Kylian Mbappé (FW) PSG

What will Mbappe be leaning on?

  • The number 6, which he cheekily turns upside down into a 9, waggling his eyebrows

  • Mikey Edward's elephant-sized cock

  • Piled up lifesized cutouts of Benteke, Carroll, Jovanovic, and Voronin

  • Maria's tea set

  • ISMF's ego for starting this thread

  • A simple conference table, because he has fully accepted being a humble part of the red machine

  • The burnt-out remains of the redcafe server

  • None of the above coz he ain't fookin comin', man

  • A big VAR screen, to freak out all Abu Dhabi fans


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vjcpatriot

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Then you don't get it. PSG is nobody's boyhood club. I've speaken to plenty of French people who don't actually like PSG. They just happen to be the wealthiest club in France and they buy up all the talent so they win the Ligue 1 title each year.

Most French people far prefer their regional teams over PSG. Also PSG is not owned by the French, it is actually owned by Qatar via QSI since 2011.

You have to consider that once Mbappe made it out of Academy he chose to go to Monaco rather than PSG. Which shows to me he doesn't consider PSG his 'boyhood club' he preferred to play at Monaco.

If Mbappe chose to come to Liverpool, I would welcome him with open arms rather than suspicion. He chose to join a club that competes at the highest levels both in the Champion's League and domestically in the Premier League.

Also, I don't like players who do this to their clubs unless they are doing it because they want to play for their boyhood club. It isn't a good sign of their character.
 

ubermick

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Then you don't get it. PSG is nobody's boyhood club. I've speaken to plenty of French people who don't actually like PSG. They just happen to be the wealthiest club in France and they buy up all the talent so they win the Ligue 1 title each year.
That's not true, tho. It's like saying "Nobody likes the top club in X league". One of my best mates in America is a native Parisienne who was born and reared a PSG fan, and lived through the years when Lyon won it seven years on the bounce. Fair enough they're the Citeh of France, and they have a shedload of bandwagon fans, but there's a fair few lads who've been with them through thick and thin.

Buuuuuut, the rest of your premise is 100%. Mbappe didn't go to PSG because they're a club he's always had a soft spot for - they threw a stupid amount of money at Monaco to make them say "Er, Kylian lad, you're offski" and subsequently enough to Mbappe to say "Yep, no worries!"
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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No one is saying it is only about money. It isnt simply a case of accepting what Salah is on or getting what PSG were prepared to pay him - there is a middle ground which you seem to be ignoring for no good reason.

As far as i understand it, Mbappe has his own range - thats why they would be raising their payments to him. Whether he comes here or goes to Madrid he will most likely see the sales of that range increase. They arent going to pay him more simply to sell Liverpool shirts as that would most likely just cannibalise their own sales.
You seem convinced that his reason to leave is the wages on offer at PSG aren't enough. This flies in the face of what he has said, what reports on the situation have said and common sense. Nobody leaves PSG for higher wages. They go and stay there if that is their motivation. He won't need his PSG wages to be improved to move. He is wanting to move for sporting reasons.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Yeah, but there is some risk . What if he got a serious injury. Also, look at the likes of Eriksen at Spurs. At one point, rumour had it Real Madrid were in for him. By the end, it was just the Italian teams trying to buy a good player on the cheap. His level dropped considerably because he wasn't totally committed anymore and the club were not committed to playing him as they knew he was a turn coat. Emre Can is another example. Obviously, Mbappe is a level way higher than either of these so everyone is probably in for him no matter what. I am just saying that there is still some risk to doing it. Also, I don't like players who do this to their clubs unless they are doing it because they want to play for their boyhood club. It isn't a good sign of their character.
Emre Can got a move to one of the historically and currently biggest sides around. In one of the leagues he wanted to play in, for great wages and where he was guaranteed to be picking up medals. After he arrived it didn't work out but at the point of the move only Real or Barca would have probably been higher on his wish list. What happened to Eriksen was more to do with the Spurs collapse and Mourinhos world famous great man management skills than anything Eriksen himself did. And if he had waited 6 more months he would have had even better options. Not sure those examples show what you think they do but also arent that reflective of top talent running down their contracts and leaving on free deals (like Lewandowski or Ballack) or getting to force their club to choose the deal they want when its below their value (Kagawa from Dortmund to United springs to mind).
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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You obviously havent been reading my posts because i have never made that claim.
Your last response was basically a counter point saying that his combined income from us and Nike matching his current combined income from PSG and Nike wouldn't be enough because he wanted more. To state it again. If Nike increase what they pay Mbappe to what they pay Neymar (very possible) it would be a bigger difference than the difference between what PSG pay Mbappe and what we pay Salah.

The argument that we can't afford Mbappe due to his wages doesn't hold up. Only if, on top of that income increase he would almost certainly get by such a move (that doesn't have to be to us but none of the other clubs that fit the criteria could hope to sign him) he still wanted MORE money from us. So he was after a significant combined salary increase after the move not a match/slightly better combined salary. Keep in mind Nike aren't the only commercial partner he could sign up with. If his none Nike commercial deals matched Salahs none Adidas commercial deals Mbappe would get another increase to his combined income.

Nothing I've seen or read about Mbappes motivations for leaving PSG are financial and nothing I've seen or read on his personality suggests he is that kind of person. He is regarded as a very humble young guy despite his status and a large portion of his earnings go towards helping others. He is more in line with Salah and Mane than Neymar or Cristiano by all reports.

If he is greedy and just after the money he simply wouldn't be coming here anyway and conversations about whether we could do it are pointless. But Klopp spoke about his personality as an example to young players to aim for and also said there was no reason not to sign him from PSG except for the money it would require to get him (as in what it would take for PSG to sell) saying nobody in the world had that kind of money. I don't think Klopp would say such things about Pogba or Neymar would he?

