Navigating the next 7 matches - rotation options.

Dane

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#31
No, we're discussing the management of the next 7 games, which are the most important as they're up next.

It's a sensible discussion about how to use the squad in this period.

Three matches against top 6 sides, two important CL matches, a domestic cup and a home PL match that we also need to win.
One game at a time.
I'll trust in Klopp to do it his way thanks.
 

YeGra

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#32
Some things to note:

1. Southampton may be the easier out of all of them. But it is easily a game where we can drop points, especially due to fatigue. After Spurs and PSG, these type of games can have 0-0 all over them.
2. Chelsea in the LC is the game to take for granted the most. The reality is we didn't go into this season looking to rebuff our 2012 LC winner status. We are in it for the title. It would be nice to win it, and it would perhaps give some players some pause about going elsewhere knowing we've got a trophy, regardless of it being the smaller of the bunch. Chelsea will likely play their second string anyway. So let's not go to an informal party in a suit (lovely metaphor right?).
3. As tired as we will be, so will our opponents. Tottenham, Chelsea and City will all have games just like us in the Cup and Europe competitions. So we will be sort of on a level playing field. City perhaps bring an exception because they have insane depth, and also an easier CL group.
4. This will test our rotation capabilities up front. Defensively, we will likely be alright, avoiding injuries. But when our trio of Firmino, Salah and Mane, we are not as fluent attacking wise. This year we have Shaqiri to give more depth. And Sturridge will perhaps be relied on more. It will be interesting to see how Klopp manages the attacking side of things to maintain fluency.
 

Perth Red

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#33
I think the first game will see changes, probably a rest for Bobby because of the travelling. The African lads only played once and the rest have been reasonably local so should all be up for selection.
After that I think Jurgen will try to strongest team for every game (bar the LC) and see how things play out. Injuries and form obviously dictate... one game at a time!
 

Mascot88

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#34
One game at a time.
I'll trust in Klopp to do it his way thanks.
The Spurs thread is thataway. No-one is forcing you to look at this one.

I think Klopp’s way is probably closer to taking games in batches, to be honest.
 

Red over the water

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#35
I see it as a bit of both. We have the players to shuffle the pack in a few areas and still keep the level high, and while Klopp will probably be seeing it as a block of games to navigate, at the same time we will need to see how fatigue, form, getting up to speed and niggly injuries factor into the equation for various players.

The one area of the team that doesn’t yet have a clear first choice pecking order is midfield. Milner keeps going. Wijnaldum did well as a 6. Henderson has started slowly but there’s more as he gets going. Keita started at a high level, dipped slightly, but the sky is probably the limit for him when he gets going. And then you would have to think Fabinho will start to factor into the equation over the next month.

I’m glad we have some options. I can’t wait to get going again. It will be a tough month, but it’s stretches like this that show you what you’re made of. Come on you reds!
 

GermanRed

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#36
We have 5 midfielders (all almost on the same level) for 3 positions. All different type of players. All versatile and they also switch positions during the games. This unpredictability for opponents is our secret weapon.
 

Dane

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#37
The Spurs thread is thataway. No-one is forcing you to look at this one.

I think Klopp’s way is probably closer to taking games in batches, to be honest.
I'm not looking, yours is only the second post I've read.
I think Klopp is concentrating solely on the Spurs game to be honest.
Once that game is finished, he'll concentrate solely on PSG.
 

SBYM

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#38
We'll go 7 and 0, and that dream job I just applied for is in the bag.
 

Red_Jedi

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#39
It is a 5 year moving average. Pot 1 is the eight League & Cup champions, not all of whom will be in the top 8 for coefficients. Spain, Germany, and Italy pretty reliably are, Russia never is, the others somewhere in between.

Right now, LFC is #14. There are two factors that strongly suggest we will be moving up. In the top 16, no other side has a score lower than 10 points from 14/15, which is the next year to drop out of consideration. The second will take longer to really resolve. No other team in the top 16 has a 0 in any season, which LFC has for 16/17 (that loss in the EL final hurt us badly that way).

Put in practical terms, we were 2 points shy of Pot 2 this year. We gain those 2 points on Roma simply by rolling over the 14/15 score, our 4 year score is the same as theirs right now. Top of Pot 2 this season is Dortmund, but they are declining in the coefficient, we are just 5 points behind them now. Long and short of it is that if we get through the group round this year, and qualify for the CL again next year, it is very unlikely we will not be in Pot 2.
So if we win the league this season, we should be in the champions league next season.
 

