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John Achterberg - is he responsible for our keepers shortcomings?

Is John Achterberg causing our keepers to decline?


  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .

Flobs

FADA
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Apr 20, 2015
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I don't think any GK coach is perfect. They all have weaknesses and strenghts. I don't think a GK coach can learn a keeper something he himself isn't good at. Achterberg clearly isn't good at learning our keepers to deal with crosses for example. Probably because he don't know how to deal with them himself. How will he then be able to learn our keepers doing that?

I think we need more than one GK coach so we can cover everything a keeper need.
Personally I don't think this is true. If a coach understands how it's done and is aware of a players style he can teach the player how he can do it. As long as the coach understands the techniques he can pass them on. (A great player might not understand the technique involved he just does/did it (naturally) where as a poorer player having had to work on it could understand it better so be able to teach others - nothing is set in stone).
As for Achterberg it seems evident he struggles to improve our goalkeepers Mentally, physically and technically despite all his badges and experience he has limited ability in coaching.
 


Werder4life

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I'm in the "not sure"-camp. I haven't been following LFC long enough that closely to make an informed judgement on goalie progression.

But I noticed a strong case of confirmation bias going on amongst LFC supporters regarding their goalkeepers.
People tend to ignore any positives in a keeper's performance , but blow the negatives out of proportion , as if they were just waiting for some howler to happen to confirm their oppinion.
I didn't find Karius very convincing so far as well, nor do I think he is currently as stable as he was with Mainz (from what I've seen him doing there) , but to me it's totally normal. New club , new city , new people , slightly different refereeing regarding goalie protection in the box and hell a lot of pressure on this position from the public and the media.
Same goes for Migs to an extend , though he had a lot more time to settle.
In the matches (with Karius) I rewatched the extended highlights of , there were one in around twenty goalie actions , that looked a bit shaky , three howlers in 10 matches: A cross he went for and didn't reach , the fucked up goalkick and the fumble of the ball last match.

In the same match he stopped two clean shots on target and saved two striker through on goal situations , out of around eight shots on target in total from B'mouth. Yet some people allready call him a flop.

Sorry to say this , but the only supporters I know being that judgemental as well are Bayernfans, and they really don't have that much to cry about , but they are not really used to failure.

Regarding Achterberg , the only thing that comes to my mind is , that he might have not a good hand at teaching his keepers mentally to cope with pressure. Has he had a career as a keeper himself?

A lot of FCB keepers lauded legend Sepp Maier because of his mental coaching (having seen it all himself)
 

AussieLad

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No, Achterberg. is not responsible for the short comings of our keepers and I beg those old enough to remember Joe Corrigan and how much faith fans had in our goalkeepers whilst he was the goalkeeping coach
 

kwala

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Hr doesn't exactly have quality to work with, but it is hard to see any improvements!
 

lfc.eddie

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Well today, the positioning of Karius for that Payet's freekick which resulted to a goal tells you why I feel this man isn't good enough to be our goalkeeping coach. Positioning aren't like reflex saves, it's drilled and trained.
 



ILLOK

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Well today, the positioning of Karius for that Payet's freekick which resulted to a goal tells you why I feel this man isn't good enough to be our goalkeeping coach. Positioning aren't like reflex saves, it's drilled and trained.
A 23 year old keeper with as much experience as Karius shouldn't need to be told where to stand in such a position. And Achterberg is not the reason he has weak wrists either.
 

lfc.eddie

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A 23 year old keeper with as much experience as Karius shouldn't need to be told where to stand in such a position. And Achterberg is not the reason he has weak wrists either.
Positioning is coached though, no? Having worked with the coach, surely he would have told him and drilled him on how to set up the wall in which position and where to stand to reach for the ball without travelling too far, don't you think? Mignolet's positioning was shit too...
 

Makati Red

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All the posters defending Karius and the coach are probably wishing they hadnt issued such a strong defence of the pair real shame they have to cost us the title for us to find this out . Pretty much what Andy Townsend said on the TV
 



Mascot88

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This is pretty much the first time I think I've seen anything Andy Townsend has said used as evidence of anything other than Andy Townsend is a pillock.
I'm used to listening to Townsend and thinking 'right, I'd better have the opposite opinion. I don't people calling me a twat'.
 

