Ozan Kabak (CB) Schalke 04

Red Spud

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I like Matip but definitely prefer Gomez. Lovren actually played more than Matip this season which I only just realized. This shows how important it is we do strengthen at CB before next season now Lovren has gone a new CB has to be a priority.
 

ILLOK

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I think it goes under the radar how fucking immense Joe Gomez is.

England’s best centre back by an absolute fucking mile. Probably the best young centre half in the world.

I don’t understand why fans have a desire to replace him. He is absolutely boss, and only going to get better.

I love irrationally slagging off a centre back, but Gomez is a diamond. He really is.
Who is this aimed at?

Gomez is an excellent player, but not flawless. He has been dreadful since the restart. He might be underrated by some but he's also overrated by plenty of our own who are determined to liken him to Van Dijk, when in reality he's miles behind.

Since Matip returned from his collarbone injury Klopp has consistently picked him ahead of Gomez. Gomez only got back in the team twice this season due to Matip's injuries.

Given Gomez' recent form, I'd expect Matip to be ahead of him going into next season.
 

Ahmed Hussain

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No idea who he is. Tbh don't really know if he's needed either. Not really fussed if he signs or not.
 

Mascot88

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Who is this aimed at?

Gomez is an excellent player, but not flawless. He has been dreadful since the restart. He might be underrated by some but he's also overrated by plenty of our own who are determined to liken him to Van Dijk, when in reality he's miles behind.

Since Matip returned from his collarbone injury Klopp has consistently picked him ahead of Gomez. Gomez only got back in the team twice this season due to Matip's injuries.

Given Gomez' recent form, I'd expect Matip to be ahead of him going into next season.
It’s aimed at anyone, pundit or fan, who has come out with the nonsense that Liverpool need a partner for Van Dijk.

And I disagree that he has been shite since the lockdown. He has had the same wobbles as everyone else, largely cos they’ve all dropped a percent or two since winning it. He has had a number of standout games. He was absolutely brilliant against Newcastle, a performance which was even better considering he was basically managing Williams through the game.

I’m up for getting some cover in (although I don’t think it’s as essential as people think). I’m up for succession planning around Van Dijk moving on (although we do have Hoever and SVDB). But buying a new starting centre back. Absolute waste of money.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Who is this aimed at?

Gomez is an excellent player, but not flawless. He has been dreadful since the restart. He might be underrated by some but he's also overrated by plenty of our own who are determined to liken him to Van Dijk, when in reality he's miles behind.

Since Matip returned from his collarbone injury Klopp has consistently picked him ahead of Gomez. Gomez only got back in the team twice this season due to Matip's injuries.

Given Gomez' recent form, I'd expect Matip to be ahead of him going into next season.
You clearly underrate him if you think he has been dreadful. All our players, including him, have been off the boil in certain games *cough"hungover*cough* but in some of the other games, when we have turned it on, hes been fine. Also up to the covid break he was performing at elite standards. When next season starts and things are back to normal he would be expected to return to that level. Always worth bearing in mind how young he is when talking how inconsistent he can be compared to Matip who can also be inconsistent without the excuse of being young/inexperienced.
 

ILLOK

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I clearly underrate because I think he's been shit in about 6 games?

Yeah, alright then.

I forgot the memo. Soz, he was brilliant at Newcastle apparently. Class at City too and unlucky to come off. Not at fault for the goal vs Brighton. Wasn't poor on 2 of Chelsea's goals. Hasn't consistently given the ball away in dangerous positions.
 

Red Spud

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Since Matip returned from his collarbone injury Klopp has consistently picked him ahead of Gomez. Gomez only got back in the team twice this season due to Matip's injuries.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from but it really isn't true.

Yes Matip started the season as 1st choice alongside Virg and played the full 90 mins in 7 out of the first 9 league games (didn't play at all in the other 2)

He then got injured and didn't start a game in the league for 20 matches in that time he played a total of 1 minute from the bench before managing 72 mins against Everton, getting injured again and not playing again in the league this season.

Thats a grand total of 703 mins in the league vs 1999 for Gomez and as I mentioned before, less that Lovren (776)
 

ILLOK

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I'm not sure where you are getting this from but it really isn't true.

Yes Matip started the season as 1st choice alongside Virg and played the full 90 mins in 7 out of the first 9 league games (didn't play at all in the other 2)

He then got injured and didn't start a game in the league for 20 matches in that time he played a total of 1 minute from the bench before managing 72 mins against Everton, getting injured again and not playing again in the league this season.

