• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Phillippe Coutinho (LW/AM)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,765
This feels a bit like what happened with Owen to me. He left because he thought he'd have it better in Real Madrid. We went and won the Champions League whilst things went to shit for Owen at the Bernabeu.

Owen wanted to come back. Let it be known that he really wanted a return to Liverpool. Rafa wasn't having any of it but Owen made sure to get it out there to the fans that the only reason he didn't come back to Liverpool was because of the club. It allowed him to join Newcastle without any ill-will. Then, of course, he joined the scum.

This is what it feels like to me with Coutinho. He wants to placate the fans by saying this is where he would choose to return to when all along he probably knows we aren't interested and Jarobchian's eyeing up City, Tottenham, United or Arsenal.
Owen was an utter cunt who ran down his contract to the last year and we were forced to sell or he would leave on a free. We got a massive fee for Coutinho. Owen joined our fiercest rivals and not even for big money. Coutinho says he won't join any of our rivals because he loves the club. So far, it's not a similar situation at all if you look at the facts. Obviously, if your suspicions about his motives are true, then there would be some similarity although there still is the massive fee we got for him as a rather big difference.
 


Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,765
The other great thing from letting him come back is that he gets to tell anyone else thinking about moving that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and they have it really good at the club, with Klopp taking care of them.
 

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,765
I don't really bear him any ill will, he made a terrible decision leaving a rising LFC to join a falling Barcelona, his loss, not ours. However, the manner of it was problematic. If Klopp is fine with that, I will be fine with that. We know how good he can be, we have seen it, and it is possible he can be fit into one configuration or another, although we might have seen his peak. I just don't see him as likely to take the side to a new higher level.

On the other hand, I can see a lot of different ways this could go badly. Lots of asymmetry here, the upside risk doesn't seem nearly as large as the downside risk, which is almost always not a good trade.
What is the downside risk? I would point out that there is always risk in any transfer. With Coutinho, especially if we can get him on loan (ideally a two year loan), I see very little risk. We know that he will gel well with the other front 3. We know he has good chemistry with them. We also know that he will fit into the dressing room and that he is a good professional who will do a job for us. Already, that's a lot less risk than going for a new guy who we don't know will fit into the Liverpool family. Also, Coutinho already knows Klopp's syststem so the bedding in process will be much shorter, if needed at all.
 

Imgoingred

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
542
In your opinion. I'm perfectly able to form my own and in my opinion once he had buckled down in that half season then he was very effective, but the previous season I found him to be one-dimensional, sporadic, often times frustrating. That has nothing to to do witht the way he left, only the way he played. It culminated in the Europa League final where he was probably our 2nd worst player.

You can think what you like about him, but I thank you not to insist that the criticism of him as a player has anything to do with his manner of leaving.
Fair enough - in your opinion. It is my opinion that people are revising their view of him due to his actions in leaving the club - because I cannot see any other reason anyone would think he was ineffective or one-dimensional and I do not remember his ability/effectiveness ever being this polarising a discussion. Had we had rumours of wanting to sell him WITHOUT it being public knowledge he personally wanted to leave, there is no doubt that 99% of the people here would have been up in arms.

Regarding the 16-17 season, I feel he was even more important and would have put up numbers comparable to Hazard's POTY nominee season (15/15 or something similar) had it not been for his injury right before the festive period. Bear in mind that was only Klopp's first full season in charge and we were not playing anywhere near as well as we are now or did in 17-18. Also, the EL final was 2015-16 - A long time ago. He has improved a lot since then and become one of, if not, the most important player in the team up until he left.

Its impossible to do a side-by-side comparison of course, but how much was Coutinho's style of play holding back the team? Perhaps the players weren't ready to take on the additional burden at the time so Coutinho was a blessing, but its also possible those 12 goals could have been 18 spread over a number of players and perhaps we could have picked up points in games we dropped points if we were playing more of a team game? Who knows?
Perhaps, but we'll never know and there is no point in thinking that way. And why does it matter? People suggested we are over-reliant on our front 3, but it works and we've gone to 2 Champions league finals thanks to that system. Klopp insists he was very important to our press, yet some people seem to believe he wasn't. I've even seen someone blame Coutinho's lack of defensive contributions on why Moreno is poor...
 



Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
23,970
What is the downside risk? I would point out that there is always risk in any transfer. With Coutinho, especially if we can get him on loan (ideally a two year loan), I see very little risk. We know that he will gel well with the other front 3. We know he has good chemistry with them. We also know that he will fit into the dressing room and that he is a good professional who will do a job for us. Already, that's a lot less risk than going for a new guy who we don't know will fit into the Liverpool family. Also, Coutinho already knows Klopp's syststem so the bedding in process will be much shorter, if needed at all.
Well, the most obvious downside risk is that there is only one ball, and that worked out extremely badly for Coutinho at Barca. With Salah, Mane, and Firmino, he will never be the focal point that he was when he had his best seasons at LFC. Coming back to LFC would actually be a similar challenge to the one he just failed.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
17,536
This feels a bit like what happened with Owen to me. He left because he thought he'd have it better in Real Madrid. We went and won the Champions League whilst things went to shit for Owen at the Bernabeu.

