Nabil Fekir (AM/ST) Lyon

What will Nabil be leaning on?

  • The executive wall. With the Shankly quote. In a suit.

  • A giant pile of knee scans

  • Aulas' ego

  • A crutch or walking stick

  • A television playing the leaked video of himself

  • The contract table of course

  • Fabinho, Naby, Shaqiri, and Alisson arranged in a pile

  • His World Cup medal

  • A gibbering Dejan Lovren, looking sullenly at said World Cup medal

  • Michael Edwards' laptop, which has gained sentience and rules us all

  • Leans are so 2017 - it's all about the posed screaming and badge grabbing

  • Red wall, looking like a moody, hard bastard.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Kopstar

★★★★★
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
11,509
It's 100% our decision if we want to call him back and it's be to play him if we decide to according to Klopp;

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/330211-jurgen-klopp-liverpool-transfers-harry-wilson
Interesting. The PL Handbook says you need special approval to get a player registered if you bring them back early from a season long loan,but it doesnt say what the requirements are. Presumably we have determined we would get it in this case.
It's not just the PL Handbook that Limiescouse refers to (U.3 states that If a loan of a Player (whether by Temporary Transfer or otherwise) is cancelled by mutual consent, the Player shall not play for the Club to which he is returning unless the League has confirmed to that Club that the Player is eligible to play for it) but also the FA Handbook which states,

(6.6.3)

[...]

A Player on Long Term Loan may not be recalled, except for a goalkeeper or where the Player is to be transferred permanently by the Club (or club) holding his registered contract. A Player other than a goalkeeper so recalled cannot be permitted to play for the Club (or club) holding his registration after such recall until the end of the Playing Season. Players so recalled can only be replaced by a further Long Term Loan with permission from the Company. Long Term Loan Transfers will not count against the number of Short Term Loan Transfers.

These provisions, taken together, has generally been interpreted to mean that if you recall a player on a season long loan (such as Wilson) you cannot play him and can only loan him out again for the rest of that playing season. Now, as Limiescouse says, there could be exceptions to that granted by the Premier League board but I do not know what those might be other than the usual ones that apply with regards to emergency cover for an unforeseeable shortage of goalkeepers.

It's a fairly new set of restrictions though so it may be that the Clubs have already received indications from the Premier League that it is prepared to override the FA Standardised Rules in this regard but I would be somewhat surprised if that was the case.
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,188
He doesn't have to replace anyone. He will start enough games rotating with our other attackers.
I am not so sure to be honest.

I think it's possible that we will sign him (look at Klopp's record) but that doesn't mean that the player will start games in rotation, or at all.
I think if we do sign him, he will be confined to the bench - this season

Having said that I don't think we will sign him
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
20,195
I think it's possible that we will sign him (look at Klopp's record)
At this point Klopp’s record points to him not going in for players he has previously been interested in, more than it does making another move.

On one hand you have Van Dijk. On the other you have Chilwell, Brandt, Draxler, Pulisic, Zielinski and quite a few others I can’t recall of the top of my head.
 

Ron Swanson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
287
Jurgen has showed he introduces new players into the team when he feels they are ready (with the exception of Alisson), Robbo,Keita,Fabinho where introduced in parts till Jurgen felt they were fully ready and it has shown to be a success look at Robbo who at this moment is the one of the best LB in Europe. Fabinho has shown to be the missing CDM we haven't had since Masch and we all know it's only a matter of time before Naby shows the league what we all know what he is made of as we have already seen glimpses. If we get him can only see Jurgen doing the same with Fekir and introduce him sparingly until he is ready.
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
1,408
In a recent interview, Jurgen said something has to change “significantly” for us to buy in this window. the media, of course, generally interpreted that as Jurgen is open to buying. Sure he is, but the ise of “significant” makes me think it’s more unlikely than likely.
Could also mean that the right player has to be available for Liverpool to buy.
 

