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Jamal Lewis (LB) Norwich City

Obligatory lean poll

  • Random desk, signing a random piece of paper, wearing a top Twitter fumes about

  • Leaning against the Wall of Champions, pointing to 19, waggling his eyebrows

  • The substitute's bench, where he'll be spending 99% of his time

  • A railing at Melwood

  • On a video conference from his home, unboxing a Nike top they sent him for free anyways

  • From underneath a pile of masks

  • Andy Robertson's house, where he ran to just to prove a point

  • A growing pile of FSG out signs from lads wanting marquee signings

  • Hope's private holiday chalet in the Alps

  • Delia Smith's wine cellar


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Iluvatar

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Hard pass on anyone resembling Moreno for me, don't want to watch that shite again. To be fair Lewis is a much better 1v1 defender so I'm not making that comparison, only with his attacking game.

Personally I don't see much value in just adding a solid backup option at left back, it's not something that will realistically make much difference to our season. At 10 million it's just about fine, but if the fee starts approaching 15-20 then you'd have to wonder why we aren't putting that money to better use in the current financial climate.
I think we just dont agree on this one, but that’s fine. I’ve not seen a lot of Lewis granted but if our scouting team think he could provide competition then I’d be very happy with the signing.

I also think we differ in what we want from the back up left back, for me having a left footed player who can provide width i.e. not a right footed player cutting inside, is more important than the defending elements as I’d hope they are playing to give Robbo a rest primarily and thus against weaker teams where the demands of defending are lesser.. I do think anyone we bring in improves in all areas, look at Trent and the massive jumps in defending ability we saw etc.

I have seen Lewis’ heatmaps and pass direction and it is very similar to Robertson, he just crosses less. So for me that’s a positive, he takes up similar positions.

I’d also like Williams to concentrate on playing right back as he is a natural there and realistically would grow better not swapping between right and left etc.

I do agree with your point that if we start to go beyond £10mi (basically spending the Lovren money) it becomes a much less attractive transfer.
 

Dutch

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Out of all our young players I think he's the most limited. Great athlete and very tidy on the ball, but frankly a bang average defender with little attacking instinct. £10m does sound crazy cheap though.

Somebody should tell this lad that with VvD next to you and Becker behind him everybody becomes automatically a better defender.
 

redfanman

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Dont know enough about him, but looking at the Norwich forum they don't seem to rate him highly and are surprised he is linked with us.

Here are some comments made by their supporters:

As an aside, whilst Lewis would no doubt be an excellent player for us in the Championship, I don't think he's of the quality Liverpool would require for him to play regular games if Robertson gets injured. £10m seems a bit cheap, but £15m wouldn't be a bad deal

and

it does seem odd, but we do seem to think this about Jamal...though that does seem slightly out of kilter if Liverpool, the new PL Champions, think he’s good enough for them (even if only as back up).

and

Out of all our young players I think he's the most limited. Great athlete and very tidy on the ball, but frankly a bang average defender with little attacking instinct. £10m does sound crazy cheap though.

Probably explains why we haven't seen @ILLOK and @Sweeting posting here much recently, they're obviously busy there :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

redfanman

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I think we just dont agree on this one, but that’s fine. I’ve not seen a lot of Lewis granted but if our scouting team think he could provide competition then I’d be very happy with the signing.

I also think we differ in what we want from the back up left back, for me having a left footed player who can provide width i.e. not a right footed player cutting inside, is more important than the defending elements as I’d hope they are playing to give Robbo a rest primarily and thus against weaker teams where the demands of defending are lesser.. I do think anyone we bring in improves in all areas, look at Trent and the massive jumps in defending ability we saw etc.

I have seen Lewis’ heatmaps and pass direction and it is very similar to Robertson, he just crosses less. So for me that’s a positive, he takes up similar positions.

I’d also like Williams to concentrate on playing right back as he is a natural there and realistically would grow better not swapping between right and left etc.

I do agree with your point that if we start to go beyond £10mi (basically spending the Lovren money) it becomes a much less attractive transfer.
I doubt this is the 'Lovren' money being spent. There will be other funds there anyway, and we're likely to be selling other players too in the window.
 

ILLOK

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I think we just dont agree on this one, but that’s fine. I’ve not seen a lot of Lewis granted but if our scouting team think he could provide competition then I’d be very happy with the signing.

I also think we differ in what we want from the back up left back, for me having a left footed player who can provide width i.e. not a right footed player cutting inside, is more important than the defending elements as I’d hope they are playing to give Robbo a rest primarily and thus against weaker teams where the demands of defending are lesser.. I do think anyone we bring in improves in all areas, look at Trent and the massive jumps in defending ability we saw etc.

I have seen Lewis’ heatmaps and pass direction and it is very similar to Robertson, he just crosses less. So for me that’s a positive, he takes up similar positions.

I’d also like Williams to concentrate on playing right back as he is a natural there and realistically would grow better not swapping between right and left etc.

