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Phillippe Coutinho (LW/AM)

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redfanman

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I've no idea what KopTalk is like as a source (let's assume less than reliable), but that scenario sounds pretty believable, that the move is being driven from Coutinho's side but we're not taking the bait at this time.

What most jumped out for me was the bit where we've got two others players we're keeping tabs on and waiting for asking prices to come down. It would be interesting to know who those players are. Probably not Fekir seeing as he's already being offered at half last summer's price.
I think that is just an extension from what we think may have happened with De Ligt for example. It was clear a lot of people with ties to Ajax wanted him to come to us, and that the club had a strong interest in the player - but with the form of Matip and Gomez this year, and the sudden jump in his fee it became less feasible. Even now every headline i see of his move to Juve reads to me as a call for us to jump in and sign him
 

redfanman

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I think we all need to mentally adjust to this 'buying from a position of strength' thing, I know I do. It's all a bit new lol
I dont like this 'position of strength' argument as i am not sure it really applies to us - yet. Where does it come from, because a lot of people on poscasts are also using that phrase?

Our finances while good do not give us anywhere near the depth of many of our competitors, nor access to many of the cheaper players they can access at the moment.
 

Digger10

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The way I see it, We're in no rush to integrate a new player in our first eleven so we're taking our time to see what develops.

In previous years we might have been eager to get them in early to allow them to get settled and up and running asap but not so this year. We already have a strong starting team and just need a bit of tweaking. I reckon we have our eye on two or three possibilities and will have a basic value attached to each.

I find the flat rebuffing of the Nicolas Pepe stories a bit odd, especially in the face of such strong opposing views from French journalists so we might just be waiting for that one to run its course like we did last year with Alisson.

Still not sure what to believe on the Coutinho loan rumours - But again, does the relative radio silence from the likes of Reddy, Pearce and Joyce point to anything about this story?

It wouldn't be the end of the world if we sign nobody else but I think we all need that lift going into the season. A strong addition to complete with the front three would be my priority.

On another note, I find it odd that nobody has yet moved for Hakim Ziyech or Timo Werner.
 



LFCFFC

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I think we all need to mentally adjust to this 'buying from a position of strength' thing, I know I do. It's all a bit new lol
Pfft, soft.

The fact we haven't splashed £60m on another midfielder is an unmitigated disaster. We should just forfeit this season and go straight to the Championship.
 

Limiescouse

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I dont like this 'position of strength' argument as i am not sure it really applies to us - yet. Where does it come from, because a lot of people on poscasts are also using that phrase?

Our finances while good do not give us anywhere near the depth of many of our competitors, nor access to many of the cheaper players they can access at the moment.
If you have holes to fill you have to be a bit more reactionary and urgent. It is harder to get the correct player and the right deal under these circumstances. When you have just earned 97 points and won the CL your needs in the market are different. You can buy players who don't need to be ready immediately. You can be more patient, both within a single window and waiting for the next window with your targets.
 

Mascot88

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I guess the ‘position of strength’ thing is a reflect that we are not going to be held over a barrel.

We didn’t negotiate for Van Dijk from a position of strength. We needed him and everyone knew it. We ended up overpaying (although it doesn’t seem like it now)

If we’ve gone to Lille for Pepe and been quoted £80m we can walk away and let Lille have a think about that price again. We don’t need him. Towards the end of the window he may be available for a bit less.
 

redfanman

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If you have holes to fill you have to be a bit more reactionary and urgent. It is harder to get the correct player and the right deal under these circumstances. When you have just earned 97 points and won the CL your needs in the market are different. You can buy players who don't need to be ready immediately. You can be more patient, both within a single window and waiting for the next window with your targets.
I guess the ‘position of strength’ thing is a reflect that we are not going to be held over a barrel.

We didn’t negotiate for Van Dijk from a position of strength. We needed him and everyone knew it. We ended up overpaying (although it doesn’t seem like it now)

If we’ve gone to Lille for Pepe and been quoted £80m we can walk away and let Lille have a think about that price again. We don’t need him. Towards the end of the window he may be available for a bit less.
I understand both of these points but i still feel that talk of our strength is a bit OTT at this time (especially given the rise in prices for players). Maybe i just have my worrying hat on today.
 

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I guess the ‘position of strength’ thing is a reflect that we are not going to be held over a barrel.

