Lazar Marković (RW) to anyone

Mascot88

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Yeah, that's what I can't wrap my mind around.
He surely wouldn’t have travelled without both parties having the wages in at least the right ball park. It might have to do with structuring, or even image rights. Something like that.
 

lfc.eddie

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The player travelled to Anderlecht, presumably wages would have been discussed before then?
Uhm, not sure if that's how the process work. The initial discussion would have been with the club, Anderlecht would have known his wages with Liverpool. The buying club would assume that a player who has not been playing for the club, made known he isn't wanted and young enough to still have a chance to make a great career out of it, would think about football more than money. That's what I would have thought if I was Anderlecht rep. So they will have to fly the player out to have a proper nego with him and his agent.

I think his agent should have pushed for him to take the deal. To resurrect his career and kickstart it in a new environment and country. It's either he isn't taking any advice from anyone, or both are just as greedy as the other.

He surely wouldn’t have travelled without both parties having the wages in at least the right ball park. It might have to do with structuring, or even image rights. Something like that.
Don't think so when you are about to hire some big timer - I take it Premier League footballers are like great CFO or Head of Inv. where you would not discuss his demands till you meet face to face to size each other up. They surely know how much he's on, but they just wanted to make sure they could drive it down a little and then up it when he prove himself. Something like that you discuss face-to-face, show respect to the fella you try to poach/hire.
 

redfanman

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Uhm, not sure if that's how the process work. The initial discussion would have been with the club, Anderlecht would have known his wages with Liverpool. The buying club would assume that a player who has not been playing for the club, made known he isn't wanted and young enough to still have a chance to make a great career out of it, would think about football more than money. That's what I would have thought if I was Anderlecht rep. So they will have to fly the player out to have a proper nego with him and his agent.

I think his agent should have pushed for him to take the deal. To resurrect his career and kickstart it in a new environment and country. It's either he isn't taking any advice from anyone, or both are just as greedy as the other.


Don't think so when you are about to hire some big timer - I take it Premier League footballers are like great CFO or Head of Inv. where you would not discuss his demands till you meet face to face to size each other up. They surely know how much he's on, but they just wanted to make sure they could drive it down a little and then up it when he prove himself. Something like that you discuss face-to-face, show respect to the fella you try to poach/hire.
Clubs regularly sound out players before they submit a deal to their owning clubs as they dont want to waste their time on a player they cant get. A player clearly available like Markovic wouldnt face any block from Liverpool on contact by willing buyers.
 

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He surely wouldn’t have travelled without both parties having the wages in at least the right ball park. It might have to do with structuring, or even image rights. Something like that.
It is not like Anderlecht is a long journey, a little more than an hour perhaps? Either party might have preferred to have the player get a feel out of the place and then sit down face to face.
 

lfc.eddie

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Clubs regularly sound out players before they submit a deal to their owning clubs as they dont want to waste their time on a player they cant get. A player clearly available like Markovic wouldnt face any block from Liverpool on contact by willing buyers.
Sounding out does not make it a proper negotiation with players. Given that the club already told the player he has no future with us, surely any proposal will be entertained and since this is the only bid I have heard or read, at the 11th hour. We as a club didn't even demand any form of big fee, and they even agreed upon 50% sell-on clause means they do have the money to buy the player and they can have the player. Negotiating with the player is another story altogether. So the deal breaker is the wage proposal which the player didn't want, not because the club aren't happy with the fee they offered.
 
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You'd hope personal terms would've been pretty sorted with the fee before effectively flying over for the medical. It was deadline day so little time for negotiations.

Maybe the manager had a change of heart but he knew the player. Sounds more like Markovic cold feet / greed.

I don't want him round the first team or u23s, he's a bad example. A malingerer. Pay off his contract now as he's not going to leave in January willingly either. (Childish but id pay off his contract in 1p's, millions of them.)
 

