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Phillippe Coutinho (LW/AM)

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fspencer

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Here, I suspect it wasn't the agent. Coutinho wanted to move to Barca and the agent's first job is to get the best deal for his player.
there are ways that you should go about things, whilst that might appear to have been what was best for his client, he also needs to think about his future professional relationships .

He was at the centre of all this. He wasn't looking out for his client but lining his own pockets . He used to do a lot of business with the club in the premier league but we tend to hear his name less and less .
 

Genius

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I would definitely welcome Phil back to Liverpool as a new exhibit in a zoo. After all he is the only species of snake that suffers from back problem.

On a more serious note, for all his footballing talents, he is definitely welcome. But his antics and absolute cunt like attitude before leaving? No way Kloppo or even our wholesome bunch of squad would welcome him (sure maybe the Brazilian contingent would).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every second he has been shit and Barca and trust me, the 4-0 win against barca and 2 CL finals since Phil left us was nothing but satisfaction for me.

If Phil does come back, he has to do it under two condition, sack his agent, and fix his back problem
 

fspencer

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I would definitely welcome Phil back to Liverpool as a new exhibit in a zoo. After all he is the only species of snake that suffers from back problem.

On a more serious note, for all his footballing talents, he is definitely welcome. But his antics and absolute cunt like attitude before leaving? No way Kloppo or even our wholesome bunch of squad would welcome him (sure maybe the Brazilian contingent would).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every second he has been shit and Barca and trust me, the 4-0 win against barca and 2 CL finals since Phil left us was nothing but satisfaction for me.

If Phil does come back, he has to do it under two condition, sack his agent, and fix his back problem
it feels a bit like leaving your missus, for a supposedly better younger, more attractive woman, finding out she's actually had more work done than Pamela Anderson. She's got a roving eye, thinks nothing of leaving you at home, so she can go clubbing with other men .

so you crawl back to your previous partner, who is now doing extremely well for herself , she just laughs at you ,whilst in the background you see this great big hulk of a fellow ( Fabinho )., you slink off and sleep with the first drunken female you find ( PSG) .
 



Danny_

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Barca won't sell him for anything less than 80m as it is probably politically impossible to do so. They would have to admit that they massively overpaid for him (which they did although they underpaid us for Suarez). The loan deal is the only way I see this happening.
 

AussieLad

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I would definitely welcome Phil back to Liverpool as a new exhibit in a zoo. After all he is the only species of snake that suffers from back problem.

On a more serious note, for all his footballing talents, he is definitely welcome. But his antics and absolute cunt like attitude before leaving? No way Kloppo or even our wholesome bunch of squad would welcome him (sure maybe the Brazilian contingent would).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every second he has been shit and Barca and trust me, the 4-0 win against barca and 2 CL finals since Phil left us was nothing but satisfaction for me.

If Phil does come back, he has to do it under two condition, sack his agent, and fix his back problem
and 3rd - appologise to Klopp and beg his forgiveness
 

Arminius

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I think the point is that Liverpool would not be paying 88 million - they would be canceling the debt. In essence, Barcelona would have loaned Coutinho for approx 50 million for less than 2 seasons. It would make great financial sense if the player is injury free and wanted by Klopp who has always spoken very highly of Coutinho. He would fit into the squad with ease.
There is also so much B.S. in the press regarding transfers - very few people know the exact details/background of his transfer from Liverpool to Barcelona so any criticism of him leaving the club is without many foundations. I would never criticise a player with ambition even if he did ultimately make the wrong choices.
There is no real difference between cancelling a debt of 88 million, and paying 88 million.
 



KillerBeeLFC

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Cheers. I compared their 2017/18 seasons on WhoScored since they both had a good year then and is probably the season which persuaded us and barca to go for the players.
Their defensive stats where quite similar, to my untrained eye anyway.
I'm still not sure Cout would do what would be required to play in our midfield but it is interesting that they had similar stats

Not sure how to post the player comparison but this is the site I used

 

Arminius

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Is Coutinho actually up for sale or been told he is,if not then he's trying all that shady shit again which is not a good look.
I think it is fairly obvious that Barcelona would prefer to move him out. The stories in the Spanish press that Griezmann was going to get Coutinho's number turned out to be incorrect, but it is unlikely that they made it into AS by accident.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I've no idea what KopTalk is like as a source (let's assume less than reliable), but that scenario sounds pretty believable, that the move is being driven from Coutinho's side but we're not taking the bait at this time.