Limiescouse

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#41
I'm not looking, yours is only the second post I've read.
I think Klopp is concentrating solely on the Spurs game to be honest.
Once that game is finished, he'll concentrate solely on PSG.
You definitely need to view the season in periods. We started with early run of once per week league games with no other commitments and we saw a very settled side. We are now going into a period of mayhem that he will be viewing as a collection of games and so thinking about the period very differently. However, you think in very broad strokes, such as how you're going to restructure training to cope with the increased workload and travel. He will be acknowledging that he will have to rotate a bit (as he already has), but with the exception of something like a league cup game, he will not be thinking of the minutia of picking his side for the 7th game down the line 4 weeks ahead of time.
 

kwala

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#42
Periods like this are why we bolstered the squad. We have many options now without a huge drop off in quality.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#43
As we all know, after the international break we've seven crucial matches to navigate before the next break.

We'll have to see who comes back from the international break unscathed, but it's clear that some rotation will be necessary.

Personally I think we'll have to use squad players en masse in the League Cup and take our chances. It's the least important competition, whilst blending fit first choice players with squad players lacking match fitness can cause injuries, when players have to stretch for misplaced passes from those finding their feet.

So what do people think we should do?

Spurs, 9/15, away:

All being well with injuries, the Spurs game requires our strongest defence and attack and a balanced midfield.

There's an argument for giving Fabinho a go at right back, as TAA hasn't been convincing so far this season, though maybe TAA should get another chance in the name of defensive stability.

In midfield, I'd have Henderson at 6 despite his poor performance at Leicester, hopefully he'll be a bit more match fit after the England matches. The midfield three didn't work well at Leicester and Gini does often go missing away from home, so I'd play Keita and Milner with Hendo.

Team: Alisson, TAA, Gomez, VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Salah, Mane, Firmino.

PSG, 9/18, home:

I'd go with the same 11 as against Spurs, except for bringing Gini in for Milner for some fresh midfield legs. I'd consider giving Fabinho a start at right back, as he knows PSG, but would probably hold him back another match.

Team: Alisson, TAA, Gomez, VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Keita, Gini, Salah, Mane, Firmino.

Southampton, 9/22, home:

To keep energy in the side, I'd rotate a couple of defenders, a forward and maybe a midfielder.

I'd probably start Shaqiri instead of Salah, give Fabinho his first 90 at right back, play Moreno at left back and bring Milner back in for Henderson and use Gini at 6.

Team: Alisson, Fabinho, Gomez, VVD, Moreno, Gini, Keita, Milner, Shaqiri, Mane, Firmino.

Chelsea (League Cup), 9/26, home:

I'd play an entire second string, with Fabinho in defensive midfield, to give us a look at him there. I'd play Lallana alongside him, or a 1-2 with Lallana and Shaqiri as the 2.

Very attack minded, but I'm sure Origi and Solanke could press high from wide positions and work back.

The bench would be entirely the youngsters.

Team: Mignolet, Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Moreno, Fabinho, Lallana, Shaqiri, Solanke, Origi, Sturridge.

Chelsea (Premier League), 9/29, away:

Obviously by this point there's a possibility of injuries or form dictating the side, a player or two having done well and deserving their place, or carrying a knock.

For me I'd expect us to go back to the strongest 11, although given Chelsea's midfield we'd maybe have Fabinho at 6, Henderson a bit more advanced pressing and Keita alongside.

Team: Alisson, TAA, Gomez, VVD, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Salah, Mane, Firmino.

Napoli, 10/3, away:

We'll need to get something away at Napoli, but with City to come and the end of this sequence in sight, we could rotate one or two of the best 11.

I'd consider playing Fabinho at right back to give TAA a break before facing City and rest a forward. We might want to rest a centre back too.

Team: Alisson, Fabinho, Lovren, VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Salah, Shaqiri, Firmino.

Man City, 10/7, home:

We need to take more than 10 points from 30 against the top 6 to have a shout at the title, so have to start off with a win if possible.

I'd go with the strongest 11, save for any form/injury variations.

