Liverpool Youth Teams Thread

gr_sounder

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Curtis Jones is the reason why I don't see the point in the Havertz deal. Havertz seems a half option but not a perfect one for 4 or 5 roles in 433 but they're the same roles Jones seems a half option for. Not a perfect fit either of them but both seem better suited to 4231. Havertz may be the better talent (not 100% convinced as we haven't seen what Jones could do in Germany) but if he is I don't think it'll be enough of an improvement to deny a place to a passionate, local lad, already here and purchase an extremely expensive player who would have to come and adapt to league and team (not a guarantee look at Keita). If we were buying one or the other I would want the better player regardless of price difference but it doesn't seem a worthwhile deal to me as we already have Jones who could end up special himself.
How about a midfield in 2 years that contains Havertz, Jones, and Fabinho
 

gr_sounder

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And truth is, I'm not kidding about the possibility about a temptacious midfield of Fabinho, Havertz, and Jones.

I think Jones has all the makings of a true star, and I hope that comes to fruition.
In the same way, I think Havertz has all the makings of a truly great player, and having the two of them supporting a front line that contains Mane, Salah, Firmino, Minamino, Werner (pick a combo for the day/time/week if all are still here)... and backed up by the same defense we have now... with current youth in the wings and on the bench.

The fact is, that if Jones, Williams, Hoever, Elliot make it to the first team as even squad players, that's 150M we don't have to buy. It's also not out of the realm of possibility that Alexander's eventual position could be in midfield. Heck there are others in that youth team that could make the step up also.

It will be interesting and fun to see how this team develops into the NEXT team.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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How about a midfield in 2 years that contains Havertz, Jones, and Fabinho
See I don't see that. Basically our 3 man CM is where all the heavy lifting gets done. Our flair and creativity comes from full back and false 9 allowing our wide forwards to shoulder most of the goal scoring burden. Jones or Havertz could be an option as an extremely offensive 8 sometimes or playing wide forward in the way Coutinho played it. But mostly they would be more suited to games we play 4231 in. If we are keeping 433 as our main set up having both would be overkill. You'd only need one or the other. That kind of centre mid set up is more like Man City's than ours which was fine whilst everyone was scared of them and sitting back but not as solid when teams attacked back (especially after losing Kompany). Having players full of flair like Havertz and Jones in our midfield either adds work to the other two CMs and the full backs or asks that player to change their natural game a lot. Like sticking a trailer on a Ferrari because you need it to carry the same load as the Ford Estate it replaced. Just my opinion of course but players like Henderson and Wijnaldum aren't failing to provide creativity from midfield because they can't its because they're too busy performing other roles.
 

Limiescouse

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The way things are are not the way they always must or will be. Our side right now is put together as much to take advantage of what our players excel at as because that is the way Klopp thinks a side should be put together. As the challenges we face change, or the personnel change the way we go about shaping the side will change.

So it's wrong to think that because Mane and Salah are both really fast we can only consider players in those roles who are also super fast (and we've considered and played plenty who arent). It's wrong to think that for the next several season we will bank on our FBs being a primary source of creativity and force the midfield to accommodate that. It's wrong to think the midfield will always have to be primarily table setters for other players.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The way things are are not the way they always must or will be. Our side right now is put together as much to take advantage of what our players excel at as because that is the way Klopp thinks a side should be put together. As the challenges we face change, or the personnel change the way we go about shaping the side will change.

So it's wrong to think that because Mane and Salah are both really fast we can only consider players in those roles who are also super fast (and we've considered and played plenty who arent). It's wrong to think that for the next several season we will bank on our FBs being a primary source of creativity and force the midfield to accommodate that. It's wrong to think the midfield will always have to be primarily table setters for other players.
But it's working pretty damn well. We don't have to change, there are like for like players out there within our considerable means to bring in and some coming through the academy that seem great match ups to our important senior players (Gomez=Hoever, Salah/Mane=Elliott etc.). If we can maintain something that has only dropped 19 points so far in the last two seasons whilst winning every international cup competition (so far) smashing and setting records all over the place on the way.... why just randomly buy or bring in players that would lead to us changing that and hoping we maintain our success?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Tonight U23s game away at Blackburn has been postponed. Waterlogged pitch.
By the way just an opportunity to say a quick thank you because having someone like you on these boards is absolutely brilliant. I'd have no clue on what's going on at youth level these days without you and a few others dedicating so much time to it.
 

Limiescouse

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But it's working pretty damn well. We don't have to change, there are like for like players out there within our considerable means to bring in and some coming through the academy that seem great match ups to our important senior players (Gomez=Hoever, Salah/Mane=Elliott etc.). If we can maintain something that has only dropped 19 points so far in the last two seasons whilst winning every international cup competition (so far) smashing and setting records all over the place on the way.... why just randomly buy or bring in players that would lead to us changing that and hoping we maintain our success?
Again Strawman. No one has said we would randomly identify targets. Nor am I saying we will change just for change sake.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Again Strawman. No one has said we would randomly identify targets. Nor am I saying we will change just for change sake.
Well what you are suggesting is that "or the personnel change the way we go about shaping the side will change" well we are in control of that personnel change. We have never been a more desirable destination or as financially strong as we currently are. Our grounds future had never looked more shining or special. Our academy is getting better and better players graduating. We are as close to being 100% in charge of our future as we will ever be and with quite possibly the best recruitment team in the sport. How we are playing now should be maintained, and kept fresh with academy graduates and the odd purchase or two per year, for as long as it is effective for. At least in my opinion. As this came from me saying I couldn't see us changing the formula/set up of the side in the very near future to set up a CM of Fabinho, Havertz and Jones that would have a huge, at the moment seemingly unnecessary, structural change to our side, seemingly simply because a good player, Havertz, could be available. If he isn't a need and it was a purchase and massive change simply because he is a good and available player it would be quite random. Why take years to build something, get it running damn near perfect, then rip up those plans and start again because a top talent is available.
 