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Sounding out does not make it a proper negotiation with players. Given that the club already told the player he has no future with us, surely any proposal will be entertained and since this is the only bid I have heard or read, at the 11th hour. We as a club didn't even demand any form of big fee, and they even agreed upon 50% sell-on clause means they do have the money to buy the player and they can have the player. Negotiating with the player is another story altogether. So the deal breaker is the wage proposal which the player didn't want, not because the club aren't happy with the fee they offered.
I didnt say he had a proper negotiation before he went over, only that i thought figures on how much they might be willing to pay him would have been aired prior to him going, hence why i chose to say sounding out instead of negotiate.

It was one of at least two bids reported on deadline day that were being considered by the club. Earlier in the day people were thinking he was off to Greece. I dont know how serious that interest/rumour was.

Yes, negotiating with the player is different to both the sounding out and the negotiations with the club but the latter two 'discussions' also help inform the negotiations especially when the player may already be on a sizeable wage his new club is less keen on matching.

I never suggested the deal faultered because the club was unhappy wth the fee being offered (not sure where you got that from?). We assume he was unhappy with the wage proposal, but we dont really know.
 

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A winter in Scotland would do him good. Gerrard needs offensive options.
Sending him Markovic would be pretty offensive.

I'm sure both parties knew of the other's respective positions re personal terms before he flew over but equally likely that each of them thought they could get the other to move in their direction. Clearly that didn't happen to either party's satisfaction. Perhaps Liverpool also played a part in that.
 

redbj

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You'd hope personal terms would've been pretty sorted with the fee before effectively flying over for the medical. It was deadline day so little time for negotiations.

Maybe the manager had a change of heart but he knew the player. Sounds more like Markovic cold feet / greed.

I don't want him round the first team or u23s, he's a bad example. A malingerer. Pay off his contract now as he's not going to leave in January willingly either. (Childish but id pay off his contract in 1p's, millions of them.)
I’ve said it earlier but I can’t imagine anyone I Markovic s position leaving, still young enough to cobble together a career from football, not good enough to achieve these wages again....

He sticks around for another twelve months (24 months when I first said it) and pretty much secures his future and that of his children for the rest of their lives.....it’s shit being on the end of it, and we can have all sorts of opinions on trusting yourself, living your dreams etc etc etc, but the fact is, this is far from his last throw of the dice in the game

LFC crapped out, no need for us to get personal though. I understand the human side to it.
 

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I’ve said it earlier but I can’t imagine anyone I Markovic s position leaving, still young enough to cobble together a career from football, not good enough to achieve these wages again....

He sticks around for another twelve months (24 months when I first said it) and pretty much secures his future and that of his children for the rest of their lives.....it’s shit being on the end of it, and we can have all sorts of opinions on trusting yourself, living your dreams etc etc etc, but the fact is, this is far from his last throw of the dice in the game

LFC crapped out, no need for us to get personal though. I understand the human side to it.
What people so often forget is that after football, there is not much for most of these guys. No real education, no trade. There is a decent chance he makes more in the next year than the next twenty. It may not be admirable, but it is understandable, especially for a guy whose career doesn't look like it was much fun over the last four years. Who knows what Anderlecht was offering, but their base wage is less than half of what an average Championship player gets.

Really disappointed to see how this turned out, I was genuinely excited when we recruited him - seeing him play for Benfica I thought he could really be part of LFC winning that 19th, and then we signed him. Probably the only player in the last decade I have been more delighted to see LFC sign was Raheem Sterling, after I saw him in Mexico.

On the other hand, I was at best blase about signing Salah, and really didn't think Milner was a great idea. Probably for the best I don't earn my salt in this business.
 
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I’ve said it earlier but I can’t imagine anyone I Markovic s position leaving, still young enough to cobble together a career from football, not good enough to achieve these wages again....

He sticks around for another twelve months (24 months when I first said it) and pretty much secures his future and that of his children for the rest of their lives.....it’s shit being on the end of it, and we can have all sorts of opinions on trusting yourself, living your dreams etc etc etc, but the fact is, this is far from his last throw of the dice in the game

LFC crapped out, no need for us to get personal though. I understand the human side to it.
Is the 'human side' of it basically greed?

