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Jürgen Klopp: 2018 - 2019

Kopstar

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Times also picking up on the interview Klopp gave to Kicker, saying a sabbatical most likely at the end of his contract with Liverpool. Hopefully someone will point out that the end of June 2022 isn't a full seven years so he really ought to do at least one more season before he takes that break.
 


Billy Biskix

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This really shouldn't be an issue at all with three years left to run. All this started with an interview Tom Werner gave on the eve of the CL when rather than just dead bat a question about JK's contract he started talking about him staying for as long as he likes. That's probably true but it's an odd thing for a chairman to say and led to a load of stories about a new contract being on the table. Mel Reddy then spiked it all by referring to the sabbatical and Klopp not wanting to be put under pressure to extend. So a big story was suddenly created over something that should have been in-house and wasn't even particularly relevant with so much time left on his existing contract.

I can see JK getting fed up with being asked about it so the best way of ending it all is just to tell the media he's off at the end of the contract. Still gives him room to change his mind. He's best mates with Mike Gordon so it's not like he needs to call a meeting to discuss his contract. Anyway, three years is an eternity in football and it's far too early to be succession planning. Ljinders may be an excellent coach but he was sacked after just 4 months in his last managerial job. Gerrard is manager of a club that's in one of the weakest leagues in Europe. The landscape may look very different in 3 years time. We might have won multiple PLs and CLs or we might have completely imploded. Who knows? When the time comes to replace Klopp we will need to get the best available manager for the job, just as we did last time round. In the meantime just savour every second of us being brilliant for as long as it lasts.
 

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This really shouldn't be an issue at all with three years left to run. All this started with an interview Tom Werner gave on the eve of the CL when rather than just dead bat a question about JK's contract he started talking about him staying for as long as he likes. That's probably true but it's an odd thing for a chairman to say and led to a load of stories about a new contract being on the table. Mel Reddy then spiked it all by referring to the sabbatical and Klopp not wanting to be put under pressure to extend. So a big story was suddenly created over something that should have been in-house and wasn't even particularly relevant with so much time left on his existing contract.

I can see JK getting fed up with being asked about it so the best way of ending it all is just to tell the media he's off at the end of the contract. Still gives him room to change his mind. He's best mates with Mike Gordon so it's not like he needs to call a meeting to discuss his contract. Anyway, three years is an eternity in football and it's far too early to be succession planning. Ljinders may be an excellent coach but he was sacked after just 4 months in his last managerial job. Gerrard is manager of a club that's in one of the weakest leagues in Europe. The landscape may look very different in 3 years time. We might have won multiple PLs and CLs or we might have completely imploded. Who knows? When the time comes to replace Klopp we will need to get the best available manager for the job, just as we did last time round. In the meantime just savour every second of us being brilliant for as long as it lasts.
Tom Werner running his mouth off? I simply don’t believe it....
 



nikz200

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I disagree. Even in a modern structure, the manager's role is absolutely critical to the success of the club. Yes, having a good support structure around him is important but if you take the manager out of that equation, the whole thing often falls like a house of cards.
I didn't say you don't need a great manager, but the concern was being directed at transfers or the notion that players will only transfer to the club if the manager is Jurgen. There are other things, but i don't think transfers will be the main problem with Jurgen leaving.
 

lfc.eddie

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Have a question to the people who have been following us since around 70s - 80s, what was our feeling back then when the likes of Paisley or Kenny would have decided to move on? We may not be this nervous, considering it was an era of success but did it occur to us that things may fall apart?
Aren't we placed in a similar position of continuity and what is different now than then?
The biggest difference is the success we had and the arrogance built around it as fans during that era. I won’t dwell on them tragic events but when Dalglish packed and leave, there is this sense of “we're too good to not keep winning title with anyone at the helm". Not until we saw the wheel came off and by the time it was a little too late. Even then, nobody expected it to last for more than 2 decades.

In terms of continuity, I don't think we are in similar position to when Shankly handed the key to Paisley and so on. I just don't see it from the rest of the backroom staff in this current coaches. We would like to assume we are with Ljinders, but as I said before, if the man is any good NEC would never have parted ways with him.
 

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We would like to assume we are with Ljinders, but as I said before, if the man is any good NEC would never have parted ways with him.
That’s an over-simplistic view of Ljinders in my opinion.

Maybe it was too early for him? Maybe there were other issues, and there was too much to address.

There might be a world of difference between going to NEC and stepping into a purring set up at LFC.
 

lfc.eddie

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That’s an over-simplistic view of Ljinders in my opinion.

Maybe it was too early for him? Maybe there were other issues, and there was too much to address.

