• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

Jadon Sancho (RW) Borussia Dortmund

iftikhar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
763
Enough nonsense. Let's send Origi for a loan to Dortmund while they take care of the kid. Then buy Sancho in the winter with Origi as add-on.
 

richieh10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
1,950
Problem with football now is if we want to bring these types of players to the club that’s the sort of coin we have to stump up.
 

richieh10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
1,950
I mean more so from a point of view we are now at the level where we can serious attract these players.

the worlds best players have always cost more money but over the last 20 years how many times can you count that we’ve been in a position to buy the crème.
Now over the past 12 months we’ve been linked to players who are widely regarded to be the best players in the world for their positions and not only that but have their best years ahead of them - Mbappe and Sancho to name but 2. If we want to move to that level... that’s the money we have to pay.

otherwise we can continue to do what we’ve done recently and buy players on the relative cheap and hope they come good. Robbo, Elliott, Van den Berg are in this category - and there isn’t anything wrong with this strategy other than an element of risk with them not developing as the club would hope.

the other thing I would say with Trent, Neco and Curtis coming through and Brewster how on their heels maybe we’re seeing something special starting at the academy just now too.

going back to my original point this is probably my first time as a supporter of nearly 30 years where we can actually compete with the real elite in regards to transfers.
So if we are going in for a player like Sancho (in this case) and we are offering 150k per week, but Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern (just for examples) are offering 200-300k per week we’re not going to be taken very seriously.

of course he would have the chance to develop under Klopp (who wouldn’t wanna play for this guy btw) so that’s a massive selling point that the club will/should use and could use for example, a lower wage structure with bonuses on assists, goals, wins whatever.

could be enough... might not be
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
going back to my original point this is probably my first time as a supporter of nearly 30 years where we can actually compete with the real elite in regards to transfers.
So if we are going in for a player like Sancho (in this case) and we are offering 150k per week, but Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern (just for examples) are offering 200-300k per week we’re not going to be taken very seriously.

of course he would have the chance to develop under Klopp (who wouldn’t wanna play for this guy btw) so that’s a massive selling point that the club will/should use and could use for example, a lower wage structure with bonuses on assists, goals, wins whatever.

could be enough... might not be
All fair points but from my perspective I've supported Liverpool from the days of Paisley. I remember being able to afford the best players the UK had to offer (looking further than Scotland didn't really happen that much back then) but even then Europe would poach the best UK players. They did it because they had the financial resources and the players saw it as a good way to earn some decent cash before retirement. But we were always in a good place to attract players.

I see us back in that position now but the market is a global one. We're still able to attract the best but if the big Euro boys pop up it becomes doubly difficult. I welcome this. Gone are the days of scrabbling, trying to tempt targets but knowing that we really cant afford it or perhaps you buy players on the premise that you are a stepping stone to something bigger. Ultimately you lose out a lot and always end up compromising far too much.

We're now in a position to pick any target (minus Messi) and pretty mush have a decent go at it. We are in a great place now, back to where we were and I welcome it. I have zero objection to looking at relegated clubs or players from lower leagues. Squad balance trumps Galactico's all day for me but I'm super happy that we can basically look at the whole market now rather than having to look in a far more restricted manner.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
A fee of more than 100M and 300K a week for a 20yr old is not our style and rightly so. Transfers like that would unsettle the solid foundation that Klopp has built this side on.
Not sure i agree with that. Its a meritocracy and guys like Shaqiri and Origi shouldn't be paid more than Alexander-Arnold and Gomez just coz they are older. Lets put it this way if 18 year old Messi was available today and we knew what a career he was going to have then hell yeah we should and we would. But Klopp likes players to accept an initially good wage to come in and then from a motivation, reward and business point of view it makes sense to resign on a higher wage within the first two seasons once the player has proven himself.
 

brush85

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
1,745
A fee of more than 100M and 300K a week for a 20yr old is not our style and rightly so. Transfers like that would unsettle the solid foundation that Klopp has built this side on.
A fee of 100 and a wage of 300k for any player, would probably be against our style.
It seems like the club likes players to come in, prove it and then they get quickly rewarded after doing so.