John inge Blomhaug

New Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
3
I dont understand why we need another 'up there', we got double and even triple backups. We received criticism earlier in the season that we didnt score as much as the previous season, look at december. 18 scored and two conceded. Insane numbers. We can be softened with an injury or two, but Fekir doesnt come to mind as a player you keep on the bench, waiting for his shot.
 

JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
675
Has there been a single reliable rumor linking us with Fekir since the transfer talks broke down last summer?
 

Speckydodge

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
2,509
What has changed with the status of Fekir's knee that encourages some on here to think we should go back in for him?
Not the status of his knee, the status of his value.
Only 18 months on his contract, this time next year he could sign for someone for free, he's refusing to sign the new contract. All this makes Aulas desperate to sell as he's a pure business man and it would kill him to not get a fee for such a talented player. So for 50m our club may have said that knee wasn't worth the risk but at 25m or 30m they might just think the risk was worth it.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
388
Not the status of his knee, the status of his value.
Only 18 months on his contract, this time next year he could sign for someone for free, he's refusing to sign the new contract. All this makes Aulas desperate to sell as he's a pure business man and it would kill him to not get a fee for such a talented player. So for 50m our club may have said that knee wasn't worth the risk but at 25m or 30m they might just think the risk was worth it.
I really think you are being very optimistic about this. Pulisic had 18 months left and... £58m.

The real issue with Fékir is not money, it's something clinical. There's nothing pointing towards an interest from Liverpool, it's just fans wanting to have him. Money was never a problem in the first place.

It not saying I don't think he is great, I just don't believe we have any interest anymore because it doesn't make sense trying someone with a knee problem when you have money and all the rest of the world to look for another player.

I can give you a perfect player who's as good as Fékir in the french league: Thauvin. He is more trustworthy when it comes to his knee and he would probably cost the same. Could play in the right wing, AM, maybe even as a striker, who knows. He is an amazing player producing the same as Fékir in a worse team.

If we think a little bit more, there are many players as good as Fékir (maybe even better ones) that would cost the same but with no dodge knee.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
20,195
I really think you are being very optimistic about this. Pulisic had 18 months left and... £58m.

The real issue with Fékir is not money, it's something clinical. There's nothing pointing towards an interest from Liverpool, it's just fans wanting to have him. Money was never a problem in the first place.

It not saying I don't think he is great, I just don't believe we have any interest anymore because it doesn't make sense trying someone with a knee problem when you have money and all the rest of the world to look for another player.

I can give you a perfect player who's as good as Fékir in the french league: Thauvin. He is more trustworthy when it comes to his knee and he would probably cost the same. Could play in the right wing, AM, maybe even as a striker, who knows. He is an amazing player producing the same as Fékir in a worse team.

If we think a little bit more, there are many players as good as Fékir (maybe even better ones) that would cost the same but with no dodge knee.
Whenever a player fails a medical, the issue is always going to be the increased cost of insuring the player. A known medical condition could lower the price, but it would raise the insurance cost.
 
C

Caradoc

Guest
Klopp identified Fekir for a specific role ...... of that I have no doubt. My impression was that he felt that Fekir could perform a similar role to Bobby but do it a bit differently, providing him with both depth and options.

What makes Bobby so valuable apart from what he actually does is that there aren’t that many players who can do what he does for us to the same level.

At the right price, I think we could still be interested. One of the things a player like Fekir needs with an injury like his is rest between matches and from matches. We could provide him with that. But it doesn’t matter what I think. Klopp and Edwards make those decisions.
 
C

Caradoc

Guest
Whenever a player fails a medical, the issue is always going to be the increased cost of insuring the player. A known medical condition could lower the price, but it would raise the insurance cost.


But did Fekir fail the medical?

What I would like to know is how Liverpool will have been affected by the injuries to Ings, Gomez and Ox in terms of insuring these players following their respective knee injuries.

Also, are we talking about a lump sum to pay off a player’s remaining contract or cover for a player’s salary and costs during recovery and/or over the remainder of his contract?

