Munich Chants

howhardgerrard

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All,

This weekend we entertain United at home. Following on from the Suarez - Evra incident and then the non-handshake last season, the Hillsborough revelations and the chants at Old Trafford on Saturday the media are going to be on crowd watch like never before. Old red nose has even spoken about the subject to try and diffuse the issue, something which for the first time ever I praised him for.

It has been a historic week for The Hillsborough families and Liverpool FC in general and we have received a huge wave of public support with amazing scenes around England with clubs playing YNWA before kick off.

The point of this thread is to raise my concerns all this could disappear on Sunday if a few people in the crowd either instigate or retaliate with chants about Munich. For many years the families and our fans have fought a campaign for justice with great dignity, we need to ensure that this dignity is understood and adhered to by ALL Liverpool fans on Sunday.

Simple question - What can we do to hopefully stop any idiots on Sunday or do you believe it is possible to show disgust towards anyone that does?
 

Mascot88

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I sadly think it's inevitable that a few twats will be out with the disgusting Munich song. Ferguson - and it's not possible for a manager to be more respected by his clubs fans - basically appealled for them to stop, and a few still went for it.

Match going fans need to tell them the STFU. But apart from that I don't think you can really fight idiocy.
 

1dragon

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Simple question - What can we do to hopefully stop any idiots on Sunday or do you believe it is possible to show disgust towards anyone that does?
Idiots exist everywhere so it will be impossible to stop them from doing what they want. However, it would be good if match going fans can bring along some dough or those old rags and gag the idiots up as soon as they start chanting. ;)
 

Chewbazza

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It will be awful if (when) the retaliation begins. Not only is it distasteful anyway but in the cuurent climate, the media will be hovering and waiting to jump on any form of abuse that isn't about football.

Just hope if (when) it does happen, our own (Rodgers/FSG) are as quick to condemn it as Man U seem to have been.
 

SoueysTash

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I think the tone of the day will be based around the handshakes personally. I bet BR has told Suarez that he's not allowed to dodge the handshake no matter what...
 

ILLOK

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Munich won't get started at Anfield, there will probably be the odd idiots scattered around trying to, but it won't be sung en masse.

Justice for the 96 will be a more likely and appropriate retaliation.
 

ChicagoRed

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I think the tone of the day will be based around the handshakes personally. I bet BR has told Suarez that he's not allowed to dodge the handshake no matter what...
Suarez shouldn't have to do anything he dosen't want to do and it was Evra who dodged the handshake in the first place. With Man U walking across the line as long as Suarez's hand is out, it will be up to Evra. He won't be able to play any tricks this time.
 

Toynster

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[sup]An old book once said " As you sow, so shall you reap" sounds a bit deep but true![/sup]
 

LeoT

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Just don't chant it. Sing JFT96 instead.
Please just join with the people around to tell a Steward and demand they do somthing about the idiot.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I say this because I don't want us to make the same kind of mistakes we did last season, there is WAY TOO MUCH AT STAKE.

We should NOT engage with the individuals directly because a scuffle in the crowd would be all of the Sunday Press' dreams come true.
That would lead to this headline on Sunday morning:
"Liverpool holligans scuffled withg each other as peaceful United fans looked on in amazement"

If we sit there proudly trying to outsing the nutter by singing out "You'll never walk alone" the headlines on Sunday morning would unfortunately read somthing like this:
"A nutter in the Liverpool crowd sang Munich songs in poor tast, and was joined by other Liverpool fans who just sang 'You'll never walk alone' with him"

I would rather see the press report:
"A nutter in the Liverpool crowd was ejected from the stadiun after being reported by other Liverpool fans for singing Munich songs in poor tast"

Our fans should deffinetely be seen to call upon and then engage with authority to root out these low-lives.
 

ILLOK

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I don't see the point in this thread at all honestly.

Like I said before, the majority won't mention Munich, but in a crowd of 40,000, it's inevitable that you'll get some people who will.