If you get 300k immediately, then the next stage is what? 400? 450?
 

redalways

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,438
Not sure i agree with that. Its a meritocracy and guys like Shaqiri and Origi shouldn't be paid more than Alexander-Arnold and Gomez just coz they are older. Lets put it this way if 18 year old Messi was available today and we knew what a career he was going to have then hell yeah we should and we would. But Klopp likes players to accept an initially good wage to come in and then from a motivation, reward and business point of view it makes sense to resign on a higher wage within the first two seasons once the player has proven himself.
I disagree. All our current players are paid quite well, relatively to what they produce, but they didn't come in on that pay. They came in on a much lower pay, proved themselves before earning new contracts reflecting their status to the team. If anything, our current position as champions (of everything) should mean that any prospective new signing plays by those rules. Gone are the days when we need to attract players with money because we didn't have any compelling sporting attractions for them. If they think they prioritise the instant earnings somewhere else, I don't begrudge them that, but that doesn't belong here. I definitely do not want players who come in thinking about the short-term, rather than focusing on what they could achieve with us long-term, pay package included.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
I disagree. All our current players are paid quite well, relatively to what they produce, but they didn't come in on that pay. They came in on a much lower pay, proved themselves before earning new contracts reflecting their status to the team. If anything, our current position as champions (of everything) should mean that any prospective new signing plays by those rules. Gone are the days when we need to attract players with money because we didn't have any compelling sporting attractions for them. If they think they prioritise the instant earnings somewhere else, I don't begrudge them that, but that doesn't belong here. I definitely do not want players who come in thinking about the short-term, rather than focusing on what they could achieve with us long-term, pay package included.
Did you read all of my post? Yes we will get them in and at the very least from a business point of view we would want to get them an extension on their deal within the first two years. This is because their fee is spread throughout the length of their deal so by extending the length of their deal you spread out the cost further.

On wages though there is no set rule for what that first contract can and should be. Guys like Keita and VvD probably joined on higher wages than some of the guys who were already here and contributing and on their second or third deal with us. You can't offer someone like Sancho an initial contract that Minamino accepted for instance. We've got to at least be realistic with that initial offer.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
It would be so funny if Sancho did actually arrive for a reasonable price and wages no more than 150k , turning his nose down 300k United, don't think it's going to happen but it would be serious ammunition if it did.
perhaps we should ask City how they go Torres?
 

redalways

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,438
Did you read all of my post? Yes we will get them in and at the very least from a business point of view we would want to get them an extension on their deal within the first two years. This is because their fee is spread throughout the length of their deal so by extending the length of their deal you spread out the cost further.

On wages though there is no set rule for what that first contract can and should be. Guys like Keita and VvD probably joined on higher wages than some of the guys who were already here and contributing and on their second or third deal with us. You can't offer someone like Sancho an initial contract that Minamino accepted for instance. We've got to at least be realistic with that initial offer.
My apologies, I was focusing on the Messi part. I think the upset over the desperation by so many for new signings is getting to me. Based on the available evidence we have about our recruitment team so far, I don't think we have that much to worry about, whether or not we do sign particular players. I think with regards to van Dijk and Keita, their initial salary may not have been as much as you think. I'm fairly sure Henderson and Milner at least were on higher pay than Keita, but also that van Dijk's initial contract did not exceed Lovren's pay for example.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
My apologies, I was focusing on the Messi part. I think the upset over the desperation by so many for new signings is getting to me. Based on the available evidence we have about our recruitment team so far, I don't think we have that much to worry about, whether or not we do sign particular players. I think with regards to van Dijk and Keita, their initial salary may not have been as much as you think. I'm fairly sure Henderson and Milner at least were on higher pay than Keita, but also that van Dijk's initial contract did not exceed Lovren's pay for example.
Van Dijks initial contract made him one of our best paid players from day one from what I've read and heard. And thats as it should be, he joined and was instantly in that core group of 5/6 world class players the side relies on. Hes got a good argument in his favour over discussions on who are best player is. I'm not saying a Sancho arrival would be similar but he'd probably join in the top half of our earners with a lot of reassurances over an ability to quickly play his way into our upper category of earners. Anything less would be an insult to a player who could earn double what we would pay if he were to move elsewhere.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
15,932
I mean more so from a point of view we are now at the level where we can serious attract these players.

the worlds best players have always cost more money but over the last 20 years how many times can you count that we’ve been in a position to buy the crème.
Now over the past 12 months we’ve been linked to players who are widely regarded to be the best players in the world for their positions and not only that but have their best years ahead of them - Mbappe and Sancho to name but 2. If we want to move to that level... that’s the money we have to pay.


going back to my original point this is probably my first time as a supporter of nearly 30 years where we can actually compete with the real elite in regards to transfers.