There might be a world of difference between going to NEC and stepping into a purring set up at LFC.
One might argue the same about our former managers that had so much promised and couldn't deliver (did deliver 2nd spot at the back of having a monster of a player). You may rate the guy highly (or quote Klopp about how good he is for sure...), but I stood by my opinion, no matter how simpleton it may sound.
 

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One might argue the same about our former managers that had so much promised and couldn't deliver (did deliver 2nd spot at the back of having a monster of a player). You may rate the guy highly (or quote Klopp about how good he is for sure...), but I stood by my opinion, no matter how simpleton it may sound.
Yes, you could. But let’s not forget Rodgers actively worked against the structures in place at the club, refusing to work with players that he hadn’t bought himself, and flitting from one idea of football to the next, in search of short term results. Rodgers is a decent manager, but he is much more suited to a three year cycle at a club with a short term aim.

On Ljinders, he is a unknown quantity but we do know that he is incredibly highly rated at the club. At my point is that his time at NEC might not be reflective of the job he could do at LFC, where he would be stepping in to a club where all the elements are working very well. I don’t think that’s the case for all managers, especially those that cling to British idea that they have to control everything and do everything their way.
 



Danny_

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Here is the quote:

"
"If I decide for myself that I can't go on anymore, I'll take a break and in that year I'd have to make a definite decision [over my career].
"I have absolute energy, but I have one problem; I can't do 'a little bit.' I can only do 'all or nothing.'
"But the chances are very high that my energy levels will go up again [after a year's break], and that I can then do the job the way I want to."

They seem to have added in the bit - after a year's break. All he seems to be saying is that if a point comes that he doesn't think that he has the energy he feels to do the job, he will take a break. That is fair enough and does not necessarily mean he will leave in 3 years time.
 

Billy Biskix

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Have a question to the people who have been following us since around 70s - 80s, what was our feeling back then when the likes of Paisley or Kenny would have decided to move on? We may not be this nervous, considering it was an era of success but did it occur to us that things may fall apart?
Aren't we placed in a similar position of continuity and what is different now than then?
When Shanks left it felt like the end of the world. I was just a kid but it didn't seem possible that we could carry on in the same way. To me Shankly was Liverpool. I think the fact that Sir Bob came in and was even more successful led to us simply believing that the legacy would continue and that whoever was promoted from the ranks of the Boot Room would be steeped in the Liverpool Way and know exactly what needed to be done in any given situation.

When we opted for KD after Fagan it came as a bit of a shock because it was a departure from that. He was still a player and an important one but although he was heavily guided initially eventually he put his own stamp on our play. It felt like we'd moved forward and adapted, playing more expansive and entertaining football than ever. The problem with finding a replacement for KD was that he left suddenly, Ronnie Moran didn't want it and there was no time to groom a successor. He also left at a time when there were a few issues in the team. It was getting older and injury prone and needed an overhaul. Big task for anyone coming in. I was fully on board with the Souness appointment. I'd never really warmed to him but he was a winner and had worked wonders at Rangers. Turned out to be the worst appointment we could have made.

JK has only been at the club for 4 years so you can't really compare the situations. He also has at least 3 years to go so predicting outcomes now is impossible. I think football has moved on, the manager's job is very different and the idea of simply promoting someone from within the ranks expecting them to do as well as someone like Klopp is wildly optimistic, particularly if that person has no experience of actually managing at this level.

Klopp is unique. He has the perfect combination of tactical and emotional intelligence. The latter is critical to his success. So not just a hard act to follow, an impossible one and whoever comes in will have to have the confidence and experience to manage the team in his own way.
 

Incognito

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Yep, one successful example I can think of in recent times is Tito Vilanova taking over from Pep at Barca. But that can be due to the players as well (the core of the team never changed), so IMO the continuity needs to be from all other perspective - players, transfer set up, vision, etc. to have the least impact during the transition. Very very difficult!
 

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As highly rated as Lijnders clearly is I just haven't been able to warm to him. I know he's innovative and is extremely adept at implementing training sessions that keep the players interested and stimulated (I'm always seeing something new when I watch the training videos) but I think that's where he excels. I'm not sure he's got the attributes to be a manager, whereas he's clearly a brilliant assistant/no.2. To be a manager you need to be able to be detached slightly from the players whereas for Lijnders to excel at the training processes he sets up he has to be a lot more intimately involved. Maybe he'll prove me wrong but I still can't shake this weird feeling that he's...creepy. There, I said it.
 

lfc.eddie

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Yes, you could. But let’s not forget Rodgers actively worked against the structures in place at the club, refusing to work with players that he hadn’t bought himself, and flitting from one idea of football to the next, in search of short term results. Rodgers is a decent manager, but he is much more suited to a three year cycle at a club with a short term aim.

