Loris Karius (GK) Bayer Leverkusen / Besiktas

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gr_sounder

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#92
Apparently Karius has given Alisson the 1 shirt. He’ll still wear 13 tonight but he will have 1 shirt on Sun.
Nice gesture from Karius.
Karius has taken this entire situation about as well and professionally as possible.
He's really taken a hit over these last few months. I will root for him to get his mojo back wherever he goes.
 

Zoran

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#93
Karius has taken this entire situation about as well and professionally as possible.
He's really taken a hit over these last few months. I will root for him to get his mojo back wherever he goes.
Same.
 

Walshy07

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#95
Disappointed to hear contributors to the normally excellent Anfield Wrap calling him (and Mignolet) ‘bellends’ last night.
Felt that show was one of the worst Ive ever heard on there. (I never listen to the pods re AFQ, Dream Team, Womens team or The Rider)
The bloke with the really gruff deep voice - Im not a fan of.
The rest are sound.
 

Kopstar

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#98
Apparently Karius has given Alisson the 1 shirt. He’ll still wear 13 tonight but he will have 1 shirt on Sun.
Nice gesture from Karius.
I note that it's still not been confirmed by the club but as I said yesterday it should be confirmed by tonight (either way). If Alisson does get the no.1 shirt I'm not sure it would be quite accurate to say that Karius has generously 'given' it to him. Still, a trivial issue all in all.
 

gr_sounder

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#99
I note that it's still not been confirmed by the club but as I said yesterday it should be confirmed by tonight (either way). If Alisson does get the no.1 shirt I'm not sure it would be quite accurate to say that Karius has generously 'given' it to him. Still, a trivial issue all in all.
Just noticed your highlighted word is "given".
I've never known Liverpool to take numbers away from someone who was already wearing that number. Not if they were full fledged members of the first team and established players at least. I would think that the only way for Alisson to get that shirt number would be if Karius was to give it up. Whether or not it was "generously" done might be questioned, but I don't think it was taken from him. That is.... unless a deal for Karius is so far along and anticipated that we're not planning to have him around for more than possibly the first game anyway.

Let me state it another way... I would hope the club wouldn't forcibly request any player give up their shirt number unless that player was definitely on the way out. If the club were to force this... I wouldn't call that trivial. Yes it's only a shirt number and contrary to all our beliefs, it doesn't make you play any differently to have a certain number on your uniform. But if the club were to force Karius to give up his shirt number, that's really the last possible insult to injury he could get.
 

dockers_strike

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Well Bobby gave up his number for Mo but that's clearly a different situation since Bobby was happy to change to No. 9. And this is the problem as I see it with squad numbers. Ive never liked them and thought it was a shit idea when Arsenal suggested it be implemented in the PL. They promptly did an about face a few years later and wanted to go back to 1 - 11 on the day. Who needs player names on the back of a shirt? Even if you have 20:20 vision you cant read the name on a pitch if the player is more than15 metres away from you and, you should be able to recognise your own players anyway. I couldnt give a stuff about the oppos team so not bothered who 'they' are.
 

Kopstar

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Just noticed your highlighted word is "given".
I've never known Liverpool to take numbers away from someone who was already wearing that number. Not if they were full fledged members of the first team and established players at least. I would think that the only way for Alisson to get that shirt number would be if Karius was to give it up. Whether or not it was "generously" done might be questioned, but I don't think it was taken from him. That is.... unless a deal for Karius is so far along and anticipated that we're not planning to have him around for more than possibly the first game anyway.

Let me state it another way... I would hope the club wouldn't forcibly request any player give up their shirt number unless that player was definitely on the way out. If the club were to force this... I wouldn't call that trivial. Yes it's only a shirt number and contrary to all our beliefs, it doesn't make you play any differently to have a certain number on your uniform. But if the club were to force Karius to give up his shirt number, that's really the last possible insult to injury he could get.
The starting point is that a player's squad number is at the discretion of the club. When players join they might enter into an agreement with the club for a certain squad number and for that agreement to last for a certain amount of time. A player's image rights is often dependent on having a certain number and you can see that LK has built up an image around LK1. No doubt LK13 (or whatever) will dilute his 'brand'. If LK has 'given up' the number 1 then it will almost certainly have involved compensation (depending on the terms of any agreement between him and the club with regard to his squad number).

That's what I was referring to - it wouldn't simply have been a matter of Karius just generously handing it over but one of understanding a) where he will be playing football next season and b) agreeing to vary or terminate any existing entitlement he may have to that number.

