Ozan Kabak (CB) Schalke 04

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Fully on board with this after reading the Forbes article and seeing that chart ARD posted (how long on that is Gomez btw? :().

Sounds like a star in the making, and from those sounds like a much better bet than Ake, who City are pursuing for more money.
Yeah, that is an interesting graph. Then again, Gomez is very low on that as you say, and we know how good he is. There are other stats to take into account: positioning, passing quality, pace etc. But the lad looks good for sure.


Edit: then again, reading that Forbes article:

“I want to play for Galatasaray but I have a soft spot for the Premier League and in particular Manchester United.

Err... actually, scratch all of the above, this move doesn't look like a good idea after all. :rolleyes:
 

Eintrachtfan

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Lots of different opinions about Matip and Gomez in a Kabak-thread.
For me it makes no difference who of them is on the pitch. I like both players.
What I think is our manager must have a reason who he fields.
Concerning injuries I remember VvD got injured at Southampton a few years ago for a longer time. And now he played two EPL-seasons without missing any single game. Every player has sometimes to fight with injuries. Hopefully Matip can overcome his bad luck.
 

Joe Gomez x

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If Jürgen wants so be it I’ll obviously take him.

but it doesn’t sit right with me. I don’t like to sign players that had one good season and could have potentially 3 clubs in 3 years. Just feels more an impulse decision than a thought out decision. Looks good, but nothing better than what we have. Do think we can get by this season without a 4th choice and maybe Nat Phillips as it at a push.

Just seriously think a left back is needed and a world class midfielder especially if Gini is going. Or even I’ll take a left footed centre half that can cover Robbo
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Yeah, that is an interesting graph. Then again, Gomez is very low on that as you say, and we know how good he is. There are other stats to take into account: positioning, passing quality, pace etc. But the lad looks good for sure.


Edit: then again, reading that Forbes article:

“I want to play for Galatasaray but I have a soft spot for the Premier League and in particular Manchester United.

Err... actually, scratch all of the above, this move doesn't look like a good idea after all. :rolleyes:
Does also say he idolises Virgil ;)
 

big noyd

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entirely possible that i'm too stupid to read that graph properly, but i believe it has zouma ahead of gomez in both metrics. zouma is big & surprisingly fast but i've seen enough of him to be confident that he's shit

Do think we can get by this season without a 4th choice and maybe Nat Phillips as it at a push.
don't think phillips is near good enough, and in the little of seen of him van der berg has been quite poor as well
 

Red over the water

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Gomez over Matip for me, though a fit Matip is a good player. As others have said, fitness record poor, so with Lovren gone, a new CB fits the bill. Kabak seems like the sort of profile of player we would go for... could be anything from second to fourth choice as it all unfolds, so if he comes in hungry and keen to show what he can do, bring it on.
 

GermanRed

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Gomez over Matip because Joe is the future and needs games to learn how to lead a Back4.

But, never forget that Matip was definitely in the Top4 best CBs in the world during the 18/19 season.

+ Joel’s dribblings are kind of unique for a CB and can help against teams that defend very deep.
 

Red Spud

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When fully fit I don't think there is another team in the county that wouldn't have either Gomez or Matip in their first 11.

However both of them have had issues with injuries but fortunately Gomez seems to be over them now. I would like to see us make a move for this lad or someone similar. a left footed version of Gomez to cover LB would be ideal but not many players fit that profile.
 

JibJab

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You can't trust Matip to stay healthy. And I think Sepp VDB is probably a couple years away from becoming a contributor, if ever.

We definitely need another CB. Kabak would be a nice, high-upside buy.
 

Fowler's Left Peg

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Fully on board with this after reading the Forbes article and seeing that chart ARD posted (how low on that is Gomez btw? :().
The view on Gomez's position on that chart I guess should be made when we know how many players have been analysed before creating it. If for example every centre back in Europe who has played a significant number of games this season has been considered and these are the top what 25-30 then in that regard he has done well considering his age.

