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Philippe Coutinho (MF) Internazionale

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RichLFC

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This is happening, just the work permit takes time. Once that's done then the deals complete. Stating the obvious but shouldn't be any last minute problems apart from that

WP can be fiddly though, as we found out with Gonzales. Who in hindsight the home office were right about, perhaps didnt merit it on performance grounds. No guarantees but as a Brazilian full international he should get it
 

Doggie

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This is happening, just the work permit takes time. Once that's done then the deals complete. Stating the obvious but shouldn't be any last minute problems apart from that

WP can be fiddly though, as we found out with Gonzales. Who in hindsight the home office were right about, perhaps didnt merit it on performance grounds. No guarantees but as a Brazilian full international he should get it
You easing up on Ayre yet? Sturridge and Coutinho seems like excellent business to me.
 

RichLFC

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You easing up on Ayre yet? Sturridge and Coutinho seems like excellent business to me.
No. Because I think he's a liar essentially and doesn't have the clout or the expertise to question a distinctly one dimensional strategy. That's not to say we can't make a couple of useable deals but the squad is still way too light on experience and I think he's consistently managed to dodge the blame for several questionable episodes

If you read the Huddersfield fan sites you begin to get a clue as to his methodology, downatthemac.com gives you an outline. He was recruited as a corporate head remover and the fans have not forgotten him. Nicknames included 'ayrehead', 'pubic Ayre' and my personal favourite 'ayresole'. He's basically only in the job because he speaks the language of the corporate world which FSG are familiar and comfortable with, he tells them what they want to hear, rather than what they need to hear. In his own way he's just as much of a blagger as Commoli who also had the gift of the blab but is a little more slippery when it comes to dodging responsibility for things and perhaps a bit more careful in not being seen to have his fingerprints on episodes that might upset his bosses. One thing they commented on was his uncanny ability to disappear from view whenever shite starts hitting the fan. Reminds me of the Suarez saga, where Kenny was left with his arse out to the wind

And honestly more effort should have been made to upgrade on Downing but nothing doing there. And in any case, even Rick Parry was able first to recruit competent managers in Houllier and Rafa and secondly help sign players like Torres, Alonso etc as well as being able to maintain some influence for the club at the FA but he will never be remembered as a visionary, top level club administrator. All Ayre has done is make himself look generally unpopular with authorities and other clubs in general with ill considered statements and arrogant behaviour. A couple of January signings doesn't change all that for me

I think there is a reason why they employ fellas like him and have shied away from anyone experienced,or anyone like Van Gaal, Cruyff, Rafa, Bergistain etc. even Guardiola succinctly summed us up recently, a great club historically but not one that interested in competing at this time. Ayre will not question the overall strategy because firstly he doesn't know that much anyway and secondly he's waited all his life for this job, he's not going to be the fella responsible for anything going wrong. Ever. His comments on the whole Dempsey/Sturridge saga were an art form in dodging responsibility

Don't like the guy, don't trust him, he may do some things well, more to do with marketing, but he should never have been moved from his old job that he was much better suited for, where being able to bullshit and sell rice to the Chinese was right up his alley and we didnt have to hear him talking bollocks every week or hogging the camera every time a signing or contract is agreed. You don't see that from officials at Man U, Chelsea or anywhere else, you just see the manager and that's it and people like Gill or Dein wouldnt be seen dead on the likes of Being Liverpool. It's the same thing I didn't like about Commoli, it just comes across as someone too fond of having a public profile and not really the actions of someone who is a serious operator. They operate much more quietly and keep out of the public eye, making contacts and friends behind the scenes. He's a lot more careful than Commoli not to deviate from instructions given, but that's not what we need. We need someone who knows instinctively the correct way forward and can convince the owners of that. A young Dein, a reincarnation of Peter Robinson, a Gill, someone experienced and qualified. Someone to fill the massive leadership vacuum. Ayre doesn't do that, he is basically a button man and that's all

The whole Commoli/Ayre thing is kind of typical of FSG really, they replaced a wild loose cannon with a toilet trained yes man, yet in terms of public profile they both always feel insecure if they arent seen. When what you need is a knowledgeable person in between those two poles with the right credentials who values substance over style, who is comfortable getting on with his job with no fanfare
 

indianscouser

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Getting a bit uneasy. Last thing we want is for this deal to collapse. Everyone seems to be certain he is done, with some claiming work permit all sorted. Whats the bloody holdup? If inter accepted the bid and we conducted a medical there is no bloody way the deal can collapse right?
 



