Lucas Leiva (CB/DM) Lazio

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by StrongINTheAir, Dec 27, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jase

    Jase Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    4,240
    didn't you see the exquisite assist he got for Can's bicycle kick goal?.. admittedly it was probably intended as a shot but still.. come on
     
  2. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    708
    So it is now called throwing shit at a player if you say that he backed out of challenges when he clearly did that. That means that you are not allowed to tell the truth of what happened. It isn't a lie or anything. Only telling what a player did. If a player backs out of challenges then he deserves to get criticism. Then he isn't giving 100%. Then he puts his team mates in problem.

    I also only said that I think that Clyne isn't good enough in the attacking half. Is that a lie? Is that throwing shit at him?

    Compare that to how some posters post outright lies about Lucas. It isn't opinions. It is lies.
     
    prest likes this.
  3. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    708
    If you call what I said throwing shit at our players then IMO more than 95% of the posters do the same.
     
  4. prest

    prest Banned Users

    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    248
    When Klopp calls us a possession-based side, you'd imagine effectively maintaining possession would be an important aspect of any player's game. Insofar as Lucas is very good at doing just that, his style and abilities are in sync with what Klopp wants. Adventurous passing, while at times necessary to create chances, isn't the exclusive way in which to do so and against packed defenses is usually pointless as we saw for most of this season. Intricate, technical build-up play is more useful in that situation and Lucas is in no way inferior to the two mentioned alternatives in that regard. Besides, in terms of assists this season compared to minutes played, Lucas has done very well, racking up about half as many as some of our forward players who played something like 4 times the minutes. You may not like him stylistically, but that's really no reason to ignore that he has any positive attributes as a footballer. Unless you're really just interested in slagging him off, of course...
     
  5. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    13,091
    And the Sturridge bit is what,I think accusing a player of not giving a shit about us is the biggest insult rather than saying a player is shit.
     
  6. ubermick

    ubermick Willing to drive Nikola to the airport. Admin

    Messages:
    9,450
    Likes Received:
    17,389
    95%? I'd say 100% do. And you're included in that 100%. You just won't admit it.

    You have absolutely ZERO problems in pointing out issues in other players, the mental deficiencies they have, and insult the ones you choose to. You just refuse to tolerate it on those you personally - and remember that word there, personally - prefer.

    So Sturridge, a top player and regular international (who is quite possibly going through or has just gone through some mental health issues at the moment, as well as physical ones) can be the subject of insults from you. But that's okay in your book, because your opinion matters more. When others point out issues in Lucas' game, you refer to them as lies, condemn them as haters, and... well, basically throw a big childish temper tantrum that I'd expect from my two year old daughter.

    Also, as a complete aside, you REALLY need to knock of the moderator conspiracy theory drivel you keep spouting as well. Because as I highlighted above, you've flung your fair share of shit at players in your time here, and haven't gotten banned either. Mind you, if you don't like the way the site is moderated, and don't like the way other fans on here behave, by all MEANS - you know where the door is, and am sure you'd do BRILLIANTLY at RAWK or RAOTL.

    End of story. Now back to discussing the (potential) transfer of Lucas.
     
  7. Jase

    Jase Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    4,240
    Leaving Cert Higher Maffs

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Sorry this is nonsense. You can't equate the way Lucas uses the ball to intricate technical build up play. Think you should watch his assists this season again too. Playing the ball safe to keep possession is hardly Klopp he of heavy metal football. Actually forcing the issue and winning the ball back quick if lost is what Klopp is all about. You need speed of play, quick through balls and even occasional crosses and runners/movement to break down teams that park the bus. Not players who play the ball safe 95% of the time. Lucas is useless when up against a team that parks the bus. He may as well not be on the pitch.
     
    Jase likes this.
  9. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,443
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    To be honest, your a bit of a girls blouse.

    Few months ago you demanded I delete a post about Lucas you 'deemed' to be unacceptable, and you pathetically asked for me to be banned, to which I repeatedly asked you to highlight the bit that offended you.

    You dodged the request and maintained I should be banned despite the fact that when challenged you couldn't highlight what was offensive, becuase you misread my post.
     
