Lucas Leiva (CB/DM) Lazio

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by StrongINTheAir, Dec 27, 2016.

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  1. Irishanfield

    Irishanfield Well-Known Member

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    I'm sick of people continuously knocking Lucas. Might not be the greatest player in the world but he has been a loyal servant of the club and I tip my hat to the lad for that as he is proud to wear the liverbird. yes his time at the club is probably over as he'll probably have few chances next season but I wish him nothing but the best
     
  2. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    I generally agree with this however he has a rather scarily rabid support who refuse to acknowledge any, deserved or undeserved, criticism of him and insist on both building him up and knocking others down.

    That prompts those I'd consider to have a more level opinion to try bring things back down to reality which then looks like we are against him. (I only see one or two on the extreme side of not giving him any credit at all over the years.)

    He's had good times and he's had bad. He's a long running servant of the club who has done everything within his ability to be a model pro and not let the club down off the pitch whilst putting 100% into his efforts on the pitch.

    At one point he was developing, quickly, into one of the best DMs around. Unfortunately he got injured which seriously damaged his pace and mobility. This limited him but he was still a good squad member, however as he got older and the team played in more and more challenging ways he could offer less and less with his limitations in playing style.

    He did well enough transitioning to emergency backup CB to add to the same role in DM. This probably added another season to his career here.

    However he is, at this stage, a highly professional, emergency back up player who, despite his positive influence in the locker room, no longer justifies his main squad wages or his position as 1 of 17 foreign players we can list.

    He should be respected and thought of well enough but this should be his last season as it would mean a real cock up this summer if we start next season needing him.
     
  3. Irishanfield

    Irishanfield Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that about sums it up for me.

    Just really irritates me the level of personal abuse that he receives especially as these same people usually are giving out about the lack of loyalty of modern footballers
     
  4. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

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    I do agree with your post, however, the last paragraph i am not sure. I do hope we get 3/4 signings that will strengthen the first team + Subs Bench. If he does stay as a squad player next season I would not be too disappointed. What I mean is that I would prefer one of our u23 players come through as squad players rather than buying squad players. I have reread my post a couple of times, does it make sense?
     
  5. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Don't confuse with loyalty and self worth. If a club with big reputation came in for him and let him spell his own terms, do you think he would have turned them down time and again?
     
  6. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    Seems what you are saying but the 2 problems with keeping him is the limits on squad size and wage bill restraints. Lucas gets paid like a player who should be starting as often as he is on the bench. Along with new recruits and what we currently have Lucas would only be making the match day squad if there are injuries/suspensions and maybe not even then. He is currently competing with Klavan and Gomez to be third choice CB and that'll drop to 4th if we bring in another starting level CB. For our long term good that's a competition we should hope he loses to Gomez. In DM he's already behind Henderson and Can for that position and if we bring in someone like Keita we'd have another back up option too. Depending on what we do at LB Milner may even be ahead of him in the options in CM. We have a limit of 17 we can list. He doesn't strike me as a required 1 on that list.
     
  7. Irishanfield

    Irishanfield Well-Known Member

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    Look I'll take him on face value. weren't inter sniffing around him for the last year or two but we wouldn't sell and he stayed despite only being a bit part player. He could have done what others do like whinge and moan in the press etc
    As I've said he's not the greatest footballer in the world but has shown respect for the club and the fans and I hold him in high regard for that.
    Yeah I think his time here is done and I'll be sad to see him go but he will have my respect forever
     
  8. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

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    I agree with your opinions and have posted similar elsewhere, (Milner/Gomez threads i think) and I am not saying that we should keep him at the expense of suitable additions and the potential that the Gomez offers. If all things remain as they are, which I doubt, then he does have a valid role to play in the 1st 17. With suitable additions then his role reduces further to a squad player and with the potential of 50-60 games(?) next season, IMO, he would be a decent squad player to have.

    I don't know enough about the wage bill constraints to give a thought opinion on it. My feelings are that as we progress over the next 2 seasons we may end up with 2/3 good squad players( not regular 1st 17) who are in and around 1st team player wages. (Again it's just a feeling with nothing to back it up :-) )
     
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  9. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Mostly loan deal mate.... he played his part, did his job, unspectacular as it may be. Just that every player will be criticised when they are doing badly, and praised when did well. He is no different.
     
