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
6,518
I wasn't referring to you as you seem to have undergone a major online personality change in recent weeks which is very welcome. I was referring to umpteen people in this thread and the post match. The closer you get to some kind of major success the greater the pain of failure. We are competing at an elite level now and so the expectations are getting higher. I think some people would be happier if we were scrapping for top 4 and putting all our eggs in the Carabao Cup.

What is happening under Klopp is extraordinary and in years to come we will look back on this as a golden era, hopefully something that kicks off a period of dominance both domestically and in Europe, but it may not happen and I think one of the greatest risks of that comes from within. It's our lack of patience and perspective that could create a negative narrative around a season where there should be only positive things to say. Once these things start they are hard to stop and the consequences are obvious and inevitable.
Wednesday night threw up a disproportionate result, no way were they 3 goals better than us.
I have no major issues with anything Klopp did on Wednesday.
On another night (Tuesday hopefully) we'd have done this lot, it was a game of rare sightings and near misses.
VDV switched off a couple of times, which doesn't happen at all, never mind too often.
Mane and Salah missed glorious chances.
And despite being told otherwise by a much better supporter than myself, if Gomez had moved his head the same distance towards the ball as he moved it away from the ball, Messis free kick would have been deflected wide.

No way should Klopp be heavily criticised, he's continuing to do a fantastic job as our manager.

Having said all that, you do get a slight feeling of inevitability when you're 3-0 down and the man coming on to salvage something is Origi.