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Jadon Sancho (RW) Borussia Dortmund

Noo Noo

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Dropping world record fees on a goalkeeper and defender made sense because there was a clear urgent need in the first team to get the very best available for those positions.

You’re talking about buying a squad player - someone to cover Mane and Salah.

Signing Van Dijk and Alisson were exceptional moves, rather than something we should expect to be repeated.

Of the four names mentioned regularly - Mbappe, Sancho, Havertz and Werner - it’s Werner who makes most sense. He is versatile - able to play anywhere across the front three, available at a reasonable price and already used to our style of play through his time at Leipzig. We already have a good relationship with the club, who you’d imagine would be keen to keep him away from Bayern.

Havertz and Sancho who be 100m signings, and I don’t think the club go there unless they are trying to replace a key player.
Enormous amount of logic in this post. (y)

I do like the sound of Havertz but I have a weakness for creative midfielders. Seeing someone tear a team apart from midfield is a real joy to watch. But I agree Werner makes the most sense., he's be more than useful too when you consider the rotation and tactical connotations (my word of the day) from having him in the squad.

It doesn't help Origi much but I think it's up to him to prove his worth.
 

Iluvatar

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Dropping world record fees on a goalkeeper and defender made sense because there was a clear urgent need in the first team to get the very best available for those positions.

You’re talking about buying a squad player - someone to cover Mane and Salah.

Signing Van Dijk and Alisson were exceptional moves, rather than something we should expect to be repeated.

Of the four names mentioned regularly - Mbappe, Sancho, Havertz and Werner - it’s Werner who makes most sense. He is versatile - able to play anywhere across the front three, available at a reasonable price and already used to our style of play through his time at Leipzig. We already have a good relationship with the club, who you’d imagine would be keen to keep him away from Bayern.

Havertz and Sancho who be 100m signings, and I don’t think the club go there unless they are trying to replace a key player.
You are probably right and as I said previously the cynic in my think we're being used to drive up the price.

However the romantic in me does see how it could work, could see how we easily have the money for him, see how with Salah potentially missing around to 12 games due to the Olympics and AFCON and Mane missing 6 games due to the AFCON we do need a player who is at their ability or close to.. Origi is not that player.

We've hardly spent anything for awhile, as Nikola says we could raise around £70mil from fringe players, so dropping £100mil on a player who whilst won't be an automatic starter would come straight in and become part of a world class attacking group of players.

It's City 17/18 levels of depth.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Dropping world record fees on a goalkeeper and defender made sense because there was a clear urgent need in the first team to get the very best available for those positions.

You’re talking about buying a squad player - someone to cover Mane and Salah.

Signing Van Dijk and Alisson were exceptional moves, rather than something we should expect to be repeated.
Ok I'm getting Deja Vu but suffice it to say me and you disagree. Not only do I think adding a fourth top level forward (particularly one that can play the same way as Salah and Mane) is addressing a clear, urgent, need for the squad but I also believe it (with the possible exception of cover at LB) is the only remaining need in the squad. It's going to be an even bigger need with AFCON next year.

I am doing no such thing. Just like Salah was not a squad player and nor were any of Mane, Coutinho N Firmino (the planned four attackers and all working great for the half a season we had them). None of those 4 were a squad player. None of VvD, Gomez and Matip are squad players. None of Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum or Ox are squad players now Ox is fully recovered and starting nearly every game. You know that after the first 11 the rest aren't squad players.

This season I'm sure I saw the other day that we have yet to have started a game with Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Salah, Firmino and Mane. Our supposed starting 11.

And I don't see how or why they will be exceptional. We will likely only ever need to buy one or two senior players a season from now on. We make more money than ever and as academy kids come through limited senior players will move on for decent money thanks to Edwards. When we need to add to the squad from now on we can and probably will add the very best players on the planet for our needs. Whatever price they will be. If the best is cheap or free we will do that but if they're expensive we can do that too without harming ourselves or holding ourselves back in other areas.
 

Nikola

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Outgoing players get the wages down as well. 100M is affordable , Whether he's worth that amount, that's another matter. There's a definite English Premium price which is being added here. Don't think we need to splurge just for the sake of having a british talent in. Liverpool spend when they have the right fit for the team. That's what we've seen with Edwards and Klopp.
And losing Lallana's £150k from the wage bill could basically cover his wage.
I didn't want to go into those details but you're both right, Clyne, Lallana and Shaqiri will probably make up for some 200-250K per week from the next summer. Also, Lovren will likely be replaced and he's on something like 100K per week, I doubt his replacement will get that much. However, even if Liverpool spend 100 million pounds on a kid like Sancho, there's no way he'll get 100K per week - if he wants money, then he should go to Man United.