The thing is Klopp is saying nobody in the world could afford to buy him at what PSG would ask for. But PSG will need to sell him this summer or next summer or lose him for free a year later. PSG will have to, this summer or next, get more realistic about how much they would accept. With our squad being so balanced throughout the side and needing next to no additions I really believe we could funnel all our finances for a year or two into one mega signing. Very few sides in the world can buy a player for 100 million or more. Nearly all of them have to sell a more expensive player (or two or three to combine) to do it. He is leaving pretty much the only club that has done it off the cuff.

I don't know if we will make a move for him (although I'm convinced we will make a move for a top forward, and one that could cost an eye watering fee). I'm just convinced that we can if we want to. I'm also convinced there is a need in the side that he would meet. I'm also willing to guarantee that if this club (who even keep deals for the likes of Minamino on the quiet) is trying to bring in a top forward, especially someone like Mbappe, there is no way it would be getting talked about by anyone "reliable" till it was done.
 

redfanman

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Your last response was basically a counter point saying that his combined income from us and Nike matching his current combined income from PSG and Nike wouldn't be enough because he wanted more. To state it again. If Nike increase what they pay Mbappe to what they pay Neymar (very possible) it would be a bigger difference than the difference between what PSG pay Mbappe and what we pay Salah.
Notice how this isnt anything remotely like what you claimed i said in your earlier post.

He is one of the most wished for attacking players in the game and he is prepared to turn down 2 or 3 times the salary at PSG to move. He signed his current contract 2 or 3 years ago. Why wouldnt he or his agent be seeking an increase in salary upon moving clubs?

PSG are also a Nike team. You say they are paying Neymar a considerable amount while at the same club - so why arent Nike also paying Mbappe similar already?

The argument that we can't afford Mbappe due to his wages doesn't hold up. Only if, on top of that income increase he would almost certainly get by such a move (that doesn't have to be to us but none of the other clubs that fit the criteria could hope to sign him) he still wanted MORE money from us. So he was after a significant combined salary increase after the move not a match/slightly better combined salary. Keep in mind Nike aren't the only commercial partner he could sign up with. If his none Nike commercial deals matched Salahs none Adidas commercial deals Mbappe would get another increase to his combined income.
I dont think anyone has said we cant afford his wages. It's the impact this could have on the squad and the club's finances more generally thats the issue - look at what happened when Utd signed Sanchez and the resulting pay negotiations for new contracts with the rest of the squad. It's also the impact on other deals or infrastructure projects at the club that can no longer be done as easily from spending the sum of money it would take to bring him in.

Also interesting that it was Nike who would pay the difference, now its all his other endorsements. Why did we even bother giving Salah and Mane such big increases in their salaries if they can get all this money from endorsements just for playing for us?

Nothing I've seen or read about Mbappes motivations for leaving PSG are financial and nothing I've seen or read on his personality suggests he is that kind of person. He is regarded as a very humble young guy despite his status and a large portion of his earnings go towards helping others. He is more in line with Salah and Mane than Neymar or Cristiano by all reports.
No one is saying his motivations are financial. That doesnt mean his camp wouldnt seek to get an improved pay offer from what ever club he would join.

The thing is Klopp is saying nobody in the world could afford to buy him at what PSG would ask for. But PSG will need to sell him this summer or next summer or lose him for free a year later. PSG will have to, this summer or next, get more realistic about how much they would accept. With our squad being so balanced throughout the side and needing next to no additions I really believe we could funnel all our finances for a year or two into one mega signing. Very few sides in the world can buy a player for 100 million or more. Nearly all of them have to sell a more expensive player (or two or three to combine) to do it. He is leaving pretty much the only club that has done it off the cuff.
The bolded equally applies for other clubs wanting to sign him no? If the situation makes it easier for us to consider an affordable offer, then it also applies to Real Madrid, his preferred destination. Not only do they have less debt than us, and higher revenues, they have players coming off their wage bill this summer that could generate funds for a bid, and cover his wages, and players in the squad that they could use in exchange that PSG might have an interest in given the state of their own squad.

We could funnel our funds into this mega signing - but then that weakens our squad rebuild over the next couple of years which is why i dont see this deal happening. PSG will hold out for around 200m euros. Even if he gets to his last year on his contract i would still think they could get a big chunk of that fee. I dont know enough about their owners, but i wouldnt be surprised if they were not all that bothered about losing him on a free. They probably have ways of funnelling cash into the club to overcome any financial issue that would result from that.
 

Prolix

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[...]
PSG are also a Nike team. You say they are paying Neymar a considerable amount while at the same club - so why arent Nike also paying Mbappe similar already?
[...]
Just to respond to one minor point in this discussion: the reason is 136 million Twitter/Instagram followers (Neymar 178.5m - Mbappé 42.5m).
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Notice how this isnt anything remotely like what you claimed i said in your earlier post.

1 He is one of the most wished for attacking players in the game and he is prepared to turn down 2 or 3 times the salary at PSG to move. He signed his current contract 2 or 3 years ago. Why wouldnt he or his agent be seeking an increase in salary upon moving clubs?

2 PSG are also a Nike team. You say they are paying Neymar a considerable amount while at the same club - so why arent Nike also paying Mbappe similar already?



3 I dont think anyone has said we cant afford his wages. It's the impact this could have on the squad and the club's finances more generally thats the issue - look at what happened when Utd signed Sanchez and the resulting pay negotiations for new contracts with the rest of the squad. It's also the impact on other deals or infrastructure projects at the club that can no longer be done as easily from spending the sum of money it would take to bring him in.

