Jorginho (DM) Napoli

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Phil123

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#31
No reason to get hurt, ITK can be "In The Know" can also be "I Talk Krap". So take everything you read as if it comes from the latter...
Yeah, I know, but the idea of him coming starts to get in, don't know if you get what I'm saying, but after the rumours and everything else if he goes to Manchester it would suck
 
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#32
... if he goes to Manchester it would suck
To be fair, anyone who goes to Manchester has my sympathies... not just ill-advised footballers. The city is a dump; the weather’s crap; the locals’ accent is annoying as fuck and yet they have some bizarre sense of superiority.

I hate the place.
 

Iluvatar

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#33
To be fair, anyone who goes to Manchester has my sympathies... not just ill-advised footballers. The city is a dump; the weather’s crap; the locals’ accent is annoying as fuck and yet they have some bizarre sense of superiority.

I hate the place.
You heard the stories about Sanchez? Eats on his own etc. Fucking hates the place. Both can rot :D
 

Zoran

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#34
Looks like he's attracted a lot of interest this season. Wasn't so linked with top clubs before and with a number of them for a coming transfer window. Of course, this is probably Napoli at their best now (if they can keep this up or even improve is another pair of shoes) and he's someone who won back his place and performs well, but still. We'll see what happens here as it seems like he's got options. Still working this one out, I'm a bit in the middle and need more time/proof to decide on this one, also depending on price, etc. He does bring some technical elements which we miss in the middle. So that's positive. But I would certainly not be as excited as I am with Keita arriving par example, that one really excites me (not far from the levels when Suarez joined). That one could make a big difference, I don't expect him to win us games on his own, but he could quickly quite comfortably become our best midfielder, the first proper upgrade for Klopp in the heart of the team.
 

steveee

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#36
I would be gutted if he went to United.
it doesn't sound like he would go to Man U judging by his recent comments..

"I think that I could fit," he added. "It depends on who else is around me - I need players with the same characteristics that I have.

"There are English teams with this style of play, ball on the ground, quick transitions, high pressure.

"If one of those teams wanted me, I could fit and the other way round. My football way is not an usual one."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/jorginho-breaks-silence-premier-league-12268605
 

Gone Kloppo

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#39
Looks like he's attracted a lot of interest this season. Wasn't so linked with top clubs before and with a number of them for a coming transfer window. Of course, this is probably Napoli at their best now (if they can keep this up or even improve is another pair of shoes) and he's someone who won back his place and performs well, but still. We'll see what happens here as it seems like he's got options. Still working this one out, I'm a bit in the middle and need more time/proof to decide on this one, also depending on price, etc. He does bring some technical elements which we miss in the middle. So that's positive. But I would certainly not be as excited as I am with Keita arriving par example, that one really excites me (not far from the levels when Suarez joined). That one could make a big difference, I don't expect him to win us games on his own, but he could quickly quite comfortably become our best midfielder, the first proper upgrade for Klopp in the heart of the team.
The problem I have with Jorginho is that with he and Keita in the middle, I would be worried about our aerial strength or lack thereof. Provided in addition to him and Keita we were getting another wide forward/CAM who is a good set piece taker (maybe even penalty taker pretty please!) then the only issue I have would be aerial strength in the middle. Can to Jorginho in that department is a massive downgrade. We would be relying on Henderson to stay fit for the teams with the big powerful midfielders which would be a worry. The more I think about it, regardless of some of his great qualities, I worry about his weaknesses in the physically imposing PL.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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#40
The problem I have with Jorginho is that with he and Keita in the middle, I would be worried about our aerial strength or lack thereof. Provided in addition to him and Keita we were getting another wide forward/CAM who is a good set piece taker (maybe even penalty taker pretty please!) then the only issue I have would be aerial strength in the middle. Can to Jorginho in that department is a massive downgrade. We would be relying on Henderson to stay fit for the teams with the big powerful midfielders which would be a worry. The more I think about it, regardless of some of his great qualities, I worry about his weaknesses in the physically imposing PL.
What about City? The only physical/more defensive player they have in midfield is Fernandinho, who is shorter than Jorginho. And at 5'11 I wouldn't say he's particularly short for midfield. He's 4cm shorter than Can, 2cm shorter than Hendo.
 