Mascot88

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@rich.

Squad light on experience?

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez.

I've no problem with adding a bit of experience to the attacking line, but otherwise I think this whole being short of experience is a bit overstated.
 

Dark Metal

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Anyone else just a little under whelmed by this transfer?

Maybe I don't a lot about him, but from reading on the BBC about him I'm just not getting a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
 

RichLFC

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@rich.

Squad light on experience?

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez.

I've no problem with adding a bit of experience to the attacking line, but otherwise I think this whole being short of experience is a bit overstated.
A couple of them are a bit past their very best or suffer from injuries, we do seem to have major problems getting a full strength team out. Some also seem to have lost a bit of edge. We need a bit more motivated, winning mentality type of experience, rather than part time and perhaps a tad disillusioned type of experience

Bit of kick, bollock, bite, that sort of thing. None of those players really have that edge about them, or the ones that do are getting on a bit. People who are natural leaders. Not many of the above lot are that, even Gerrard hasn't always been seen as a natural captain though he's stepped it up a bit this year
 

Zoran

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Experience in terms of age is one thing, having leaders is another. Wouldn't really call the likes of Johnson, Skrtel and Enrique (he couldn't lead a bunch of 10-year olds) as players who will lead when needed. Established players yes, but for me Bellamy was the type of a player who lead by example without wearing the armband which we never replaced. My player of the season last season, we never replaced some of those who knew to stay calm and be smart when we needed it. The squad lacks quality in the starting XI, in depth and experience overall.
 

LiVeRp0oL89

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The only thing I can think is that Rodgers is tactically delaying the transfer..

What Wenger doesn't realise is that we will announce Doni on the bench tonight (of course, all those associated with Liverpool FC know that Doni is no longer alive..), meaning we only have six substitutes. At the 85th minute mark, our game will be tied at 3-3.. Pascoe will hand Rodgers a pen and Coutinho's contract whilst Wenger fights with the dodgy zip on his coat. Coutinho sprints out of the tunnel and with his first touch (of the pen), signs the contract and replaces Borinho who is praised by Rodgers for making clever runs, despite missing an open goal from a yard out. For five minutes, Coutinho and the rest of Liverpool's attack stand around bored whilst Reina and Skrtel proceed to needlessly pass back and forth to one another until someone intercepts the ball.. Fortunately that player is Agger who, during the wait, has tattoed the words 'death to Tika Taka' on his forehead and hoofs the ball up to our captain.. Gerrardinho launches a pin point 40 yard pass across the pitch to Coutinho who with his first touch, goes on a mazy run past 6 Arsenal players and performs a deft chip over Szczesny (the one we've all seen of him in training) to make it 4-3 to Liverpool deep into stoppage time.. The entire Liverpool team runs over to celebrate with Coutinho, along with Andre Santos, who is desperate for his shirt before the game has even finished. During the post match interview, Wenger berates the quality of his zip and, as a result of the incident, is completely unaware that Coutinho came on and scored the winner. Wenger hits the roof and calls for a ban on Brazilian player's joining clubs in January whilst admitting that he will now have to enter the market.. for a new coat.

It could happen ;)
 



Doggie

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Anyone else just a little under whelmed by this transfer?

Maybe I don't a lot about him, but from reading on the BBC about him I'm just not getting a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
The BBC love a bit of Liverpool bashing. I don't see any other signings being questioned in the same way. All signings have risk, and no doubt he will need to adapt, but the talent is there for sure.
 

RichLFC

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The BBC love a bit of Liverpool bashing. I don't see any other signings being questioned in the same way. All signings have risk, and no doubt he will need to adapt, but the talent is there for sure.
No wonder though looking at our record. Been absolutely woeful

But like you am hoping he will work out better, the advantage he has over some of his predecessors is that he has played for a large club in Inter so should know what to expect. Reckon it may take half a season though

Be nice if we could sign a good quality winger with experience to replace Downing as well but that seems to have been abandoned on the back of a flash in the pan spell of form. Procrasturbation is an art form here, but in the summer I hope someone does something to deal with that problem. Year late for me but hopefully the TV money might give us a bit more of a shove in dealing with the remaining empties
 

kwala

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This delay in announcing the transfer is really dulling peoples enthusiasm about it.

The Inter fans are PISSED off at Coutinho being sold. That is a good enough endorsement for me. If he was shite they wouldn't bat an eye lid.