Team: Alisson, TAA, Gomez, VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Salah, Mane, Firmino.
I'd like to see Gini putting in cameos in both of the cups. I think Hendo and Fabinho should be rotated in the 2 big comps. That way, we should have a decent 6 in any side we field.
Yes, Klopp likes total-footballers, but you only select a player in their 2nd, 3rd preferred position if you have no choice. Because, when you take a player out of his vocational position they become less and less effective.
It's great that we have versatile players, but you have make sure they don't build up ring rust in their 2nd position. How do you do that, though? Do you make them play that position in practice matches, or give them game time in that position? Either way, it is important that you don't mess the player around too much.
For Tottenham: if we have a defensive attitude, we may get a scoreless or low score draw. I would be happy with a point there. Pushing for a win may put too much pressure on the back line; even though they have been great so far.
We are in the habit of snatching scrappy wins, so let's defend well and get the ball up to the front three- bypassing the midfield if necessary. It was easy being gung-ho last season, because there was a shit or bust feeling about the club.
I think the stakes are higher this season due to our chances being more much more realistic. With this new found realism comes a healthy amount of caution. Yes, crazy football got us to here, but you can't expect the opposition to let us do the Harlem Globe-Trotters routine. For every Troy Deeney, who waits outside the changing room door [to congratulate us] there are 50 Jay Rodriguez who come to poop the party. Let's get our noses in front as early as we can and, then enjoy seeing a game out; you know, all of the honest stuff.
Only in the home leg of the Chelsea [cup] fixtures do we have to be really offensive. We have a good 2nd string, but it's suited to attacking football. In the away leg we may have to field some 1st stringers, because a lot of our best defensive players are in the main squad.
 

LFCFFC

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#44
Inclined to agree with playing a proper second string XI for the league cup. I understand the lure of competing as hard as possibly in every single competition, given our trophy drought, but it'd be pragmatism over arrogance. Our dip in league form last year when we had no choice but to play pretty much the same XI shows the value in rotation when it's appropriate.

Weird mix of excitement and apprehension for the next month or so. There are some cracking games in there and if we come out looking good, it's going to give us a huge boost for the rest of the year.
 

Danny_

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#45
It's really the next six games as nobody (at least I hope we don't anyway) cares about the league cup. I suppose its a good opportunity for the kids to show what they can do.
 

GermanRed

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#46
It's really the next six games as nobody (at least I hope we don't anyway) cares about the league cup. I suppose its a good opportunity for the kids to show what they can do.
The kids or you mean the likes of Mignolet, Moreno, Matip, Clyne, Shaqiri, Sturridge and Origi? lol

Can't agree with your view towards this competition and Klopp will probably say 'we will do everything we can to win every competition we are in" - but everyone can have his own opinion of course.

Think there won't be any kids starting vs Chelsea - but maybe Solanke will get his Chance. Other than that it will be Mignolet + 3 or 4 of the outfield players i've mentioned above.
 

Red over the water

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#47
It would be nice to win some silverware as it’s been too long. Obviously the Premier League and Champions League are miles ahead, with the FA Cup a good way short of them, and then the League Cup even more so. I want to win it though! I remember the days when we owned the milk cup!

We should play a heavily rotated team in the League Cup given higher priorities elsewhere, but that’s not to say we can’t be very competitive in all competitions, given the options we have. Mind you, we’ve got a very tricky draw against Chelsea. They will rotate too, but they have a deep pool as well. Should be a good contest.
 

Kopstar

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#49
The rate at which our goalkeeping options is declining is slightly alarming.
Not to worry, we've just signed one.

Kai Mckenzie Lyle, formerly of Barnet and international for Guyana. Bloke scored on his international debut so Alisson's going to have to up his game.
 

Claymenza

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#50
Klopp has a solid plan.
Sturridge not being in the international setup gives him a green light to start more games. Lallana too.
Shaqiri too, especially as he looks sharp for switzerland.

We need to keep hold of quality players who are not in the international setups as well
 

indianscouser

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#52
We have 5 midfielders (all almost on the same level) for 3 positions. All different type of players. All versatile and they also switch positions during the games. This unpredictability for opponents is our secret weapon.
Not really.
Keita is much more dynamic imo. Wijnaldum and henderson similar, but i will rate Hendo a bit more. Milner is certainly better than Wij and Hendo.
Fabinho is a question mark as of now.
Without Keita, we have a bang average midfield with very low creativity.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#53
It's really the next six games as nobody (at least I hope we don't anyway) cares about the league cup. I suppose its a good opportunity for the kids to show what they can do.
Hopefully, the second string will take responsibility in the cups (or early stages at least). However, if they progress, and get a few games in, then they should be primed and ready to come into the first team really required.
If we didn't have depth then I would suggest that we jettison the league cup, but with us having such a healthy second string, I would say to those guys: "This is your time to shine". You'd like to think that Sturridge would try to bag as many as he can. I would even tell them that if they get to the final- then they play in the final. They could get some really good minutes in these comps. Also, if our second string looked like it was going far in the league cup, then I think we would get up for it- especially if the first string was doing the biz in the
Prem and CL
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#54
Klopp has a solid plan.
Sturridge not being in the international setup gives him a green light to start more games. Lallana too.
Shaqiri too, especially as he looks sharp for switzerland.