4 Also interesting that it was Nike who would pay the difference, now its all his other endorsements. 5 Why did we even bother giving Salah and Mane such big increases in their salaries if they can get all this money from endorsements just for playing for us?


6 No one is saying his motivations are financial. That doesnt mean his camp wouldnt seek to get an improved pay offer from what ever club he would join.



7 The bolded equally applies for other clubs wanting to sign him no? If the situation makes it easier for us to consider an affordable offer, then it also applies to Real Madrid, his preferred destination. Not only do they have less debt than us, and higher revenues, 8 they have players coming off their wage bill this summer that could generate funds for a bid, and cover his wages, and 9 players in the squad that they could use in exchange that PSG might have an interest in given the state of their own squad.

10 We could funnel our funds into this mega signing - but then that weakens our squad rebuild over the next couple of years which is why i dont see this deal happening. 11 PSG will hold out for around 200m euros. 12 Even if he gets to his last year on his contract i would still think they could get a big chunk of that fee. 13 I dont know enough about their owners, but i wouldnt be surprised if they were not all that bothered about losing him on a free. They probably have ways of funnelling cash into the club to overcome any financial issue that would result from that.
1. If he and his agent wanted an increase in salary they'd stay at the highest paying club in Europe, they wouldn't move. That will not be their motivation for moving if they do it.

2. The profile of the league (standing and media exposure) is a huge feature in this. The French league just simply doesn't cut it. Neymar's deals with Nike were agreed when he was in La Liga which doesn't quite match Premier League for satuation.

3. I'm saying because of the increase in his income from improved deals from Nike (to match what they pay Neymar so not unrealistic) that if we put him on the same wage as Salah he would match or slightly beat his current salary so if he has financial considerations it would at least satisfy those considerations without damaging our wage structure or making him higher paid (by us) than our other top stars. VvD is apparently getting put on the same wage.

4. You've misunderstood me. Neymar level Nike deal plus Salah level wages could be as much or slightly more than current Mbappe Nike deal and PSG wages. He wouldn't lose out. On top of that Mbappe playing in the Premier League would be more marketable to other endorsements than Mbappe playing in France is. So his combined income from us, Nike and other endorsements could actually end up being quite a bit more than his current combined income anyway, even if we (LFC) pay less in wages. He could still be significantly better off financially after the move.

5. Salah and Mane get more because Klopp and our club believe in players earning what they are paid and being rewarded for the club doing well off the back of their work. The club didn't have to do it and via endorsements those players income still would have increased due to their performance on the pitch but it is the right thing to do and creates a good meritocracy atmosphere and culture here.

6. Nobody is saying he wouldn't seek to get better paid but that doesn't mean he wouldn't seek to get better paid. So you're saying you're not saying something that you then go on to say. Glad we resolved that confusion.

7 Yes it does but how many clubs can afford to put over 100 million into a single player? So far PSG and clubs that have sold a player/players for over 100 million have done this. All other clubs have more than one player they require. Its not unthinkable that another club could muscle together the kind of fee needed but the clubs likely to be possibilities are either clubs Mbappe wouldn't go to (like City, middle or far east sides) or actually its not 100% clear that's how they'd want to spend what money they do have (Barca and Real may go for Neymar if they can do such deals and Real may use what money they have to address several needs not just bring in one player).

8 Players coming off wage bill doesn't help make a bid. I've no doubt they could match or beat any wage offer from anyone but PSG. But the rest of Mbappes wages from other sources may not see the same increase they would see coming here which kind of balances that out a little. But how are they affording the fee when they have no significant player sales meaning finances coming in and several areas of their squad to address? I'm not saying it can't happen just they have other things to do as well.

9 What players? Have you looked at Real Madrid recently? A lot of aging players winding down contracts and promising youngsters they need to build the core of their squad around. Anyone PSG could want is likely leaving for buttons anyway this summer or next or Real need to keep hold of because they can't afford to replace everyone. And if they are trying to replace significant numbers then they REALLY can't afford too much of the finances poured into a deal for one player.

10 Why would it effect us. One big attacking signing could be balanced out by 100-150 of outgoing players and we are in transfer positive for this year. What rebuild would we need to do over the next year or two after an Mbappe arrival?

11 As Klopp said nobody in the world can afford that.

12 Who on Earth pays over a 100 million for a 22 year old if they can get him for free at 23? Time is on their side. This is the long game I believe Real are trying to play. 80-100 million offer summer 2021 or sign him for free summer 2022.

13 PSG have tried every accounting trick under the sun and are literally in danger of getting kicked out of Europe as things stand. They need to appease the authorities on FFP at the moment not spit in their faces. And they've got a bit of a rebuild to sort themselves. Selling Mbappe and/or Neymar would be a quick way to solve all their issues. If a club can afford either player (which, ironically, only PSG could hope to buy players at the values PSG are putting on them, hence Klopps comments which might have been carefully weighted for specific purposes) they could rebuild their side and still potentially walk away with a positive net spend to get FFP off their back for a bit.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Just to respond to one minor point in this discussion: the reason is 136 million Twitter/Instagram followers (Neymar 178.5m - Mbappé 42.5m).
Many people don't seem to realise how much of a back water the French League is considered from a sporting and marketing perspective!
 

Prolix

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[...]
4. You've misunderstood me. Neymar level Nike deal plus Salah level wages could be as much or slightly more than current Mbappe Nike deal and PSG wages. He wouldn't lose out. On top of that Mbappe playing in the Premier League would be more marketable to other endorsements than Mbappe playing in France is. So his combined income from us, Nike and other endorsements could actually end up being quite a bit more than his current combined income anyway, even if we (LFC) pay less in wages. He could still be significantly better off financially after the move.
[...]
This seems to be more or less how I've understood Kopstar's explanation of how it would work.