Some of you could pick holes in a singularity.
 

ChicagoRed

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@rich.

Squad light on experience?

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez.

I've no problem with adding a bit of experience to the attacking line, but otherwise I think this whole being short of experience is a bit overstated.
It is being overstated. You can add Downing to that list too. In addition, Sturridge has more than enough experience to come play for us. Some people act like our 11 is a U21 team.
 

RichLFC

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It is being overstated. You can add Downing to that list too. In addition, Sturridge has more than enough experience to come play for us. Some people act like our 11 is a U21 team.
You can be experienced but still be limp like John Inmans wrist. Downing for example would fit that category perfectly but most of the other over 25s we have are not really natural leaders either, if not quite as cowardly

Carra is but sadly the body won't do it any more.

Gerrard isn't by nature, he's a quiet man, but he is still able enough to lead by example and at least is respected by opponents

Lucas is a determined guy but a bit too nice to be seen as a tough leader. Though he's definitely grown a bit in that regard up to his injury. Since the injury, he's been up and down

Johnson, talented but seen him bale out sometimes when the pressure is on. Same for Enrique, yet with less natural talent

Reina for me hasn't looked that motivated in recent seasons

Skrtel is a bit soft and Agger for me is still a bit fearful of getting injured. Neither are really leader types, especially the former who the manager definitely felt let down by on Sunday night

Suarez is an exception, almost always shows up, bit too wild to be a natural captain but shirker he most definitely isn't, need more of his kind

It's the right type of experience. Ours is of the disillusioned, follower, too used to mediocrity kind unfortunately. Past glories seem a bit forgotten and some of the fire isn't as bright as it once was with much of that bunch
 



ChicagoRed

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You can be experienced but limp like John Inmans wrist. Downing for example would fit that category perfectly but most of the other over 25s we have are not really natural leaders

Carra is but sadly the body won't do it any more.

Gerrard isn't but he is still able enough to lead by example and at least is respected by opponents

Lucas is a determined guy but a bit too nice to be seen as a tough leader. Though he's definitely grown a bit in that regard up to his injury. Since the injury, he's been up and down

Johnson, talented but seen him bale out sometimes when the pressure is on. Same for Enrique, yet with less natural talent

Reina for me hasn't looked that motivated in recent seasons

Skrtel is a bit soft and Agger for me is still a bit fearful of getting injured. Neither are really leader types, especially the former who the manager definitely felt let down by on Sunday night

Suarez is an exception, almost always shows up, bit too wild to be a natural captain but shirker he most definitely isn't, need more of his kind

It's the right type of experienced. Ours is of the disillusioned, follower, too used to mediocrity kind unfortunately. Past glories seem a bit forgotten and some of the fire isn't as bright as it once was with much of that bunch
I see what you are saying, but you can be an expeirenced player and still be a good player(or not) and not be a leader. Not everybody needs to be a leader and not everybody leads the same way. At this level, it's called being a professional. Nobody should need a ra ra speech before the Arsenal game today and to be told it's a big game. Our starting 11 shouldn't have that problem. Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Pepe is probably the most expeirenced back line out of any in the EPL, if not one of the most. And I think Agger is the captain of Denmark
 

Quagmire81

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Are we gonna wrap this deal up or what?!

Personally I don't think adding another prosphet to the bunch is the best way to go. Should have gone all in for sneijder. Rather than another competitor for the other young offensive player(Mainly Sterling,Shelvey and Suso) they would have had a teacher, one they would admire/look up to and accept being behind in the picking order. I doubt they will have that attitude with Coutinho.
 

jabu

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I moved here from the USA two years ago and I find your bbc and sky sports very amusing when it comes to reporting, especially concerning Man U and liverpool. There is an obvious bias and u can say a certain glee and pride from the pundits whenever liverpool lose a game.... Was following a we chat on sky and someone asked graham bailey the question who is a better buy, zaha at £15 or coutinho at £8.5 and u guessed it, he said zaha is the better signing. So looking at this critically how is zaha a better buy? Is he better technically, no, is he a better player, no, does he have more potential, no, is he more experienced, no.... So how is he a better buy? Even hypothetically let's say liverpool paid £15 for coutinho same price for zaha, on what grounds do u argue that zaha is better.... Coutinho has played first team football in two leagues and zaha has not. Countinho has played for brazil and zaha for England in a friendly..... I jus do not understand mr baily's assessment here, please help
 

lfc.eddie

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jabu, Graham Bailey is a xenophobic idiot. That is all you need to understand mate....
 