ILLOK

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All the posters defending Karius and the coach are probably wishing they hadnt issued such a strong defence of the pair real shame they have to cost us the title for us to find this out . Pretty much what Andy Townsend said on the TV
Better (clearly) to post an opinion and then post another half an hour later contradicting your first one, so you're always right.
 

Etipafilaf

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I don't know much about goalkeeping and the fundamentals involved... but my question is this:

Has anyone improved with him in charge? I've seen suggestions he has made some keepers worse but if they stay the same that's just as bad imo.
 

Strictly Armchair

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All the posters defending Karius and the coach are probably wishing they hadnt issued such a strong defence of the pair real shame they have to cost us the title for us to find this out . Pretty much what Andy Townsend said on the TV
Erm, maybe because CLEARLY most of us are not prepared to throw one of our players under a bus after less than a dozen appearances.
And as for quoting the talking rectum that is Andy Townsend to back-up your latest gnostic pronouncement ...

With regards to your earlier assertion that 'Reina and Grobelaar were clearly world class after 8 games even though they were making mistakes', I call bullshit on your memory of the '81-'82 season. Grobbelaar was borderline abysmal for the first 4/5 months (that's months, not matches) and I'm being kind. His highly erratic performances culminated in a hideous showing on Boxing Day '81 against Man City at Anfield when his keeping was several levels below what we have seen from Karius in his last two matches. Ye Olde TIA would have gone into meltdown.
It's because of my memory of this, given how Grob turned out in the end, that I'm prepared to indulge in the (now old-fashioned) belief that someone should actually be given a chance.

Rush didn't score a goal in his nine appearances in his first full season. Clearly you would have been happy to have shipped him out with a 'He'll never be good enough at this level. Can't get a game and when he does he can't score. Clearly he isn't good enough and Paisley will have to sell him to a smaller club for a loss.'

I suppose Klopp will now be clearly signing a new keeper in January while Sturridge is clearly going to be sold (despite Coutinho's absence, Ings' injury and Mané being off to the African Cup of Nations). About as factual as Götze definitely joining us in the summer IIRC.

FFS.
 



Flobs

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I don't know much about goalkeeping and the fundamentals involved... but my question is this:

Has anyone improved with him in charge? I've seen suggestions he has made some keepers worse but if they stay the same that's just as bad imo.
When Karius makes the same mistakes as Mignolet then I don't think that' a pertinent question. It's obvious that 2 different keepers are being 'pushed' in the same direction.
Wall positioning is a case of proof, Mignolet can't place a wall nor can Karius the common denominator is the coach.
Mignolet doesn't know how to close down an attacker nor does Karius, ditto the above.
 

Sound as a Pound

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As for the goalkeeping coach, questions look to be asked from the outside, but that's a decision for the manager, he lives and dies by the sword and would know a hell more than we do
 

GCormskirk

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First of all an apology from me as this is a repeat of a comment I have made on the post West Ham match thread. I am new on the forum. In this on going debate about our goalkeepers that has peaked following the Bournemouth match and continued today following the draw against West Ham, could the answer to our goalkeeper questions be already on our club books, but currently on loan at Huddersfield ?
 

Strictly Armchair

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I'd have thought that one of the tasks for a goalkeeping coach would be to work with the keepers on the positioning of a defensive wall and their own starting position for free kicks. Seems as though not much has changed.
Remember this one from February when Noncey Johnson got one past a badly positioned wall, helped by a grim attempt to keep out the shot? Like Payet's free-kick, poor organisation / positioning has made the opponents job a sight easier than it should have been.

 

Mascot88

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If anyone is taking advice or agreeing with Andy feckin Townsend they need to have a word with themselves
It's just about strutting around doing the 'I was right and you were wrong' thing. But dredging up Andy 'just get it up the big man' Townsend is about as desperate as you can get.
 



redyukka

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Met him once selling timeshares or something at my local golf club.

Anyway, not seeing Karius perform any differently to Mignolet so far which is pretty bad. Both seem to make poor decisions and the setup for the free kick today was awful. So that's two keepers with faults that don't seem to improve. And Klopp says you develop players rather than buy new ones.

I voted "not sure" but I'd probably try changing coach if I could.
 

Claymenza

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But he has his UEFA Pro license!!!