It would be good to know the criteria of the graph, but back to the point the fact Kabak has ranked so high certainly is promising and gives me comfort the club are doing their homework if we sign him.
 

Fowler's Left Peg

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Had a quick search to see if I could find out what the criteria is for that Graph, couldn't find anything, but found this one that seems to cover more players, different numbers for some players, Kabak still close to VVD levels, but take some these images you see wit ha pinch of salt I would say

 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Had a quick search to see if I could find out what the criteria is for that Graph, couldn't find anything, but found this one that seems to cover more players, different numbers for some players, Kabak still close to VVD levels, but take some these images you see wit ha pinch of salt I would say

Its like playing wheres Wally looking for Matip, still can't find him!
 

cynicaloldgit

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Had a quick search to see if I could find out what the criteria is for that Graph, couldn't find anything, but found this one that seems to cover more players, different numbers for some players, Kabak still close to VVD levels, but take some these images you see wit ha pinch of salt I would say

That’s just a map of Greater London with players’ names randomly thrown into it.
 

Fowler's Left Peg

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From that graph it might also be worth keeping an eye on Upamecano from RB, 21 years old. Good numbers for a young player if he keeps churning them out.
 

Fowler's Left Peg

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Its like playing wheres Wally looking for Matip, still can't find him!
Again that image came with no criteria, but any stats like these worth there salt you would have thought would rule out any player who has played less than x number of games, for stats to be worth anything you need a decent sample size, I think he only managed around 15 games so wouldn't surprise me if whoever created this ruled him out on that basis.

Just checked for Matip and based on his 9 PL appearances he has a 69% tackle success and won 90% of his aerial duels, had he been in for more games and kept those numbers up he would be closer to VVD on the chart than Gomez
 

norwegian wood

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From that graph it might also be worth keeping an eye on Upamecano from RB, 21 years old. Good numbers for a young player if he keeps churning them out.
He's also pretty quick and a good ball player. Very interesting player, probably moving for big money in a year or two.

Btw, Matip's 90% aerial duel percentage is crazy good. Literally off the chart, only Subotic comes close.
 

redfanman

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From that graph it might also be worth keeping an eye on Upamecano from RB, 21 years old. Good numbers for a young player if he keeps churning them out.
Top clubs have been linked to him already. I think he has just signed a new contact but will probably be moving in the next year or two.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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He's also pretty quick and a good ball player. Very interesting player, probably moving for big money in a year or two.

Btw, Matip's 90% aerial duel percentage is crazy good. Literally off the chart, only Subotic comes close.
See this is where stats can show whatever you want. VvD is the best player around in the air because he wins the ball with a purpose, it goes where he wants. He frequently beats players to an aerial ball that he nods down to himself. Because he is trying to do something with the ball when he goes for it and its controlled he doesn't win them all (although I'm sure it was higher than that second graph posted). But if just looking at aerial challenge success rate players come up better than him. Doesn't matter that when they "win" the ball its wild and can go anywhere, into the danger zone, to an opposition player, hell even an own goal from a header defending a corner can be counted as a successful aerial duel. Matip has many great parts to his game but winning aerial duels and doing something constructive with the header he really isnt that great at.
 

GermanRed

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So will we have none, 1 or 1,5 turkish players in our squad next season?
 

Fowler's Left Peg

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Its not bad in and of itself just context is needed with stats that isn't given usually.
Its the same with a lot of stats to be honest, they are only a base indicator and shouldn't be read too much into but at least give you a slight indication of a players level.

Assists is another one, sometime it is the pass before the Assist that is the key pass in a goal, yet get no recognition. Someone brought that up when it transpired Gini recorded zero assists this season, but how many times will he have played in Robbo or Trent, breaking the trap with a pass only to get no recognised reward for it.

Thankfully with Klopp and his team these efforts are seen are praised internally I have no doubt