Which isn't to say that we could guarantee to offer him the most money of every club in the world, but that if he wants to come here money won't be an issue.
 

alaskared

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We don't need to buy stars. We MAKE stars!

No doubt he is a great player, but this click bait "rumour"is such a load of crap. On top of it he has been too exposed to the big egos at PSG now, not sure if he fits the right mentality profile Jurgen likes.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We don't need to buy stars. We MAKE stars!

No doubt he is a great player, but this click bait "rumour"is such a load of crap. On top of it he has been too exposed to the big egos at PSG now, not sure if he fits the right mentality profile Jurgen likes.
Klopp has already said he is an example to young players on how to deal with the fame and still stay grounded. And at the time we bought them Van Dijk was the most expensive defender and hottest defensive property in the world, same with Alisson as Goalkeeper. Keita wasn't exactly an uncut gem nobody had heard of he was one of the most well known CMs on the market and wanted by a lot. Mbappe is 21, he may be good now but imagine how much development he still has ahead of him. Now imagine if that development was under Klopp.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Articles with actual quotes from Klopp on Mbappe. He really doesn't talk this way about many players at other clubs. But always respectful to PSG unlike ZZ at Real.
 

jim bouki

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Quote from an article on Liverpool - Mbappe:
“Liverpool’s vision would be to sign the Mbappé who left AS Monaco in 2017 rather than the one who eventually leaves PSG.”
He was still $180 million when he left Monaco?! Maybe the club would pay close to 180 for him now?! But if the supposed $250m deal to real is true than good riddance, we can buy 35 Minamino's for that money.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Quote from an article on Liverpool - Mbappe:
“Liverpool’s vision would be to sign the Mbappé who left AS Monaco in 2017 rather than the one who eventually leaves PSG.”
He was still $180 million when he left Monaco?! Maybe the club would pay close to 180 for him now?! But if the supposed $250m deal to real is true than good riddance, we can buy 35 Minamino's for that money.
But we literally only need to add an attacking upgrade to Shaqiri (who at least fits our plan A better, something Minamino doesn't) and maybe a player who can play left back. Not 35 players. We need to make sure we sign the best player that fits our needs. If we can find 2017 Mbappe that is fine but they come along every once in a blue moon and don't always end up living up to expectations. They can also do a Bobby Duncan and let it all go to their heads. 2020 Mbappe is there, the real deal. Signed sealed delivered and currently not let it go to his head. If we can get him and if it doesn't harm us in any other way it would be daft not to do it just because we hope a cheaper player may get to the same level.
 

Nikola

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Quote from an article on Liverpool - Mbappe:
“Liverpool’s vision would be to sign the Mbappé who left AS Monaco in 2017 rather than the one who eventually leaves PSG.”
He was still $180 million when he left Monaco?! Maybe the club would pay close to 180 for him now?! But if the supposed $250m deal to real is true than good riddance, we can buy 35 Minamino's for that money.
It's from Reddy's latest article, isn't it? I think she was referring to Klopp's talks with Mbappe before he signed the new contract with Monaco, I think even before he got his starting spot. There were actually clips of his goals for Monaco's youth team doing the rounds at the time. One could see he was a talent but to go on and become the player he is... Wow. It's a shame that he's so fixated on Real Madrid but everyone had their dreams.
 

Dimitriy

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My position on sponsorship is slightly different (to getting directly into bed with Nike) but relevant.

36% of Salah income comes from sponsorship
13% of Mbappes income comes from sponsorship.

This means that even though Liverpool pays their players less, their total income (in Salahs case primarily topped up by Adidas, EA sports and Uber) is not that different.

It's one of the perks of playing in the premier League vs playing in farmers league. Even players like Ozil earn 50% more from their sponsorship deals than Mbappe.

This is one of the reasons PSG need to pay such high wages, as players know they are frequently better earning less elsewhere but reaping the rewards of increased exposure.
Great post!
... I wasn't aware that Mbappe has such low sponsorship ratio...just checked it!
Apropo Salah...The difference in earnings is around 30.000 weekly, or about 1.500.000 eur anualy. It may look much for most of us. In the figures of football and sponsorship, can be tolerated. Still, there's the offer from PSG, of around 25mil...And the impending bonuses !?...Again, if the ratio is, as such. Nike will most certainly raise it...and there lays, the mastery of negotiations!!!
If we are in fact interested!?
-Nike wouldn't like it too much, him being at Real, and potentialy losing the no1 marketeer in football
-Liverpool's live match coverage is about 76-80%. Next year it will rise, just by winning the league. Bringing someone like Kylian, well...
Would he bite, if we present competitive offer...
-The appeal of winning the PL. Just by that would get him a legendary status, and it wouldn't be too difficult for him to decipher
-Jurgen Klopp!!!
-The best suporters in the world !!!
...However:unsure:
-It seems inevitable losing Mo
-The stadium capacity in regards of the...suply v. demands. Him in the club, could/would invite diferent crouds
 
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redfanman

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1. If he and his agent wanted an increase in salary they'd stay at the highest paying club in Europe, they wouldn't move. That will not be their motivation for moving if they do it.
No, that would only be true if maximising his salary was his primary concern. Again, no one is saying that is his primary motive except you as a straw man. Do you not think that most players coming to Liverpool see a rise in their salary? Do you think in the non football world when someone is looking to move jobs for a non money motive they don't look to see if the new job will pay them more than their old one?