Owen wanted to come back. Let it be known that he really wanted a return to Liverpool. Rafa wasn't having any of it but Owen made sure to get it out there to the fans that the only reason he didn't come back to Liverpool was because of the club. It allowed him to join Newcastle without any ill-will. Then, of course, he joined the scum.

This is what it feels like to me with Coutinho. He wants to placate the fans by saying this is where he would choose to return to when all along he probably knows we aren't interested and Jarobchian's eyeing up City, Tottenham, United or Arsenal.

not seeing it myself. i think youre giving him and kia too much credit.

thats a lot of effort and planning to go into basically a PR exercise for a group of people who hes already shown he doesnt care about upsetting.
 

Tokyo_Red

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Messages
202
Rush went to Juventus right? If he wants back and he’s willing to fight for it then I’d love him back. Personally, feel he’d be exactly what we need, either in midfield against a low block or up front against top four. His free kicks, distance shooting, passing from in front of the back four as well as his pressing (@city in 16/17 for example) all suit the side.
 

legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,816
The bigger issue for me is the team dynamic. If Cou returns then Shaq was a bad buy as they are both AM/Wide forwards that will be fighting over the same scraps. In no world will Coutinho get more starts than our current front 3. He would get starts when our forwards need rest, but mostly as a 70 min sub. I also don't think he is anywhere near the correct fit for our midfield, so he would be getting game time further advanced in Mane's position when Sadio isn't playing.

Nah... the more I think about it the less likely it seems. Unless Klopp decides to start buying back players to help a brother out, it makes little sense. Coutinho's agent is clearly sounding out interest from us and clearly Coutinho would be up for a return, but I'm not sure we are interested, regardless of how he is packaged financially.
I know that initially I said that I would welcome him back, and I still would, but I think 88 million or anywhere near that would be too much for someone who would, in all probability, be used as @Gone Kloppo said above. Around 50 million or less, then OK. I'm also concerned that his arrival might force others, i.e. Sadio and AOC, to reconsider their futures with the club and nobody would want that. Unless, that is if Klopp is expecting Sadio to move to Real next summer and sees Coutinho as a ready made replacement.

I agree with the bit in bold.
 



WestTexasRed1970

TIA Regular
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
1,833
I know that initially I said that I would welcome him back, and I still would, but I think 88 million or anywhere near that would be too much for someone who would, in all probability, be used as @Gone Kloppo said above. Around 50 million or less, then OK. I'm also concerned that his arrival might force others, i.e. Sadio and AOC, to reconsider their futures with the club and nobody would want that. Unless, that is if Klopp is expecting Sadio to move to Real next summer and sees Coutinho as a ready made replacement.

I agree with the bit in bold.
I haven't posted in a while (it's been a LONG LONG TIME), but this has me motivated to join the discussion. I don't see us giving more than 50 million for him. They don't want him, and they've made it known in the media that they are willing to sell him. The loan deal would be good, but paying 88 million quid? No way.
 

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,765
Rush went to Juventus right? If he wants back and he’s willing to fight for it then I’d love him back. Personally, feel he’d be exactly what we need, either in midfield against a low block or up front against top four. His free kicks, distance shooting, passing from in front of the back four as well as his pressing (@city in 16/17 for example) all suit the side.
The Rush situation was different. Yes, when he came back, he was a shadow of the player he had been but that was because he got injured and lost a yard of pace (very similar to what happened to Michael Owen in his mid 20's when he was playing for us). There was more to Rush's game than pace for sure but it was still a vital part of it and he was not the same player that left for Juve, when he returned. Coutinho would be exactly the same player as his game does not rely on pace at all. The only thing missing might be confidence and we have the perfect manager to mend that.
 

JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
803
Well, the most obvious downside risk is that there is only one ball, and that worked out extremely badly for Coutinho at Barca. With Salah, Mane, and Firmino, he will never be the focal point that he was when he had his best seasons at LFC. Coming back to LFC would actually be a similar challenge to the one he just failed.
He played with those three for several months prior to being sold and looked quite good.

I don't see that as a legitimate concern, honestly. If he came back, he'd probably sit behind the front three and he able to both distribute to them and take his own shots when needed. He could also play wide in a 4-2-3-1 with Salah up front. He'd also be able to rotate into the front three, enabling us to give them rest when needed.