So if we are going in for a player like Sancho (in this case) and we are offering 150k per week, but Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern (just for examples) are offering 200-300k per week we’re not going to be taken very seriously.

of course he would have the chance to develop under Klopp (who wouldn’t wanna play for this guy btw) so that’s a massive selling point that the club will/should use and could use for example, a lower wage structure with bonuses on assists, goals, wins whatever.

could be enough... might not be
We can't really compete head on for the same players though. We might get lucky with the odd one, but more often than not we will lose out if a club like Real Madrid really want that player, and if the player we sign flops, it will be far more damaging to us than it would if it happened to our rivals. Unfortunately, too many fans assume we can try to buy anyone and then get frustrated when we don't.

We've already been increasing the wages of our playing squad consistently since Klopp came in - they are almost double. In 2015/16, wages were £166m of of a turnover of £298m for the year. Our wage bill alone now is £310m but it still leaves us having 3rd highest wage bill in the UK and 9th highest in Europe i think. That hasn't left a lot of money to pay for fees, hence why we often spent big only after selling big, and why we try to avoid buying at other times if we think it isn't necessary - that money we save on not buying a left back who wont get games, can be put to one side for a more important player we may need the following season, or allow us to increase wages of someone we really want to keep.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
16,595
All fair points but from my perspective I've supported Liverpool from the days of Paisley. I remember being able to afford the best players the UK had to offer (looking further than Scotland didn't really happen that much back then) but even then Europe would poach the best UK players. They did it because they had the financial resources and the players saw it as a good way to earn some decent cash before retirement. But we were always in a good place to attract players.
Back then, the top players didn't make enough money to avoid having to think about what they would do after football. Today, even a bog standard prem player can retire at 26 and never work again if he wanted to. Money will always be a big driver, but once you get to that level of compensation, there is diminishing returns of offering more and more money. That opens up a lot more capacity to heavily weigh non-financial matters in your decision on where to go. We do offer something different than money. Many players will ignore it, but I think you can make a decent argument that our entire approach requires us to focus on those who do value that sort of non-financial compensation.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
Back then, the top players didn't make enough money to avoid having to think about what they would do after football. Today, even a bog standard prem player can retire at 26 and never work again if he wanted to. Money will always be a big driver, but once you get to that level of compensation, there is diminishing returns of offering more and more money. That opens up a lot more capacity to heavily weigh non-financial matters in your decision on where to go. We do offer something different than money. Many players will ignore it, but I think you can make a decent argument that our entire approach requires us to focus on those who do value that sort of non-financial compensation.
very true. It is nice to be dining at the top table again though. We have choices and the choices are in many cases our own to make. Not so long ago those choices were not realistically available.
 

pottymonster

Peanut butter!
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
1,817
RE: wage debate.

The players we have signed so far that have come in on lower wages and then showed they deserved more weren't at the level Sancho is at before we brought them in. Salah and Mane weren't destined to be the best players in the world when we brought them in, they weren't already showing that level. They were decent players, but they weren't superstars. Same goes for VVD and Allison. We thought they could probably be the best, so we paid accordingly, but they weren't yet the best so their contracts didn't have to be through the roof initially.

With Sancho, he's going to be the best and he's already good enough to be our best player. You don't sign someone like that and then tell him he needs to prove himself. He's already proven himself in Germany and with England. He comes in ready to go, and he gets the big wages right from the start. If you want to sign the best players, you have to pay them that way right from the start. If the club want a player like Sancho, he isn't coming in on 90k + bonus.

If the club are serious about signing someone like Sancho or Mbappe, which they should be although I doubt they are, they're going to have to pay them like they're the best player at the club.
 

nikz200

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
1,249
If United thinks they are going to get this guy without shelling 100 mil , they are probably deluded , and they will panic and pay 100 mil for him once they see Dortmund is not playing around cause thats what united do, they fold and pay big money because they are afraid of their fans backlash.

Jadon Sancho himself is a interesting player, but why is this thread even still open? The club has shown that a player of Sancho's price range is out of the question especially this window so yeah. Its also quite annoying how the papers and ITKs keep trying to come up with things to make it look like he wants to join us and all. Its complete nonsense once he holds up the UTD shirt and says how much he loves UTD and all that bullshit.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
15,932
RE: wage debate.

They were decent players, but they weren't superstars. Same goes for VVD and Allison. We thought they could probably be the best, so we paid accordingly, but they weren't yet the best so their contracts didn't have to be through the roof initially.

With Sancho, he's going to be the best and he's already good enough to be our best player. You don't sign someone like that and then tell him he needs to prove himself. He's already proven himself in Germany and with England. He comes in ready to go, and he gets the big wages right from the start. If you want to sign the best players, you have to pay them that way right from the start. If the club want a player like Sancho, he isn't coming in on 90k + bonus.
Sadio and Mo were far more than just decent players before they joined us. Same goes for VVD and Allison. Price isnt the same as value.