I found the attached which gives sime information about player insurance payments in the EPL during 2016/17 ......

https://www.jltspecialty.com/media-centre/press-release/2017/june/injury-costs-for-premier-league-clubs


  • Manchester City paid out on average £611,204 for each injury incurred – the highest in the Premier League

  • Sunderland sustained 58 injuries, with at least three players unavailable for every match day of the 2016/17 season

  • Younger players are the most injury prone with the under 21s and 21-25s suffering from the most severe injuries with 45 days and 43 days out respectively

JLT Specialty (JLT), the specialist insurance broker and risk consultant, has calculated that Premier League clubs paid out £177 million to injured players during the 2016/17 season, an increase of 12% on last year. With 20 Premier League clubs taking part in 524 official matches, JLT found that there were 713 injuries incurred in total over the course of the season.

Despite having one of the lowest total number of injury counts (30) throughout the season, Manchester City incurred the highest cost £18.3 million paying out over £0.5 million more to their injured players than any other club. In contrast, AFC Bournemouth sustained 37 injuries, which cost the club £3.2 million. This meant that the average injury cost to Bournemouth was nearly £520,000 lower than Manchester City, who paid out £611,204 on average for each player injured.

One reason for the notable difference is that City players command higher salaries than most other clubs, which inflates the cost of injuries. This effect may have been exacerbated by some old-fashioned bad luck. The club saw a number of its biggest players injured at various stages of the season, including Sergio Agüero, Raheem Sterling, Leroy Sané, Bacary Sagna, Gabriel Jesus – not to mention club captain Vincent Kompany, who missed 255 days.

Sunderland suffered an unusually high streak of injuries during the season, more so than any other club with 58 injuries. This, combined with the highest average number of players unavailable for a given match, arguably contributed to the Club’s poor season, which ultimately led to their relegation.

While several factors impact team performance, JLT’s report found a very strong correlation between final table position and number of unavailable players across the season. The average number of unavailable players each match day for the Premier League champions, Chelsea, was 1.66, whereas Sunderland was 7.37. Sunderland had at least three players unavailable for every match day of the season, with this number reaching more than 10 at times.


Fig. 1. Injury cost by team*

The callowness of youth


Contrary to expectation, JLT’s study reveals that younger players are the most prone to severe injuries. And not just this season. Analysis of all injuries since 2011 shows that it’s the under 21s and 21-25s who suffer the most severe injuries, with an average of 45 days and 43 days out per season respectively.

This is due to a combination of factors. Younger players tend to be less experienced, and often more fearless, so are liable to play more recklessly. What’s more, the youngest players are sometimes still physically developing as they begin competing at the highest level. This makes them more susceptible to injury under the intense physical demands of being a professional footballer.


In a dangerous position

In terms of the frequency of injuries, defenders picked up more injuries when compared to any other position; with a defender having a 6.3% chance of getting injured in a match, closely followed by forwards who stand a 5.6% chance.
*All figures cited sourced from Sporting Intelligence (see methodology for further details)


Interestingly, goalkeepers are suffering much more severe injuries. Their average injury lasts some 46 days, which is 10 days longer than other position. There are several possible reasons for this. Firstly, with an average age of 31, goalkeepers are older than their outfield counterparts. Age influences speed of recovery. Secondly, their position demands a high degree of collisions and explosive physical exertion such as challenging in the air for crosses and corners, resulting in falls from heights, dives to make saves, and throwing themselves at onrushing opponents.