As someone said earlier the whole responsibility of a goalkeeping coach needs a re-think.

Unlike other 'departments' in the squad, the goalie is an exclusive position with no room for substitutions, injuries, or suspensions. This means if you sign a top keeper for the next 5 years, he have to stick with him unless things are calamitous.

There's a reason why goalkeeping coaches exist. They have that experience of being in this unique position before and act as an impartial buffer with the Manager. He is there to mentor and provide feedback, that the manager cannot on a day to day basis.

Xavi Valero had that relationship with Reina. I remember when Reina started, he couldn't handle crosses because he wasn't accustomed to that in spain. Months later, he bulked up and could punch the ball on crosses all the way to the half way line. It could be down to rafa as well, but the bottomline is that there was improvement and they all take the credit for it.

When things go south, they all take the blame too
If the rumors of joe hart are true, then it means we really don't need john achterberg because we can just buy a top experienced keeper. it's a bit unfair, knowing that mignolet and karius are still young and decent.
 
Last edited:

Claymenza

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Well today, the positioning of Karius for that Payet's freekick which resulted to a goal tells you why I feel this man isn't good enough to be our goalkeeping coach. Positioning aren't like reflex saves, it's drilled and trained.
I'm also bemused why there are so many folks blame the wall for this. That video of mignolet defending adam johnson's free kick is just as telling. Does the coach drill the defense how to setup a wall or is that the keeper who instructs the defense. There are so many parameters.
  1. The wall (defense, opposition and goalie's judgement?)
  2. The positioning (goalie's judgement?)
  3. The shot (opposition's technique/ability)
  4. The dive (goalie's technique/ability)
If you take all these parameters in consideration, is the goalkeeping coach able to improve on the goalie's judgement, and technique? If reflex was the number one coefficient, then mignolet would be in the squad because he is a better shot stopper.
Alex Manninger wasn't signed to be a number 4 keeper. Clearly Klopp had other plans for him.
 

boonsong

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maybe both..karius has been disastrous throughout the season, except 1-2 matches
 

Kaliberbeats

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Klopp has his coaching staff at most levels of the senior squad, I expect he'll have his own GK coach in by the end of next summer, thankfully. I've watched GK after GK go backwards at our club over the last 10 years. It needs fixing.
 



Artrain

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Either way for Achterberg, at worst he's causing the goalkeeping problems, at best he isn't solving them.
This here is the statement. He might not be the problem. The players might have had those problems since the beginning, but it is his job to continuously improve our keepers by training them. Even status quo is not acceptable, because you stand still and you fall behind. Whats the point of having a trainer if players are not getting trained?
 

Libero

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This here is the statement. He might not be the problem. The players might have had those problems since the beginning, but it is his job to continuously improve our keepers by training them. Even status quo is not acceptable, because you stand still and you fall behind. Whats the point of having a trainer if players are not getting trained?
Yep and this is why I think many of us would like to see a change there. I wonder what sort of relationship he has with Klopp and if he has considered bringing someone else in.
 

redbj

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A 23 year old keeper with as much experience as Karius shouldn't need to be told where to stand in such a position. And Achterberg is not the reason he has weak wrists either.
Well, yes. And no.

the fact that karius stood where he did, means atcheburg probably should have had words.

I think it runs deeper than that now though.

I remember when reina came to the club, he used to just punch the fuck out of the ball every opportunity, to some criticism.

He later gave an interview saying that was the instruction until he got used to the league, and what players can get away with as contact on the keeper.....

Nothing to do with the free kick....but wouldn't it be nice to see evidence of planning and coaching instruction of such ilk though.....

For Antonioni goal he was caught in no mans land....perhaps he should give this sweeper keeper lark a rest until he knows the league a bit better.....there just seems to be no direction, no game plan, no long term strategy.....it's just like ' go out there and do your best son'
 

spizfromoz

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Yeah, but shouldn't an experienced keeper know where to stand? I mean who would tell him to stand out in the street? I find it all too weird, myself. I'm not wanting to cane the player. But I can't understand how this instruction was given? Bluetooth earpiece?
 

RedBaron

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I rate Klopp.
I believe he knows what he's doing. He obviously thinks our young German keeper will shine.
FFS back the keeper, back the team and back the manager. No blame on anyone.