Kai Havertz (AM) Bayer 04 Leverkusen

Red over the water

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With regard to a high money transfer happening in the next couple of years, I think it is quite possible. Obviously we are well placed to not have to force anything, but as other teams act, or are forced to act, who knows what deals might be around the corner for us?

This summer I expect It to be fairly quiet, but even then I’m not willing to say a big deal won’t happen.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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With regard to a high money transfer happening in the next couple of years, I think it is quite possible. Obviously we are well placed to not have to force anything, but as other teams act, or are forced to act, who knows what deals might be around the corner for us?

This summer I expect It to be fairly quiet, but even then I’m not willing to say a big deal won’t happen.
What suggests that we'll make big money move if the club have came out and said they cant afford it in the current climate?
Ive realised if you say what people want to here on here ppl lap it up lol
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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What suggests that we'll make big money move if the club have came out and said they cant afford it in the current climate?
Ive realised if you say what people want to here on here ppl lap it up lol
The club has money and importantly has future income. What isn't guaranteed is how much current income will still come in this year and how much future income will no longer come in. But we are a well run, financially strong/stable club with strong revenues and reserves. That does not mean we should commit to spending £50 million during the next 12 months during the most uncertain period for revenues and when we might need to request players take temporary deferments on their wages. Especially not for a player who will be a significant drop off from the starting front 3 and will start as a squad option.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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The club has money and importantly has future income. What isn't guaranteed is how much current income will still come in this year and how much future income will no longer come in. But we are a well run, financially strong/stable club with strong revenues and reserves. That does not mean we should commit to spending £50 million during the next 12 months during the most uncertain period for revenues and when we might need to request players take temporary deferments on their wages. Especially not for a player who will be a significant drop off from the starting front 3 and will start as a squad option.
So the club says they wont risk 50 million on a player but they'll spend 100 million? Cant see it personally.

Especially not for a player who will be a significant drop off from the starting front 3 and will start as a squad option.
Who do you want to replace with this first team player wholl walk straight into the first 11? If its a dig about werner then the "significant drop off" part is your opinion and not fact. As Ive said, the club wouldnt spend that amount of money even pre corona on a player they didnt think could contribute and all indications say that we were willing to spend on him. Havertz is moving at the end of the season and unless something big changes it wont be to us. How can the club spend 100 million after attempting to furlough staff? How would that look? Even on just that basis alone im pretty certain we wont be spending big and maybe not even next year unless someone goes. Im fine with whatever the club do we just need to be realistic
 

CymruRed

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So the club says they wont risk 50 million on a player but they'll spend 100 million? Cant see it personally.

It's possibly to do with the actual payment of the fee,it could be RBL want that buyout clause paid in full,thats £50mill in one lump sum,plus having to find his wages,thats roughly £60mill for him in the first year (£90mill over the full contract).Maybe the club think that with no African Nations cup and not needing the cover,the large fee and the fact he'll just be a back up to our front 3,£60mill for a back up player isn't worth the risk right now,when everyone is losing large sums of cash.

Now if an amazing player pops up for £100mill,thats a first team starter,once in a generation type talent and a must have (for arguements sake Havertz) ,then they'll probably bite the bullet and work out some kind of payment plan,depending on what that agreement is,it could be LFC only have to pay £20/30mill a season over 5 years,thats the difference between getting a good deal for £100mill compared to a £50mill one.

Also,with all these stories of wanting player A for X amount or the club can't afford player Z,it's all bollox,the club doesn't do it's transfers in the public eye,so half of whats being written is BS and the other half is all lies.If LFC don't buy a player its because Klopp doesn't want to add to what he's got,other than bringing the youth through this year,so he can save his funds for much needed strengthening in the future,when he decides to move on and replace say a Salah,Firmino,Mane,Henderson,cos those types of players are going to cost a small fortune.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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It's possibly to do with the actual payment of the fee,it could be RBL want that buyout clause paid in full,thats £50mill in one lump sum,plus having to find his wages,thats roughly £60mill for him in the first year (£90mill over the full contract).Maybe the club think that with no African Nations cup and not needing the cover,the large fee and the fact he'll just be a back up to our front 3,£60mill for a back up player isn't worth the risk right now,when everyone is losing large sums of cash.