You can't change that, no matter how much you try.
 

What a RUSH

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Like many who have mentioned already, it is impossible to stop idiocy and the random 1 or 2 who will retaliate.

All we can as fans do is show these individuals that we as a collective will not tolerate their behaviour in the stadium and report the person to your nearest steward.
 

LeoT

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I don't see the point in this thread at all honestly.

Like I said before, the majority won't mention Munich, but in a crowd of 40,000, it's inevitable that you'll get some people who will.

You can't change that, no matter how much you try.
I do see the point of this thread.

We plan how us decent folk are to respond if a low-life, a nutter, or a druinken idiot were to sing somthing offensive "on our behalf".

We must engage with the Stewards and not try to do somthing "emotional" (i.e. singing You'll never walk alone).
We (the Fans, Players, management and owners) made so many errors of judgement last season and we should be fore armed this season.

As fans we MUST be seen to be reporting nutters to the authorities, anything else will land this good club in a steaming pile of brown sticky stuff.
 

ILLOK

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Well I wouldn't be engaging with the stewards, I'd just tell them to shut the fuck up, as I've done before. People soon quieten down when numerous people around them call them out over it.
 

howhardgerrard

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Well I wouldn't be engaging with the stewards, I'd just tell them to shut the fuck up, as I've done before. People soon quieten down when numerous people around them call them out over it.
IMO these people need to be kicked out rather than just told to shut the fuck up but this needs the support of everyone. It takes a lot of guts for one person to stand up and say no but if everyone does it together then things can be done.


That is the point of the thread.
 

Paddy Mickey Joe

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Great article on this in the Irish examiner today.


Bigots keeping Thatcher’s flame alive

By Ken Early
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2012
Margaret Thatcher never paid much attention to football, but last week football was remembering her.
The Hillsborough Independent Panel's report confirmed that the fatal crush was more than just a disaster. The outline of the story becomes sharper in its historical context. In the early- to mid-1980s the Thatcher government forced through a series of brutal economic reforms that were fiercely resisted by unionised workers. In what at times amounted to a civil war, the police were the government's front-line troops. A few years later, when the police scrambled to escape the blame for the Hillsborough disaster, the government looked the other way.

In his speech to the Commons on Wednesday, David Cameron insisted the Thatcher government was not complicit in the cover-up and had wanted some leading police officers to resign. Yet even Cameron admitted they could have done more to force the police to admit the truth. The quid pro quo does not need to have been explicit for people to draw their own conclusions as to what really went down in South Yorkshire.

In the Premier League, it was one of those weekends when there seemed to be more happening off the field than on. At Loftus Road, the handshakes were more absorbing than the game. At Old Trafford, Manchester United fans who had been asked by Sir Alex Ferguson not to sing about Hillsborough could be heard chanting "always the victim, it's never your fault".

The Manchester United Supporters' Trust swiftly issued a release saying "we ... condemn any chants relating to Hillsborough or indeed any other human tragedy. We did hear the usual anti-Liverpool chants at the match today but we're pleased to say, despite some reports to the contrary, there was nothing that was specifically referencing Hillsborough."

Certainly "always the victim, it's never your fault" is not as unambiguous as "you killed your own fans", which has also been sung by opposing fans at Liverpool matches. You could even make a tenuous argument that the chant is merely meant to satirise the absurd, finger-pointing frenzy with which Liverpool defended Luis Suarez. But it's clear that "always the victim" implies a pattern of behaviour, and if so, the chant is referring to something more than just Suarez.

In truth, it's a pithier version of Boris Johnson's famous Spectator article from 2004, which explained that "a combination of economic misfortune... and an excessive predilection for welfarism has created a deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status ... they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance about the rest of society."

The clinching example in Johnson's argument was Liverpool's failure to acknowledge, "even to this day", that drunk fans mindlessly fighting to get into the ground had contributed to the crush at Hillsborough. Always the victims, never their fault.