RichLFC

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I moved here from the USA two years ago and I find your bbc and sky sports very amusing when it comes to reporting, especially concerning Man U and liverpool. There is an obvious bias and u can say a certain glee and pride from the pundits whenever liverpool lose a game.... Was following a we chat on sky and someone asked graham bailey the question who is a better buy, zaha at £15 or coutinho at £8.5 and u guessed it, he said zaha is the better signing. So looking at this critically how is zaha a better buy? Is he better technically, no, is he a better player, no, does he have more potential, no, is he more experienced, no.... So how is he a better buy? Even hypothetically let's say liverpool paid £15 for coutinho same price for zaha, on what grounds do u argue that zaha is better.... Coutinho has played first team football in two leagues and zaha has not. Countinho has played for brazil and zaha for England in a friendly..... I jus do not understand mr baily's assessment here, please help
Ferguson has 25 years of experience blooding kids in to his teams. He's had a few blobs but loads of successes as well, you can't argue with his track record

You can unfortunately with ours, which is considerably more patchy. Most of our best players have been home grown, and honestly there aren't that many young players under the age of say 22 in the last 20 years who we have brought in from outside and turned out to be a success. Lucas was one but it took years, apart from that its been mostly a bit of a tale of woe, from the new Zidane Cheyrou to the new Drogba Carroll, amongst all the Palettas and Pongolles and Pachecos and what have you

Objectively speaking, you would naturally back the bloke who has won title after title with about 4 regenerated teams over a club which has in all honesty become a bit of a signpost in not how to spend money. Also because of their success, blooding kids at Man U is perhaps more fail safe than it is here, they don't have to do too much early on, they can relax knowing the rest of the team will do their thing and show your best, and even if it doesn't work the club will always have a queue for their flops

I think this might in the long run be a fair call, but can see why people outside are more skeptical. Look at the respective records of both clubs and managers in the last 20 years, that tells you all you really need to know. Is not what we want to hear but the truth sometimes hurts.its not just about the player,it's the environment they are entering in to. Theirs is a lot more stable and established and players are not burned out or have to endure the same baptisms of fire

With these things we can be a bit too biased to see the objective reality of the situation. Talent wise I think we have a comparable player, maybe a better one, but the environment he has come in to here is a culture of underachievement, frustration and weak organisation. He's not coming to a club which drills a winning mentality in to its employees any more. That's the advantage Zaha will have at Man U compared with Coutinho here
 



coughing

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Are we gonna wrap this deal up or what?!

Personally I don't think adding another prosphet to the bunch is the best way to go. Should have gone all in for sneijder. Rather than another competitor for the other young offensive player(Mainly Sterling,Shelvey and Suso) they would have had a teacher, one they would admire/look up to and accept being behind in the picking order. I doubt they will have that attitude with Coutinho.
I think Coutinho is like Mata was when he signed for Chelsea, sure he may be young, but he can offer so much more than what we have currently. Mata is still very young for chelsea, but other players around him looks up to him, age doesnt matter in this respect
 

Nikola

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jabu, beside the bias that some journalists and pundits have, one obvious reason why everyone rates Zaha higher than, say, Ince and Coutinho is his physical build. That lad will bully many defenders into submission, which can't be said about the latter two.
 

TFC

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Ferguson has 25 years of experience blooding kids in to his teams. He's had a few blobs but loads of successes as well, you can't argue with his track record

You can unfortunately with ours, which is considerably more patchy. Most of our best players have been home grown, and honestly there aren't that many young players under the age of say 22 in the last 20 years who we have brought in from outside and turned out to be a success. Lucas was one but it took years, apart from that its been mostly a bit of a tale of woe, from the new Zidane Cheyrou to the new Drogba Carroll, amongst all the Palettas and Pongolles and Pachecos and what have you

Objectively speaking, you would naturally back the bloke who has won title after title with about 4 regenerated teams over a club which has in all honesty become a bit of a signpost in not how to spend money. Also because of their success, blooding kids at Man U is perhaps more fail safe than it is here, they don't have to do too much early on, they can relax knowing the rest of the team will do their thing and show your best, and even if it doesn't work the club will always have a queue for their flops

I think this might in the long run be a fair call, but can see why people outside are more skeptical. Look at the respective records of both clubs and managers in the last 20 years, that tells you all you really need to know. Is not what we want to hear but the truth sometimes hurts.its not just about the player,it's the environment they are entering in to. Theirs is a lot more stable and established and players are not burned out or have to endure the same baptisms of fire
You'd expect that their commentary on the players would have something to do with the actual players, rather than basing it completely off of their respective clubs previous track record. By that logic it really doesn't matter who the clubs sign, so they might as well made a commentary about the transfer history rather than anything about Zaha and Coutinho, if nothing they said had a thing to do with the players themselves.
 