4. You've misunderstood me. Neymar level Nike deal plus Salah level wages could be as much or slightly more than current Mbappe Nike deal and PSG wages. He wouldn't lose out. On top of that Mbappe playing in the Premier League would be more marketable to other endorsements than Mbappe playing in France is. So his combined income from us, Nike and other endorsements could actually end up being quite a bit more than his current combined income anyway, even if we (LFC) pay less in wages. He could still be significantly better off financially after the move.
I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm distinguishing between what he gets from endorsements and what he may view as recompense for coming to Liverpool football club. If he or his agent believe the club will benefit from increased revenues upon his signing from sales or sponsorship they may feel entitled to ask for a slice of that. If he plays for City or Real Madrid he is most likely going to get a higher salary and increased endorsements, so why not also us?

6. Nobody is saying he wouldn't seek to get better paid but that doesn't mean he wouldn't seek to get better paid. So you're saying you're not saying something that you then go on to say. Glad we resolved that confusion.
You're finding it confusing because you are again misrepresenting what i have said. I have stated on multiple occasions that money is not his primary motive for moving. That doesnt stop him or his camp from trying to get more money than he is currently earning in salary. Not moving for money but trying to get a pay rise from the move is not mutually exclusive.

7 Yes it does but how many clubs can afford to put over 100 million into a single player? So far PSG and clubs that have sold a player/players for over 100 million have done this. All other clubs have more than one player they require. Its not unthinkable that another club could muscle together the kind of fee needed but the clubs likely to be possibilities are either clubs Mbappe wouldn't go to (like City, middle or far east sides) or actually its not 100% clear that's how they'd want to spend what money they do have (Barca and Real may go for Neymar if they can do such deals and Real may use what money they have to address several needs not just bring in one player).
Why wouldnt Mbappe go to City? And, why would Real Madrid want to go for Neymar over Mbappe?

8 Players coming off wage bill doesn't help make a bid. I've no doubt they could match or beat any wage offer from anyone but PSG. But the rest of Mbappes wages from other sources may not see the same increase they would see coming here which kind of balances that out a little. But how are they affording the fee when they have no significant player sales meaning finances coming in and several areas of their squad to address? I'm not saying it can't happen just they have other things to do as well.
8 players, particularly if they are high earners, coming off the wage bill does help the bid because as you know the full price of the player isnt usually paid all upfront - it provides space to accommodate whatever wages they wish to give him, it also means that what chunk of the wage bill is not spent going forwards can be saved to pay for future instalments on his fee.

Real Madrid are probably THE name in world football. Not only can they afford to pay double the wages we do, they also attract a lot of attention, so it is probably very likely he will be earning at least as much from other sources as he will here. Ronaldo, Courtois, Varane, Hazard, Cajaval, Modric and Asencio are all Nike sponsored.

What players? Have you looked at Real Madrid recently? A lot of aging players winding down contracts and promising youngsters they need to build the core of their squad around. Anyone PSG could want is likely leaving for buttons anyway this summer or next or Real need to keep hold of because they can't afford to replace everyone. And if they are trying to replace significant numbers then they REALLY can't afford too much of the finances poured into a deal for one player.
Real Madrid have much higher revenues than us, and lower debt. They have more than enough players that can be let go to cover the purchase of Mbappe without it affecting their squad too much.

10 Why would it effect us. One big attacking signing could be balanced out by 100-150 of outgoing players and we are in transfer positive for this year. What rebuild would we need to do over the next year or two after an Mbappe arrival?
12 Who on Earth pays over a 100 million for a 22 year old if they can get him for free at 23? Time is on their side. This is the long game I believe Real are trying to play. 80-100 million offer summer 2021 or sign him for free summer 2022.
That depends on what value they think they gain from having him with a year on his contract left. They may very well wait - but it is unlikely they will wait long enough to see another team buy him, and as his price falls that benefits Real Madrid just as much if not more than us does it not?

13 PSG have tried every accounting trick under the sun and are literally in danger of getting kicked out of Europe as things stand. They need to appease the authorities on FFP at the moment not spit in their faces. And they've got a bit of a rebuild to sort themselves. Selling Mbappe and/or Neymar would be a quick way to solve all their issues. If a club can afford either player (which, ironically, only PSG could hope to buy players at the values PSG are putting on them, hence Klopps comments which might have been carefully weighted for specific purposes) they could rebuild their side and still potentially walk away with a positive net spend to get FFP off their back for a bit.
The FFP investigation was closed last summer.


I'm not disputing the sale of Neymar or Mbappe would make their situation easier, I'm challenging the notion that it is their only route out (City seem to have got by without relying on sales of big players) or that it forces them to reduce the price at which they are prepared to sell. Even if it did, they may still refuse to do so because they are obstinate.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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(1) No, that would only be true if maximising his salary was his primary concern. Again, no one is saying that is his primary motive except you as a straw man. Do you not think that most players coming to Liverpool see a rise in their salary? Do you think in the non football world when someone is looking to move jobs for a non money motive they don't look to see if the new job will pay them more than their old one?



(2) I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm distinguishing between what he gets from endorsements and what he may view as recompense for coming to Liverpool football club. If he or his agent believe the club will benefit from increased revenues upon his signing from sales or sponsorship they may feel entitled to ask for a slice of that. If he plays for City or Real Madrid he is most likely going to get a higher salary and increased endorsements, so why not also us?



(3) You're finding it confusing because you are again misrepresenting what i have said. I have stated on multiple occasions that money is not his primary motive for moving. That doesnt stop him or his camp from trying to get more money than he is currently earning in salary. Not moving for money but trying to get a pay rise from the move is not mutually exclusive.



(4) Why wouldnt Mbappe go to City? (5) And, why would Real Madrid want to go for Neymar over Mbappe?