Koon

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#41
The problem I have with Jorginho is that with he and Keita in the middle, I would be worried about our aerial strength or lack thereof. Provided in addition to him and Keita we were getting another wide forward/CAM who is a good set piece taker (maybe even penalty taker pretty please!) then the only issue I have would be aerial strength in the middle. Can to Jorginho in that department is a massive downgrade. We would be relying on Henderson to stay fit for the teams with the big powerful midfielders which would be a worry. The more I think about it, regardless of some of his great qualities, I worry about his weaknesses in the physically imposing PL.
Ndombele would be the perfect answer to that issue.

I think that with Jorginho and Keita only, it would be better to find a bulish midfielder just like Ndombele. He is not very tall but he is strong, fast and skilled.
 

Koon

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#43
I think you just described Naby Keïta.
Ndombele is physically stronger, imo. Also, Keita is 1,72m/64kg and Ndombele is 1,81m/76kg (sorry, I don't know the british metric system). I think it would be a nice balance because Jorginho is good defending but he is not THAT good.

We could keep our current midfield style and we could also have a big upgrade in terms of passing/dribbling/creativity.
 

lfc.eddie

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#44
What about City? The only physical/more defensive player they have in midfield is Fernandinho, who is shorter than Jorginho. And at 5'11 I wouldn't say he's particularly short for midfield. He's 4cm shorter than Can, 2cm shorter than Hendo.
Yeah, Lucas won quite a bit of aerial battle and he's about the same height as Jorghino, and standing at 1.8m, he isn't exactly a midget.
 

Iluvatar

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#45
What about City? The only physical/more defensive player they have in midfield is Fernandinho, who is shorter than Jorginho. And at 5'11 I wouldn't say he's particularly short for midfield. He's 4cm shorter than Can, 2cm shorter than Hendo.
Exactly! I think this clamber for height at no.6 is such a none starter.. Masher was a defensive mid (and a central defender) and was 5 foot nothing.. Kante plays no.6 and is smaller than Keita.. Lucas was hardly the tallest player around but aerially dominant, his reading of the flight and his jumping ability meant he often won over far taller players..

There are far more factors in play when defending the long ball (which is all we are talking about here).. One of your central defenders steps out to contest (and the DM drops back to cover the space), your DM doesn't compete but just is a presence next to the opponent with a focus on disruption and picking up the 2nd ball.
 

redfanman

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#46
Exactly! I think this clamber for height at no.6 is such a none starter.. Masher was a defensive mid (and a central defender) and was 5 foot nothing.. Kante plays no.6 and is smaller than Keita.. Lucas was hardly the tallest player around but aerially dominant, his reading of the flight and his jumping ability meant he often won over far taller players..

There are far more factors in play when defending the long ball (which is all we are talking about here).. One of your central defenders steps out to contest (and the DM drops back to cover the space), your DM doesn't compete but just is a presence next to the opponent with a focus on disruption and picking up the 2nd ball.
The clamour for height is coming largely because we lack it elsewhere, not simply because people think a 6 must have it.

Potts and Nicol where both short CBs in the English league in the 90's and got away with it.
 

Iluvatar

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#47
The clamour for height is coming largely because we lack it elsewhere, not simply because people think a 6 must have it.

Potts and Nicol where both short CBs in the English league in the 90's and got away with it.
I think 2 aerially dominant center halves and a keeper who is strong in the air and commands his box is more than enough.
 

Jayus20

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#48
Ndombele is physically stronger, imo. Also, Keita is 1,72m/64kg and Ndombele is 1,81m/76kg (sorry, I don't know the british metric system). I think it would be a nice balance because Jorginho is good defending but he is not THAT good.