RichLFC

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You'd expect that their commentary on the players would have something to do with the actual players, rather than basing it completely off of their respective clubs previous track record. By that logic it really doesn't matter who the clubs sign, so they might as well made a commentary about the transfer history rather than anything about Zaha and Coutinho, if nothing they said had a thing to do with the players themselves.
Yeah but it is something that can't be overlooked I'm afraid. I think we have despite our cock ups signed players of comparable ability before, but the club wasn't as stable or as skilled in getting the best out of them as old red nose down the road,so they don't make the grade

Coutinho will be expected to become a regular squad player now. Man U can loan out Zaha for half a season then blood him at their leisure, and physically he definitely has the raw materials to be fair to him

So much more strength in depth, and considerably more time and leisure to develop the player,at a lower risk as because they are a top club people will pay good money for their cast offs. For the player he has the luxury of developing at his own pace in a successful team. So the pressure is much less and the natural talent is less likely to be inhibited
 

TFC

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Yeah but it is something that can't be overlooked I'm afraid. I think we have despite our cock ups signed players of comparable ability before, but the club wasn't as stable or as skilled in getting the best out of them as old red nose down the road,so they don't make the grade

Coutinho will be expected to become a regular squad player now. Man U can loan out Zaha for half a season then blood him at their leisure, and physically he definitely has the raw materials to be fair to him

So much more strength in depth, and considerably more time and leisure to develop the player,at a lower risk as because they are a top club people will pay good money for their cast offs
Not sure how much success they've had with that recently. They've been pretty piss poor in the last couple of years, losing the top prospects from their reserves.

We have Kelly. ManU had Fryers, who left. We have Shelvey/Suso. ManU had Pogba and Morrison, the latter ruined his career while the former left.
 



RichLFC

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Not sure how much success they've had with that recently. They've been pretty piss poor in the last couple of years, losing the top prospects from their reserves.

We have Kelly. ManU had Fryers, who left. We have Shelvey/Suso. ManU had Pogba and Morrison, the latter ruined his career while the former left.
In terms of internal youth development they have had a few hiccups lately but externally across the years their recruitment remains pretty sound. They have this irritating habit of signing initially moderate looking players and make them winners and generally speaking most players that get regular games there tend to eventually start becoming match winners, success rubs off

A habit we lost after Kenny left the first time and didnt get back. For us they have to be hard as nails mentally to crack it here now because the support network around them won't get the best out of them. They have to do it mostly off their own bat and under more pressure as they are sharing the field with average players with a bit of a indifferent attitude to losing. Mediocrity can also sadly rub off

They may find it harder once Ferguson falls off the perch but in the meantime, the odds on new signings settling in over there successfully are at this point much more favorable there than they are here. Almost everyone we sign seems to end up flopping nowadays. For instance Allen would have done well at Man U, teams would be scared to put in a challenge and all he would have to do is get the ball to one of their wingers or Van Persie and bobs your uncle. Here though teams will get stuck in much more and the quality isn't as evident around him. So he finds it a lot more difficult and his physical weaknesses get more exposed

For instance the likes of Wes Orange have been exposed a bit ability wise when they left Man U, and I reckon that had they come here the likes of Carrick, Wellbeck etc would have ended up a bit dog shit. I also reckon Souness would have converted Pallister in to a Neil Ruddock and Evans would have made Cantona in to a Collymore. Without fail. But there they are able to take on the world....
 

Quagmire81

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I think Coutinho is like Mata was when he signed for Chelsea, sure he may be young, but he can offer so much more than what we have currently. Mata is still very young for chelsea, but other players around him looks up to him, age doesnt matter in this respect
I would be very surprised if he's even near Mata's level. Mata was already a household name at valencia.Well we can only hope :)
 

ubermick

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You can be experienced but still be limp like John Inmans wrist. Downing for example would fit that category perfectly
Bang out of order, and completely uncalled for Rich, FFS. Hope had to talk me down off the ledge there, to me that's a bannable offence.

John Inman's wrist is nowhere NEAR as limp as our Stewie's mentality.
 



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