Sidelined with back and knee injuries

The most severe injuries during the season were injuries to the knee and back. On average, each of these injuries left a player out of action for 70 and 44 days respectively. Not only were knee injuries the most severe, taking double the length of time the average hamstring injury took to recover, but they were also the costliest, equating to almost £50m over the season. The most common injury last season was the hamstring, accounting for 18% of the 713 injuries.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
7,576
If Fekir comes in he’ll want to start. Whose he replacing?
I am sure Robertson, fabinho and others wanted to start when they came but Klopp is the man who decided how it played out. No worries there.
However as it stands I would say an immediate replacement for Kieta.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1,204
I think this one is dead as a dodo.
Its not happening - not this season anyway.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
388
Whenever a player fails a medical, the issue is always going to be the increased cost of insuring the player. A known medical condition could lower the price, but it would raise the insurance cost.
I could agree with you if the medical issue was something "simple", but I think it's something prohibitive from LFC's point of view. People like Pearce and Dom King are being very clear about Fékir not being a LFC target anymore. And it makes sense, imo.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,873
I could agree with you if the medical issue was something "simple", but I think it's something prohibitive from LFC's point of view. People like Pearce and Dom King are being very clear about Fékir not being a LFC target anymore. And it makes sense, imo.
I think you misunderstand him. He is saying that a reduction in his fee doesn't necessarily make him any more attractive an option because it will have to be balanced by higher cost of insurance.
 

nobluff

Official TIA Match Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
1,113
If he was going to sign it would have been as soon as the window was opened. This is not going to happen based on pure logic.
 

Scott Jones

Blunt
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
14,486
My thinking is we'll know fuck all and neither will the media as we're keeping our cards extremely close to our chests,no one else seems to sniffing so maybe there's something in that.
 



JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
675
There are a few things that make me wonder whether we have gone back in for Fekir.

1. We've expressed interest in acquiring an AM in the past. That's clearly still a goal.
2. We went in for Fekir and had a deal done before something scuttled it.
3. Fekir refuses to sign a new contract with Lyon.
4. Fekir would be cheaper on a summer move, with only 12 months left on his deal. They could sell him to us and we loan him back to Lyon until the end of the season.
5. Credible sources have connected us with Rabiot, Pulisic, and Ramsey. All of them are headed elsewhere despite that interest.
6. Chelsea was rumored to have interest in Fekir, which probably evaporated after the Pulisic signing.
7. He's been left out of the matchday squad even though he's healthy.

Those could all be coincidences and Klopp is fine with the current squad. But the circumstances are there for a rekindling of our interest.
 

Drubas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
1,064
That is precisely what it means to fail a medical.

As for the type of graft, there was a lot of nonsense written about it at the time. There are pros and cons of each type of procedure, which is why there are several different approaches. None is universally and undeniably better than the other and it is not reasonable to think we backed away because of the type of graft.
If you ignore the overwhelming empiric data to support that one of the two methods have a much higher success rate - then it doesn't matter.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1,204
Lfc fans on Twitter are like... - Fekir left out of Lyons squad so we’re signing him and I’ve seen the Black Merc at Melwood

Reality....Company give bloke a day off
 

scouseheadross

Septical
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
3,398
Jurgen has showed he introduces new players into the team when he feels they are ready (with the exception of Alisson), Robbo,Keita,Fabinho where introduced in parts till Jurgen felt they were fully ready and it has shown to be a success look at Robbo who at this moment is the one of the best LB in Europe. Fabinho has shown to be the missing CDM we haven't had since Masch and we all know it's only a matter of time before Naby shows the league what we all know what he is made of as we have already seen glimpses. If we get him can only see Jurgen doing the same with Fekir and introduce him sparingly until he is ready.
This is why imo any additions seem unlikely in Jan. Never say never and there might be a deal too good to miss but Kloppo typically gives newcomers ages to settle. He prefers a proper preseason so they fully understand the system and so I'm not sure any new signing would have much impact on this season.

Would it be worth risking the team dynamic he values so highly, mid season, when we're on a roll?

And why fix it if it isn't broken? One loss in the league - away to the current champions. So why reinforce? The bench looks strong and a few players - eg: Lallana and Sturridge - aren't even getting a look in.

Injuries might change all that but recalling Wilson seems viable - I believe Klopp and his team of professionals more than someone random on the internet who professes to understand the rules better.

PS: as for Fekir himself, I've yet to be given any examples of renegotiating after failing a medical, other than John Carew a decade ago!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.