I do agree with your point that if we start to go beyond £10mi (basically spending the Lovren money) it becomes a much less attractive transfer.
I'm fine with the idea of us playing a left footer there, what I find amusing is the idea that some have that any left footer will provide a similar threat to Robertson. Not saying you, necessarily.

If we want them to provide width, they should also be able to cross. Maybe I'm just being harsh or getting it wrong but I don't think I've seen Lewis cross a ball well once. Perhaps that's due to Norwich's style of play, I don't know. If he is just a mediocre crosser of the ball I'd prefer us to stick with what we have, being left footed isn't enough of a reason to splash some cash. For years we had Clyne and Moreno providing plenty of width but they were shite with the ball and very seldom a threat to the opposition. Not a big fan of going back to that.

The Greek lad Tsimikas is apparently on our short list, and reports say available for 7 million. I know nothing about him but his youtube comp would suggest he is a good crosser of the ball.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Not getting too carried away at this stage as it was very strange how that article was worded/formatted and as likely as it is to see this kid leaning within days its still just as likely this is our "Ward could be given our number 1 shirt next season" the week before we signed Alisson. Although we don't usually use someone else's players to help us sign someone else.

Did have a look at some (what I consider) important stats for Lewis versus Robertson at Hull though and it wasn't bad. Got to remember stats are heavily dependant on how the owning team sets up and manager instructions (for example maybe Norwich didn't want their LB crossing the ball?).

Lewis key passes; 0.5, dribbles 1.2, passing accuracy 78.9, crosses 0.4, tackles 1.8, interceptions 0.9, clearances 2.

Robertson key passes; 0.6, dribbles 0.8, passing accuracy 76. crosses 0.6, tackles 1.6, interceptions 1.7, clearances 2.3.

Looking at numbers there is a guess I'd make on usage of both by the managers involved, Lewis is expected to dribble down the wing more laying the ball off to others with short, accurate passes. He only does 1.1 long balls compared to Robertson who did 2.4. Robertson, who can dribble as we know, probably wasn't given as much licence to dribble down the wing but was probably given more direction to hit the ball long for others to run onto. What does this mean? Absolutely nothing probably but made me feel better that something might be there if we sign him. The real stats the recruitment team would look real in depth on would be stuff like "what does he try to do in this situation" etc. and be real in depth.
 

redfanman

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It does make me wonder whether if true (and i don't see why our interest shouldn't be - we were linked to him last year ) the club think they can improve his crossing, or are simply less concerned with that and will look to build through the centre more frequently (again, tying into rumours of interest of Thiago?)?

Could last summer's lack of purchase of a LB been because they were tracking Lewis?
 

Kopstar

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Not getting too carried away at this stage as it was very strange how that article was worded
Yeah, the almost throwaway line at the end about Tsimikas that Nikola refers to in his OP is a bit odd.


It's a bit inconclusive, especially the part about Tsimikas but still, it's Melissa, she's reliable and Mercyful Fate have an album named after her.
It does make me wonder whether if true (and i don't see why our interest shouldn't be - we were linked to him last year ) the club think they can improve his crossing, or are simply less concerned with that and will look to build through the centre more frequently (again, tying into rumours of interest of Thiago?)?

Could last summer's lack of purchase of a LB been because they were tracking Lewis?
I think that was more likely to be about giving Larouci the space and opportunity to grow and develop but unfortunately that hasn't gone as hoped.
 

Iluvatar

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I'm fine with the idea of us playing a left footer there, what I find amusing is the idea that some have that any left footer will provide a similar threat to Robertson. Not saying you, necessarily.

If we want them to provide width, they should also be able to cross. Maybe I'm just being harsh or getting it wrong but I don't think I've seen Lewis cross a ball well once. Perhaps that's due to Norwich's style of play, I don't know. If he is just a mediocre crosser of the ball I'd prefer us to stick with what we have, being left footed isn't enough of a reason to splash some cash. For years we had Clyne and Moreno providing plenty of width but they were shite with the ball and very seldom a threat to the opposition. Not a big fan of going back to that.

The Greek lad Tsimikas is apparently on our short list, and reports say available for 7 million. I know nothing about him but his youtube comp would suggest he is a good crosser of the ball.
No I agree, its irrespective what foot they use if they use it well - Look at Van Dijk, right footed at left center half, you'd never know.

I just typically watch most right footed players at left back - Milner, Gomez, Williams and they all cut in on their right.. So maybe it's just Mane isn't adapting and making the overlap etc. But my view is when we have a naturally right footed player there we lose a lot of the attacking threat Robertson brings.. Primarily his ability to overlap and cross from pretty much any position on the pitch.

As you say if Lewis can't do that then he is no better than Milner there (at least when he cuts in on his right he can cross well).

I agree with redfanman, we could have seen something which we think this kid has all the right tools but we need to make him spend 6 months crossing into bins before he's ready to play how we need. The funny bit I always found with Robbo was (and Trent winds him up about it all the time) that he is a terrible crosser of a static ball, make the ball move and he is godlike.. And despite 2 years here he has made zero improvements to his corner taking.. So the risk is Lewis doesn't improve.
 

redfanman

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Yeah, the almost throwaway line at the end about Tsimikas that Nikola refers to in his OP is a bit odd.