We'd all like to think of players being magnanimous but it's not always that straightforward (and hasn't been here as far as I know).
 

Noo Noo

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The starting point is that a player's squad number is at the discretion of the club. When players join they might enter into an agreement with the club for a certain squad number and for that agreement to last for a certain amount of time. A player's image rights is often dependent on having a certain number and you can see that LK has built up an image around LK1. No doubt LK13 (or whatever) will dilute his 'brand'. If LK has 'given up' the number 1 then it will almost certainly have involved compensation (depending on the terms of any agreement between him and the club with regard to his squad number).

That's what I was referring to - it wouldn't simply have been a matter of Karius just generously handing it over but one of understanding a) where he will be playing football next season and b) agreeing to vary or terminate any existing entitlement he may have to that number.

We'd all like to think of players being magnanimous but it's not always that straightforward (and hasn't been here as far as I know).
I've wondered how image rights actually works as it can appear, from the outside to be enormously complex. Everything from a name printed on a shirt to PC / console gaming, photos etc. Your post has just made me realise that its actually a deeper topic than I first thought
 

gr_sounder

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The starting point is that a player's squad number is at the discretion of the club. When players join they might enter into an agreement with the club for a certain squad number and for that agreement to last for a certain amount of time. A player's image rights is often dependent on having a certain number and you can see that LK has built up an image around LK1. No doubt LK13 (or whatever) will dilute his 'brand'. If LK has 'given up' the number 1 then it will almost certainly have involved compensation (depending on the terms of any agreement between him and the club with regard to his squad number).

That's what I was referring to - it wouldn't simply have been a matter of Karius just generously handing it over but one of understanding a) where he will be playing football next season and b) agreeing to vary or terminate any existing entitlement he may have to that number.

We'd all like to think of players being magnanimous but it's not always that straightforward (and hasn't been here as far as I know).
Oh I wouldn't have thought it was completely magnamimous... and I completely understand that player numbers are at the discretion of the club.

I was only pointing out that I think it would be a really crappy thing for the club to force to happen with the things Karius has been through over the last few months. That's all. I'm not naive enough to think LK would happilly turn over that number, nor would he happily turn over his position on the team. That said, I think the club is doing all they can to give him the transfer he needs and this is all largely moot.
 

Kopstar

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I've wondered how image rights actually works as it can appear, from the outside to be enormously complex. Everything from a name printed on a shirt to PC / console gaming, photos etc. Your post has just made me realise that its actually a deeper topic than I first thought
Not even the half of it mate. They are becoming increasingly complex particularly with regards to tax, off-shore vehicles, % attributable to the UK and % attributable to the rest of the world, amount of appearances, brands in competition with the club, image, audio, film, memorabilia etc.
 

gr_sounder

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Well Bobby gave up his number for Mo but that's clearly a different situation since Bobby was happy to change to No. 9. And this is the problem as I see it with squad numbers. Ive never liked them and thought it was a shit idea when Arsenal suggested it be implemented in the PL. They promptly did an about face a few years later and wanted to go back to 1 - 11 on the day. Who needs player names on the back of a shirt? Even if you have 20:20 vision you cant read the name on a pitch if the player is more than15 metres away from you and, you should be able to recognise your own players anyway. I couldnt give a stuff about the oppos team so not bothered who 'they' are.
To quote/paraphrase Yogurt (Mel Brooks) "Merchandising Merchandising Merchandising, where the real money from the sport is made. Mane#10-the T-shirt, Firmino#9-the Coloring Book, Salah#11-the Lunch box, Milner#7 the Breakfast Cereal, Lovren#6 the flame thrower (the kids love that one).".
Money is made because people buy certain shirts with names/numbers on the back to show their support for not onlyt he club but their favorite player. It ends up making more money for all involved.

Plus, players do tend to be superstitious and prefer certain numbers if possible.... even if it's only to show homage to a player they knew growing up who wore that number.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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Oh I wouldn't have thought it was completely magnamimous... and I completely understand that player numbers are at the discretion of the club.