What most jumped out for me was the bit where we've got two others players we're keeping tabs on and waiting for asking prices to come down. It would be interesting to know who those players are. Probably not Fekir seeing as he's already being offered at half last summer's price.
 



fspencer

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Is Coutinho actually up for sale or been told he is,if not then he's trying all that shady shit again which is not a good look.
It's a game of brinkmanship . Barca can't afford to transfer list him and Coutinho would be stupid to request a move . It's all about the ££££. IF barca can move him out on loan, free up some of the wage bill, with an obligation to buy written into the loan , Coutinho accepts that . he will not require a massive pay off ( his contact will have run right down ).
 

Kopstar

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I've no idea what KopTalk is like as a source (let's assume less than reliable), but that scenario sounds pretty believable, that the move is being driven from Coutinho's side but we're not taking the bait at this time.

What most jumped out for me was the bit where we've got two others players we're keeping tabs on and waiting for asking prices to come down. It would be interesting to know who those players are. Probably not Fekir seeing as he's already being offered at half last summer's price.
Isn't that that prick Duncan Oldham's site? Think it's banned around these parts.

[Just seen the post you're referring to]
 

BigJon

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IF
Coutinho returns, the club will not be buying him - the debt of 88m would be likely canceled. Liverpool would not pay Barca a penny.
Barca would have spent nearly 60m on a "loan " for Coutinho for not even 2 seasons. Liverpool would make approx 60m and still own the player.

Brazil International Phillipe Coutinho. Brazil International Phillipe Coutinho.

Can anyone not see how good a deal this would be? In 2 or 3 years if he recaptures his form he could be sold again for at least another 50m - clear profit on a player that cost nothing except an initial transfer fee of 13 m? way back. Potentially 100m profit for a player who will only miss 1.5 seasons playing for Liverpool. (That's less than Sturridge) What other players could potentially make 100 m profit? Not many.

And the most important thing - he is a fantastic player.

I am no accountant but this seems like it could be a sweet deal. And it would be one in the eye for Barca again.
Or am I missing something?
There is no real difference between cancelling a debt of 88 million, and paying 88 million.
There is a huge difference.
The 88 million does not have to be financed, so no interest to pay.
It does not come from capital reserves - so no interest lost on capital.
Capital reserves can then be used for the purchase of other players or investing in the facilities.
IT does depend on how the figures stack up - something we will probably never know.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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@Jaytinho
Banned sources (posting links to them results in immediate ban):

The S*n
K*pTalk
Liverpool-k*p
AnfieldHQ

Very unreliable and unwanted sources (posters are strongly discouraged from posting their almost comical, sensationalist transfer rumours):

Don Balon
caughtoffside.com
Duncan Castles
Metro
Daily Star
Fichajes.net
Sportmediaset
Tuttomercatoweb
Calciomercato
Tribal Football
Talksport
Various sites which take money by relaying rumours from other sites or rehash old rumours - these will be added later to this page
Don Balon (I've mentioned this twice, but they're SO fucking shite, they need to be repeated)

Reliable sources include:

Liverpool Echo
The Times
The Guardian
The Telegraph
BBC

Liverpool-related journalists:
Tony Barrett
James Pearce
Paul Joyce (of The Times)
Dominic King (of Daily Mail)
Chris Bascombe (of The Telegraph)
Melissa Reddy (formerly of Goal, now with Joe.co.uk)
 

Arminius

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IF
Coutinho returns, the club will not be buying him - the debt of 88m would be likely canceled. Liverpool would not pay Barca a penny.
Barca would have spent nearly 60m on a "loan " for Coutinho for not even 2 seasons. Liverpool would make approx 60m and still own the player.

Brazil International Phillipe Coutinho. Brazil International Phillipe Coutinho.

Can anyone not see how good a deal this would be? In 2 or 3 years if he recaptures his form he could be sold again for at least another 50m - clear profit on a player that cost nothing except an initial transfer fee of 13 m? way back. Potentially 100m profit for a player who will only miss 1.5 seasons playing for Liverpool. (That's less than Sturridge) What other players could potentially make 100 m profit? Not many.