We didn’t negotiate for Van Dijk from a position of strength. We needed him and everyone knew it. We ended up overpaying (although it doesn’t seem like it now)

If we’ve gone to Lille for Pepe and been quoted £80m we can walk away and let Lille have a think about that price again. We don’t need him. Towards the end of the window he may be available for a bit less.
I don't think that Klopp thinks that way, at least not this summer. We know how much he values pre-season. Getting a player in late means he'll not be available for the start of the new season. Klopp sees us in a position of strength, and it means that he has decided to not move at all, apart for a couple of young promising players who can complete our strength in depth a bit. Sepp is the only one the club have managed to get so far, and he'll maybe be followed by Harvey. That's it. I don't think that he plays a waiting game. Or if it's a waiting game, it spans until next January, or more likely, next summer.

@ubermick said that Mbappe is a genuine possibility for next summer. Maybe, I don't know about that, still think that his wage demands will be a step too high for us. But Klopp might have decided indeed that he'll keep his powder dry for one or two players who can jump into the first team right from the off. If he has to wait until next summer, so be it.

So, I don't think that we'll bring in any genuine first-teamer this summer, barring a very unlikely chain of events between now and the start of the season. Last summer, the club stretched itself very strongly to bring in expensive players. Now, it's recovery time.
 



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I think that is just an extension from what we think may have happened with De Ligt for example. It was clear a lot of people with ties to Ajax wanted him to come to us, and that the club had a strong interest in the player - but with the form of Matip and Gomez this year, and the sudden jump in his fee it became less feasible. Even now every headline i see of his move to Juve reads to me as a call for us to jump in and sign him
Yeah, I get the same impression. Like he's trying to slow everything down in a desperate attempt to give us that bit extra to say, "Oh, ok - come to us then matey" and he'll start jumping around like an excited child, "Yes, Yes, Yes! I knew it. I KNEW IT!!! Uhhh...I get to play in front of the Kop!!! I thought I was off to fucking Turin! Klopp! YEAH!!!"

It's like he's tiptoeing towards the plane...asking his agent "anyone call?"...."Jurgen, Mikey?"....then getting off the plane in Italy and he's checking his phone for reception...."Why can't I fucking get reception!!!"...."Phew, there it is....any messages?"..."Mino, you got any voicemails??"....then takes ages getting his luggage....insists on getting the rickshaw driver to take them from the airport rather than the private car sent by Juventus...gets off the rickshaw, pretends that his shoelaces need tying up again (for the sixth time since landing)...he's about to sign the Juventus contract and he says he needs the toilet...goes into the cubicle, stares at his phone....[will it??? Will Jurgen call? Please call Jurgen!!!]....sighs...

Slouches back into the room with Paratici...resigned, he sits down before the contract, picks up the pen and then suddenly his phone goes with the unmistakeable ringtone of Jurgen simply going, "BOOM!"...

A broad grin appears across De Ligt's face as he takes the call, he's already out the door, on the way back to the airport, destination....

Liverpool.

A few minutes earlier, in a hotel in central Paris, Mbappe had received the same phone call. Jurgen and Mikey were activating their sleeper agents.

I dont like this 'position of strength' argument as i am not sure it really applies to us - yet. Where does it come from, because a lot of people on poscasts are also using that phrase?

Our finances while good do not give us anywhere near the depth of many of our competitors, nor access to many of the cheaper players they can access at the moment.
I think it's more about our attractiveness right now than any financial strength. As you say, we can still not compete financially with the likes of City, United, Real...but I'd say we're the most attractive football club in the world right now (unless you're South American). That's a pretty good position of strength.

The way I see it, We're in no rush to integrate a new player in our first eleven so we're taking our time to see what develops.

In previous years we might have been eager to get them in early to allow them to get settled and up and running asap but not so this year. We already have a strong starting team and just need a bit of tweaking. I reckon we have our eye on two or three possibilities and will have a basic value attached to each.

I find the flat rebuffing of the Nicolas Pepe stories a bit odd, especially in the face of such strong opposing views from French journalists so we might just be waiting for that one to run its course like we did last year with Alisson.

Still not sure what to believe on the Coutinho loan rumours - But again, does the relative radio silence from the likes of Reddy, Pearce and Joyce point to anything about this story?

It wouldn't be the end of the world if we sign nobody else but I think we all need that lift going into the season. A strong addition to complete with the front three would be my priority.

On another note, I find it odd that nobody has yet moved for Hakim Ziyech or Timo Werner.
I think Timo Werner's been bagged by Bayern for next year hasn't he? The one I'm surprised about is Kai Havertz - hardly anything in the transfer rumours for him this season (I acknowledge that he too has been linked with a move to Bayern next year, albeit more tentatively).
 