Shortly after that article was published Johnson visited Liverpool to apologise; he repeated those apologies last week. The United fans are at Anfield next Sunday; no apologies are expected.

Later on Saturday, at the Stadium of Light, Liverpool fans belted out a chorus of "we'll all be having a party when Maggie Thatcher dies." Looking at the faces on the YouTube clip it was plain that many of those singing were not old enough to remember a time when Thatcher was in power.

George Orwell disliked football nearly as much as Thatcher did, famously (and misguidedly) writing that "sport is an unfailing source of ill-will... war minus the shooting" Watching these young Liverpool fans gloat over Thatcher's imminent death, you were reminded of another Orwell essay, written just after the end of the war in Europe, called "Revenge Is Sour".

Orwell watched a young Jewish officer torment a captured SS general who, though guilty of terrible crimes, cut such a degraded figure as to be merely pathetic: "He did not look brutal or in any way frightening: merely neurotic and, in a low way, intellectual... the Nazi torturer of one's imagination, the monstrous figure against whom one had struggled for so many years, dwindled to this pitiful wretch, whose obvious need was not for punishment, but for some kind of psychological treatment."

The scene brought home to Orwell that "...the whole idea of revenge and punishment is a childish daydream. Properly speaking, there is no such thing as revenge. Revenge is an act which you want to commit when you are powerless and because you are powerless: as soon as the sense of impotence is removed, the desire evaporates also. Who would not have jumped for joy, in 1940, at the thought of seeing SS officers kicked and humiliated? But when the thing becomes possible, it is merely pathetic and disgusting. It is said that when Mussolini's corpse was exhibited in public, an old woman drew a revolver and fired five shots into it, exclaiming, 'Those are for my five sons!' ... I wonder how much satisfaction she got out of those five shots, which, doubtless, she had dreamed years earlier of firing. The condition of her being able to get close enough to Mussolini to shoot at him was that he should be a corpse."

Margaret Thatcher is 86 years old and has for some years suffered from Alzheimer's disease. The Iron Lady who broke the unions and claimed there was no such thing as society is already gone. All that is left is a frail old woman who remembers as little about the 1980s as the Liverpool fans who weren't yet born when she lived at Downing Street.

Yet maybe Thatcherism left a permanent imprint on the society its architect claimed did not exist. In 1977, Manchester United beat Liverpool in the FA Cup final, thwarting their hopes of completing the treble their own club went on to claim in 1999. Were such a thing to happen today it would be the occasion for an orgy of gloating that would be audible from space. Instead, the United fans chanted "Liverpool, Liverpool" as the defeated side passed on their lap of honour, wishing them well for the European Cup final in Rome.

Now, in place of that solidarity, the fans bait each other with chants that mock the deaths at Munich and Hillsborough, some of the worst disasters to have taken place in English football history. People who have almost everything else in common stand on opposite sides of the ground hurling abuse about tragedies many of them cannot even remember. Most of them probably couldn't explain why they are doing it, but the hatred is real.

If Thatcherism was always on some level about dividing the working class so the rich could get richer in peace, the fans who sing these songs are the guardians of Thatcher's flame.


http://www.irishexam...gDWglw4.twitter
 

gb1986

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I absolutely hate the rivalries in football, what annoys me most is how often fans refer to other fans as 'scum' just because of geography basically.

I've no problem whatsoever with Manchester or Manchester United fans at all, infact i'm good friends with many. What i do have a problem with is a few individuals who like to hurt people.

Some people are more interested in the rivalry than the football, and that's just sad.

I'd love one day for both our sets of supporters to show respect for each other in a big way at a match one day. If anyone doesn't think this rivalry has gone too far they need their heads checked. Or maybe i'm just a hippie.

I hope both sets of fans do themselves proud at the weekend.
 