The questions about his mentality are legitimate, but I believe Klopp would be able to deploy Coutinho quite well...if he actually wants to buy him back (which I doubt quite strongly).
 

DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
7,003
No way Klopp will let someone back into the dressing room who has a mutinous past, regardless of what arguments we can come up with as fans. So many other options out there.
 



BigJon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
198
I haven't posted in a while (it's been a LONG LONG TIME), but this has me motivated to join the discussion. I don't see us giving more than 50 million for him. They don't want him, and they've made it known in the media that they are willing to sell him. The loan deal would be good, but paying 88 million quid? No way.
I think the point is that Liverpool would not be paying 88 million - they would be canceling the debt. In essence, Barcelona would have loaned Coutinho for approx 50 million for less than 2 seasons. It would make great financial sense if the player is injury free and wanted by Klopp who has always spoken very highly of Coutinho. He would fit into the squad with ease.
There is also so much B.S. in the press regarding transfers - very few people know the exact details/background of his transfer from Liverpool to Barcelona so any criticism of him leaving the club is without many foundations. I would never criticise a player with ambition even if he did ultimately make the wrong choices.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1,609
2 year loan deal is fine but to pay £88m for a then 29/30 year old doesn’t make much sense.

If Spurs sell Eriksen then he can get his game there.
 

Rooster

What a hit son
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,356
We bent Barça over once so let it go. No way buy him back. A loan I could maybe accept.

I can see one of our front 3 moving on this time next year so a player who could transition would be money well spent now. Not convinced that is Cou.

It’s gunna come down to what that cockhead Neymar does. Could see dominoes again.
 



Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
23,170
If it happens, I would expect it to be for the amount still owing to us being written off, rather than a fee we shell out for, and probably late on in the window. It would come down to Barca's desperation to get him off the books and at least get rid of his wages over-riding the loss of face that would entail.

While the two-year loan and eventual fee sounds good in theory, I agree that it becomes unlikely when you picture us paying a Bale-sized fee for a near-30 year old.
 

AussieLad

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
5,115
I am against the move. The way he shat on Klopp, the club and the rest of the squad means I find it hard to see how he would be welcomed back into the fold.

But, if Klopp approves the move, and Edwards can work his magic once again, say wiping off the outstanding fees they owe us, and cover 70% of his wages, then I would begrudgingly go along with it. If it means we have to dip into funds in any way, shape or form then he can fuck right off
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,429
This feels a bit like what happened with Owen to me. He left because he thought he'd have it better in Real Madrid. We went and won the Champions League whilst things went to shit for Owen at the Bernabeu.

Owen wanted to come back. Let it be known that he really wanted a return to Liverpool. Rafa wasn't having any of it but Owen made sure to get it out there to the fans that the only reason he didn't come back to Liverpool was because of the club. It allowed him to join Newcastle without any ill-will. Then, of course, he joined the scum.

This is what it feels like to me with Coutinho. He wants to placate the fans by saying this is where he would choose to return to when all along he probably knows we aren't interested and Jarobchian's eyeing up City, Tottenham, United or Arsenal.
That's not how i remember Owen's move to Newcastle. I thought the club wanted him but needed to get Madrid to lower the asking price first and so asked him to sit tight until the end of the window. He panicked and took the offer from Newcastle?
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1,609
These players who go for huge money seem to get the hump when they cant be moved on at the drop of a hat.

Phil cost nearly £150m
Neymar cost £180m-ish
Pogba would go for £150m

All this money and thats without wages to think about. The selling clubs want their money back but no clubs have this kind of money. This is where football has hit a ceiling. Players have priced themselves out of moves.
 



gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
Ad-free Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
5,181
Perhaps he can still play for his dream club, Barcelona Sporting Club in Ecuador.
 

Irishanfield

Internet Terrorist
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
4,729
That's not how i remember Owen's move to Newcastle. I thought the club wanted him but needed to get Madrid to lower the asking price first and so asked him to sit tight until the end of the window. He panicked and took the offer from Newcastle?
So he wanted us to pay over twice as much as we got for him when he held the club to ramsom to sell him to Madrid for pittance in the first place or lose him for nothing the following season
Yep He could have pushed Madrid to sell to us for what we sold him for but as you said he was spineless
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
1,932
So currently £133m is the cost of the deal of which, no more than £53m has yet to be paid (unless Barcelona have defaulted).
Waive of the amount of 53M and get Coutinho ? Won't be a bad bit of transfer business if that can happen.
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
1,932
not sure we'd do business with that agent first and foremost .
Here, I suspect it wasn't the agent. Coutinho wanted to move to Barca and the agent's first job is to get the best deal for his player.
 



Status
Not open for further replies.