£35k a week, so say £15k a week after tax. £700k a year for the last three years. He's already set for life - especially given Serbian cost of living - does he really need another year of those wages to keep him from poverty, or is he being greedy?

As for having no future or education. Many footballers go to uni or get their badges in the massive amount of spare time they have. If he doesnt want to learn a trade then he'll have to clean bogs. Or are footballers some special breed that only have to work for a few years (doing something most of us do for fun)?!

Markovics equivalent would be you or I fluking a pressured new job that was beyond us but instead of admitting it, or trying our best, or finding something more suitable, we just go pfff, whatever and sit on our arises until sacked? I had a boss just like that and I ended up doing his work as well as my own. It takes some front - most decent people wouldn't persevere with that, especially if they'd been offered a job we could manage and still get reasonable paid for.

The most relevant human element is the poor fans earning £20k a year battling in unglamorous jobs to pay for that lazy fker to moan on the sidelines that its everyones fault but his own.

I have zero sympathy, as you can tell. He's an awful, awful example to the younger lads. Hey, you don't have to try once youve earned a decent contract, youre set for life. There should be minimum performance levels built into contracts and I think the club has wised up to that now. This guy is hopefully the last hangover from a different era. Can't wait to see the back of him.
 

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I’ve stuck up for Markovic but then again I can’t hide my disappointment both in the fact that this deal fell through and in the way that Markovic conducted himself.

From his perspective, he can earn a decent professional footballer’s wage doing sod tout and leave as a free agent in 12 months time. He will no doubt get a bigger personal signing-on fee and will be more attractive to clubs that might be tempted to take a punt on him but are put off by the transfer fee, small though it is by today’s standards. He may also have little conscience about fleecing the club after what he - rightly or wrongly - might interpret as unfair treatment since he signed his original contract. And as others have pointed out he is still relatively young.

Who knows what is going on in his head these days? In 12 months time he will move on whether he has found a new club or not. He may even move on a free in January. Either way he’s probably best forgotten about now. Soon he’ll be somebody elses’s problem and if he does start to make the most of any talent that he has and rediscover his true form then good luck to him and his new club.
 

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He has apparently tweeted that money wasn't the issue?

The club is certainly at fault (in part) for this fiasco and the player himself is as well. Perhaps its a little early for us to jump to conclusions on why he hasn't moved on. I just think its a really sad situation all round, does he actually want to play or has he become disillusioned with the game? I could certainly understand why if he has.

But I do agree with @scouseheadross that top level football players have plenty of opportunities when they finish playing. But I will caveat that by saying provided they are half way sensible financially while they are playing and earning. Being financially stable opens up an enormous array of opportunities and possibilities.

I'd love to have a complete direction change professionally but a mortgage and a child just make that near impossible.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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See I don't get the argument that he's better off financially staying. Only in the most short term of perspectives.

His current wage may be decent but won't be Earth shattering. Wages have progressed a lot in the game since he signed, especially in England. He is only guaranteed one more year on that wage. Even if he had to accept a 50% drop for this year or 2 in a "lesser" league so what? At the moment who wants him? He was available for practically nothing this summer and there weren't any clubs who pay well interested. He'll be even less desirable after spending a year on a bench and rejecting a deal this summer. Come next summer who is really going to be interested who weren't interested this summer? He might be 2/3 million cheaper to pick up but that would need to be added to the wages he just rejected. He won't be any more desirable and won't get the well paid position he seemingly wants by rotting in the reserves for a year.

Come next year his options and suitors aren't likely to be any better than they were this summer, they might well be worse. If he'd made the move and done even "ok" because he's still quite famous he'd have probably been picked up by a bigger club in a year or two based off playing and just doing ok. Then he'd have got back to the kind of wages he wants. Just think he's been long term stupid for extremely short term gain.
 

redbj

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Is the 'human side' of it basically greed?