Bambii

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Suarez shouldn't have to do anything he dosen't want to do and it was Evra who dodged the handshake in the first place. With Man U walking across the line as long as Suarez's hand is out, it will be up to Evra. He won't be able to play any tricks this time.
Won't it be exactly the same?
They swapped the handshake routine round at Old trafford
 

ChicagoRed

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Won't it be exactly the same?
They swapped the handshake routine round at Old trafford
Oh ya, completely forgot they swapped the routine for some reason. Home teams always walks the line and 'welcomes' the road side.
 

SoueysTash

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Suarez shouldn't have to do anything he dosen't want to do and it was Evra who dodged the handshake in the first place. With Man U walking across the line as long as Suarez's hand is out, it will be up to Evra. He won't be able to play any tricks this time.
Youtube remembers it better than you...and if I were manager I'd be telling Suarez to man up and move on. Pointless gesture, not shaking someones hand...Anyway, that will set the tone imo, if the players act like children then why should the fans behave any differently?
 

AnfieldCat

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I'm a little nervous about this actually especially after some of their vile fans chanted at the weekend,really hope theres no reasons to point fingers at any of our fans after the game. Also wish the ridiculous pre-match handshakes didn't have to exist but I have a feeling Evra might not play anyway, they might go with that Buttner. Don't care how childish it sounds I hate the thought of Luis having to shake Evras hand.
 

gasband

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If anyone has any reason to let rivalry get in the way of humanity, Everton and Liverpool has the most reason but even Everton can put that aside so Suarez has no reason not to put his rivalry with Evra aside.
 

nzkop1te

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have never understood it and never will understand such chants. it's disgusting, but sadly there are people in society who do such thing.
 

RichLFC

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Could do with jacking the pre match handshake up Gordon Taylor's arse. If anythings likely to promote a bad atmosphere leading to more stupid chanting [or worse] it could be that. I think Suarez may have been told you have to try to shake Evras hand or you wont start, but wouldnt put it past Evra to start pratting about. I hope Ferguson leaves him out
 

darren kelly

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The cops should arrest anybody from either team making these chants.
I would bring Suarez on as a 2nd half sub so he does not have to shake hands.Why does Anton Ferdinand not get abuse for not shaking Terry's hand and Park did not shake it either?How come they do not have to shake hands and Suarez does.How come Wayne Bridge does not have to shake Terry's hand?
Hope we beat them that would make my day.
 

Dane

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I don't see the point in this thread at all honestly.

Like I said before, the majority won't mention Munich, but in a crowd of 40,000, it's inevitable that you'll get some people who will.

You can't change that, no matter how much you try.
Agreed.
The odd 'Munich' shout gets heard from the odd tit, but I've never actually heard it sung even by small pockets of fans, not on the Kop anyway.

Regarding last weeks chants at Old Toilet, thankfully we're not like mancs and bitters, we dont sing about other teams unless we're playing them, those shower of cunts sing about us regularly, they're obsessed.
 

darren kelly

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They do seem obsessed.Singing about us and they are playing another team.Weird
I do not like Sky and their build up to this fixture they are always on Ferguson's side with Gary Neville and his boring commentary.
 

AnfieldCat

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The cops should arrest anybody from either team making these chants.
I would bring Suarez on as a 2nd half sub so he does not have to shake hands.Why does Anton Ferdinand not get abuse for not shaking Terry's hand and Park did not shake it either?How come they do not have to shake hands and Suarez does.How come Wayne Bridge does not have to shake Terry's hand?
Hope we beat them that would make my day.
I would never leave out our best player against them just to avoid some handshake drama. Suarez can do what he wants in regards to that in my mind, he is still feeling the falllout from Evras lies so if he doesn't want to shake hands with that tit I certainly won't be slagging him for it, I have a feeling he will shake his hand though if Evra starts, best case scenario is that Fergie goes with that new sigining Buttner instead and the drama is avoided.

I hope we stuff them, what a way to turn our season around!
 

mpoletti

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I really hope Liverpool fans take the higher road regarding any chants about human disasters and loss of lives. It will go on, but they are not needed and it simply needs to stop.