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I don't think that Klopp thinks that way, at least not this summer. We know how much he values pre-season. Getting a player in late means he'll not be available for the start of the new season. Klopp sees us in a position of strength, and it means that he has decided to not move at all, apart for a couple of young promising players who can complete our strength in depth a bit. Sepp is the only one the club have managed to get so far, and he'll maybe be followed by Harvey. That's it. I don't think that he plays a waiting game. Or if it's a waiting game, it spans until next January, or more likely, next summer.
Pre-season is far more important if you buy with a view to playing someone immediately. If you're happy with what you've got and know new additions can be given time to find their feet the way Fab was, then the imperative to get them in early goes way down. Balancing that against maintaining our negotiating edge is reasonable.

Consider that the reputation us and Edwards have now is a bit like trust...hard to earn and can be ruined by 1 act. The second people think we went too far out to close a deal and paid over the odds, each subsequent negotiation becomes that much harder.
 

Limiescouse

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I understand both of these points but i still feel that talk of our strength is a bit OTT at this time (especially given the rise in prices for players). Maybe i just have my worrying hat on today.
It is not a statement of our financial strength, but the advantage of being able to move in the market without HAVING to address an immediate need.
 

ubermick

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If we’ve gone to Lille for Pepe and been quoted £80m we can walk away and let Lille have a think about that price again. We don’t need him. Towards the end of the window he may be available for a bit less.
It's odd. And perhaps a bit underhanded. But its happened to us so many times the last 15 or so years, I'm not overly arsed. Ergo:

Step one - Call club, inquire about player X
Step two - Laugh at ludicrously quoted price
Step three - Let it be known that we're interested in player X
Step four - Player X storms into his managers office demanding to know WTF is going on
Step five - Player X is assured that this is part of the game, if/when the right offer comes in then he'll get his move
Step six - Days/Weeks pass, player X becomes more and more agitated, and trips to the manager's office for an update are happening daily
Step seven - Mikey the Hammer Edwards gets a phone call saying "FFS come and take him, he's driving us mad."

Fly in the ointment though is the idiotic transfer window the league adopted, which slams shut three weeks ahead of the rest of Europe. (Fuck me that was stupid). So three weeks from Thursday.
 



Gone Kloppo

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I don't think that Klopp thinks that way, at least not this summer. We know how much he values pre-season. Getting a player in late means he'll not be available for the start of the new season. Klopp sees us in a position of strength, and it means that he has decided to not move at all, apart for a couple of young promising players who can complete our strength in depth a bit.
Firstly I find Klopp a straight shooter. When he says we aren't going to have any big signings I take that at face value. Anybody saying he's playing transfer market games really bring up the Allison deal as evidence, yet none of us know whether we just came in for him late when we found out his price was lower.

With that out of the way, I don't agree. Klopp has brought players in early in the window in seasons where we were light on in those positions and those purchases needed to come in hitting the ground running and play first team football straight away. Since our team has become much stronger, we've had players like Fab and Keita come in, even though they came at the start of preseason, really didn't get regular game time until half way through the season. On the other side, Alison and VVD came straight into the first team as those positions were our Achilles heel.

It's ideal that players come in early in the window, but certainly not a requirement any more with the strength of our squad. Klopp clearly values easing players in when given the choice.
 
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JibJab

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I wonder how some of you who are disinclined to sign Coutinho would feel differently if he was never a player for this club to begin with? How much of your opposition is informed by bitterness over his departure instead of his obvious skill on the pitch? If we were talking about some other player of his stature, I'm certain you'd be a lot more excited about bringing him in - as we saw with the Fekir chatter last year.

Truthfully, we won the Coutinho transfer saga. We used the proceeds of his sale to purchase two world class players that helped lead us to a European Championship - staging a legendary comeback against his club on the path towards glory. There's no need to pout about it. If he wants to come back, and Klopp will have him, we should welcome him with a smirk, a thanks for the balance of the transfer fee, and with appreciation for his no-show in the UCL Semis. :well done::D
 

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The more that I think about it, maybe Phil was in on the scam to begin with - "Hey Phil, Barca keeps trying to poach our players - I know you love playing here and would NEVER leave if you had a choice, as evidenced by your recent contract extension, but we really need to teach those Catalonians a lesson. We need you to go undercover. Do us a favor and agitate for a move there so we can sell you for a huge profit. We'll use that money to buy some defensive reinforcements, and then sign you back a year from now. Just make sure to play like crap for the next year so we can get you back at a bargain-bin price."
 

