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Kai Havertz (AM) Bayer 04 Leverkusen

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
516
Not ruling him out just not sure I see what he would be bought for.

He seems like he can play number 8 but what we use our 8s for is a lot of the grunt work and heavy lifting. Now maybe he can do that I don't know. But seems a bit like attaching your touring caravan to a Porsche. Maybe he can do the grunt work so well he can also bring creativity to the CM at the same time but I look at how creative the likes of Keita, Wijnaldum, Ox and even Henderson can be without the shackles on and I don't think we are lacking the option of having creativity come from our CM it's just that's not its job. It's too busy doing other things so other players can do their thing.

At CF or false 9 it sounds like he could become an option but we have arguably the best false 9 currently playing in Firmino right now and both Minamino and Mane can do a decent enough job when Firmino is rested. In fact bringing Havertz in for that role kind of completely negates what we have done bringing Minamino in and casts him to one side.

Wide? We are a side that recorded 97 points last year, looking like we will beat that this year, been to back to back CL finals and won every international trophy in the last 12 months. We have done that largely based on the strength of our plan A 433. One of the essential parts of that working so well is because of the speed and goal threat Salah and Mane provide in the wide positions of the front 3. But after them we have a lot of different options that don't play like them doing a job. The one thing you could argue our attack needs is someone who plays like Mane and Salah (even if maybe not as good). Havertz would be yet another player who our tactics are altered for when we would use him wide. Not terrible to be in that situation if we already had him (like Klopp made real good use of Coutinho wide left sometimes when he was still here). But to purposely go out and spend mega money on someone who doesn't fit the role for our plan A doesn't make great sense.

He seems like, if we had him, he'd be a Jack of all trades for us. Some weaker opposition we could use him as a very offensive 8. Sometimes we could play 4231 with him as a prominent member of the 3. We could have him play false 9 more and more till eventually when Firmino gets older or moves on he could take over (but would he be patient enough and it'd really cut into opportunities for Minamino). And sometimes we could use him wide in a 433 when pace isn't as essential, maybe against slower/weaker fullbacks.

If we had him I'm sure we would use him loads but some players like Curtis Jones (particularly) would have a lot of their potential game time taken and I would feel like we would be looking for opportunities to squeeze him in more than doing it because it was the best way of winning. For the few times it would be the best options to look at for winning to use a player like him I really would like to see Jones be that guy we turn to. I really do think the local lad has the potential to be a special player himself and, yes, Havertz may be more special now and may always be the better player but I'm not convinced the difference will be great enough to spend a mega fee on for someone who would be nice to have and useful but not essential to the way we look to play 80-90% of the time.
That's a really good post, enjoyed reading that, as well as the replies from others. :)

If we were to sign Havertz I think it would be with a view of using him as a No.8 initially due to the options we have in the front 3 currently. That said, as I've said before I think his ability to find pockets of space and float in between the lines make him perfectly suited to a false 9, and that would also see him also play as a false 9.


In response to the tweet above, I think it's probably unlikely that Leverkusen are "expecting" Liverpool to bid in the summer, since if we are interested we would most likely already have made a bid by now given that Edwards and the recruitment guys plan two years in advance.

That said, if we do bring him and Werner in we'd look extremely good for the future. Next season would undoubtedly be one of transition for both Havertz and Werner, with an eye of them settling in with less pressure on them, and then growing into the team gradually while also being guaranteed plenty of extra game-time during AFCON. So they'd have a preseason with Klopp (albeit a shortened one due to Euro 2020), then August - December to settle, and then get counted on a lot more from January onwards.

--- Mané (27) -------- Firmino (28) --------- Salah (27) --
-- Werner (23) ----- Minamino (25) ------- Elliott (16) --
--------------------------------------------------------------
----------- Keita (24) ---------- Wijnaldum (29) ----------
------------- Ox (26) ----------- Havertz (20) ------------
----------- Jones (18) ---------- Milner (34) --------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------- Fabinho (26) -------------------------
-------------------- Henderson (29) -----------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
516
As much as both would be nice we aren't getting Werner and Havertz.
While I tend to agree and think it unlikely that we'll sign both, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility, and it actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it with a view of the long term plan.

The current "front 5" have been performing at an exceptionally high level for 3-4 years now, and sooner or later it'll be time to freshen up the squad. It's not only because of the players getting closer to their 30's, but also to do with motivation levels.

It's inevitable that a managers ideas will start to fade after a few years with the same players, and so every few years a manager either has to be changed, or the players. For example, Ferguson lasted so long because he kept refreshing the team he had, to keep things "new" year-to-year.

Now would be a great time to buy from a position of strength to set the squad up strongly for years to come, especially as we'll be entering a season where our best 4 attacking players will be missing significant portions of the season due to AFCON and Copa America (maybe even the Olympics too). It's the perfect opportunity to ease players in with less pressure on them for a season while still getting them plenty of gametime due to interferece from the international tournaments.
 

Jaytinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
226
I just dont see how this kid is over 100m, unless , well besides the market, Germans value potential more than anything
 

nobluff

Official TIA Match Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
1,853
I just dont see how this kid is over 100m, unless , well besides the market, Germans value potential more than anything
He will end up being about the same amount that de Jong went to Barcelona for, so approximately €75m, most likely less, with more add on’s. The idea from Bayer that he is worth 100m comes from the Felix move to Atletico, where they got fleeced for about €126.

de Jong had a pre transfer contract ending in June 2022.
Felix had a pre transfer contract ending in June 2023.
Havertz has a contract ending in June 2022.
 

vjcpatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
939
I agree. The press love to throw up sensational numbers because it grabs headlines. But I believe Havertz will sell for more around 75m euros than the 100m+ bandied about. He's got a boatload of potential but is having a bit of a down year in terms of numbers. I feel he will go for around Keita's pricetag plus a bit more due to inflation.

If Liverpool make a bid during the summer, I will be really excited. My top 3 targets for Liverpool are Mbappe, Sancho, and Havertz. As far as top end talent, there's not much better available in the world right now with very high end talent ceilings.