Now if an amazing player pops up for £100mill,thats a first team starter,once in a generation type talent and a must have (for arguements sake Havertz) ,then they'll probably bite the bullet and work out some kind of payment plan,depending on what that agreement is,it could be LFC only have to pay £20/30mill a season over 5 years,thats the difference between getting a good deal for £100mill compared to a £50mill one.

Also,with all these stories of wanting player A for X amount or the club can't afford player Z,it's all bollox,the club doesn't do it's transfers in the public eye,so half of whats being written is BS and the other half is all lies.If LFC don't buy a player its because Klopp doesn't want to add to what he's got,other than bringing the youth through this year,so he can save his funds for much needed strengthening in the future,when he decides to move on and replace say a Salah,Firmino,Mane,Henderson,cos those types of players are going to cost a small fortune.
I have no doubt the money is actually there its just the case that no one knows when this will all go back to normal. Could easily be a year or 2 and by that time the club dont know what the finances will look like so its fair enough if they dont want to gamble. For the same reasons though, I cant see anyone coming in for high money whether its spread over a few seasons or not. The club will still have to pay it and things could get even worse in a year or 2 if no vaccine is found or the virus mutates, no one knows. You mention replacing players but i think our model is try to blood young players in or getting players just before they hit their peak for a good price. Most of our current first team come under those 2 categories. The areas weve spent big on are were we'd struggled to find anyone for years and klopp obviously thought fuck it, we need to pay for quality here because it isnt working on the cheap.
 

CymruRed

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I have no doubt the money is actually there its just the case that no one knows when this will all go back to normal. Could easily be a year or 2 and by that time the club dont know what the finances will look like so its fair enough if they dont want to gamble. For the same reasons though, I cant see anyone coming in for high money whether its spread over a few seasons or not. The club will still have to pay it and things could get even worse in a year or 2 if no vaccine is found or the virus mutates, no one knows. You mention replacing players but i think our model is try to blood young players in or getting players just before they hit their peak for a good price. Most of our current first team come under those 2 categories. The areas weve spent big on are were we'd struggled to find anyone for years and klopp obviously thought fuck it, we need to pay for quality here because it isnt working on the cheap.

Thats why i think Klopp will bring through youth,with possibly one LB back up signing,if we do spend any money this year.

Like you say,with this virus still around and finances up in the air,i think most of our transfer cash will be stashed away for when the market stabalizes or our major star players get moved on,which is why i think we pulled out of any Werner deal,as we didn't NEED him and the money wasn't right,but whether we replace our front 3 or big stars in stages or in one go,replacing them will cost big money,even if we do buy under the radar cheaper players,then turn them into stars.
 

GermanRed

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Thats why i think Klopp will bring through youth,with possibly one LB back up signing,if we do spend any money this year.
For how many transfer windows are we waiting for that LB cover singing now? :cautious:

Don't think it will happen this summer. Nothing changed. Milner still here and Klopp probably seems something in Larouci or one of the other kids for that position.
 

GermanRed

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I think one thing of the following could happen (sorted by likeliness)

1. We sing Depay or another versatile attacker for less than £30m

2. We sign Aouar - not that we really need him right now but available for less than €45m according to reports.

3. We sign Saka to cover Robbo and Sadio.

4. We sign young Schalke CB Malick Thiaw - i have this feeling since we were linked with him a few months ago.
 

JibJab

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I have no doubt the money is actually there its just the case that no one knows when this will all go back to normal. Could easily be a year or 2 and by that time the club dont know what the finances will look like so its fair enough if they dont want to gamble. For the same reasons though, I cant see anyone coming in for high money whether its spread over a few seasons or not. The club will still have to pay it and things could get even worse in a year or 2 if no vaccine is found or the virus mutates, no one knows. You mention replacing players but i think our model is try to blood young players in or getting players just before they hit their peak for a good price. Most of our current first team come under those 2 categories. The areas weve spent big on are were we'd struggled to find anyone for years and klopp obviously thought fuck it, we need to pay for quality here because it isnt working on the cheap.
Another factor to consider is that FSG is being squeezed by, at the very least, a significantly shortened (if not outright cancelled) MLB season as well. The Red Sox are a huge revenue generator for them, and to lose that revenue and the gate revenue from LFC is a financial blow.