We could keep our current midfield style and we could also have a big upgrade in terms of passing/dribbling/creativity.
Ndombele wins less headers a game than Keita does... We wouldn’t keep our current midfield style if we played Ndombele, Keita and Jorginho as both Ndombele and Jorginho would want to be our number 6. Unless you’re saying Ndombele instead of Jorgingo which I really hope you’re not.

You’re saying Jorginho isn’t that great at defending but he’s probably as good as Henderson and Keita is far better than anyone we’ve got currently. Jorginho seems to work best in the #6 role of a midfield 3 next to a defensively astute box to box and then a more attack minded player the other side ie Allan and Hamsik for Napoli or say Keita and Lallana for us. Bringing in Ndombele just doesn’t make any sense in my opinion as I honestly think we have more than enough defensive work rate in that midfield.

Personally I’d buy another aerially proficient CB like De Ligt to counteract a long ball game against us rather than mess with the balance of our midfield.
 

Koon

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#49
Ndombele wins less headers a game than Keita does... We wouldn’t keep our current midfield style if we played Ndombele, Keita and Jorginho as both Ndombele and Jorginho would want to be our number 6. Unless you’re saying Ndombele instead of Jorgingo which I really hope you’re not.

You’re saying Jorginho isn’t that great at defending but he’s probably as good as Henderson and Keita is far better than anyone we’ve got currently. Jorginho seems to work best in the #6 role of a midfield 3 next to a defensively astute box to box and then a more attack minded player the other side ie Allan and Hamsik for Napoli or say Keita and Lallana for us. Bringing in Ndombele just doesn’t make any sense in my opinion as I honestly think we have more than enough defensive work rate in that midfield.

Personally I’d buy another aerially proficient CB like De Ligt to counteract a long ball game against us rather than mess with the balance of our midfield.
To me Ndombele would never be a number 6. He is a B2B, imo,, and he is very similar to Keita, actually. Dribbles per game, key passes, fouls received, etc... Keita is superior defensive wise, though. But when we compare both when they have the ball, Ndombele is almost as good as Keita. I think he is a complete midfielder and he is only 21.

About Henderson.

I think he is not good defending and Henderson has almost the same stats as Jorginho, but Jorginho is much better in possession. Also Jorginho plays along Allan, basically a defensive player in the same Pirlo-Gattuso setup style. We are talking about Premier League and we need a little bit stronger players, especially because we have Robbo and Arnold + Mané and Salah. They can fight, but they are not very strong to challenge.

So when I'm talking about keeping our style, I'm saying we would have 3 players able to defend and fight, but instead of having players that can only defend, we would also have dribblers, three creative forces, two great B2B and one very good deep lying playmaker.

I don't think Ndombele is a defensive player, I think he is able to defend, but he is also very good attacking. Unless we are playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 next season (and I'm kinda positive Klopp won't change the 4-3-3 system), if we buy a third midfielder, he won't be a pure playmaker, it will be someone able to defend and attack (just like Goretzka, for example), and a strong player, not another Coutinho type. It will be a player closer to Keita than Coutinho.
 

Jayus20

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#50
To me Ndombele would never be a number 6. He is a B2B, imo,, and he is very similar to Keita, actually. Dribbles per game, key passes, fouls received, etc... Keita is superior defensive wise, though. But when we compare both when they have the ball, Ndombele is almost as good as Keita. I think he is a complete midfielder and he is only 21.

About Henderson.

I think he is not good defending and Henderson has almost the same stats as Jorginho, but Jorginho is much better in possession. Also Jorginho plays along Allan, basically a defensive player in the same Pirlo-Gattuso setup style. We are talking about Premier League and we need a little bit stronger players, especially because we have Robbo and Arnold + Mané and Salah. They can fight, but they are not very strong to challenge.

So when I'm talking about keeping our style, I'm saying we would have 3 players able to defend and fight, but instead of having players that can only defend, we would also have dribblers, three creative forces, two great B2B and one very good deep lying playmaker.