(6) 8 players, particularly if they are high earners, coming off the wage bill does help the bid because as you know the full price of the player isnt usually paid all upfront - it provides space to accommodate whatever wages they wish to give him, it also means that what chunk of the wage bill is not spent going forwards can be saved to pay for future instalments on his fee.

(See 2) Real Madrid are probably THE name in world football. Not only can they afford to pay double the wages we do, they also attract a lot of attention, so it is probably very likely he will be earning at least as much from other sources as he will here. Ronaldo, Courtois, Varane, Hazard, Cajaval, Modric and Asencio are all Nike sponsored.



(7) Real Madrid have much higher revenues than us, and lower debt. They have more than enough players that can be let go to cover the purchase of Mbappe without it affecting their squad too much.





(8) That depends on what value they think they gain from having him with a year on his contract left. They may very well wait - but it is unlikely they will wait long enough to see another team buy him, and as his price falls that benefits Real Madrid just as much if not more than us does it not?


(9) The FFP investigation was closed last summer.


(10) I'm not disputing the sale of Neymar or Mbappe would make their situation easier, I'm challenging the notion that it is their only route out (City seem to have got by without relying on sales of big players) or that it forces them to reduce the price at which they are prepared to sell. Even if it did, they may still refuse to do so because they are obstinate.
1 He might see if his "new job" are prepared to pay him more. But it won't stop him moving if they won't otherwise he would extend with PSG. The club no other club could hope to come close to matching. We (not necessarily me and you but LFC fans) had these arguments over why VvD would move to City not us or Ox would extend with Arsenal or sign with Chelsea who were offering more. It's not as black and white as you are making out.

2 Premier League is the most highly saturated league in the world when it comes to media and marketing. Yes Real and Barca match anything going on here but you come down to what is more fruity an apple or an orange. Yes other endorsements would probably be high there or here. But for a footballer the main endorsement deal will always be the sports wear/boots one. Currently he is under long term deal with Nike who won't surrender that even if he does go to Real Madrid. But they certainly won't increase it if they can help it for him wearing Adidas. One day he may get to swap to Adidas and be quid in again. But not straight away.

3 You're ignoring how I've explained he probably would end up with an increased income by coming to us. It just doesn't have to come from us. So if it is even a secondary concern that is met. But it simply can't be a major issue for him or he would stay put. It really is that simple.

4 You think City have the same standing in football as even PSG? If he is wanting to move to kick on to another level he is looking at clubs like Juventus, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, us and United (if they weren't in the middle of a fall from grace). You don't become a historic figure in the sport unless you're at a club with gravitas.

5 Real have had a long term crush on Neymar for awhile. He is at peak Real Madrid Galactico signing age. If they don't sign him soon he will be another one like Messi, a great name in the sport, that hasn't played at Real Madrid. That will be a blot on their copy book. Their current manager will want Mbappe but how long do they keep managers and how much power do managers have there? The Neymar to Real Madrid stories have been around alot longer than the Mbappe ones. Say I'm wrong and Real Madrid can spend that much on one player, it is just as possible they sign Neymar now and come back for Mbappe later (when he will still be young enough even in 6/7 years) as it is they go for Mbappe now and miss the chance to ever have Neymar on their books.

6 That is not how football works. To be able to meet funds for fees they need to have the finances coming in for it. They can't use money saved on future wage bills whilst also using the same saved money to pay the money for the new signings plus wages for future players. They can't use the same money twice.

7 I don't know where this myth of Real Madrid being so financially strong comes from? Maybe it's a hangover from the Galactico era which was starting to trickle off nearly 10 years ago? They haven't been able to flex their financial muscles really since Bale. And even then that was Tottenham they were poaching from. Not peak level Juventus, Barcelona or United like during the real Galactico era. Real have been left way behind by the likes of PSG and City and because we have so few needs in our squad we can probably go toe to toe with Real on a player and match or beat what they can bid in terms of fee if we want to.

8 What are you saying PSG can afford to wait on? This summer is the last time they will have any control on the market for him with 2 years left on his deal. Next summer and the following winter they have to accept whatever his club of choice are wanting to pay. Or that club sign him for nothing a year later. And yes it benefits all clubs wanting to buy him but see my last points on us v Real in terms of paying fees.

9 And they will want to keep it closed not let players like Cavani, Mbappe and Neymar run down their contracts and have to get into more FFP hot water replacing them without significant fees coming in to offset the books.

10 Its not their only way out but it's their best way out. Neymar now seems happy there (for now) so maybe their hand isn't going to be forced with him but it will be with Mbappe within two years. Why not make the decision that makes the most sense for them and sell him for a slightly more reasonable (but still fantastic fee) when they have some control over accepting a deal from a club that satisfies them. You say PSG are obstinate so surely you can agree that Real would be the club they'd prefer not to lose him to?
 

redfanman

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@Chewbazza answered most of your other points, so to help keep things a little shorter i'm just picking up a few points from your last post.

3 You're ignoring how I've explained he probably would end up with an increased income by coming to us. It just doesn't have to come from us. So if it is even a secondary concern that is met. But it simply can't be a major issue for him or he would stay put. It really is that simple.
How have i ignored it? we've both bored forum members silly with lengthy posts on the subject. Since he hasnt moved yet, the bolded is a bit redundant.

6 That is not how football works. To be able to meet funds for fees they need to have the finances coming in for it. They can't use money saved on future wage bills whilst also using the same saved money to pay the money for the new signings plus wages for future players. They can't use the same money twice.
erm....there is no one way 'football works'.

