Kai Havertz (AM) Bayer 04 Leverkusen

Walshy07

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The club hasn't said we don't have £50m, only that it couldn't justify spending such an amount (on Werner). Maybe it's got £100m and it wants to bring in Havertz or Sancho as it's number 1 target? Spending up to £50m on Werner might scupper that.
Seems plausible. Hope so.
 

Richard88

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Not many players have the IQ to go with talent to play that false 9 as effectively as Firmino, and for that reason Firmino will be the hardest player to replace when it comes time for him to move on. That said, Havertz is a player who does have the IQ and talent to play that role, and would thus be the perfect long-term replacement for Firmino.

Note that I'm NOT saying that we should sell Firmino, but he's going to be 29 by the time next season starts, and his contract only runs until 2023 (at which stage he'll be 32) and so it would be prudent to at least start to think about what player(s) would be good replacements for him within 2-3 years.

Maybe the best way forward would be to sign Havertz and leave him at Leverkusen for a year (similar to what we did with Keita). That way Havertz would join for the 2021/22 season, at which stage Firmino will be 30 with 2 years left, and we could ease Havertz into the squad.
 

Limiescouse

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I cant see him moving to Chelsea. They are spending money earned from sales, not pumping in new money and much of that is already being accounted for by Ziyech and Werner. I dont think he is looking for his next move to be a 'project' but one that is already challenging or winning silverware.
And it leaves them with too many expensive players, or key homegrown players, being required to sit on the bench while still having holes at the back and in midfield. Even if they lose Pedro and Willian they still have Giroud, Abraham, Werner, Ziyech, Hudson Odoi, Mount and Pulisic for the 3 attacking spots.
 

redfanman

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Not many players have the IQ to go with talent to play that false 9 as effectively as Firmino, and for that reason Firmino will be the hardest player to replace when it comes time for him to move on. That said, Havertz is a player who does have the IQ and talent to play that role, and would thus be the perfect long-term replacement for Firmino.

Note that I'm NOT saying that we should sell Firmino, but he's going to be 29 by the time next season starts, and his contract only runs until 2023 (at which stage he'll be 32) and so it would be prudent to at least start to think about what player(s) would be good replacements for him within 2-3 years.

Maybe the best way forward would be to sign Havertz and leave him at Leverkusen for a year (similar to what we did with Keita). That way Havertz would join for the 2021/22 season, at which stage Firmino will be 30 with 2 years left, and we could ease Havertz into the squad.
I'm sure the club already have a dynamic list of targets to supplement or replace all current squad members. However, Firmino's is a pretty fit cookie and his game isnt built around pace, so I would think there isnt too much concern around replacing him yet, unless he himself is looking to move on.
 

Mascot88

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The club hasn't said we don't have £50m, only that it couldn't justify spending such an amount (on Werner). Maybe it's got £100m and it wants to bring in Havertz or Sancho as it's number 1 target? Spending up to £50m on Werner might scupper that.
The other way to look at it is that we can’t pay 50m up front (which is what Leipzig wanted) but 75m structure over five seasons is doable.

Not that I think we’re signing anyone on a huge deal. I don’t.
 

Red over the water

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I think the most likely outcome is no big deals for us this summer, while we keep our excellent squad together, add a bit of depth e.g. back up left back, but basically keep a watching brief on the new market.

However... Havertz or Sancho might be available, and it’s possible we decide to extend ourselves a little to make it happen, as the opportunity is too good to miss.

We are in a great position and I’m chilled watching how it unfolds. Can’t wait for the action to resume again soon, and to win that title!
 

PaulRoJo

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Maybe the best way forward would be to sign Havertz and leave him at Leverkusen for a year (similar to what we did with Keita). That way Havertz would join for the 2021/22 season, at which stage Firmino will be 30 with 2 years left, and we could ease Havertz into the squad.
But in our highly uncertain environment, especially regarding TV and gate revenue, the club would surely prefer to do the same (or a more expensive deal) in 12 months time with more certainty and less risk around transfers? If other clubs want to pay large now for him (surely not Chelsea again) then I'm guessing we would prefer to be conservative and stay out; unless we have been able to test the market ourselves and got some decent money for shaqiri et al?
 

spizfromoz

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Firmino is irreplaceable. If we sold him, even in two years, we'd need a whole new forward strategy.
 

GermanRed

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We were interested in Timo Werner 100% (didn’t happen because of wage demands) but I don’t think we’re in for Kai Havertz.

Don't think he is available for around £75m like some posters try to suggest. Leverkusen will still look out for +£90m this summer.

Think he’ll end up staying at Leverkusen (especially if they reach the CL) and the he'll move to Bayern on a 'cheap' with one year left on his contract or the year after on a free (Bayern may already have brainwashed him).

Understand the hype around Havertz but I don’t understand that hype from Liverpool fans. We don’t 'need' him.

Havertz is an elite talent but he is not on the level of Sancho - who also has the higher potential. I always felt like under the right manager (Klopp) Sancho will be a ballon d'or winner - I’m not seeing that with Havertz.
 

redfanman

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We were interested in Timo Werner 100% (didn’t happen because of wage demands) but I don’t think we’re in for Kai Havertz.