And the most important thing - he is a fantastic player.

I am no accountant but this seems like it could be a sweet deal. And it would be one in the eye for Barca again.
Or am I missing something?


There is a huge difference.
The 88 million does not have to be financed, so no interest to pay.
It does not come from capital reserves - so no interest lost on capital.
Capital reserves can then be used for the purchase of other players or investing in the facilities.
IT does depend on how the figures stack up - something we will probably never know.
Right now, LFC is due 88M in cash. If that is cancelled, any other use will need to be financed on an identical basis, there will be 88M missing from LFC's planned cash flow. The only time that there is a meaningful difference is when you were not in fact going to get paid, as for example happened with Portsmouth, who could not possibly meet their obligation. That is a non-consideration with Barcelona. From LFC's cash position, there is no real difference between buying another player for 88M with installments matching Coutinho's installments from Barca, and cancelling the 88M taking Coutinho back. In both cases, we get an 88M player upfront, with LFC's cash position identical. So the only question is, would you buy Coutinho today for 88M, or is there somewhere you could better spend 88M?

edit: I realize now you meant 'another 50M' over and above the 88M price. Not so sure about that, but a different point than the one I thought I read.

If a potential transfer target is at a club that won't do installments, there is a minor difference, but with LFC's cash levels and interest rate, that difference is minor.

Either way, LFC has already pocketed the paid portion, ~60M, so it is irrelevant to consideration of the deal today. Sure, if he recaptures his form, we could sell him on for perhaps 50M....which would mean a loss depending on amortization. The value on LFC's books tomorrow would be 88M regardless of the cash/debt nature of the deal, with the value reduced in a straight line per year of his contract. Without amortization, that would be a loss of 38M on his value. The 50M is not 'another' 50M additional, it is 50M of the 88M you have already spent.
 
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Incognito

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The other great thing from letting him come back is that he gets to tell anyone else thinking about moving that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and they have it really good at the club, with Klopp taking care of them.
Isn't that pretty evident though? No need for him to come back to tell everyone.
. Klopp insists he was very important to our press, yet some people seem to believe he wasn't.
...wanted by Klopp who has always spoken very highly of Coutinho...
While I have 100% trust in what Klopp is doing, what he says in public may not always be what he believes. He'll never criticize a player in public but will always try to up the players in media. So should be taken with a pinch of salt IMO.
 



Neukolln

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These players who go for huge money seem to get the hump when they cant be moved on at the drop of a hat.

Phil cost nearly £150m
Neymar cost £180m-ish
Pogba would go for £150m

All this money and thats without wages to think about. The selling clubs want their money back but no clubs have this kind of money. This is where football has hit a ceiling. Players have priced themselves out of moves.
Exactly right Walshy. I think about that often, wondering when that bubble was going to burst, or at the very least as you say, when the ceiling would be reached. I am reading the book The Club, about the "business" that is the Premier League and the money surrounding football and how clubs sank themselves along the way by being fiscally irresponsible on transfer fees + wages. At some point a fiscally responsible club is just unable to make these moves. There is a finite amount of money. Not every club is a pet project or real life "fantasy" team for a whimsical billionaire. It's a living, breathing business entity with profits and losses and at some point those artificial valuations are unable to be met. For sustainability, clubs have to tighten up.
 
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Limiescouse

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Rush went to Juventus right? If he wants back and he’s willing to fight for it then I’d love him back. Personally, feel he’d be exactly what we need, either in midfield against a low block or up front against top four. His free kicks, distance shooting, passing from in front of the back four as well as his pressing (@city in 16/17 for example) all suit the side.
Rush was told he was being sold because money was just too good to turn down. Back then players didn't have the same sort of power over these decisions as they have today.

I think the point is that Liverpool would not be paying 88 million - they would be canceling the debt.
It amounts to the same thing. It is money we are owed, have accounted for and would be able to spend on other things if we dont do this deal.
 

Mascot88

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What most jumped out for me was the bit where we've got two others players we're keeping tabs on and waiting for asking prices to come down.
We did this last year too. Alisson was being quoted at £90m, and we just waited it out.
 



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