£35k a week, so say £15k a week after tax. £700k a year for the last three years. He's already set for life - especially given Serbian cost of living - does he really need another year of those wages to keep him from poverty, or is he being greedy?

As for having no future or education. Many footballers go to uni or get their badges in the massive amount of spare time they have. If he doesnt want to learn a trade then he'll have to clean bogs. Or are footballers some special breed that only have to work for a few years (doing something most of us do for fun)?!

Markovics equivalent would be you or I fluking a pressured new job that was beyond us but instead of admitting it, or trying our best, or finding something more suitable, we just go pfff, whatever and sit on our arises until sacked? I had a boss just like that and I ended up doing his work as well as my own. It takes some front - most decent people wouldn't persevere with that, especially if they'd been offered a job we could manage and still get reasonable paid for.

The most relevant human element is the poor fans earning £20k a year battling in unglamorous jobs to pay for that lazy fker to moan on the sidelines that its everyones fault but his own.

I have zero sympathy, as you can tell. He's an awful, awful example to the younger lads. Hey, you don't have to try once youve earned a decent contract, youre set for life. There should be minimum performance levels built into contracts and I think the club has wised up to that now. This guy is hopefully the last hangover from a different era. Can't wait to see the back of him.
That’s s great speech, rouses the troops, pounds at the heartstrings, but....

In the cold light of day, you’d be a fucking idiot to give up a million pound to chase a dream you can chase in twelve months time anyway.

Modern football might be full of largesse, but that’s not Markos fault, or his problem to solve.

LFC as a football club turn enough money to accept a few hits.... this is one.

I’ll also wager he’s more dedicated than most people who slag him off.....

Not being good enough for LFC is no crime, just getting to a contract situation with us would entail massive sacrifice, hard work and will power....

I never subscribe to the ‘waster’ tag thrown at some footballers..... for the reasons listed above
 

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See I don't get the argument that he's better off financially staying. Only in the most short term of perspectives.

His current wage may be decent but won't be Earth shattering. Wages have progressed a lot in the game since he signed, especially in England. He is only guaranteed one more year on that wage. Even if he had to accept a 50% drop for this year or 2 in a "lesser" league so what? At the moment who wants him? He was available for practically nothing this summer and there weren't any clubs who pay well interested. He'll be even less desirable after spending a year on a bench and rejecting a deal this summer. Come next summer who is really going to be interested who weren't interested this summer? He might be 2/3 million cheaper to pick up but that would need to be added to the wages he just rejected. He won't be any more desirable and won't get the well paid position he seemingly wants by rotting in the reserves for a year.

Come next year his options and suitors aren't likely to be any better than they were this summer, they might well be worse. If he'd made the move and done even "ok" because he's still quite famous he'd have probably been picked up by a bigger club in a year or two based off playing and just doing ok. Then he'd have got back to the kind of wages he wants. Just think he's been long term stupid for extremely short term gain.
Just do the math. Assume Anderlecht is his level, assume he gets their average - at 600K Euros per year, the highest in the Belgian league by almost 2:1. Assume they offered a four year deal, so 2.4M Euros. At his LFC wage, he is walking away from 2M Euros this year alone. He won't be ahead until the last year of that four year contract, as he is headed toward 28 years old. He could to a lesser Belgian side next year, earn 350K a year for three years, and still be well ahead of the game even without working out the discounting.(edit: the Anderlecht offer was 3 years, so it would be to earn less over the next 3 years than he will this year).

Throw in the fact that in June he goes wherever he chooses for free, and it is not hard to imagine that he pockets some significant percentage of the transfer fee he would have earned in August. He has reached the point in his career where 1M might be what he earns over a couple of seasons, so that signing bonus is even more significant.

I don't think he is holding out for a higher paid position, I think he is holding on to what he has got while he still has it. If he had the genuine confidence to go to Anderlecht and impress bigger clubs, he would not be in this predicament in the first place.
 

