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Liverpool v Anzhi Makhachkala 25th Oct 20.05

cardiffpete

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He's a 25 year old professional footballer, and he's played 12 games this season.

Sorry, cant be doing with any of this 'he's tired' bollocks.
I'm a professional (actually sponsored) high-altitude mountaineer ... and going to 3,600 M altitude to play in La Paz and then coming back down to sea-level is just a massive jolt to your body.

Going non-stop to almost 4km in a single go is usually not recommended. Any mountaineer would take about 5~8 days to properly acclimatize to 4,000m. Strenuous physical activity immediately after hitting that altitude is yet another no-no. No wonder if he's a bit off colour if being asked to perform at 3600m, with no time to acclimatize ...and then with little or no preparation thrust into 3 matches in 8 days. He was a bit off tonight, but I would be too.
 


Prolix

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Ask him, or any other footballer with his work ethic, (hypothetically of course, because it's not like we can) if he's tired and wants a rest, and he'd probably tell you to get a grip.
He can tell me whatever he wants, that doesn't mean he'd be making the right decision. I'm not denying that Suárez always wants to play, but since he cannot be relied upon to rule himself out we need the manager to make the difficult decision to rest him selectively.

As I said after the game against Reading:

For me, there's a growing body of evidence which suggests very strongly that when Luis is mentally or physically strained/exhausted, his performances nosedive. He plays with more frustration, loses composure and thus doesn't finish at all well, and his 'Jekyll' side comes out (looking for fouls, complaining). Couple that with the pressure of feeling like the weight of all Liverpool supporters is on your shoulders and the burden must be enormous. If Luis genuinely plans on staying with us, then Brendan will need to manage him both mentally and physically very well. The lack of a real alternative to Luis at the moment isn't just bad for the team because of the lack of goals, it is very bad for Luis' fitness. This is a major reason why I am very unimpressed with Brendan for not putting Morgan or Yesil on the bench to give Luis even just 15 minutes more rest.

This was the case again tonight. He didn't have a nightmare, but it also was not a particularly inspiring performance. I fully expect more of these underwhelming performances until we get adequate cover for him. It's a shame, as I don't think Yesil is too far away from the first team to not get chances.
 

Dane

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I'm a professional (actually sponsored) high-altitude mountaineer ... and going to 3,600 M altitude to play in La Paz and then coming back down to sea-level is just a massive jolt to your body.

Going non-stop to almost 4km in a single go is usually not recommended. Any mountaineer would take about 5~8 days to properly acclimatize to 4,000m. Strenuous physical activity immediately after hitting that altitude is yet another no-no. No wonder if he's a bit of colour if being asked to perform at 3600m, with no time to acclimatize ...and then with little or no preparation thrust into 3 matches in 8 days. He was a bit off tonight, but I would be too.
I dont doubt your knowledge of the effects of altitude.
I didn't say he was tired,others did.
He didn't stop running for the 90 minutes, which doesn't give the impression he's tired.
The player himself, the manager, and the fitness and coaching staff clearly dont have a concern that he's tired either.
Only the fans it would seem, well some of them, think he's tired.

He's probably be mortified reading all this awww he's tired, no exhausted, he needs a rest.

I only criticised him over some of his theatrics, which only serve to compound his already unfair treatment, and the fact he ran around achieving little tonight.
And a lot of that is down to the fact that although he can display some magical skills at times, he can also be very predictable at other times.
 

Prolix

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It's entirely possible to be tired without huffing and puffing à la Joe Cole. Lack of mental and physical sharpness can very readily be exhibited through subpar decision making, frustration, etc.
 



SoueysTash

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I dont doubt your knowledge of the effects of altitude.
I didn't say he was tired,others did.
He didn't stop running for the 90 minutes, which doesn't give the impression he's tired.
The player himself, the manager, and the fitness and coaching staff clearly dont have a concern that he's tired either.
Only the fans it would seem, well some of them, think he's tired.

He's probably be mortified reading all this awww he's tired, no exhausted, he needs a rest.

I only criticised him over some of his theatrics, which only serve to compound his already unfair treatment, and the fact he ran around achieving little tonight.
And a lot of that is down to the fact that although he can display some magical skills at times, he can also be very predictable at other times.
Completely agree with this, you can't stick up for a player who is acting like a tool. Even the Kop was groaning every time he fell over for no clear reason.
 

Arminius

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I dont doubt your knowledge of the effects of altitude.
I didn't say he was tired,others did.
He didn't stop running for the 90 minutes, which doesn't give the impression he's tired.
The player himself, the manager, and the fitness and coaching staff clearly dont have a concern that he's tired either.
Only the fans it would seem, well some of them, think he's tired.

He's probably be mortified reading all this awww he's tired, no exhausted, he needs a rest.