We need to keep hold of quality players who are not in the international setups as well
Shame that Lallana picked up an injury on Poundland duty. I think that when you're in your 30s it should be club before country, because the club is the one who pays your wages. Besides, International comps are too few and far between, whereas club football has 4 decent comps every season (discounting exhibition stuff like euro supercup, world club champs and charity shield). So, I think it's better to save your energy, in the latter part of your career, for your employers and the fans who watch you week-in-week-out.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#55
Not really.
Keita is much more dynamic imo. Wijnaldum and henderson similar, but i will rate Hendo a bit more. Milner is certainly better than Wij and Hendo.
Fabinho is a question mark as of now.
Without Keita, we have a bang average midfield with very low creativity.
Don't forget; Lallana has functioned well in our midfield. Yes, I know he's out of favor -and injury prone- but I seem to remember that he plays well with Firmino, because they both zip around the final third and press the back four really well. Lallana loves this role and can attribute some of his impact injuries due to his overexuberance. I know he's never getting the nod over the other four- but it's just a thought.
 



loudmouthmiller1892

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#56
He is of the Bogdan, Doni, Brad Jones class?
It's very hard to recruit a quality 3rd choice keeper. This can be the most lonely, redundant position in the squad. Most decent young keepers who can get first team football every week -at a decent level- will opt for that, because it is better for their development than fruitless training sessions and the rezzies. Most third choicers see the league cup as their chance, but were talking about swerving the cup, so any incoming keeper is being told that the comp that they are supposed to get game time in, is a comp which we're are not planning to progress in. Only, really, the wages that will entice a good keeper. Do you know what we are prepared to pay for a 3rd goalie?
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#57
Some things to note:

1. Southampton may be the easier out of all of them. But it is easily a game where we can drop points, especially due to fatigue. After Spurs and PSG, these type of games can have 0-0 all over them.
2. Chelsea in the LC is the game to take for granted the most. The reality is we didn't go into this season looking to rebuff our 2012 LC winner status. We are in it for the title. It would be nice to win it, and it would perhaps give some players some pause about going elsewhere knowing we've got a trophy, regardless of it being the smaller of the bunch. Chelsea will likely play their second string anyway. So let's not go to an informal party in a suit (lovely metaphor right?).
3. As tired as we will be, so will our opponents. Tottenham, Chelsea and City will all have games just like us in the Cup and Europe competitions. So we will be sort of on a level playing field. City perhaps bring an exception because they have insane depth, and also an easier CL group.
4. This will test our rotation capabilities up front. Defensively, we will likely be alright, avoiding injuries. But when our trio of Firmino, Salah and Mane, we are not as fluent attacking wise. This year we have Shaqiri to give more depth. And Sturridge will perhaps be relied on more. It will be interesting to see how Klopp manages the attacking side of things to maintain fluency.
Klopp may want to add 1 or 2 2nd stringers in the Southampton game- not only to rest players but to remind them that complacency can lead to dropping points. Maybe Shaq and Sturridge play; if not starting then maybe come off the bench at some point.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#58
I think the first game will see changes, probably a rest for Bobby because of the travelling. The African lads only played once and the rest have been reasonably local so should all be up for selection.
After that I think Jurgen will try to strongest team for every game (bar the LC) and see how things play out. Injuries and form obviously dictate... one game at a time!
Where do you think Fabinho will come into the fold. Do you think he'll play in LC? This game comes with less pressure, but his quality has more chance to stand out amongst lesser personnel (on both sides). Or, do you see him as a surprise inclusion in league- maybe against Southampton?
 

Danny_

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#59
The kids or you mean the likes of Mignolet, Moreno, Matip, Clyne, Shaqiri, Sturridge and Origi? lol

Can't agree with your view towards this competition and Klopp will probably say 'we will do everything we can to win every competition we are in" - but everyone can have his own opinion of course.

Think there won't be any kids starting vs Chelsea - but maybe Solanke will get his Chance. Other than that it will be Mignolet + 3 or 4 of the outfield players i've mentioned above.
Yes, the 2nd string and maybe a few kids mixed in. :well done: I don't mind if we play these. Our second string is good enough to beat a lot of teams. I want us to win so we can give people games but if it turns out that we start getting injuries, the sensible thing to do is to prioritize the more important competitions. I grew up watching football in the 80s and yes, the league cup was important back then. But the game has changed a lot.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#60
Yes, the 2nd string and maybe a few kids mixed in. :well done: I don't mind if we play these. Our second string is good enough to beat a lot of teams. I want us to win so we can give people games but if it turns out that we start getting injuries, the sensible thing to do is to prioritize the more important competitions. I grew up watching football in the 80s and yes, the league cup was important back then. But the game has changed a lot.
Yeah, I suppose there is one added element with LFC, though, because we have won it the most times. Not sure whether the club wants to lose this record. I know a couple of Gunners, and they covert there most FA cups title.