  10. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

    Messages:
    9,220
    Likes Received:
    6,562
    I dont throw shit at our players.:celebrating:
     
  11. prest

    prest Banned Users

    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    248
    You're just simply wrong. Klopp has never said anything about his style being "heavy metal", he only made an off the cuff remark from years ago that he's since said embarrasses him a little. On the other hand, he has said this season in a press conference that Liverpool are a possession-based side. The gegenpressing is a disequilibrating tactic, not a style of play. If you've watched any of our matches over the last 4 months you'll have seen something much more patient (patiently futile quite frequently) than anything one might describe as 'heavy metal'. In that style, Lucas is a good fit. Overall, Henderson and to a lesser extent Can are better fits simply because of their superior athleticism. Lucas can and does spread the ball around the pitch and plays passes that are nearly identical to those played by Wijnaldum, Matip and even Coutinho for the majority of any given possession. You're right that Lucas doesn't suit how we played at the beginning of the season but if you remember more than 1 or 2 matches played in that manner in 2017 I'd be surprised. We've been playing half-baked tiki-taka of sorts for much of the season. Nothing quick about any of it. Much of that was a result of opposition tactics but it was still an approach we adopted for more than 75% of minutes played this season. Charlie Adam is dynamic enough for it, even if he's not technically sound enough to be of any use. He sure can punt a ball upfield though.

    How many times this season did we break down a packed defense with long, direct passing? Twice? When we've beaten teams of that nature, it's mostly been through patient build -up play or set pieces. Matches against the top six aside, we played slow possession football this season.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
    Prolix likes this.
  12. Jase

    Jase Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    4,240
    don't make me look back through every post you've ever written... i'm serious man, i'll frickin do it!
     
  13. hugo the horrible

    hugo the horrible Ridiculously optimistic.

    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    And I just came in here thinking this was the Lucas thread,took a wrong turn somewhere,maybe later....
     
    legalalien, Livvy and redfanman like this.
  14. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    708
    I have pointed out the weaknesses Lucas have many many times. I don't care what opinions they post about him because it is just opinions. It isn't ok to post lies about a player, not in my book, maybe it is ok in yours, but not mine.

    I have not insulted Sturridge or any other of our players. In a few of his games this season he backed out of challenges. Everyone could see that. In a few games this season he just didn't give a shit by the look of it because he backed out of challenges and didn't track back, he didn't even try to get the ball back. He look totally uniterested. I wasn't the only one pointing that out. Carragher is one them.

    http://www.skysports.com/football/n...player-now-to-when-he-first-came-to-liverpool

    So if I inulted him then Carra is doing the same.

    It isn't a lie to say that he didn't tracked back, it isn't a lie to say that he backed out of challengers. It isn't a lie that he looked totally uninterested.

    Why do you think Klopp played Origi and even a couple of times Woodburn instead of him? Do you think it is because he think that they are better players or that Sturridge needed to know that if you don't give 100% out there then you will be benched. He was clearly fit to play or else he wouldn't been on the bench in those games.

    Sturridge worked much harder in the last couple of games. Maybe he finally understood the message. Work your socks off or be benched.
     
  15. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

    Messages:
    3,359
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Oh my god. Is that why Lucas is in the bench all the time now a days. Coz he doesn't give his 100%. Lucas that lazy guy.
     
    Scott Jones and lfc.eddie like this.
  16. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Nobody is saying you aren't allowed an opinion regarding other players. They are saying that if you are so scathing and insulting over your expression of your opinion on other players you can't then come in here complaining about people doing the same about Lucas just because you disagree with their opinion. It can't be OK, fair game, open season on what you and others say about other players but then a separate, more stringent, set of rules regarding what people are allowed to say about Lucas. It's hypocritical of you to moan about someone saying Lucas is shit or played like shit if you're in other threads saying the same about other players. I'll leave the arguing over your opinions on other players in the relevant threads.
     
  17. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    All about opinions and I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this. Personally wouldn't use the second half of the season when we stumbled to the end and the wheels came off our season as proof of a preference. If you're right then we and Klopp are in trouble and he won't end up lasting much longer. My opinion is he wants the football from the first half of the season. Without Henderson and Mane for most of the second half we didn't see it much. Few games when Can played the deep role and we had Mane back. We never struggled as much against park the bus teams when we had Henderson/Can in the deeper role and Mane offering pace. Intelligent creative passing, movement, speed of play is how you break down park the bus teams (I never said long balls). Lucas does not offer this which is why a lot of our stablemates have included him in the team. Nearly all of our stalemates have been when Mane has been missing.
     
    redfanman likes this.
  18. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

    Messages:
    41,009
    Likes Received:
    21,806
    Just because Carragher is a former player, does not make him God. He does get it wrong and quite a bit too. He thinks Alex Curbishley is a great manager, he backs the hiring of Hodgson and also the firing of Rafa Benitez. Just because people are criticising Lucas and you don't agree with their assessment of the player does not make it untrue or spreading falsehood. Just keep that in mind.
     
  19. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,729
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Also bearing in mind Carragher is an absolute throw back to an earlier age. Not many players can put their bodies through what he was prepared to. Carragher was a rough and ready, hard arsed, physical defender. There was very little pace to his game and zero flair. To achieve flair and pace you just simply can't put your body through what Carragher thinks is quite reasonable to do so.
     