Limiescouse

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We are in control and we are an attractive destination, but for as good as the recruitment team is we cannot (yet) create clones in a lab. Anyone we bring in to replace anyone is going to have as many difference as they have similarities. That will change the side in a way the other players will adapt to find the right balance. Sometimes the change is clear sometimes it is subtle. But that is simply what happens in a game in which there are 11 players all working together to try to create something coordinated and coherent. And it doesnt even require a change in personnel. Sometimes it just happens over time with the same group, or as the internal dynamics change.

Literally no one is arguing to just buy someone for shits and giggles, or because hes good with no vision for how he fits in. Yes, that would be random if we did that, but its a strawman. But the point is that while what we have now is a side that play according to Klopp's vision the details are due to the make up the specific players who Klopp thinks are his best XI. As that changes, and change cannot be stopped, the balance among them will likely change.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We are in control and we are an attractive destination, but for as good as the recruitment team is we cannot (yet) create clones in a lab. Anyone we bring in to replace anyone is going to have as many difference as they have similarities. That will change the side in a way the other players will adapt to find the right balance. Sometimes the change is clear sometimes it is subtle. But that is simply what happens in a game in which there are 11 players all working together to try to create something coordinated and coherent. And it doesnt even require a change in personnel. Sometimes it just happens over time with the same group, or as the internal dynamics change.

Literally no one is arguing to just buy someone for shits and giggles, or because hes good with no vision for how he fits in. Yes, that would be random if we did that, but its a strawman. But the point is that while what we have now is a side that play according to Klopp's vision the details are due to the make up the specific players who Klopp thinks are his best XI. As that changes, and change cannot be stopped, the balance among them will likely change.
Actually that was what I was replying to. A "why don't we" post followed by a suggestion that is radically different from what we currently have.

And subtle differences in personnel who can achieve a very similar job playing in a very similar way is a huge difference to what started this conversation that you then jumped in on. You do this quite a lot. You see something I say, argue against it, then why I explain my viewpoint accuse me of straw manning and that nobody is saying it just because you're not saying it. You're not the one the difference in viewpoint started with. I wasnt ever saying you said these things.
 

Prolix

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Actually that was what I was replying to. A "why don't we" post followed by a suggestion that is radically different from what we currently have.
I think the suggestion is that we could feasibly make a series of natural, organic changes over several years (probably more than the 2 stated) and end up with a different midfield blend than we have now, not that it is an immediate need to overhaul.

You basically denying this possibility is far more strident than @Limiescouse saying "well, why not?"

Evolving will be very important to the team. Klopp's principles can take untold permutations on the field.
 

Sweeting

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Sweeting

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No word yet on who will take over the U23 team. The most straightforward thing would seem to be to move Barry Lewtas into the role and promote Marc Bridge-Wilkinson from the U16s to the U18s. If they leave it until the end of the season they might be looking to bring in someone new.
 

auzziez

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I don't know why I have a feeling that this is going to be Pep Lijnders Mk II.
Go to get first team managerial experience, come short of expectations and then back home stronger having learnt from the experience.
Don't get me wrong. I hope he succeeds at Blackpool, but something in me isn't convinced.
 

iftikhar

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I wonder if it will harm the growth of our Academy players? It seemed he was the key behind the growth of so many youth players in recent times.
 

rupzzz

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I wonder if it will harm the growth of our Academy players? It seemed he was the key behind the growth of so many youth players in recent times.
Under Klopp, the club have sought to put an identity together that outlives the personnel. Disappointed Critch is going, but I have little doubt someone will step into his shoes. We've prev seen the loss of Pep, he came back in a dif role, and subsequently we brought it Matos.

Someone will be in soon enough, and as @Sweeting suggests, it'll prob see changes in roles for the likes of Lewtas and BW.
 

Zoran

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U19 XI v Benfica:

Jaros, Hoever, vdBerg, Boyes, Norris, Clarkson, Morton, Cain, Elliott, Bearne, Longstaff

Ojrzynski, Savage, Quansah, Bradley, Brookwell, Beck, O'Rourke
 

Sweeting

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Don't understand this being a one leg tie - huge advantage to Benfica with us having to travel across there for the game.

Anyway, as I say that Benfica score. 1-0.
 

Kopstar

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Don't understand this being a one leg tie - huge advantage to Benfica with us having to travel across there for the game.

Anyway, as I say that Benfica score. 1-0.
Presumably away goals rule still applies, though?
 

Speckydodge

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It's always been single leg knockout as far as I know. It's strange because the group stages are setup to mimic the seniors groups but then there's other teams like Derby who are now in it at this stage also.

3 - 0 now.
 

Sweeting

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It's always been single leg knockout as far as I know. It's strange because the group stages are setup to mimic the seniors groups but then there's other teams like Derby who are now in it at this stage also.

3 - 0 now.
It's a bizarre set up as travel is a massive factor in progression at this level. Youth team players aren't flying first class etc. unlike the first team.

Derby have come in to it through the League Winners path - they won the U18s PL last season and so, because Derby didn't qualify for the CL, had a separate group stage that they went through against other clubs in similar situations.

They beat Minsk home and away - 2-0 away, 7-2 home - and then Akranes 2-1 away and 4-1 home. They've joined the main tournament by beating Dortmund 3-1 at home.