I don't think Ndombele is a defensive player, I think he is able to defend, but he is also very good attacking. Unless we are playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 next season (and I'm kinda positive Klopp won't change the 4-3-3 system), if we buy a third midfielder, he won't be a pure playmaker, it will be someone able to defend and attack (just like Goretzka, for example), and a strong player, not another Coutinho type. It will be a player closer to Keita than Coutinho.
Ahh I apologise then as when I looked at Ndombele ages ago he was primarily playing in a double pivot which is why I assumed he was a #6. From looking into a bit more now I see he's moved to the right or left hand side of a middle 3 so fair enough. However I still don't see Klopp signing another midfielder and it's always a concern signing someone like that from Ligue 1 as we've recently seen with Bakayoko so would depend on price imo.

Well I think Henderson's issues lie with his reading of the game. He often commits to tackles he shouldn't do leaving our defence exposed rather than properly covering our defenders, whereas I feel like Jorginho reads the game a lot better which should in theory help improve us defensively. Allan reminds me quite a bit of Keita personally, not sure how much you've watched of him but very similar players. A very defensively sound number 8 who's an excellent dribbler and has decent passing range, which is basically how I'd also describe Keita. Like I said, Ndombele isn't any better aerially or much stronger than Keita in my opinion. I think we'd be better off with one of our other 5 midfielders in the 3rd midfield spot and focus our money elsewhere (ie GK, RCB and new forward to rotate with Mane/Salah/Firmino).
 
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Zoran

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#51
Spurs aren't linked with him, they prefer Diawara apparently. So basically us or City but City seem to also really like Fred from Shaktar so I do think we're definitely favourites to land him.
Not sure if Fred is the one who Pep sees for the single pivot role. They might want two central midfielders (wouldn't surprise me), one to rotate with Fernandinho (and takeover from him in the near future) and another to be the second backup to Silva and De Bruyne alongside Gundogan. It's an area where they're not so blessed with options. They had 5 CM's this season (not counting Delph who moved to LB quickly or even Zinchenko) and that's including old Yaya. Weigl is another one who was mentioned. It's City, they have the financial power and the attractive footballing situation (that's what we also have, though probably even in that aspect not as much as them), who knows what they pick to do in the end. Yeah I believe we'll have a chance to sit down with Jorginho if we really want him and are willing to pay Napoli more or less what they want, but it also seems like he's getting interest from all sorts of places.
 

Jayus20

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#52
Not sure if Fred is the one who Pep sees for the single pivot role. They might want two central midfielders (wouldn't surprise me), one to rotate with Fernandinho (and takeover from him in the near future) and another to be the second backup to Silva and De Bruyne alongside Gundogan. It's an area where they're not so blessed with options. They had 5 CM's this season (not counting Delph who moved to LB quickly or even Zinchenko) and that's including old Yaya. Weigl is another one who was mentioned. It's City, they have the financial power and the attractive footballing situation (that's what we also have, though probably even in that aspect not as much as them), who knows what they pick to do in the end. Yeah I believe we'll have a chance to sit down with Jorginho if we really want him and are willing to pay Napoli more or less what they want, but it also seems like he's getting interest from all sorts of places.
Hmm fair, I don't know that much about Fred tbh just that he was linked with City and that he's described as a defensive midfielder on whoscored. I agree it's definitely an area they need to strengthen but I guess our advantage is that we could offer him basically guaranteed first team football week in week out whereas he'd be more of a rotation risk at City with Fernandinho just signing a two year extension and stuff. Guess we'll just have to see.
 

Iluvatar

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#53
Not sure if Fred is the one who Pep sees for the single pivot role. They might want two central midfielders (wouldn't surprise me), one to rotate with Fernandinho (and takeover from him in the near future) and another to be the second backup to Silva and De Bruyne alongside Gundogan. It's an area where they're not so blessed with options. They had 5 CM's this season (not counting Delph who moved to LB quickly or even Zinchenko) and that's including old Yaya. Weigl is another one who was mentioned. It's City, they have the financial power and the attractive footballing situation (that's what we also have, though probably even in that aspect not as much as them), who knows what they pick to do in the end. Yeah I believe we'll have a chance to sit down with Jorginho if we really want him and are willing to pay Napoli more or less what they want, but it also seems like he's getting interest from all sorts of places.
Fernandinho is 32 so for me I think Fred is the natural replacement.
That kid Foden will be playing sooner rather than later.. He is a fantastic talent and one Pep has raved about already.
 

inaiq

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#54
The clamour for height is coming largely because we lack it elsewhere, not simply because people think a 6 must have it.