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Winston Bogarde said something like "why would I walk away from my money just because they want me to?"

Seems fair enough to me.
 

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Just do the math. Assume Anderlecht is his level, assume he gets their average - at 600K Euros per year, the highest in the Belgian league by almost 2:1. Assume they offered a four year deal, so 2.4M Euros. At his LFC wage, he is walking away from 2M Euros this year alone. He won't be ahead until the last year of that four year contract, as he is headed toward 28 years old. He could to a lesser Belgian side next year, earn 350K a year for three years, and still be well ahead of the game even without working out the discounting.(edit: the Anderlecht offer was 3 years, so it would be to earn less over the next 3 years than he will this year).

Throw in the fact that in June he goes wherever he chooses for free, and it is not hard to imagine that he pockets some significant percentage of the transfer fee he would have earned in August. He has reached the point in his career where 1M might be what he earns over a couple of seasons, so that signing bonus is even more significant.

I don't think he is holding out for a higher paid position, I think he is holding on to what he has got while he still has it. If he had the genuine confidence to go to Anderlecht and impress bigger clubs, he would not be in this predicament in the first place.
Not sure I'm agreeing with some of the assumptions in your post.

First how much basic does he earn here without any of the bonuses that we typically have built in?

How much is Anderlecht putting up? Seemingly the most anyone is willing to pay as it stands. £2.9 million fee plus your prediction of £11.5k per week.

So the best deal, before he rejected it to rot in the reserves for a year, works out at less than 70k a week. If everything is paid in the first year so that's an absolute max. And probably more likely a 40k a week commitment over 2 years.

How much is he really hoping for in this situation?

I think he's too focused on this one year. Doesn't want to lose money within this one year. Which in some ways is fine. But in the long term he's doing some serious damage to his situation. There's no guarantee that there will be a club interested that can even match the financial package of this summer.
 
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That’s s great speech, rouses the troops, pounds at the heartstrings, but....

In the cold light of day, you’d be a fucking idiot to give up a million pound to chase a dream you can chase in twelve months time anyway.

Modern football might be full of largesse, but that’s not Markos fault, or his problem to solve.

LFC as a football club turn enough money to accept a few hits.... this is one.

I’ll also wager he’s more dedicated than most people who slag him off.....

Not being good enough for LFC is no crime, just getting to a contract situation with us would entail massive sacrifice, hard work and will power....

I never subscribe to the ‘waster’ tag thrown at some footballers..... for the reasons listed above
To be clear, the main issue for me is him hanging round the club. The total antithesis of Klopps philosophy, taking the space of another kid who really wants it and making Melwood a less competitive place all round.

I do get irritated by the footballer hard luck story though. Markovic has earned more in three years than most of us will see in a lifetime. Thats end of the argument for me.

Football might be overloaded with lucre but thats no excuse for accepting slackers. IMO he has never seemed to put much effort in from day 1, Rodgers or not. For me, at best he seems to have a weak mentality and lack of balls to put in any kind of tackle, ever. Just seems wrong when Danny Ings or Jimmy Milner would run through a brick wall repeatedly for you.

Not sure if the highlighted was directed at me. Im happy to look myself in the mirror and know I've done my best. Can Lazar?
 



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Not sure I'm agreeing with some of the assumptions in your post.

First how much basic does he earn here without any of the bonuses that we typically have built in?

How much is Anderlecht putting up? Seemingly the most anyone is willing to pay as it stands. £2.9 million fee plus your prediction of £11.5k per week.

So the best deal, before he rejected it to rot in the reserves for a year, works out at less than 70k a week. If everything is paid in the first year so that's an absolute max. And probably more likely a 40k a week commitment over 2 years.

How much is he really hoping for in this situation?

I think he's too focused on this one year. Doesn't want to lose money within this one year. Which in some ways is fine. But in the long term he's doing some serious damage to his situation. There's no guarantee that there will be a club interested that can even match the financial package of this summer.
His LFC wage is ~35k a week, hence the approximately 2M Euros for this season. Not sure how much LFC stands to earn as a transfer fee is really relevant, except as a ceiling indicator of a signing bonus.