    Irishanfield, lfc.eddie and redfanman like this.
  20. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

    Messages:
    6,924
    Likes Received:
    4,820
    OK. The fighting seems to have died down. Maybe it's safe to come out now.

    It's a pity Lucas isn't a little bit older and could therefore slot into a coaching role at the club. I'm sure he would jump at the opportunity. But he is only 30 and probably thinks he still has a few years left before retiring. Although, as seems incapable of playing several games on the trot for us, what does he think he'll be doing at Galatasaray or wherever?

    I have a feeling Klopp will offer him a way of staying as an LFC player until he can retire and then move into a coaching role. Personally, I'd prefer Lucas as a future LFC manager rather than Gerrard. I just don't see Gerrard having the necessary man-management and communication skills.
     
    Irishanfield and redfanman like this.
  21. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,443
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    Why are we in a rush to give away coaching roles to people without the requisite qualifications and experience?

    Gerrard, I can understand, but Lucas, for whatever potential he may have, you don't get points nor inflated transfer fees for 'grooming' coaches.
     
  22. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

    Messages:
    9,220
    Likes Received:
    6,562
    I thought Lucas was already taking his badges? His involvement last season with the youngsters in the FA cup indicates some confidence by the club that he has potential in that area, so i wouldnt have a problem with him being given some sort of starters role in the coaching set up and see how he progresses.
     
    legalalien likes this.
  23. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,443
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    But shouldn't he be doing the 'experience' gig elsewhere?

    We are one of the richest clubs in the world, not a coach farm.
     
    The Elusive 19th and lfc.eddie like this.
  24. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

    Messages:
    41,009
    Likes Received:
    21,806
    I am not sure which FA Cup involvement and with which youngsters you are talking about here though. Did he coached a youth FA Cup side or play a part in the youth FA Cup team? I really don't remember reading it anywhere.

    As for coaching role, I am more inclined to give the just retired Alonso a call to play a part in the coaching setup than Lucas. Gerrard is a sentimental choice, and if you asked me, I would prefer Alonso to Gerrard purely from experience view point.

    Most players turned coaches relied a lot on the coach and managers they worked with in their career as a player. Most learn tactical ideas and training regiment from these coaches and then form their own as they go along. Lucas had very few years under Rafa and went downhill when coaches is concerned till now. Gerrard had worked with managers like Rafa, Houllier, Sven and Capello. If we take that into consideration, I don't think shoehorning Lucas into the mix for a role in coaching would serves any great purpose for the club other than sentimental.
     
    The Elusive 19th likes this.
  25. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

    Messages:
    6,924
    Likes Received:
    4,820
    Being a "coach farm" didn't hurt much in the past. I'm sure a loyal club servant like Lucas would love to be the new Ronnie Moran, if not the next Bill or Bob.
     
  26. Libero

    Libero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,080
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Yeh imagine if Lucas was a coach here, the fan base would implode.
     
  27. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

    Messages:
    9,220
    Likes Received:
    6,562
    Who said anything about shoehorning? as i said, i wouldnt have a problem with him getting a starting role in the coaching set up letting him see if he had the right abilities. Cant see why we wouldnt have the capacity to do that and bring in experienced coaches when needed too.

    as for the FA up it was Klopps first one, when we were away to exeter? The side was packed with kids and only two or three senior players going.
     
    legalalien and Scott Jones like this.
  28. STE123

    STE123 Lurker

    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    134
    Can you imagine his post match interviews

    [​IMG]
     
    redfanman, Scott Jones and lfc.eddie like this.
  29. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

    Messages:
    41,009
    Likes Received:
    21,806
    I really don't recall him taking the coaching role for those bunch of kids during Klopp's first season mate. If it means playing him with a bunch of kids so that he could guide them, then I also recall Benteke being one of the senior boys. I don't think we could suggest Benteke playing a part in coaching the kids in that FA Cup match.

    I just don't think we should keep hoping and harping on him sticking around and giving him a coaching role. Like @redbj said, unless we can sell our young coaches to make some money for the club, there is no need to turn us into a coaching school for former players.

    It is very different though. Unless we are suggesting that Klopp replaced his backroom staff with the likes of Gerrard and Lucas, I don't see how it would improve us if they are not in the capacity of working with the manager in tactical part of the game. If we are suggesting slotting him and Gerrard into the mix with Ljinders, Buvac and Krawietz, then I think it might become a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

    Let him go, let him experience other league. Learn new trades. If he is up for it, he will return and coach the club. Don't let the Shankly days fool us. Shankly personally got a hand on grooming the likes of Paisley and it goes on with others. Till there is room for these boys, I don't think we should even hope the club would put such structure in place.
     
    Anfield rd Dreamer likes this.
  30. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

    Messages:
    6,924
    Likes Received:
    4,820
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.