On Ljinders, he is a unknown quantity but we do know that he is incredibly highly rated at the club. At my point is that his time at NEC might not be reflective of the job he could do at LFC, where he would be stepping in to a club where all the elements are working very well. I don’t think that’s the case for all managers, especially those that cling to British idea that they have to control everything and do everything their way.
Highly rated as first team coach, there’s a huge difference these days in the modern game. The elements that are working so well in the club also revolves heavily on the current man in charge. I am not going to assume that how we are working so well today has a lot to do with the “structure” we have implemented. The director of football idea isn’t being revolutionised by the owners. It’s been around.
 



Zoran

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Meulensteen also had a high reputation, but failed when he tried to be manager. This is all possible, but at this very moment just material for articles and something to ramble about. 3 years can be a lot, a lot of time in football. A lot of stuff can change, appear, disappear. We'll see when we get there.
 

Quagmire81

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Klopp is here to stay for as long as he wants, but he won't stay forever. In the mean time Gerrard will continue to become a better and better manager and eventually he will be the one to take over and win himself that precious EPL medal he never got as a player.
 

treboeth

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Here is the quote:

"
"If I decide for myself that I can't go on anymore, I'll take a break and in that year I'd have to make a definite decision [over my career].
"I have absolute energy, but I have one problem; I can't do 'a little bit.' I can only do 'all or nothing.'
"But the chances are very high that my energy levels will go up again [after a year's break], and that I can then do the job the way I want to."

They seem to have added in the bit - after a year's break. All he seems to be saying is that if a point comes that he doesn't think that he has the energy he feels to do the job, he will take a break. That is fair enough and does not necessarily mean he will leave in 3 years time.
So you're saying he's leaving us tomorrow ;-)

Fucking media love to create click bait BS about us.
 

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Highly rated as first team coach, there’s a huge difference these days in the modern game.
Yeah, and a big difference between managing NEC and Managing Liverpool. That’s literally all I’m saying.
 



lfc.eddie

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Yeah, and a big difference between managing NEC and Managing Liverpool. That’s literally all I’m saying.
I know, if you can't hack it in small club you would think we wouldn't fully trust him to do it with the big guns, no? Gerrard is doing a decent job in Scotland, I wouldn't trust him to take over our club either...
 

mattyhurst

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If it's 3 years it's 3 years, the quote above seems to suggest why he wouldn't commit to a long term contract. He would probably only know the summer before. If the club is happy with that then that is fine. What was his Dortmund contract when he resigned?

If it was long term it would explain a lot, I still think he will stay until he knows the club can go forward without him. His European Cup last year will have taken a lot of pressure off him I believe. Seems to have done that to the team as well. Plus it was what he promised in the first few weeks here, that he would win a big trophy. He did.
 

Danny_

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When Shanks left it felt like the end of the world. I was just a kid but it didn't seem possible that we could carry on in the same way. To me Shankly was Liverpool. I think the fact that Sir Bob came in and was even more successful led to us simply believing that the legacy would continue and that whoever was promoted from the ranks of the Boot Room would be steeped in the Liverpool Way and know exactly what needed to be done in any given situation.

When we opted for KD after Fagan it came as a bit of a shock because it was a departure from that. He was still a player and an important one but although he was heavily guided initially eventually he put his own stamp on our play. It felt like we'd moved forward and adapted, playing more expansive and entertaining football than ever. The problem with finding a replacement for KD was that he left suddenly, Ronnie Moran didn't want it and there was no time to groom a successor. He also left at a time when there were a few issues in the team. It was getting older and injury prone and needed an overhaul. Big task for anyone coming in. I was fully on board with the Souness appointment. I'd never really warmed to him but he was a winner and had worked wonders at Rangers. Turned out to be the worst appointment we could have made.

JK has only been at the club for 4 years so you can't really compare the situations. He also has at least 3 years to go so predicting outcomes now is impossible. I think football has moved on, the manager's job is very different and the idea of simply promoting someone from within the ranks expecting them to do as well as someone like Klopp is wildly optimistic, particularly if that person has no experience of actually managing at this level.

Klopp is unique. He has the perfect combination of tactical and emotional intelligence. The latter is critical to his success. So not just a hard act to follow, an impossible one and whoever comes in will have to have the confidence and experience to manage the team in his own way.
It was different back in those days though. When Kenny took over, we were the number one destination for most players in England so it was easier. He did a fantastic job creating that team of the late 80s but he had it easier than what Klopp has. It was also pre-Bosnam ruling so he did not have to deal with agents being cunts and player power. He also did not have to fight off oil baron clubs that can outspend you if they need to. Also, there were almost no foreigners in the game so being able to handle different cultures was not so important.