The point you seem to be missing is that the financial package at Anderlecht is probably less over three years than he will earn at LFC staying until June. He will have two free years to improve on it. So the response you to your bolded point is simply that there doesn't have to be, he already has a better package.
 

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Not sure I'm agreeing with some of the assumptions in your post.

First how much basic does he earn here without any of the bonuses that we typically have built in?

How much is Anderlecht putting up? Seemingly the most anyone is willing to pay as it stands. £2.9 million fee plus your prediction of £11.5k per week.

So the best deal, before he rejected it to rot in the reserves for a year, works out at less than 70k a week. If everything is paid in the first year so that's an absolute max. And probably more likely a 40k a week commitment over 2 years.

How much is he really hoping for in this situation?

I think he's too focused on this one year. Doesn't want to lose money within this one year. Which in some ways is fine. But in the long term he's doing some serious damage to his situation. There's no guarantee that there will be a club interested that can even match the financial package of this summer.
How are you doing your numbers, The 2.9m would have gone to the club not the player this summer? I think he would be on £30-40k a week here at least half as basic wage perhaps more given how keen we were to get him from Chelsea's clutches. Perhaps there is other money payable from seeing out his contract (loyalty bonus?).

Its hard to believe that in one years time there wouldnt be at least 2 clubs willing to sign him as he is out of contract.
 
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Clearly he'd be better staying put, better contract here than anywhere else will offer and then a signing on bonus next year..... assuming people still want him then but he's young and quick and decent technique, on a free.

I wonder if we were going to be subsidising his wages in the Anderlecht deal anyway? Did we subsidise his wages during his loan spells?
 

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How are you doing your numbers, The 2.9m would have gone to the club not the player this summer? I think he would be on £30-40k a week here at least half as basic wage perhaps more given how keen we were to get him from Chelsea's clutches. Perhaps there is other money payable from seeing out his contract (loyalty bonus?).

Its hard to believe that in one years time there wouldnt be at least 2 clubs willing to sign him as he is out of contract.
Chelsea dropped their interest early which is somewhat revealing (in hindsight) given that they had an economic interest in him so could have got him at a discount.

Liverpool between a rock and a hard place. To make this move happen they almost certainly would have had to make Markovic 'whole' by making up the difference between wages offered by Anderlecht and what he would have been paid by LFC this year as well as paying any unpaid signing fee/loyalty bonus, up front.

That would probably see LFC break even with a transfer fee of >£3m. It wouldn't be a precedent the club would want to create but at the same time it would probably be the only way of getting him out the door.

Could/should Markovic compromise to ensure actual game time? Yeah, I think he should. Does he have to? No.

In the last few years contracts are structured so that there is often now a significant drop in the basic salary in the last year of a contract which would mitigate these sorts of situations (if not help to avoid them altogether) but I don't think Markovic's deal is structured that way.
 

redfanman

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Chelsea dropped their interest early which is somewhat revealing (in hindsight) given that they had an economic interest in him so could have got him at a discount.

Liverpool between a rock and a hard place. To make this move happen they almost certainly would have had to make Markovic 'whole' by making up the difference between wages offered by Anderlecht and what he would have been paid by LFC this year as well as paying any unpaid signing fee/loyalty bonus, up front.

That would probably see LFC break even with a transfer fee of >£3m. It wouldn't be a precedent the club would want to create but at the same time it would probably be the only way of getting him out the door.

Could/should Markovic compromise to ensure actual game time? Yeah, I think he should. Does he have to? No.

In the last few years contracts are structured so that there is often now a significant drop in the basic salary in the last year of a contract which would mitigate these sorts of situations (if not help to avoid them altogether) but I don't think Markovic's deal is structured that way.
Yes, i remember Chelsea had dropped out, but what i meant to say was that i dont think given how eager our club were to sign him that we would have reduced our offer to him because of that.