That isn't to say that they couldn't afford to buy a high-priced player even absent the departure of one of our key players. But I can understand their reticence. I just think it is short-sighted to some degree. Guys like Havertz won't get cheaper once the revenue starts coming back. You strike while you can before the cost explodes, just like they tried to do with Mbappe when he was at Monaco.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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So the club says they wont risk 50 million on a player but they'll spend 100 million? Cant see it personally.



Who do you want to replace with this first team player wholl walk straight into the first 11? If its a dig about werner then the "significant drop off" part is your opinion and not fact. As Ive said, the club wouldnt spend that amount of money even pre corona on a player they didnt think could contribute and all indications say that we were willing to spend on him. Havertz is moving at the end of the season and unless something big changes it wont be to us. How can the club spend 100 million after attempting to furlough staff? How would that look? Even on just that basis alone im pretty certain we wont be spending big and maybe not even next year unless someone goes. Im fine with whatever the club do we just need to be realistic
Already went over this the other day;

There's a huge difference between paying a £50m release clause within the next 12 months and agreeing a deal that could rise up to £75m and its the other way round from what you think. If the 75 includes say 15 in performance clauses none of that would be payable till next summer at the earliest. The 60 left would probably be split into a payments structure of some form. 3 payments of 20 million or maybe even as much as 5 payments of 12 million. Paying something like between £12m - £20m this 12 months period is a lot more feasible than £50m. Werner is also getting 200k a week wages, what would Havertz be willing to accept? Would a temporary wage deferral (like the other players might be asked to take) be included in that? It could be a much easier deal to explain to the rest of the team. I don't think it will happen this year but its not as simple a situation as just "we can't afford 50 so we defo can't afford 75" we are actually more likely to be able to financially cope with this deal than that one.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Already went over this the other day;
But why would the club agree to 20 mill or whatever a year if no one knows how long this will go on? You cant just basically say "instalments" an think thats end of story. No on knows if its going to be months or years before things are "normal" again so I very much doubt theyll bank on being able to pay 20 million per year for 5 years. Also, teams will probably want more than than up front for a player like havertz. We dont just stroll up an say "were liverpool , we'll give you 20 mill per year" an they bite our hand off when you have the likes of bayern an reportedly real in for the same player. Just dont get your hopes up is all im saying
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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But why would the club agree to 20 mill or whatever a year if no one knows how long this will go on? You cant just basically say "instalments" an think thats end of story. No on knows if its going to be months or years before things are "normal" again so I very much doubt theyll bank on being able to pay 20 million per year for 5 years. Also, teams will probably want more than than up front for a player like havertz. We dont just stroll up an say "were liverpool , we'll give you 20 mill per year" an they bite our hand off when you have the likes of bayern an reportedly real in for the same player. Just dont get your hopes up is all im saying
You realise I'm not making it up right? Its how probably 90% of football transfers are done including the vast majority of our sales and purchases.

As towards why would we? This 12 month period is still the most damaging and uncertain, the club still has 100s of millions coming in and will still be selling players under similar arrangements.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Just to add that if Edwards (a master negotiator) can negotiate the payments on the purchase for the upper limit of like 5 years those installments could be fully covered by installments on sales for 3 years. 60 over 5 years is 12 per year, we could yet sell Shaqiri for about 25 million and Wilson for about 17 million over payment installments over 3 years, that would be 14 million a year coming in with 12 million going out over the first 3 seasons before the optional add ons.
 