If anything, I'd say that the manager role is even more important in the modern era than it was back then and in some ways, it is more difficult. That's why finding a really great manager is hard. I was like you - fully on board with the Souness move until I saw what he did in the transfer market. But at that point, it was too late. That's what worries me about this talk of Gerrard. I see absolutely nothing in his personality that says he will be a top manager. And like Souness did, he is managing in Scotland right now. The Scottish league is even weaker than what it was back in the day that Souness had success there. If Klopp ever does leave, Gerrard should not be the first choice replacement (unless he proves himself between then and now - winning the Scottish league these days doesn't count for proving yourself so he will have to move somewhere else to do this).

Anyway, all that JK said is that if he doesn't feel like he has the energy to do the job properly in 3 years time, he would take a break. I see no problem with this.
 

Limiescouse

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As highly rated as Lijnders clearly is I just haven't been able to warm to him. I know he's innovative and is extremely adept at implementing training sessions that keep the players interested and stimulated (I'm always seeing something new when I watch the training videos) but I think that's where he excels. I'm not sure he's got the attributes to be a manager, whereas he's clearly a brilliant assistant/no.2. To be a manager you need to be able to be detached slightly from the players whereas for Lijnders to excel at the training processes he sets up he has to be a lot more intimately involved.
Yep. In the modern game, the two roles are completely different. There is almost nothing about success in one that indicates one would be successful in the other.
 

Mascot88

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I know, if you can't hack it in small club you would think we wouldn't fully trust him to do it with the big guns, no? Gerrard is doing a decent job in Scotland, I wouldn't trust him to take over our club either...
Where’s that Picard meme?
 



Zinedine Biscan

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Where’s that Picard meme?
I didn't link it as it was half-hidden behind a paywall, but there was an article on the Echo the other day about Pep, and from the segment I was able to read it sounded like one of the major reasons he wasn't successful at NEC was that he tried to put Klopp's system in place from day 1, and while they started well the players weren't physically up to the job and ultimately fatigue hit them.

He obviously wouldn't come up against the same issue taking over a team that had been playing Klopp's football for seven years.

Also worth noting that while he was let go, it was because they missed out on promotion (which was the goal he was set), it wasn't like he was an abject failure there.

Here's the piece FWIW:

 

lfc.eddie

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from the segment I was able to read it sounded like one of the major reasons he wasn't successful at NEC was that he tried to put Klopp's system in place from day 1, and while they started well the players weren't physically up to the job and ultimately fatigue hit them.
From what I was told from fans of the club, he tried to instill his way ignoring the advice of others and abit too full of himself. It depends on where you hear or read the stories from, but mine was from someone local (working for me in Holland) who gave me the low down on how he's being perceived in the club and around it. Full of himself is what they mentioned and I am never a fan of someone like that - we had one.
 

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This was my point and the one Eddie missed. Regardless of the size of the job, a coach would surely have a greater chance of success by transitioning into a new role replacing his mentor, using familiar methods and already versed in the structures at the club, than going somewhere and trying to put it all in from scratch.

One of the few things Rodgers said which wasn’t blarney, was his thing about building an aeroplane while it’s already flying. Very true. At LFC the plane is already built for Ljinders. Another coach, with new methods and different plans might find it a bit trickier to get a new plane built.
 

Kopstar

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This was my point and the one Eddie missed. Regardless of the size of the job, a coach would surely have a greater chance of success by transitioning into a new role replacing his mentor, using familiar methods and already versed in the structures at the club, than going somewhere and trying to put it all in from scratch.

One of the few things Rodgers said which wasn’t blarney, was his thing about building an aeroplane while it’s already flying. Very true. At LFC the plane is already built for Ljinders. Another coach, with new methods and different plans might find it a bit trickier to get a new plane built.
Wasn't Rodgers quoting Dalglish? I've got this odd feeling that he was either quoting or referencing Dalglish when he said that.

True though.
 

lfc.eddie

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This was my point and the one Eddie missed. Regardless of the size of the job, a coach would surely have a greater chance of success by transitioning into a new role replacing his mentor, using familiar methods and already versed in the structures at the club, than going somewhere and trying to put it all in from scratch.

One of the few things Rodgers said which wasn’t blarney, was his thing about building an aeroplane while it’s already flying. Very true. At LFC the plane is already built for Ljinders. Another coach, with new methods and different plans might find it a bit trickier to get a new plane built.
How did that work out for him?

Also, I didn't miss any of your point, simple as you may think my view is, being a good coach don't usually translate to becoming a good manager. Especially not the club the size of ours. While you might bring up the 70s and 80s era where our bootroom boys succeeded their bosses (well modern football is different, no longer the British backward model some told me), how many of esteemed assistant manager took over from their boss and flourish you could recall?