Don't think he is available for around £75m like some posters try to suggest. Leverkusen will still look out for +£90m this summer.

Think he’ll end up staying at Leverkusen (especially if they reach the CL) and the he'll move to Bayern on a 'cheap' with one year left on his contract or the year after on a free (Bayern may already have brainwashed him).

Understand the hype around Havertz but I don’t understand that hype from Liverpool fans. We don’t 'need' him.

Havertz is an elite talent but he is not on the level of Sancho - who also has the higher potential. I always felt like under the right manager (Klopp) Sancho will be a ballon d'or winner - I’m not seeing that with Havertz.
I think this could be the best time to sign big players a year in advance, like we did with Keita - as long as the initial down payment isnt too large, it can give the selling club some liquidity while keeping their primary asset for a bit longer.
 

GermanRed

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I think this could be the best time to sign big players a year in advance, like we did with Keita - as long as the initial down payment isnt too large, it can give the selling club some liquidity while keeping their primary asset for a bit longer.
Yes, players like Sancho or Mbappe who both have 2 years left on their contract.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We were interested in Timo Werner 100% (didn’t happen because of wage demands) but I don’t think we’re in for Kai Havertz.

Don't think he is available for around £75m like some posters try to suggest. Leverkusen will still look out for +£90m this summer.

Think he’ll end up staying at Leverkusen (especially if they reach the CL) and the he'll move to Bayern on a 'cheap' with one year left on his contract or the year after on a free (Bayern may already have brainwashed him).

Understand the hype around Havertz but I don’t understand that hype from Liverpool fans. We don’t 'need' him.

Havertz is an elite talent but he is not on the level of Sancho - who also has the higher potential. I always felt like under the right manager (Klopp) Sancho will be a ballon d'or winner - I’m not seeing that with Havertz.
I'm confused by this stance as Havertz does actually have the ability to play false 9 (which we play with) at a very high standard, play as a lone CF (which we sometimes switch to) to a very high standard and play as a number 8 (which we play with) to a very high standard. He can probably play wide to a certain degree too if we needed cover as a wide forward. Plus he has the the technical proficiency to play within our attack.

Werner is an ideal supporting striker (which we don't use), can play as a very offensive number 10 (which we don't use), or as a two man strike force (which we never set up with) playing off a target man (that we don't have) and can play wide (and may be able to adapt to how our wide players play). He does however have less technical proficiency than Havertz or our current front 3 so would need to develop further.

Neither of them are really a shoo in for what we really need which is a goal scoring left winger who can play similar to Mane/Salah either of them would be "making do" in that role but Havertz fits the team better and does at least play the roles we field regularly even if we don't have as much need in those positions. Werner would be coming in and adapting to us full stop.

And if you ignore the noise out of Germany (Werners camp) and it being repeated by British Journos the actual noise from our club is just as strong on Havertz as Werner, Klopp mentioned both the other day.
 

GermanRed

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I'm confused by this stance as Havertz does actually have the ability to play false 9 (which we play with) at a very high standard, play as a lone CF (which we sometimes switch to) to a very high standard and play as a number 8 (which we play with) to a very high standard. He can probably play wide to a certain degree too if we needed cover as a wide forward. Plus he has the the technical proficiency to play within our attack.

Werner is an ideal supporting striker (which we don't use), can play as a very offensive number 10 (which we don't use), or as a two man strike force (which we never set up with) playing off a target man (that we don't have) and can play wide (and may be able to adapt to how our wide players play). He does however have less technical proficiency than Havertz or our current front 3 so would need to develop further.

Neither of them are really a shoo in for what we really need which is a goal scoring left winger who can play similar to Mane/Salah either of them would be "making do" in that role but Havertz fits the team better and does at least play the roles we field regularly even if we don't have as much need in those positions. Werner would be coming in and adapting to us full stop.

And if you ignore the noise out of Germany (Werners camp) and it being repeated by British Journos the actual noise from our club is just as strong on Havertz as Werner, Klopp mentioned both the other day.
We don’t need Havertz because we have Firmino and we have Curtis Jones who can turn out to be our elite talent as a #8 / AM / LW.

Werner would have been a very good signing because he would have added goals. Goals our squad players like Origi, Shaqiri and Minamino are not providing enough.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We don’t need Havertz because we have Firmino and we have Curtis Jones who can turn out to be our elite talent as a #8 / AM / LW.

Werner would have been a very good signing because he would have added goals. Goals our squad players like Origi, Shaqiri and Minamino are not providing enough.
Isn't Havertz currently outscoring him when played as a CF? I repeat we actually field the positions Havertz plays whilst we don't field the ones Werner plays. Both would have to "make do" at left forward winger position if bought but at least one of them actually plays like us and in positions we field.
 

Iluvatar

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We don’t need Havertz because we have Firmino and we have Curtis Jones who can turn out to be our elite talent as a #8 / AM / LW.