teto_pp

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Another possibility is that Havertz price has gone done due to that no one is willing to pay 120m+ post coronavirus. So 30-40 million discount is something the club is interested. Add to the fact that he only has 2 years left on his contract and Leverkusen might be afraid of losing him for free, so they might be willing to sell him for less. Right now is the cheapest Kai is going to be and the club would rather spend the Werner money on a discounted Kai Havertz. Just a thought.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Another possibility is that Havertz price has gone done due to that no one is willing to pay 120m+ post coronavirus. So 30-40 million discount is something the club is interested. Add to the fact that he only has 2 years left on his contract and Leverkusen might be afraid of losing him for free, so they might be willing to sell him for less. Right now is the cheapest Kai is going to be and the club would rather spend the Werner money on a discounted Kai Havertz. Just a thought.
Possibility of course. Not sure i see us going big on a player this summer but if we do it'll be a stand out player which Havertz could be considered to be.
 

teto_pp

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Possibility of course. Not sure i see us going big on a player this summer but if we do it'll be a stand out player which Havertz could be considered to be.
Well your guess is as good as mine and almost every journalist. Only Klopp and Edwards know what 's really is going on, and it's better this way, no need to make it a drama that lasts all season.
 

Red over the water

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What suggests that we'll make big money move if the club have came out and said they cant afford it in the current climate?
Ive realised if you say what people want to here on here ppl lap it up lol
This summer I expect it to be fairly quiet. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if we pulled off a big move at some point, either this summer or sometime over the next two years, which I think was the time frame mentioned. We don’t have to chase it or reach for it, but it might present itself as other teams make some moves. I’m chilled either way as we are in a great position, both with the team we have, and also the players coming through.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Another possibility is that Havertz price has gone done due to that no one is willing to pay 120m+ post coronavirus. So 30-40 million discount is something the club is interested. Add to the fact that he only has 2 years left on his contract and Leverkusen might be afraid of losing him for free, so they might be willing to sell him for less. Right now is the cheapest Kai is going to be and the club would rather spend the Werner money on a discounted Kai Havertz. Just a thought.
Chelsea already paid sticker price for one top commodity. Teams won't sell their best players to the 'big teams' for any less.

The money that won't be around is for the likes of Grujic and Wilson. Teams will look for cheaper options and loans. With all due respect to Grujic/Wilson, there will be players available at cheaper prices that teams will hope can offer the same thing (or- they get them on loan again, instead of us seeing them sold). You can pay 20 mil for the proven commodity, or 6 mil for an unproven commodity you think can do the same thing. In today's market, most teams will go for the unproven player who's cheaper, where pre corona they may stump up the cash for the known.

The best footballers will be in demand and aren't easily replaced. There is no cheaper version of Havertz that you can plug and play for Liverpool (technically maybe there are- but you are still not getting a discount on that player- say Sancho goes slightly cheaper than Havertz for example, it's still sticker price) If teams can't afford them, the current clubs will hold on to them for a year and hope for market correction to what it was. It's just to much to think a team that thought they would get 100 mil shrug and accept 50. It's a gamble letting Havertz go to only a year left on contact, but he's talented enough to not go on a discount even then. Teams will still want him, and be willing to pay.

All that said, once we start playing again, I can easily see us pay sticker prices lol. Bad optics to do it during shut down. Come August, I expect at least one high profile transfer over the line.
 

spizfromoz

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We need another forward to mix it up, provide cover and rotation. A good one. Next Africa Cup of nations will kill us. As will one injury.
 

rupzzz

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We need another forward to mix it up, provide cover and rotation. A good one. Next Africa Cup of nations will kill us. As will one injury.
Havertz is not a forward?

On the issue of injury (rather than AFCON), we still have the best 4th choice striker in the world in Origi, and Minamino hasn't had a chance yet. Plus we have Elliot coming through too.

I'd quite like us to go and sign some spangly new player this summer, but it just blocks the smart moves that Klopp and the club have made to date to do what the likes of Barca, Bayern, Juve and Real Madrid do year in year out, and go and sign players just because.
 

Mascot88

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We need another forward to mix it up, provide cover and rotation. A good one. Next Africa Cup of nations will kill us. As will one injury.
I think ‘kill us’ is far too strong. An injury to Bobby, Mo or Sadio would be inconvenient. It wouldn’t derail the season. We can cope.