I was only pointing out that I think it would be a really crappy thing for the club to force to happen with the things Karius has been through over the last few months. That's all. I'm not naive enough to think LK would happilly turn over that number, nor would he happily turn over his position on the team. That said, I think the club is doing all they can to give him the transfer he needs and this is all largely moot.
I'm actually a bit surprised it has happened and said a while back I wasn't sure I saw it happening, largely because of the impact on Karius on handing over his number on top of everything else that happened... just makes it that much harder for him to come back imo. For that reason alone I'm starting to think it's an indication he's done here. Of course we're dependent on offers so may not happen in this window (particularly with limited time now to bring in a new no2), but I'd be very surprised if he's still here in 12 months now.
 

gr_sounder

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I'm actually a bit surprised it has happened and said a while back I wasn't sure I saw it happening, largely because of the impact on Karius on handing over his number on top of everything else that happened... just makes it that much harder for him to come back imo. For that reason alone I'm starting to think it's an indication he's done here. Of course we're dependent on offers so may not happen in this window (particularly with limited time now to bring in a new no2), but I'd be very surprised if he's still here in 12 months now.
Agree completely. If this has happened "willingly or not".... it suggests to me that a move is imminent for Karius.
 

Kopstar

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I'm actually a bit surprised it has happened and said a while back I wasn't sure I saw it happening, largely because of the impact on Karius on handing over his number on top of everything else that happened... just makes it that much harder for him to come back imo. For that reason alone I'm starting to think it's an indication he's done here. Of course we're dependent on offers so may not happen in this window (particularly with limited time now to bring in a new no2), but I'd be very surprised if he's still here in 12 months now.
Mignolet's still here though...only one of them need to go really.
 

Noo Noo

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I'm actually a bit surprised it has happened and said a while back I wasn't sure I saw it happening, largely because of the impact on Karius on handing over his number on top of everything else that happened... just makes it that much harder for him to come back imo. For that reason alone I'm starting to think it's an indication he's done here. Of course we're dependent on offers so may not happen in this window (particularly with limited time now to bring in a new no2), but I'd be very surprised if he's still here in 12 months now.
Agree. Sounds like a concession to me.
 

Noo Noo

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Not even the half of it mate. They are becoming increasingly complex particularly with regards to tax, off-shore vehicles, % attributable to the UK and % attributable to the rest of the world, amount of appearances, brands in competition with the club, image, audio, film, memorabilia etc.
Many thanks. Scary stuff. I have done a little photography where image rights are huge topic but this is a different level altogether.

Hypothetical question or two if I may

Say Messi is asked to appear on the cover of a video game wearing his Barcelona shirt. I assume this can be treated as 2 separate issues. 1 with the video game owner discussing with Messi, another separate discussion with Barca.

Now what happens if there's a pic of Messi in his Speedo's. Do Barca have any sway here? Do they have any financial entitlement?

I know much comes down to individual contracts but some insight might be useful in understanding how complex your average (or otherwise) professional footballer contract actually is.
 

RedBaron

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Tricky, dead men’s shoes ...,. Who is going to replace the most expensive keeper in the world....?
 

redfanman

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I'm actually a bit surprised it has happened and said a while back I wasn't sure I saw it happening, largely because of the impact on Karius on handing over his number on top of everything else that happened... just makes it that much harder for him to come back imo. For that reason alone I'm starting to think it's an indication he's done here. Of course we're dependent on offers so may not happen in this window (particularly with limited time now to bring in a new no2), but I'd be very surprised if he's still here in 12 months now.
Can't see why Karius keeping the 1 shirt would make a difference. He clearly is no longer first choice.
 

rupzzz

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Disappointed to hear contributors to the normally excellent Anfield Wrap calling him (and Mignolet) ‘bellends’ last night.
That's not very good.

I listen to the Radio City Talk and the TAW free pods, plus watch the talking reads and they are usually very good at not throwing them under the bus. They've actually defended Mignolets charter/attitude a number of times.

Thing with TAW as a whole is that the contributors have their own opinions, and they are good because they are fans talking about footy, not journo's, so think it's always going to get a bit scratchy at times with certain contributors.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Can't see why Karius keeping the 1 shirt would make a difference. He clearly is no longer first choice.
Because if we're still in favour of keeping him all taking his number away is going to achieve is making him feel worse after all that's happened to him over the past couple of months, and that much harder to rehabilitate. For all the talk of him 'giving' the shirt to Alisson I'd imagine it's still quite humiliating.
 



Caradoc

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Again we’re left speculating about issues that will hopefully be clarified by the club at the appropriate time.

So long as young Loris is a Liverpool player he will get my full backing as a supporter. When he leaves I will wish him all the very best for the future. That’s all there is to it really (or should be)!