I only criticised him over some of his theatrics, which only serve to compound his already unfair treatment, and the fact he ran around achieving little tonight.
And a lot of that is down to the fact that although he can display some magical skills at times, he can also be very predictable at other times.
There Dane goes again, defending FSG and Ayre at the end of the transfer window again... ;)
 



Dane

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Come on, Dane. You had been doing so well. Don't make me regret unhiding your posts.
Hide them, unhide them, makes no difference to me.
I'd like to think you'd be above hiding them over a light hearted smiley post, but hey ho, do what you need to do
 

LFC7NH

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Any word on Johnson's substitution? Was it due to an injury or some tightness or something like that?
 

hugo the horrible

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What's the difference?
Agger:

Crosby:
That is the one which is bothering me, I can clearly remember Andy Dibble's bit and that goal stood.
Either they've changed the rules or one or the other of the interpretations was wrong, still we are talking rules here and we know what a mess some of them are!
 



hugo the horrible

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Good win, and even better we are top of the group,now for the toffees, like some others I wondered about playing Luis and Stevie in this, but Luis wants to play 24/7 so I can't see us convincing him he should have a break.

Maybe playing Stevie was part of a master plan to rest him against the toffees and play Hendo. ;)
 

Prolix

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Hide them, unhide them, makes no difference to me.
I'd like to think you'd be above hiding them over a light hearted smiley post, but hey ho, do what you need to do
S'disappointing that you won't actually engage me on the subject and prefer to joke it off, is all.
 

RichLFC

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Good result

squad management needs some work IMO. Another 90 minutes for a clearly misfiring Suarez and Gerrard didnt exactly help in terms of saving energy for the weekend, and we wont play yesil or Morgan yet. We dont have many options Brendan, you will have to give some of the strikers in the youth ranks some time on the pitch eventually or it will be forced on you

defensive organisation looked for the most part to be heading a bit more in the right direction, though expected a bit more from Anzhi really, they didnt look up for it which suprised me

Downing, nice goal, has contributed bits and pieces in the EL games. But even Voronin pulled the odd one out of his arse now and then, but relying on these sorts of players is another matter entirely. They bail out when the pressure is on more often than not which is little use to us. Would still be reluctant to use him in the league, and at LB his defending wasnt always the best either

Assaidi though was good I thought. Dont expect loads from a cheap 3m punt but he looks like he can give it a go. Been shielded from the league games so far this season but may well have to feature in those as well at some point and it may be a bit tougher there, but hes pushing for a run out maybe now

Brad jones looks reasonably comfortable as well. Hes not a top class reserve, when you see the likes of friedel and Lloris at Spurs, De Gea and Lindergaard at united etc, its a bit of a way off that but he is not as bad as some of the reserve keepers we have brought to the club and seems to be playing without fear. Which is settling for the defence
 



Rooster

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Good tactics I thought to play "strong" side. No travel involved including the weekend. Had to get points and I must admit I didn't think we'd get the points as easily as we did. Whip the Young Boys back at home and we are just about through. We might have a good value buy in Assaidi. But again we waste chances.
 

Gears

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Good tactics I thought to play "strong" side. No travel involved including the weekend. Had to get points and I must admit I didn't think we'd get the points as easily as we did. Whip the Young Boys back at home and we are just about through. We might have a good value buy in Assaidi. But again we waste chances.
We're turning into arsenal where we are becoming less clinical simply because we're too inclined to pass the ball into the net.

The difference is that suarez is too busy to be patient in the box. He wants to create and score at the same time but it doesn't work that way. Too much energy spent to create means less precision and steam to finish. At least not when you're the top target man.

That is until we gain enough experience in this system that we can use suarez as a messi, but right now gerrard prefers to have a target man in the box because he doesn't have the patience to play the barca way.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Not having any of that, sorry.
He's a 25 year old professional footballer, and he's played 12 games this season.

Sorry, cant be doing with any of this 'he's tired' bollocks.
Sorry mate, you're way off.

He hasn't had a full summer off in 3 years. He's played in the Copas, the World Cup, AND the Olympics. So yes, if he's a bit tired, it's justified because he is one of the only players that has the drive and determination to work his socks of every second of every game.

I'm sure any common man would love to trade their jobs and play for the team they love but until you've reached that level of fitness and play, you have no actual idea what playing 90 minutes of professional, competitive football actually does to your body — never mind doing it 3 days a week on top of 2 training sessions three to four days out of a week. You can't compare it to your own life and laugh it off as if playing competitively for 90 minutes is nothing because you really have no idea whatsoever.

Players do suffer from burn out — this is a scientific fact — and if we aren't careful, Suarez will be one of those players very soon, if not already.
 

lfc.eddie

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We won, players didn't perform well enough, especially the seniors and stars. Too damn bad. I am hoping these guys turn up on Sunday. Oh to those who keep going on Suarez being tired. I think Messi too had not been rested for ages. The boy is still scoring for fun and running with the ball all the time. Can't question that fella's work rate either, but don't see him moaning about needing a break.
 