Potts and Nicol where both short CBs in the English league in the 90's and got away with it.
The possibility that the "clamour" is due to comparatives to other teams/style.
Although height is a valuable asset, it's been shown, your examples, and examples is other positions too.
It is easier for a player to adapt positively due to lack of perceived height than it is for a taller player to adapt to lower centre of gravity attributes.
Hopefully, that makes sense. lol
 
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Gone Kloppo

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#55
Exactly! I think this clamber for height at no.6 is such a none starter.. Masher was a defensive mid (and a central defender) and was 5 foot nothing.. Kante plays no.6 and is smaller than Keita.. Lucas was hardly the tallest player around but aerially dominant, his reading of the flight and his jumping ability meant he often won over far taller players..

There are far more factors in play when defending the long ball (which is all we are talking about here).. One of your central defenders steps out to contest (and the DM drops back to cover the space), your DM doesn't compete but just is a presence next to the opponent with a focus on disruption and picking up the 2nd ball.
What about City? The only physical/more defensive player they have in midfield is Fernandinho, who is shorter than Jorginho. And at 5'11 I wouldn't say he's particularly short for midfield. He's 4cm shorter than Can, 2cm shorter than Hendo.
I may be wrong but I don't think I once mentioned height in my post. I was talking about Jorginho's abysmal Aerial Duel stats. Its clearly a weakness of both Naby and Jorginho:

Aerial duels won per game
Naby Keita 0.6 (0.6 last season)
Jorginho 0.5 (0.5 last season)
Emre Can 1.9 (2.1 last season)
Henderson 1 (1.1 last season)

Fernandinho 2.6
David Silva 0.6
Delph 0.9
De Bruyne 0.5

You obviously have the right to say aerial duel stats are irrelevant, but if we are planning on having a player with such an obvious weakness in our most defensive midfield position, expect teams to change their tactics against us in the future and exploit that weakness, particularly when aerial duels aren't a particular strength across the remaining team (where would we be without Emre hey ;-)). God, even some of City's more attacking players have better aerial stats than him. Jorginho isn't the shortest player around, but because of his lack of physical strength he plays short.

EDIT: More aerial duel stats from our rivals:

Kante 0.5 + M.Alonso 1.9
Matic 1.7 + Pogba 1.9

The more I think about it the more this looks like Jorginho pushing for a move than us actively chasing him. No way would we go into a season with our best midfielder aerially being Henderson. It could be that we will look to play him a bit more advanced with someone behind, but I think we need to replace what Can brings to the side. I prefer we dine at the big boys table and get someone like Vidal or Alcantara.

Nekminnit Klopp picks up some obscure nonname from a lower league, and I'll be fine with that :-)
 



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Zinedine Biscan

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#56
I may be wrong but I don't think I once mentioned height in my post. I was talking about Jorginho's abysmal Aerial Duel stats. Its clearly a weakness of both Naby and Jorginho:

Aerial duels won per game
Naby Keita 0.6 (0.6 last season)
Jorginho 0.5 (0.5 last season)
Emre Can 1.9 (2.1 last season)
Henderson 1 (1.1 last season)

Fernandinho 2.6
David Silva 0.6
Delph 0.9
De Bruyne 0.5

You obviously have the right to say aerial duel stats are irrelevant, but if we are planning on having a player with such an obvious weakness in our most defensive midfield position, expect teams to change their tactics against us in the future and exploit that weakness, particularly when aerial duels aren't a particular strength across the remaining team (where would we be without Emre hey ;-)). God, even some of City's more attacking players have better aerial stats than him. Jorginho isn't the shortest player around, but because of his lack of physical strength he plays short.
My bad then for misunderstanding. I would say though that I tend to lean towards the opinion of worrying about bringing in good players first and worrying about particular aspects of their game like that second. After all we're not party to Klopp's entire plan for our midfield, and I trust him to build the side he feels can best compete for honours.
 