As for shirt numbers well I really don’t give a stuff ....... !
 

Mascot88

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That's not very good.

I listen to the Radio City Talk and the TAW free pods, plus watch the talking reads and they are usually very good at not throwing them under the bus. They've actually defended Mignolets charter/attitude a number of times.

Thing with TAW as a whole is that the contributors have their own opinions, and they are good because they are fans talking about footy, not journo's, so think it's always going to get a bit scratchy at times with certain contributors.
It’s the best out there, and I’ve been a subscriber for years. They usually excel at taking a more measured tone. But they are not adverse to getting carried away, and especially as they are all mates they can sometimes end up egging each other on.

A few selections, mostly Ben Johnson.

“This time last year our understudy was our fucking number one, whichever one it was, one bellend or the other”

“You could put fucking anyone in goal for us as long as it isn’t either one of them two. I wouldn’t fucking care”

“The players realised.....the keeper isn’t just the idiot that picks the ball out of the net.”

“Those other two blerts would have just let someone else deal with it”

“There’ll be a difference in the crowd, cos they won’t have to watch a fucking bellend (in goal)”

It was clearly them getting carried away when Johnson said

“It’s the first time in 10 years we haven’t had an absolute gobshite in goal”

Ten years ago Pepe Reina was our keeper, and he would be for five more years. Dickhead.
 

rupzzz

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@Mascot88 Johnson is purposely like that I find. Usually his post match ratings where the goes for it, crossing the line from time to time.

I struggle to get the 2 pods a week listened to so never subscribed, instead going for the LFC subscription.

Like you, TAWing for years.
 

redbj

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It’s the best out there, and I’ve been a subscriber for years. They usually excel at taking a more measured tone. But they are not adverse to getting carried away, and especially as they are all mates they can sometimes end up egging each other on.

A few selections, mostly Ben Johnson.

“This time last year our understudy was our fucking number one, whichever one it was, one bellend or the other”

“You could put fucking anyone in goal for us as long as it isn’t either one of them two. I wouldn’t fucking care”

“The players realised.....the keeper isn’t just the idiot that picks the ball out of the net.”

“Those other two blerts would have just let someone else deal with it”

“There’ll be a difference in the crowd, cos they won’t have to watch a fucking bellend (in goal)”

It was clearly them getting carried away when Johnson said

“It’s the first time in 10 years we haven’t had an absolute gobshite in goal”

Ten years ago Pepe Reina was our keeper, and he would be for five more years. Dickhead.

ive tried listening to TAW just recently (again).

i dont know what you guys see in them. i really dont. and i know im in the minority here.....

absolute bluffers and the 'banter' is so lame, to me they only getting street credit becuase of their accents and i dont mean that in any inflamatory away apart from, if they werent scousers, they be on everyones ignore.

and just to qualify, im not worried about them not having heaps of knowledge, i love a bit of fan input, but its when you state it from a point of authority....'this IS whats happening', not 'in my opinion, these guys are'...then it just grates for me.

some of the rubbish they speak, and go on and on and on....

some such garbage the other day about selling Lallanna becuase they dont know if he'll be fit for a full season....without the bleeding obvious point of whos buying him, and who are we replacing him with, but what was worse is some claptrap about 'knowns, hopes and wishes' in the squad, and you need 20 plus 'knowns'.
 

Noo Noo

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ive tried listening to TAW just recently (again).

i dont know what you guys see in them. i really dont. and i know im in the minority here.....

absolute bluffers and the 'banter' is so lame, to me they only getting street credit becuase of their accents and i dont mean that in any inflamatory away apart from, if they werent scousers, they be on everyones ignore.

and just to qualify, im not worried about them not having heaps of knowledge, i love a bit of fan input, but its when you state it from a point of authority....'this IS whats happening', not 'in my opinion, these guys are'...then it just grates for me.

some of the rubbish they speak, and go on and on and on....

some such garbage the other day about selling Lallanna becuase they dont know if he'll be fit for a full season....without the bleeding obvious point of whos buying him, and who are we replacing him with, but what was worse is some claptrap about 'knowns, hopes and wishes' in the squad, and you need 20 plus 'knowns'.
I don't listen to them either. No time to be honest but I'll admit I've seen a couple of their Youtube vids, and only watched parts of them.

one thing that does crack me up about certain football fans is this notion that moving and buying a player is done upon the click of a finger. Apparently its so easy the club should go and do this, that and whatever.
 
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