Don't get me wrong. We have the money. But as you say, it would be uncharacteristic for the club to acquire potential for that kind of fee. Sancho is a talented lad, but not by any means the finished product. One and a half good season so far isn't enough to pass a full judgment. Add to this some lingering doubts about his mentality, and... nah, I can't see it.

Potential will be looked at of course, and moves like the one for Minamino done. As it should be. But this kind of mega-money will be reserved for the finished product. Or for a new stadium expansion, haha!..
I think that, in Sancho's case, that's plenty of time to pass judgement on his footballing ability. The kid literally has everything a winger playing in Klopp's system should have: pace, fitness, skill, fearlessness, end product. I'd be more worried about these reports about his lack of discipline but these things can get exaggerated, we'll see. Provided Liverpool are indeed interested in him, of course. At this moment, I'd have him over Werner even if he cost almost twice as much but that's mainly because I don't see a winger who'd be a viable and less expensive alternative to Mane and Salah (Chukwueze perhaps but he'd also cost as much as Werner and I don't think he's that calibre). Werner, after all, is a striker and I hope that Minamino will be the guy to rival Firmino for the starting spot in that role.
 

gr_sounder

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Have to only look at Pulisic and his problems in Chelsea so far. Yes, He's not had Klopp to improve him , But spending big amounts on unproven talent can often backfire. Pulisic might come good but he'll have a fight on to start justifying his price tag. Same goes for Dembele.
Pulisic may not be a good one to compare.
1. He was not bought by Lampard so Frank had no real push to put him in right away
2. He has been injured for the last couple months but did well for the matches he had been playing
3. Chelsea is a disjointed team who is trying to rely on Mason Mount who is still developing and Tommy Abraham who came on quick and was annointed the best new thing, but is really limited in what he can do.

Pulisic has had some problems so far, but due to the situation at Chelsea and the injury that has kept him out for months during his first season with the club, it's not really a good person to use as a comparison.

Heck, Naby Keita is just now coming good, and he was a much more proven talent.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Pulisic may not be a good one to compare.
1. He was not bought by Lampard so Frank had no real push to put him in right away
2. He has been injured for the last couple months but did well for the matches he had been playing
3. Chelsea is a disjointed team who is trying to rely on Mason Mount who is still developing and Tommy Abraham who came on quick and was annointed the best new thing, but is really limited in what he can do.

Pulisic has had some problems so far, but due to the situation at Chelsea and the injury that has kept him out for months during his first season with the club, it's not really a good person to use as a comparison.

Heck, Naby Keita is just now coming good, and he was a much more proven talent.
Don't really think it's fair to compare Pulisic and Sancho anyway. Pulisic played 90 Bundesliga games and only scored 13 goals. In total there he had a goal or assist every 166 minutes. Sancho already has 25 goals in 65 league games. A goal or assist every 87 minutes whilst there. Pulisic was bought on pure potential, a good player who could be great. You can definitely make an argument that Sancho is already a great player who could become one of the best on the planet.
 

Prolix

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As tenuous as I think it might be to draw conclusions from July 2017 - January 2018, two things seem obvious:

1. Salah was clearly signed to be a starter. He played in 36 of 28 games for which he was available, 85% of minutes. (Mané played 92% of available minutes in his first season with Liverpool.) This obviously cannot be offered to a new forward.

2. Coutinho mostly played in midfield for those 6 months. Since then we have signed both Fabinho and Keïta and lost no other midfielders. Again it seems to me that Klopp was making a tactical concession to get Coutinho into the side by 'carrying' him in midfield. Perhaps a nice concession to have to make, but it doesn't seem like part of Klopp/Lijnders' vision.

Likewise, both Alisson and van Dijk were signed to be immediate starters in their respective positions. I don't think you can call a 4th choice forward a "clear, urgent need" in the same vein as Alisson and VVD without stretching the meanings of "clear" and "urgent".*

For the amount of money that we're talking, I would expect Sancho would want to be guaranteed meaningful playing time and imo that's not something we're in a position to offer. A few games at a time during AFCON + random cup ties doesn't sound particularly appealing to me if Salah is staying. From Liverpool's perspective, that's a lot of money to spend on a contingency against long-term injury. Could it be succession planning to get out in front of a major departure before it becomes imminent? Maybe...