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Iluvatar

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#57
I may be wrong but I don't think I once mentioned height in my post. I was talking about Jorginho's abysmal Aerial Duel stats. Its clearly a weakness of both Naby and Jorginho:

Aerial duels won per game
Naby Keita 0.6 (0.6 last season)
Jorginho 0.5 (0.5 last season)
Emre Can 1.9 (2.1 last season)
Henderson 1 (1.1 last season)

Fernandinho 2.6
David Silva 0.6
Delph 0.9
De Bruyne 0.5

You obviously have the right to say aerial duel stats are irrelevant, but if we are planning on having a player with such an obvious weakness in our most defensive midfield position, expect teams to change their tactics against us in the future and exploit that weakness, particularly when aerial duels aren't a particular strength across the remaining team (where would we be without Emre hey ;-)). God, even some of City's more attacking players have better aerial stats than him. Jorginho isn't the shortest player around, but because of his lack of physical strength he plays short.

EDIT: More aerial duel stats from our rivals:

Kante 0.5 + M.Alonso 1.9
Matic 1.7 + Pogba 1.9

The more I think about it the more this looks like Jorginho pushing for a move than us actively chasing him. No way would we go into a season with our best midfielder aerially being Henderson. It could be that we will look to play him a bit more advanced with someone behind, but I think we need to replace what Can brings to the side. I prefer we dine at the big boys table and get someone like Vidal or Alcantara.

Nekminnit Klopp picks up some obscure nonname from a lower league, and I'll be fine with that :-)
I just think it's a complete red herring. As you say Can is our best aerial midfielder, yet have we suffered when he doesn't play? I've never noticed personally.. Infact our best run with a midfield 3 was Henderson, Gini and Lallana.

My point was that aerial duel % can be missleading because it doesn't take into account the 2nd ball, or where the won ball ends up.. Stats are a good base, but without wider context they can be nearly useless. Say for example Jorginho only wins 40% of his aerial duals, on it's own that stat is poor, but what if every duel he loses he actually recovers the 2nd ball or he impacts the won header in such a way it leads to a loss in possession? What is better? Can winning 60% of duels where we actually lose the 2nd ball and the opponent retains possession? Or the above?

I like ZBs point, get the best player in and work out the kinks.. And Joringho is certainly a top quality player.

p.s. M.Alonso is a wingback so a bit unfair to include him as a midfielder.. Kante typically plays with someone like Fabregas or Drinkwater.
 

Zoran

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#58
Hmm fair, I don't know that much about Fred tbh just that he was linked with City and that he's described as a defensive midfielder on whoscored. I agree it's definitely an area they need to strengthen but I guess our advantage is that we could offer him basically guaranteed first team football week in week out whereas he'd be more of a rotation risk at City with Fernandinho just signing a two year extension and stuff. Guess we'll just have to see.
Fernandinho is 32 so for me I think Fred is the natural replacement.
That kid Foden will be playing sooner rather than later.. He is a fantastic talent and one Pep has raved about already.
I know he plays alongside Stepanenko in a midfield two and Stepanenko is the more defensive of the two. If Fred is one for the deepest role or one of the #8's (or able to cover both), we'll see, if City get him. Fernandinho gets a new deal yes, doesn't mean he remains a guaranteed starter if a better competition for his place arrives instead of Yaya and does well. Like I said, I believe we'll have a proper chance of attracting Jorginho if we want him (putting my opinion and emotion aside, he's an interesting target for sure, but I'm a bit careful with this one), but I wouldn't yet call us something like clear favourites to get him solely relying on 'game time'. There will be multiple things to consider, like always.
 