Thats a grand total of 703 mins in the league vs 1999 for Gomez and as I mentioned before, less that Lovren (776)
It is true, that's where I got it from.
 

mattyhurst

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Matip worries me with Injury, I know VVD is in a different league considering his ever presentness for 2 years and if Matip and Gomez along with VVD were available for 90% of the time it would be fine but it feels they don't.
 

Red Spud

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Clearly people here underrate Matip, that's what's going on. Maybe you just can't appreciate what he brings to the team?

He has been quality for 2 and a half years now. It's a shame he's not fit more often.
As I already said I like Matip and agree it's a shame he's not fit more often.

But as I also pointed out he hasn't completed 90 mins in the league since we drew with Man U in October 2019

He has played a total of 73 mins in that time and is currently still injured.

As much as you like him, and I do too, it's very unlikely he goes straight back into the first 11 rather than having to win his place back after a long injury lay off.

By the time next season starts he will have basically missed a full calendar year of football, only makes sense for Klopp to ease him back in slowly.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Matip had worked his way into the position of starter at the start of the season and Gomez was out of favour only starting one game in our first 15 matches. Since then Gomez has only failed to start at CB twice in the league. The Watford and Everton games. In that time Matip has been on the bench available to be selected ahead of Gomez 7 times, including the Watford game and didn’t till the Everton game. In one game he didn't even make the bench at all. Gomez seemingly wouldn't be dropped for Matip as soon as Matip was back based on the evidence of that not happening this season. Matip and Gomez are both fantastic CBs and we are lucky to have them both. Gomez can occasionally have a poor game especially when the whole team is after we've already won the league and there's nothing much to play for. Matip can have the odd shakey performance too. Gomez is young and inexperienced and will hopefully iron out any problems with his game and his attitude as he has plenty of time to do so. Matip is kind of the finished article you wouldn't expect much improvement now. They've both had rotten luck with injuries, especially Matip who doesn't seem to be a player you can rely on to be available but is a player you can rely on to perform when used. The partnership of Gomez and VvD though is (up till this recent spell after winning the league) the stingiest pairing we have and opposition hardly get a look in at our goal when they play and are in form. We've got 3 CBs who would walk into every starting 11 in the league though so its a nice debate to have. Personally I'd pick Gomez ahead of Matip as what he learns from playing now can help him improve even further ready for years ahead as one of the best CBs around.
 

ILLOK

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Gomez is not untouchable despite what some think.

Very good player but not there yet.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Fully fit, Matip is #1 pick next to Virg. Gomez is fine, especially for his age. I don't quite get all the hype for Gomez. He's a good player. But all things considered, I'd probably pick Matip first as well.
 

ILLOK

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Fully fit, Matip is #1 pick next to Virg. Gomez is fine, especially for his age. I don't quite get all the hype for Gomez. He's a good player. But all things considered, I'd probably pick Matip first as well.
He's excellent, some just like to go overboard and brush his bad games under the carpet. See plenty of posts on here labelling him the 2nd best defender in the league, saying he'll be better than Van Dijk etc. Clearly that's rubbish, but he is very good and our system suits his strengths and weaknesses perfectly.
 

Sweeting

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Fully fit, Matip is #1 pick next to Virg. Gomez is fine, especially for his age. I don't quite get all the hype for Gomez. He's a good player. But all things considered, I'd probably pick Matip first as well.
I'm the exact opposite, I think Gomez is the better player (although he has some issues to tidy up such as his concentration - but he is still young for a CB) whereas Matip I think is just fine, a solid defender but nothing particularly special.
 

jgw_geneseo

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He's excellent, some just like to go overboard and brush his bad games under the carpet. See plenty of posts on here labelling him the 2nd best defender in the league, saying he'll be better than Van Dijk etc. Clearly that's rubbish, but he is very good and our system suits his strengths and weaknesses perfectly.
Agreed. Matip is more of a right place/ right time type of defender. Gomez is a bit more of a last ditch tackle/block type (not exactly but has more of that in him than Matip). Matip just doesn't allow attackers anywhere near the box. Matip at his best will be in background of games doing the business away from any danger. Gomez at his best will have a few more heart in mouth moments that he snuffs out. I prefer the first, but also enjoy watching the second lol.