And it isnt using the same money twice. Example - Real free up £1m a week on wage bill. Pay Mbappe 500k per week leaving 500k a week spare. 500k x 52 = £26m. That £26m can go towards a payment to PSG in year 2 or 3 of the deal.

Some clubs will have the money available straight away to cover the transfer. Others will be using various income flows over the course of the contract to pay for it later.

7 I don't know where this myth of Real Madrid being so financially strong comes from?
Try looking at their balance sheet? They were virtually debt free and had 190m euros in the bank in the 2018 accounts. They have the highest commercial revenues in the game and the highest total revenues.

I gave you the link to Swiss Ramble's last piece on Real Madrid. He did another one a couple of years ago explaining why Barca and Real Madrid were actually capable of spending big on transfers if they wanted to even if their finances didnt look as solid as clubs in the premier league.

Alternatively you could look at this piece in the BBC last summer.


Or this one.


Maybe it's a hangover from the Galactico era which was starting to trickle off nearly 10 years ago? They haven't been able to flex their financial muscles really since Bale. Real have been left way behind by the likes of PSG and City and because we have so few needs in our squad we can probably go toe to toe with Real on a player and match or beat what they can bid in terms of fee if we want to.
Real Madrid spent 300m euros last summer.

For some of the earlier period there may have been constraints but much of it over the last few years is because of a new financial strategy.

If Real Madrid really want Mbappe, there is no way we can beat them in fee or wages, if only because our owners and manager will always have a limit they arent willing to cross.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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The Neymar to Real interest all came from Neymar. While the club looked into the possibilty, because why wouldn't you when Neymar is telling your players that he is desperate to move to your club, they decided at the time the fee was too much and never put in any kind of offer. They were never actively pursuing him and they couldn't give a fuck about never signing Neymar.

Mbappe to Real is different. He wants them and they want him. He doesn't want to re-sign with PSG despite an increase in wages.

PSG don't want to sell and from the sounds of things are prepared to lose him on a free. Perhaps it's a game of chicken, and they'll accept a lesser (but still large) fee from Real when he has a year left.

When Mbappe does move to Real, he will not be doing so for no wages. He and his agent will look to get paid as much as possible, no matter if wages are not the most important thing, any player at the highest level would want the most money they can get. And I'm not saying it's so he buy overly expensive wellies. But the more money you can get the better you can provide for friends and family and donate more to charity.

We might well be interested in Mbappe and have made enquiries, like Real did with Neymar, but the likely outcome is we'll never make an actual offer because we know the deal is largely improbable because he's going to Madrid.
I'm not saying we are getting Mbappe. For all I know we don't even want to try.

What I have a problem with is the following assertions;

1; We can't bring him in because of wages. The difference between Mbappes current deal and Salahs current deal is less than the difference between Mbappes deal with Nike and Neymars deal with Nike. Along with other endorsements Mbappe coming here on a deal that matches Salah could increase his total combined income, maybe even significantly.

2; We can't afford him. We will probably only add one or two players each summer now unless something unexpected happens. We have great depth and balance with fantastic youth players ready to take the squad roles. We have record incomes and we could end up selling over 100 million worth of players this summer that wouldn't even need replacing.

3; Real Madrid can afford to buy him this summer. I don't see it. I really think Reals financial strength is like how people kept talking of Wenger being a great developer of talent up till he got fired. Its something built on activity that is now years old, completely out of date, and there has been no evidence of it for at least 5 maybe 10 years.

4; We don't need a top forward who plays in the style of Mane and Salah, cover options are good enough. Just will never agree with this. A smaller number of higher quality players is better to me than a larger number of players, some quality, others you will use as little as you can get away with. The smaller numbers means you can give more chances to youth players and the higher quality means you don't see drop offs.

If people disagree with me on these things it's fine, I can deal with opinions. But a lot of people are posting on here telling me how I'm wrong. Not sharing an opinion. Without hard evidence such as inside knowledge or the ability to see the future people can't know just like I can't. Theres a lot of certainty on here. I don't see the basis for the certainty.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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@Chewbazza answered most of your other points, so to help keep things a little shorter i'm just picking up a few points from your last post.


How have i ignored it? we've both bored forum members silly with lengthy posts on the subject. Since he hasnt moved yet, the bolded is a bit redundant.


erm....there is no one way 'football works'.

And it isnt using the same money twice. Example - Real free up £1m a week on wage bill. Pay Mbappe 500k per week leaving 500k a week spare. 500k x 52 = £26m. That £26m can go towards a payment to PSG in year 2 or 3 of the deal.

Some clubs will have the money available straight away to cover the transfer. Others will be using various income flows over the course of the contract to pay for it later.



Try looking at their balance sheet? They were virtually debt free and had 190m euros in the bank in the 2018 accounts. They have the highest commercial revenues in the game and the highest total revenues.

I gave you the link to Swiss Ramble's last piece on Real Madrid. He did another one a couple of years ago explaining why Barca and Real Madrid were actually capable of spending big on transfers if they wanted to even if their finances didnt look as solid as clubs in the premier league.

Alternatively you could look at this piece in the BBC last summer.


Or this one.




Real Madrid spent 300m euros last summer.

For some of the earlier period there may have been constraints but much of it over the last few years is because of a new financial strategy.