I think that was more likely to be about giving Larouci the space and opportunity to grow and develop but unfortunately that hasn't gone as hoped.
Its possible Larouci was the reason but I never really felt that they were that confident he would be able to step up in the next year or two.
 

richieh10

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LB comes in from a relegated side.

give him 18 months and klopp will turn him into a £30m + player.

not bad for a back up LB and he will give robbo a break against some of the lesser sides.

will also mean Robbo will have to be on his toes every session
 

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Just as for Robbo at the time, I've not seen much from Lewis. But if Klopp and his team have spotted something in him, then bring him in! :giggle:

(this looks like a typical Klopp/fsg signing btw)
 

richieh10

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Just out of interest. With winning the champions league and spending practically 0 and then winning the PL does anybody have an idea about what our transfer kitty is?

i understand COVID-19 will have probably eaten into that somewhat but we should, for example have more money to spend than the likes of United, Spurs, Arsenal.
Citeh can obviously spend what they like (not as if it’s effectively policed is it) and Chelsea have had a while where they couldn’t spend so I would imagine those 2 being the only ones who can outspend us at the moment.
 

Hope in your heart

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Just out of interest. With winning the champions league and spending practically 0 and then winning the PL does anybody have an idea about what our transfer kitty is?

i understand COVID-19 will have probably eaten into that somewhat but we should, for example have more money to spend than the likes of United, Spurs, Arsenal.
Citeh can obviously spend what they like (not as if it’s effectively policed is it) and Chelsea have had a while where they couldn’t spend so I would imagine those 2 being the only ones who can outspend us at the moment.
I wouldn't expect us to have much money to spend. We will probably reinvest money from eventual sales, and that will be it.

The key point about remaining prudent for the time being is probably not what the club has left in the bank or not, it's the uncertainty about future revenues in the next year or so.
 

costared

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Hard pass on anyone resembling Moreno for me, don't want to watch that shite again. To be fair Lewis is a much better 1v1 defender so I'm not making that comparison, only with his attacking game.

Personally I don't see much value in just adding a solid backup option at left back, it's not something that will realistically make much difference to our season. At 10 million it's just about fine, but if the fee starts approaching 15-20 then you'd have to wonder why we aren't putting that money to better use in the current financial climate.

IMO Lloyd Kelly would be a better VFM option. A young player with PL experience who can play CB if needed and could be challenging Robbo with a season or two Klopp coaching.
Failing him Jamal would be a good option.
 
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Mascot88

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IMO Lloyd Kelly would be a better VFM option. A young player with PL experience who can play CB if needed and could be challenging Robbo with a season or two Klopp coaching.
We really need to stay away from converted centre backs. Might work for another team. Won’t work for us.

The full backs are attackers. They need to be able to attack.
 

costared

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We really need to stay away from converted centre backs. Might work for another team. Won’t work for us.

The full backs are attackers. They need to be able to attack.
I thought Kelly was an attacking LB first and a CB second. Maybe I was wrong . Still like him either way.
 

Mascot88

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I thought Kelly was an attacking LB first and a CB second. Maybe I was wrong . Still like him either way.
I don’t think it matter which way round the conversion went. If he’s defensive minded enough to be considered for the CB position, then he probably isn’t attacking enough to be our fullback, although he might be for another team.
 

MinniMo

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I read something, somewhere yesterday (boring day trawling the web) that this lad, Kelly, is capable of playing left back and right back. Now if that's correct I can see the Klopp attraction to him, he loves adapatable players that he can switch lwhen required. I think this lad could be a really good addition, but we (the fans) have to be patient and give him and the coaching team time to sort him out.
 

redfanman

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Just out of interest. With winning the champions league and spending practically 0 and then winning the PL does anybody have an idea about what our transfer kitty is?

i understand COVID-19 will have probably eaten into that somewhat but we should, for example have more money to spend than the likes of United, Spurs, Arsenal.
Citeh can obviously spend what they like (not as if it’s effectively policed is it) and Chelsea have had a while where they couldn’t spend so I would imagine those 2 being the only ones who can outspend us at the moment.
Why should we have more money to spend than Utd? They generate significantly more cash than us from their commercial activities and have no hesitation in borrowing large sums of money to finance player acquisition (and do not appear to be interested/needing to finance Stadium/training facility upgrades).
 

redfanman

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I don’t think it matter which way round the conversion went. If he’s defensive minded enough to be considered for the CB position, then he probably isn’t attacking enough to be our fullback, although he might be for another team.
I disagree. It is very much a case by case example and i am sure that there are examples of good attacking full backs who could play equally well at CB. Steve Nicol comes immediately to mind, and Alaba at Bayern for example.
 

Mascot88

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I disagree. It is very much a case by case example and i am sure that there are examples of good attacking full backs who could play equally well at CB. Steve Nicol comes immediately to mind, and Alaba at Bayern for example.
Ours take attacking to a whole other level though. Attacking full back used to mean ‘full back who gets up the pitch a bit’.
 
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