I don't like this Werner rumour for a number of reasons but at least the price is within the realm of the new rationality. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but none of the logic adds up for me and I believe signing Sancho would represent a significant shift in strategy. Which might be precisely what you're floating, ARD. ;) But I don't think it's supported by the evidence of our past transfers.**




*Also I'm not letting go of the Minamino thing.
**I also think the situation is different if both Shaqiri and Origi leave.
 

redfanman

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As tenuous as I think it might be to draw conclusions from July 2017 - January 2018, two things seem obvious:

1. Salah was clearly signed to be a starter. He played in 36 of 28 games for which he was available, 85% of minutes. (Mané played 92% of available minutes in his first season with Liverpool.) This obviously cannot be offered to a new forward.
I dont know if we can say this as we dont know what would have happened had Coutinho not made a song and dance about Barcelona.

Could Coutinho have started the season as the third forward, or would we have shifted him to midfield to accomodate his wishes of playing in midfield for a move to Barca the following summer?
 

Prolix

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I dont know if we can say this as we dont know what would have happened had Coutinho not made a song and dance about Barcelona.
[...]
Coutinho's playing time as a forward came only when Mané was suspended, injured, or rested.
 

Red over the water

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Mbappe or Sancho make the most sense from the playing side. Very fast, goals, assists. Obviously Mbappe would need some sort of Nike boost due to the anticipated price, but he looks like he will be the best player in the world for the next decade.

Sancho won't be too far behind, if he fulfills his potential. Klopp is a leader of men, and Sancho, if he knows what's good for him, will do everything in his power to come and play at Liverpool. If Sancho comes he plays now, and he also future-proofs us on the wing. Four great options for three positions. Plenty of action for everyone, even more with AFCON.

Sancho is a better player than Werner, in my opinion, even though Werner's numbers this season are excellent. But if we signed Werner it would hardly be a booby prize, as he is a very good player who, you would assume, would keep progressing under Klopp. The price for Werner also looks sensible.

My best guess is we sign Sancho this summer. We bring in most of the transfer fee through selling players who currently don't really impact the team (Grujic 25M, Wilson 25M, Shaqiri 25M, maybe one or two other kids). We also buy a left back.

Then summer 2021 maybe Mo leaves, and we are in an almighty fight with Real Madrid for Mbappe, who only has one year left on his deal by then. Maybe Mo goes to Paris and we pick up Mbappe, and the price difference isn't all that much since Mbappe only has a year to go. And if that's the case, we can sign Havertz too, who might need another year where he is to continue to develop.

It feels like almost anything could happen. What a time to be a red!
 

jgw_geneseo

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If Sancho isn't looking for guarantees and looking to be one of the highest paid players on the team, I could see us spend north of 100 mil on him.

However, the likelihood that he would be OK without receiving playing time guarantees and that he wouldn't want to be one of the highest paid on the team are unlikely.

He's an incredibly exciting player, and at his age, it's obvious how he would fit in to Liverpool, but I doubt he has the patience to sit behind Sadio/Salah and be content with substitute appearances and spot starts when one of the other two are rested, with a view to taking over for one of Sadio or Salah in a year or two.

It would be nice though. I'm sure the reports linking us to him are not inaccurate, Edwards will talk to the player/agent to ascertain exactly what Sancho wants when he leaves and what we would be willing to give him. I just doubt those thing will align, and he'll get his big money move elsewhere.
 

Mascot88

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I am doing no such thing. Just like Salah was not a squad player and nor were any of Mane, Coutinho N Firmino (the planned four attackers and all working great for the half a season we had them). None of those 4 were a squad player. None of VvD, Gomez and Matip are squad players. None of Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum or Ox are squad players now Ox is fully recovered and starting nearly every game. You know that after the first 11 the rest aren't squad players.
Let’s make this really simple.

Can we afford Sancho? Yes, probably. If we really wanted to spend 100m on a played we probably could.

Do we need a fourth forward? We have six already, but that aside we could probably do with another winger to back up Salah and Mane, and move on Shaqiri.

Will we spend 100m on Sancho? Very, very unlikely. We only spend that kind of money on cast iron starters, certainly not 19 year olds. And we have promising players on the way up from the academy too.

As I’ve said before if we drop that kind of money, then you can start the clock ticking on Salah’s departure.
 

Billy Biskix

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I've stayed out of this thread til now because the idea of us dropping £100 million plus on a player we don't absolutely need is fantastical. @Prolix is right in that you need to take into account the strategy to date and a transfer like this goes directly against it. Basically, we buy big when we sell big and I don't see Mo or Mane leaving this summer. That said, when JK talked about the AFCon date shift he described it as a 'catastrophe'. Strong words, and that was before Mo popping off to the Olympics became a possibility. So I do think there's a chance another attacker might come in this summer. Werner ticks most boxes and is the most affordable but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being someone that no one is actively discussing.