If Real Madrid really want Mbappe, there is no way we can beat them in fee or wages, if only because our owners and manager will always have a limit they arent willing to cross.
Right missed this last night but will keep my response brief. For all the talk of how their wage bill has loads of room and 180 million in the bank I'm picking up two things. In years without much spending they still only had 20 odd and 40 odd million profit. Yes they have massive, ridiculous even, revenue. They also have massive, ridiculous even, running costs. When they weren't spending much net for a few seasons they were walking away with less than 50 million net profit that built up the 180 million. Then, after a few years of frugality, the then go and have a blow out of 300 million (spread over several players with the Hazard deal so far equalling 90 million as the highest individual one) added to their short term future financial commitments. Now they could potentially spend a lot again this summer but yet again they are in a position they need to spread it out over several players. I admit I may end up being completely wrong but I don't see them matching this years spending and I don't see them putting the vast majority of it on one player. Even if they do I still believe there is a chance the player could end up being Neymar not Mbappe. Just my opinion we will have to wait till this summer to see what does or doesn't happen with how much they spend and who on.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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1. Mbappe already earns nearly twice as much as Salah from the starting point of a basic weekly wage. Irrespective of if you can change the structure of payment, it's still nearly twice as much. He won't be taking a pay cut of that size if he comes here. While we may be able to pay it, we won't because of the ripple effect on the rest of the squad.

2. We can afford him. Nobody is disputing that. It just doesn't necessarily make sense to.

3. Real can afford him because he will either cost nothing, or his fee will be not be exorbitant if he only has a year left on his contract.

4. I'm not even sure how to approach this one as it seems you never can understand no matter how many times it is explained. But as there's nothing else happening this weekend i'll give it another try.

Nobody (and I really mean nobody) has any problem with us signing another forward.

Last summer, everyone agreed that another forward would have been a good and useful addition to the squad. It then became very obvious, very quickly that Klopp was not going to sign anyone and was going to use solutions from within the current squad. The disagreements that arose we not that we shouldn't buy another player, but that the options that we were linked with did not make sense due to an abundance of reasons that there's little point going over again. The choice to use cover options was a choice made by Klopp, so if you will never agree with that, then you don't agree with him, not us.

At some point the club became aware that Minamino had his release clause and so swiftly moved to bring him in. Had his clause not existed we would probably have waited until the summer. But he did, so we brought in a 4th forward. Unsurprisingly everyone was delighted with the move.

With the news of the Afcon, it looks like a move for another forward in the summer is a real possibilty again. Nobody is saying we shouldn't do this. The disagreement now seems to be the profile of the player that we will be looking at. Once again all the noises that come from Klopp and the club that suggest we won't be bringing in a player in the price range of Mbappe or Sancho you choose to ignore. I think you'd struggle to find a member of this forum who doesn't want to sign one of these players in the summer. All that is happening now is people trying to point out to you the myriad of reasons why moves for these players are unlikely (not impossible).

Nobody is certain about what will happen, we're all just giving our best-guess opinions. If all your opinions are contradictory to everything the club has been saying and doing for the last 9 months, then are course
people are going to disagree with you.
1 Actually Mbappe earns nowhere near double what Salah does. ISMF has put the figures up. The difference between Salahs wage and Mbappes wage is less than the increase Mbappe could (easily and realistically) get from Nike. If Nike put Mbappe on the same deal as they have Neymar on it would be a bigger increase in salary.

2 Actually a lot are saying we can't afford him and at the price it seems PSG are starting discussions at we probably can't. I would agree that talk of 250 million fees would make it impossible. I've always argued on this that I believe PSG will get more realistic on price if it gives them more control of where Mbappe goes.

3 The theory that Real are waiting for the circumstances you say is actually the one put forward by me that they will wait till summer 2021 issue a take it or leave it fee to PSG or sign him for free in summer 2022. This is why I think a 3rd club would get some joy negotiating with PSG this summer on a more realistic fee as a compromise PSG may accept.

4 When we found out Minamino had the clause, if Klopp didn't feel he needed to add a forward at that stage, one of two things happens. 1 like with Grujic we trigger and buy Minamino but leave him where he is till the summer. 2 we bring Minamino in but let someone else move on, like Shaqiri on loan to Roma or the Lallana approaches we rejected. We added Minamino to the squad and played him straight away because we were light up top. You are speaking for yourself when you say nobody would reject a high quality signing some people have said they would prefer the club to look for a new Minamino signing or such. By the way it doesn't have to equal expensive, if Sancho or Mbappe would have been available on bosman deals they would still be the kind of player I think we'd need, I'm not wanting to spend the money for the sake of it, I just see it as very few players on the planet could now add what we need to add at this stage.
 

Ron Swanson

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Really can't see the club basically changing everything they have created as in transfer structure and budget structure just for one player. The lad is class no doubt and the club could afford him but why take a risk he might not adjust to the prem plus the unrest cause through the squad. Werner will be the one coming in I reckon ticks all the boxes for their structure and recruitment process.
 

Jaytinho

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Really can't see the club basically changing everything they have created as in transfer structure and budget structure just for one player. The lad is class no doubt and the club could afford him but why take a risk he might not adjust to the prem plus the unrest cause through the squad. Werner will be the one coming in I reckon ticks all the boxes for their structure and recruitment process.
Agreed. Werner seems alot more likely considering Klopps transfer policy since he came in. I just wonder how much corporate influence there will be from Nike etc regarding making the Mbappe deal a major marketing move rather than just a great signing? The timing seems to be well aligned
 

Limiescouse

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It's from Reddy's latest article, isn't it? I think she was referring to Klopp's talks with Mbappe before he signed the new contract with Monaco, I think even before he got his starting spot. There were actually clips of his goals for Monaco's youth team doing the rounds at the time. One could see he was a talent but to go on and become the player he is... Wow. It's a shame that he's so fixated on Real Madrid but everyone had their dreams.
His career has been very carefully managed. He went into Clairfontaine at 13 as an unaffiliated player, but one that had already been fending off offers from all over Europe for several years. When he came out he had literally the pick of Europe but chose Monaco because they had a clear path into the first team for him.