Iluvatar

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#59
I know he plays alongside Stepanenko in a midfield two and Stepanenko is the more defensive of the two. If Fred is one for the deepest role or one of the #8's (or able to cover both), we'll see, if City get him. Fernandinho gets a new deal yes, doesn't mean he remains a guaranteed starter if a better competition for his place arrives instead of Yaya and does well. Like I said, I believe we'll have a proper chance of attracting Jorginho if we want him (putting my opinion and emotion aside, he's an interesting target for sure, but I'm a bit careful with this one), but I wouldn't yet call us something like clear favourites to get him solely relying on 'game time'. There will be multiple things to consider, like always.
Do City play with an actual DM though? They converted half their central midfield to be no.10s.. Ripping up the rule book is Pep! On paper his team looks defensively weak as hell, in reality not so much :-)
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
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#60
I just think it's a complete red herring. As you say Can is our best aerial midfielder, yet have we suffered when he doesn't play? I've never noticed personally.. Infact our best run with a midfield 3 was Henderson, Gini and Lallana.

My point was that aerial duel % can be missleading because it doesn't take into account the 2nd ball, or where the won ball ends up.. Stats are a good base, but without wider context they can be nearly useless. Say for example Jorginho only wins 40% of his aerial duals, on it's own that stat is poor, but what if every duel he loses he actually recovers the 2nd ball or he impacts the won header in such a way it leads to a loss in possession? What is better? Can winning 60% of duels where we actually lose the 2nd ball and the opponent retains possession? Or the above?

I like ZBs point, get the best player in and work out the kinks.. And Joringho is certainly a top quality player.

p.s. M.Alonso is a wingback so a bit unfair to include him as a midfielder.. Kante typically plays with someone like Fabregas or Drinkwater.
Oh, we are still on the Emre Can roundabout are we?

Firstly, I hate talking about winning percentage between when a player is in or not in the team, because its not an oranges to oranges comparison. Who are the opponents? What form were we and the other team in? What other circumstances are there? But anyhow, with Emre Can, our winning percentage is 2PPG. Without him, its 1.8PPG. And that is with a ridiculously small sample size, because, you know, he has played 37 games and missed 6. Does Klopp rate him or what?

Is the '2nd ball' statement about Emre purely hypothetical or is that something you truly believe? Care to stand by that with some sort of figures? As for what is better, unless Jorginho's 2nd ball stats are through the roof compared to Emre's (fanciful), then no, I'd take the aerials won thanks. Winning an aerial duel means you have greater control over where the ball ends up. Sure, what you say can factor into it, but an aerial duel lost means there's a chance the result is a 50/50, but most likely the other guy has won it and played it to where you are disadvantaged. Naturally, winning more aerial duels will likely mean you win more second balls because the act of winning a header more often than not means you have an advantage once the ball is on the deck. '2nd balls won after a lost aerial duel' I doubt exists on the interwebs at all but I myself wouldn't be so confident one way or the other on who is statistically better in that department as there most likely is no evidence out there to prove it so its not a statement I would make or stand by.

As for Alonso, he doesn't play a true wingback role the majority of the time. He plays midfield left, having played a 3rd of his games in a 3-5-2 (where he would be considered a true wingback) but two thirds in a 3-4-2-1 where he was a left midfielder. At all times, the closest 'partner' to Kante has been Bakayoko - two thirds of the time they have been a DM pair, and one third of the time Kante has been flanked by both Bakayoko and Fabregas. Bakayoko has decent aerial stats - 1.3 duels won per game. The fact that Alonso isn't partnering Kante but plays elsewhere further strengthens the case that as a team, they have more individuals capable of winning an aerial duel than our team does. Two guys in Alonso and Bakayoko being able to provide aerial support for the weaker Kante and Fabregas.

Yes I will support Klopp as always no matter who he buys, but I doubt Jorginho is the guy he has in mind as our deepest player long term. Probably further up the field where Jorginho is also comfortable.
 
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