Edit: trying to say Matip never looks rushed in anything he does, which is an overlooked quality sometimes for defenders.
 
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ILLOK

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Agreed. Matip is more of a right place/ right time type of defender. Gomez is a bit more of a last ditch tackle/block type (not exactly but has more of that in him than Matip). Matip just doesn't allow attackers anywhere near the box. Matip at his best will be in background of games doing the business away from any danger. Gomez at his best will have a few more heart in mouth moments that he snuffs out. I prefer the first, but also enjoy watching the second lol.

Edit: trying to say Matip never looks rushed in anything he does, which is an overlooked quality sometimes for defenders.
Matip is just better at defending our box, he wins twice as many headers as Gomez does. Van Dijk is incredible and makes up for this shortfall in Gomez' game but if Gomez had to be paired with Fabinho, like Matip was against Bayern, we'd clearly have a problem with crosses and set pieces.

Where Gomez thrives is helping us push up the pitch and having that capability to defend 1v1, which he can do better than Matip due to his pace. Recently though that's something he's struggled with.
 

gasband

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Matip and Gomez are both deserving of a starting place in our first 11, that is why Klopp does not hesitate to put them in. Both of them have different qualities but both of them are more than capable to start alongside VVD. The only difference is Gomez probably has a bigger upside in improvements compared to Matip and thus is seen as more of our CB fixture for a long time to come.

I have mentioned before that unless Klopp does not trust Gomez and Matip anymore, he will not be spending 20-30 mil, just to replace Lovren. If Matip leaves, maybe. You need to get a hint from what Klopp said very recently about stockpiling players. He wants to work with a smaller squad and gives more opportunities across and that is why I think, even if he were to get a replacement for Lovren, it will not be this player who would need upwards of 20mil to get. Good player maybe, but just does not seem to fit into our strategy for transfers now.
 

spartacus136

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Matip is just better at defending our box, he wins twice as many headers as Gomez does. Van Dijk is incredible and makes up for this shortfall in Gomez' game but if Gomez had to be paired with Fabinho, like Matip was against Bayern, we'd clearly have a problem with crosses and set pieces.

Where Gomez thrives is helping us push up the pitch and having that capability to defend 1v1, which he can do better than Matip due to his pace. Recently though that's something he's struggled with.
Matip has excellent on ball skill too. Van Dijk better on long ball but Matip is better in term start attack transition. Not Fabinho level but he I think he is one of the best.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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For me, I don't tend to rate Matip that highly. However, I concede that my opinion is colored of him partnering Lovren and Sakho. Also, repeated injuries don't help.

His career for me a somewhat mixed bag. On the whole fairly average but had an outstanding period of good form where he deserved a first-team spot. I am cautious though as I could easily see him dropping down a level again.

Gomez I believe is generally is a better partner for VvD. The have a better understanding and the cover each others flaws better. Gomez is still developing and has a high ceiling which he has not reached yet. You would be hard pressed to find many better young CBs. For me he is better than the likes of De Ligt and Stones, bar Upamecano who everyone is talking about I cant think of anyone else.
 

Quicksand

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Gomez vs Matip..........
Both have their qualities and failings described eloquently by forum members.....

If both are as good as some of us think then VVD will be benched when they are both fit.....

If both are as poor some think then we need Kabak......
 

Nikola

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For a relatively short period of time, Matip was Liverpool's best centre back but that feels like another life now, though. I think he's a class or two above Lovren but his injury issues have prevented him from becoming a top centre back, he'll never show any consistency over the course of a whole season, let alone a few years. I'm sure that Klopp is fully aware of that, even though I'm also sure he rates his ability when he's fit, otherwise Gomez wouldn't have been benched for him on a few occasions.

Any centre back that Liverpool sign will have a chance of making the starting spot his own. I don't buy this "fourth choice" talk, Matip has his injury issues, Gomez still has some way to go towards reaching consistency (and has also had major fitness troubles), Lovren still managed to play fifteen games this season. The way things are looking right now, it's one first choice centre back and two second choice centre backs, of whom Gomez gets my vote because of his ridiculously high ceiling. Maybe Kabak can rival him in that aspect (and I can't remember the last time Liverpool had a player whose surname was a palindrome, so that's another bonus) and surpass Matip in terms of fitness, giving himself a strong basis for a big career at Liverpool.
 

GermanRed

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We could call him 'KOz' - like 'chaos'.

Great name for an attacker - not so great because he is a CB.