Dr_J

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Both have a point. Should be careful with Suarez but he's also the type that doesn't stop. Ever. I'm sure if the fitness staff and Suarez himself thought he needed to rest we would have rested him. There is also a chance that Rodgers values this competition, something that doesn't appear to be prevalent on this forum.

Great strike from Downing and a warm reaction from Rodgers. I get the sense that he's still behind Downing even with all his struggles and that's good to see regardless if we want him here by February or not.

Top of the group. Gear up for the derby.
 



No Men in the Box Redux

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Oh to those who keep going on Suarez being tired. I think Messi too had not been rested for ages. The boy is still scoring for fun and running with the ball all the time. Can't question that fella's work rate either, but don't see him moaning about needing a break.
Players don't necessarily know their bodies best. Someone who is overly competitive may keep wanting to play despite it being something that may harm them later on. A good example might be Scott Parker who most definitely shouldn't have played in the Euros this summer, but he did, through pain, and he has been bacl since then. Hasn't even trained.

Part of the managers job is to be as objective as possible and be able to manage all of these problems and figure out what works best in the long term. Suarez is not Messi. No one is Messi except for Messi. Would you say Agger shouldn't be rested so often or have his playing time managed as much because Messi is able to play every game of every competition in every season? No, you wouldn't. Because not only is Messi an anomaly but because every player's body is different and you just can't make comparisons like that.

I personally don't believe that this would have been the best game for Yesil to play in even though Suarez wasn't as effective as usual, but I too am also concerned about Suarez burning out. Again, there are pros to cons to both playing or leaving Suarez (and the other senior squad members for that matter) for this game. I'm not the manager and I can't honestly say I know what would work out best.

All I'm saying is that people who don't want to give credence to the valid arguments made about being worried over player burnouts are deluding themselves with very poor reasoning either by assuming that being a footballer isn't all that difficult at all and being in your mid 20s means that you should be able to play 90 minutes of competitive professional football 3 times a week simply because most of us would PAY to have a job like this or they are, like you, citing examples of other players who have been able to achieve the impossible like Messi.
 

WrinkledMind

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Didn't see the match, just the highlights.So Downing had an average match and still scored.Will take that, cause in most matches we have dominated but had nothing to show for it.

Heard Steven had an awful match.How long before BR does a Carra on him?Or better still shift him to the RW.Poor Hendo needs to play in DM.

Loved the Agger effort.Cheeky.The ref saved the goalie's embarrassment.
 

Hope in your heart

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Well, that was a very good result and performance, against a really strong team.

Finally, we have regathered some solidity at the back: third clean sheet in a row.

Also, we are gathering a bit of pace, with a second victory in a row. The question is: can we make it three now? It would be the first time in this season, and it seems we haven't been able to do this since quite some time (early last season under Kenny).

Hopefully the players will have enough energy in their legs to give a right match to the bitters. Already looking forward to that match! :)


Edit:

Oh and credit where credit is due, that goal from Downing was outstanding. That's where I get all the more frustrated with him. He has quality, there is no way to deny it, but he displays it far too seldom. When played as left back later in the game, he actually improved, got stuck in and contributed more to the game (also with one or two terrible back-passes which put much pressure on his team-mates). Before that, he was generally anonymous, i.e. mediocre.

But my MoM would be Assaidi, whom I think was outstanding with his direct runs, dribbles and crosses.

Other outstanding performers: Jones (impressed how much he seems to have improved lately), Skrtel (could have scored one or two, and was imperial at the back), Wisdom (great game from the young lad again), Sterling (what a talent this boy is, it's a joy to watch him play football).
 

costared

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Gerrard was not at his best but was far from awful.Had to do a fair bit of defensive work and knocked some good passes.Problem is he has set the bar so high everyone jumps on him when he is less than brilliant.
Downings goal was superb but to be honest he was pretty poor for most of the time.
Loved Assaidi, a real box of tricks and Raheem just gets better.
 

Doggie

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Well, bet you didn't see that happening. We top the group with a 1-0 win and a goal from Downing of all people (with his right foot as well). Clearly young Boys are not out of the equation too, there are still 3 games to play and anything can happen and today was a clear example. Well done lads, YNWA.
Indeed - my worse case scenario became the best case scenario lol

As ever, the whingers are out in force, but I was very pleased with the way we played last night. The pressing, passing and movement were excellent and Anji couldn't handle it.

The finishing was missing however, Suarez looked lively but also wasted a lot. Shelvey could have had a couple, same as Stevie G. Glad therefore that someone else stepped in with a goal, and boy did he need that lol