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  10. football.tiger

    football.tiger TIA Squad Member

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    Attacking and ranting to the ether again I see...
     
  11. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    The 17 is not how I think you think that I mean.... I think....

    For Europe we are limited to 25 senior players (under 21 players who have been at the club less than 2 years count to this number too I think).

    4 places are reserved for club developed so unless we keep and list Flanagan, Wisdom, Dunn and Randall we actually are limited to 21 total.

    Of those 21 another 4 are listed as association trained but we have no problem here with Milner, Clyne, Ward, Henderson, Stewart, Lallana, Sturridge and Ings.

    We get a maximum of 17 for foreign players (but 21/25 maximum) and as it stands we have Mignolet, Karius, Manninger, Bogdan, Matip, Lovren, Klavan, Moreno, Lucas, Can, Wijnaldum, Grujic, Markovic, Mane, Coutinho, Origi and Firmino.

    So at the moment we have 25 that has to be limited to 21 and we need to make room for new signings.

    Any one not on that list doesn't play in Europe. In premier league it's easier and simpler. 25 of which at least 8 places are reserved for homegrown so before signings we are right as it stands but can imagine some moving on for spaces for new signings.
     
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  12. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Well, Gerrard want him to stay.

    Liverpool legend and current academy coach Steven Gerrard has expressed his hope that Lucas Leiva stays beyond the summer.

    The Brazilian has been at the club for over 10 years although his first-team opportunities appear to be diminishing and he is planning talks with boss Jurgen Klopp about his future.

    Gerrard has hailed Lucas as one of the best examples for the youngsters that Gerrard himself now coaches at the club and expressed his wish that the man he captained for eight years decides to stay at the club.

    "I just smile when I think of Lucas because I've spoken about the player and what he gives to the team with and without the ball, but the person is just as important for me," he told the club's official website.

    "He is certainly one of the best people I've met through my career. I've got plenty of time for him.

    "He's a credit to his family. Whatever they decide to do, I wish them all the best. Hopefully it's still here, I'd like him to stay."

    https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/gerrard-has-lucas-hopes-1851609.html
     
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  13. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    The best comment is that we have loads of players who are excellent with the ball. What Stevie wants to achieve is teaching them what Lucas does when he doesn't have the ball. So, it's endless decoy drills for the lads then.
     
  14. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    If Lucas has a British passport, does he count as a foreign player?
     
  15. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

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    Ahh ok.. I now get what you're saying and I see the 17. I went back over your posts and your points are clearer. Thanks.

    Now this might take this thread on a tangent,probably a good thing lol

    From the list I can see 4 / 5 moving on IMO, in order of most to least likely. Bogdan, Markovic, Manninger, Moreno, Lucas.
    Bogdan because we have quality GK's on loan in Ward and sorry forgot the other GK name (Ryan? ).
    Markovic, who I felt had potential but even though he has done well at Hull there are better out there and in the u23.
    Moreno because,apart from obvious things :-), Gomez can and has played LB, possibility of new LB and Milner. I hope this does not become another "Summer of Hector etc" :-)
    Lucas for reasons we discussed Earlier:-):think:
    Manninger... Hummm Could he be moving into a coaching role?

    :think: do you think there are others? If we had this exchange in Jan/Feb, many would have considered Migs as First out.. :-).

    That does give good scope to add quality and depth.
     
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  16. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Foreign is not the best term to use. Nationality is irrelevant, where you played your football during your developmental years (prior to turning 21) is what matters. That is why Cesc and Clichy are "home grown" and Dier is not.
     
  17. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    And spells on the bench.. Sorry?? too soon??
     
  18. Irishanfield

    Irishanfield Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree about the criticism and it is justified but some of the comments by certain people is downright insulting and unnecessarily . Wasn't aiming any of that at you btw
     
  19. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    From your 5 to get rid of (which I agree with as bare minimum) we'd have room on the domestic squad list for league and cups but it'd still only free up one place on the list for European football I think. I counted 25 and we'd only be able to list 21 meaning if we want to bring in 6 players or so we need to get rid of 10.
     