Generally on transfers, I don't think JK signed a contract extension because he'd been promised untold riches he could spend in building his next great Liverpool team. I think he might have done it because for the first time in his managerial career he is in a position where he can build a team in exactly the way he wants, through coaching and development and from a position of strength, safe in the knowledge that those players he does develop won't be stolen from him by other clubs. I just think that the challenge associated with that will appeal to him. So I'm not expecting a bumper summer but I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with lads like Jones, Elliott, Williams, and Hoever who've started to come through this season.
 

Red over the water

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The question for me isn't "Do we need a fourth forward?"... we have six already; but getting a bit more specific, "Do we need a third top class winger?"

It's a resounding yes for me. Not just for next season, but for the future.

With everyone present, fit and firing at the same time, the need for Sancho is lessened, but it is still there. But can we reasonably assume those circumstances for the whole season? Nope!

All players will have a knock here and there, or some tiredness or a slight dip in form to overcome. A third top class winger is needed and for me, the addition of Sancho will be a gift to preserving the best form of Mo and Mane.

Then we have to factor in the Olympics and especially AFCON to navigate. Mane and Mo will be gone, leaving a massive hole. And currently it's a large drop down in quality, especially with both gone. We absolutely need a top class winger to come in. I fully expect the margin to beating Man City to be much smaller than this season, and keeping the LFC juggernaut going will be crucial.

The cost for Sancho will be mostly covered by expected departures that will barely affect us - guessing Grujic 25M, Wilson 25M, Shaqiri 25M. And between Shaqiri's and Lallana's wages off the books, that would pretty much cover Sancho's wage too. We could do the signing and it would barely create a financial ripple to us.

So if the money is no problem, is there merit in the player, and the quality he brings? Absolutely. Fast. Goals. Assists. Young. Home grown too, which may become a factor as we move forward.

Sancho helps us right away. And he also helps to future proof the team too, given the age of our wingers now. If the opportunity is there to sign Sancho, we should fill our boots.

To date we have only spent an absolute fortune on ready made world class additions to fill a glaring hole in the side. VVD and Alisson being the main examples given. It's a fair point. But what we have done to in the past need not dictate what we do next.

Everything about the club is in an excellent place. Incredible team. Money. Expanding stadium. World class manager tied down. Our main front three are world class and brilliant, but they are also all getting to their late 20s. The time to start preparing for tomorrow is now. Sancho, for all the reasons given above, helps the team both today and tomorrow.

Bring it on.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Not the season before.
Exactly. At the time Salah was bought our 3 best players at the club (by far) were our starting RW Mane, LW playmaker Coutinho and False 9 Firmino. They were head and shoulders above the rest of the team at that stage. We broke our transfer record that had stood for over 5 years and brought in a senior, established player. A player who was decent but not spectacular, a good player in their league but not one of the best by a long way. There were some minor concerns over the long term future of one of our front 3 players as in we might only hold onto him for 1-3 more seasons, especially if we didn't start winning things. But all 4 were young enough to potentially get up to 5 more top level seasons out of them. All under long term contract. Some serious issues needing addressing elsewhere in the squad and limited financial resources. Viewed as an unlikeky/unnecessary move as we had our front 3 in a 433 but in reality we fielded all 4 "full time" and even occasionally fielded all four in a devastating front 4.

Now we have a team chock full of world class talent and it's hard to determine who our top 5 or even 10 players are. Our starting RW Salah, LW Mane and false 9 Firmino are definitely in the picture but not our top 3. We are discussing breaking a quite recent transfer record for a player with a lot more years to give. One of the best players in their league. There are some minor concerns over all 3 players we currently have and whether we will hold onto all three for more than 1-3 seasons more, especially if they've won all they can win with us and could still meet new challenges elsewhere. 3 of them that we already own will probably start showing signs of decline within the next 5 years. But all 4 would be under long term contract still so if any wanted to leave they'd fetch a fortune. Absolutely no real needs anywhere else in the squad and absolutely unprecedented financial strength within the clubs budget. Viewed as an unlikely/unnecessary move as we have our front 3 in a 433 but in reality we could easily end up fielding all 4 "full time" and even occasionally field all 4 in a devastating front 4.

I must be in a world of my own but a move for Sancho, Havertz or even Mbappe for a new club record just really wouldn't surprise me at all. In it's own way it would be less shocking to me than the Salah move.

I think what people are struggling with is the sheer scale of all this. When we bought Salah we were having to be extremely intelligent with our recruitment and hope for some luck. We were hoping to start challenging for CL places again regularly and maintain a place in the top 4. We had limitations on our finances and multiple, massive, issues within the squad. We are now competing to establish ourselves as one of if not the best team on the planet. With finances rolling in we never dreamed of before. We have an amazing squad and can literally afford to sell maybe up to 100 million worth of players that wouldn't even harm us.