Werner would have been a very good signing because he would have added goals. Goals our squad players like Origi, Shaqiri and Minamino are not providing enough.
Isn't the same arguement that we need Havertz to replace Firmino (as he ages), just like we need a "Sancho" to replace Mane/Salah for the same reason?

The good part is we have 2-3 years to sort it.

My view is Elliot and Jones are going to be proper stars, but we need 3/4 of them, hence the need for a Havertz + Sancho deal within a few years (I don't see any other talents internally).
 

GermanRed

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The guy who has 7 goals in 7 games played as a lone CF (a position we sometimes use) is scoring at a better rate than the guy who has 26 in 33 as a two man strike force (a formation we don't use).
When was this sometimes the last time?
 

Iluvatar

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The guy who has 7 goals in 7 games played as a lone CF (a position we sometimes use) is scoring at a better rate than the guy who has 26 in 33 as a two man strike force (a formation we don't use).
Can't recall who but a few people who have seen him regularly say Havertz has stepped up to another level since he moved to playing a more no.9 type role for the team. I always thought him of a bit of a Ballack type, i.e. no.10, but I think he's progressed beyond that now.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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When was this sometimes the last time?
Whenever we play 4231 or 4411 our back up formation. We never play 442 which is the formation Werner plays CF in from my understanding he hasn't played as a lone CF since Stuttgart has he?
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Does anyone see this or any other high money transfer realistically happening in the next couple of years? I just cant see it unless one of our main guys goes for big money. Weve announced publicly that we havent got the cash or dont want to take a risk in the current market. Income will dip next season it seems so it might not be until the following season that we look to really strengthen.

Id love Havertz here though. I mentioned him july last year as the guy id love but he wasnt really as know then.

If i could choose one realistic target it'd have to be Havertz. Looks like he's got everything. Could play anywhere in midfield or attack in our team I reckon. He's going to be a star 100%
 

Kopstar

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Does anyone see this or any other high money transfer realistically happening in the next couple of years? I just cant see it unless one of our main guys goes for big money. Weve announced publicly that we havent got the cash or dont want to take a risk in the current market. Income will dip next season it seems so it might not be until the following season that we look to really strengthen.

Id love Havertz here though. I mentioned him july last year as the guy id love but he wasnt really as know then.
Yeah, first I heard about him was from @Jimmyscase in May 2017.

Klopp should keep his eye on Leverkusen's Kai Havertz, if City poached Sané at the age of 18, why not us with this guy next year? Played 24 times in a poor side; 4 goals 6 assists.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Yeah, first I heard about him was from @Jimmyscase in May 2017.
Before I knew about him for sure. The club prob have had an eye on him since then or before even but players can go either way at that age. On hindsight, its a pity we didnt pick him up earlier but I read an interesting piece a while ago about why we dont go for the players before they go to saints etc even though they seem obvious good buys. Its probably the case with many players like havertz that we keep an eye on them then decide once they prove they are ready to step up. Theres good and bad about this tactic. We miss out on a few duds but then have to compete with other top clubs and pay a premium price if we do want to buy.
 

Limiescouse

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Before I knew about him for sure. The club prob have had an eye on him since then or before even but players can go either way at that age. On hindsight, its a pity we didnt pick him up earlier but I read an interesting piece a while ago about why we dont go for the players before they go to saints etc even though they seem obvious good buys. Its probably the case with many players like havertz that we keep an eye on them then decide once they prove they are ready to step up. Theres good and bad about this tactic. We miss out on a few duds but then have to compete with other top clubs and pay a premium price if we do want to buy.
For every kid like Gerrard who has the talent to step up straight from youth football, there are 50 kids with the talent to eventually make that step who would fail without a more gradual path to follow.
 

ILLOK

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Havertz has been well known for a while now. I saw him live over 2 years ago and there was plenty of chat about him at that point, think he was only 18 at the time. He did virtually nothing in the game but looked quality doing so.
 

Limiescouse

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Havertz has been well known for a while now. I saw him live over 2 years ago and there was plenty of chat about him at that point, think he was only 18 at the time. He did virtually nothing in the game but looked quality doing so.
Me and guy I know call that the Robert Pires rule. We had so many players during Houllier's time that people just kept waiting and waiting and waiting to turn good, constantly pointing to the likes of Henry and Pires who both struggled their first season before finding their feet. The difference was even on his most ineffective day, Pires showed more quality than Bruno Cheyrou ever showed. Sometimes you can see there is talent in a player even if they havent figured out yet how to turn that into having an influence on a game. That's especially true for kids.
 
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KillerBeeLFC

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For every kid like Gerrard who has the talent to step up straight from youth football, there are 50 kids with the talent to eventually make that step who would fail without a more gradual path to follow.
Yea, thats why I chuckle when people suggest we buy players who have had a handful of appearances.

Havertz has been well known for a while now. I saw him live over 2 years ago and there was plenty of chat about him at that point, think he was only 18 at the time. He did virtually nothing in the game but looked quality doing so.
I noticed him prob the 18/19 season, he does ooze quality. Just cant see it happening now though