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  20. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    If Lucas make even one mistake in a game then as you say certain people will moan page after page. Some of the insults is so insulting that even a certain paper would be proud of them. Lucas is the only player that is ok to call whatever insulting thing you can imagine up without being banned. I don't know why it is ok to do it but it clearly is. That is the main reason to why the insults is still going on because the ones that do it know that they won't get banned.
     
  21. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    Did you just say the moderators are biased?
     
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  22. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the ones that hate Lucas because they clearly do should listen to what our players and Gerrard say about him and how important he is for us off and on the pitch.

    Maybe they lie but I doubt it very much. Lucas is our key player off the pitch. He is the most important player off the pitch. Before you want him gone maybe you should think about how replace his leadership in the dressing room. It isn't that easy. Top clubs have tried and failed time after time when they tried to replace the most important player in the dressing room.

    Squad building isn't only about the starting XI. It is about building a squad. Building a squad that is good enough on and off the pitch. A squad that have enough leadership to win trophies. A squad that is at his best in tough times.
     
  23. Maarz

    Maarz New Member

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    Not trying to put words in your mouth - obviously misunderstood your last message.

    Could you find me the article where Lucas admits he tried leaving? Because it has always been my understanding that the club tried selling him rather than him proactively trying to leave - massive difference.

    I am not against the club selling him (even though he will probably leave for free), but only if his replacement is a clear improvement - i.e. a first team player who can step into that DM role, like a Kante.

    If we are allowing a squad player to leave for free and are replacing him with an equal squad player, I just dont see the point - would rather spend that money elsewhere...
     
  24. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    You just need to read this thread to get the answer to that. I will ask you one question. Why isn't KCollins banned? Read the rules and he/she/it should have been banned a long time ago. He isn't alone breaking the rules in this thread.
     
  25. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Could you pinpoint the rules one broke for being critical over a player?
     
  26. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Critical is ok, insulting and throwing shit at them isn't. It isn't ok either to post the same shit over and over again. Discuss a player and do it in a way that lead to more interesting discussions. It is ok to what for example KCollins done in this thread?
     
  27. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Be very careful what you say though...
    This isn't the first time I see you throwing that "won't get banned" statement whenever someone disagree with you with regards to anything Lucas. You do post the same shit over and over again too.... so let's not throw stones when living in glass house, shall we?
     
  28. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    He was leaving for Besiktas for first team football before the club cancelled the deal;

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.li...s/lucas-leiva-very-close-leaving-10017907.amp

    Talks more in these quotes;

    https://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/lucas-explains-how-close-he-was-to-leaving-liverpool/

    This January he was talking of leaving for game time again;

    http://outside90.com/lucas-leiva-i-may-have-to-leave-liverpool/

    Where he admitted he's nearly left many times;

    http://www.tribalfootball.com/artic...-been-close-to-leaving-many-times-but-4179744

    One of those times (or two);

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...confirms-he-is-seeking-reds-exit-9812794.html

    Absolutely nothing wrong with a footballer wanting to leave to play football though in my eyes.
     
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  29. gr_sounder

    gr_sounder Always Watching

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    Can I summarize Lucas Leiva with this? (really have no idea why I am even trying but...)

    - He's a good person --- the kind that will remain with you, play hard, and be a standup citizen and could be a role-model for being a professional to younger players

    - He's a decent footballer --- good enough to be a significant player on a mid to bottom half Premier League team, but not one that is fighting for titles and Champion's League places.

    Basically, he'll give you everything he has.... but sadly that's not good enough for the quality of team that we have been trying to be.



    Oh and one more thing... for the purposes of THIS THREAD which is in the Transfer Rumors section.... can we keep the discussion largely to his prospects of being transferred, and leave the analysis of everything else to his player thread. I already completely ignore that thread (for obvious reasons) and only open this one as I think there might be information about teams looking to pick him up.

    Thanks
     
  30. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should read KCollins posts in this thread. Start at page five.
     
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