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The more that I think about it, maybe Phil was in on the scam to begin with - "Hey Phil, Barca keeps trying to poach our players - I know you love playing here and would NEVER leave if you had a choice, as evidenced by your recent contract extension, but we really need to teach those Catalonians a lesson. We need you to go undercover. Do us a favor and agitate for a move there so we can sell you for a huge profit. We'll use that money to buy some defensive reinforcements, and then sign you back a year from now. Just make sure to play like crap for the next year so we can get you back at a bargain-bin price."
The average Barca fan would believe that.

My main concern with a Coutinho deal is the fear that Barcelona have broken him mentally.
 



hoosierred

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If anyone can build back his confidence, it will be Jurgen Klopp.
His performances for Brazil in the Copa just he is just fine mentally.

I do think most of the opposition to bringing him back is rooted in anger at the way he left. That being said, we got better with the addition of Van Dijk in the same window he left. And better again last summer. So exactly how valuable he would really be for us is a very fair question to ask.
 

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The average Barca fan would believe that.

My main concern with a Coutinho deal is the fear that Barcelona have broken him mentally.
Agree, but additionally he's the wrong age profile for me. Currently all our front three are 27 and have birthdays within 6 months of each other. Coutinho would also fit into that group. That's too many attacking players hitting 30 together all within three years.

I think the club would be looking at players aged 24 or under to supplement our front three.
 

SirBillShankly

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Great on the ball but a defensive liability. He's not a Klopp player and I'm fairly certain he won't be coming back.

Time for a new chapter. A chapter called Havertz I hope.
 
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Arminius

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Barca fans seem convinced that LFC has offered to take him back on a 2-year loan, with an option to buy - that number being somewhere between 40 and 88M, and the terms of that option being the crux.

That could be interesting.

Of course, Edwards and Henry might be sitting around a conference call hitting mute and howling hysterically as they troll Barcelona.
 

liver1

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Would not want Coutinho back. For the way we play he is too slow and immobile, too much needs to revolve around him as the focal point for his game to work. Weve moved on, we dont play that way anymore.

His performances for Barcelona have been poor this season and thats another reason not to buy him.
 



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Is Coutinho actually up for sale or been told he is,if not then he's trying all that shady shit again which is not a good look.
I am speculating that he may be on the way to PSG in a deal to land Neymar, and that his agent is airing this to make interested clubs aware in case they want to bid, etc. I think he would like to stay at Barca, but recognices that he might not be a priority and that he looks at Liverpool as a possible fit etc.
 

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I am speculating that he may be on the way to PSG in a deal to land Neymar, and that his agent is airing this to make interested clubs aware in case they want to bid, etc.
A lot of people are speculating that, but the fact that Neymar just reiterated his demand for his outstanding loyalty (!!!) bonus from Barca really makes me wonder.
 

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I wonder how some of you who are disinclined to sign Coutinho would feel differently if he was never a player for this club to begin with? How much of your opposition is informed by bitterness over his departure instead of his obvious skill on the pitch? If we were talking about some other player of his stature, I'm certain you'd be a lot more excited about bringing him in - as we saw with the Fekir chatter last year.

Truthfully, we won the Coutinho transfer saga. We used the proceeds of his sale to purchase two world class players that helped lead us to a European Championship - staging a legendary comeback against his club on the path towards glory. There's no need to pout about it. If he wants to come back, and Klopp will have him, we should welcome him with a smirk, a thanks for the balance of the transfer fee, and with appreciation for his no-show in the UCL Semis. :well done::D
And on the flip side, if he was never a Liverpool player to begin with - does he fit our style, are we buying him based on form.

I didnt have a problem with Phil leaving, I understood his reasons and we could already see it coming a year or 2 back before he left.

On an objective level , with fresh eyes, and no previous history with him, I wouldnt buy him, id much rather have someone like Dembele.
 
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Gone Kloppo

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I wonder how some of you who are disinclined to sign Coutinho would feel differently if he was never a player for this club to begin with? How much of your opposition is informed by bitterness over his departure instead of his obvious skill on the pitch? If we were talking about some other player of his stature, I'm certain you'd be a lot more excited about bringing him in - as we saw with the Fekir chatter last year.
Would you take Thomas Lemar? Had a brilliant season a couple of seasons ago when Cou was last good. Plus he's younger.

Would you take Fekir? Texeira?

Do you think it's any coincidence that Klopp has never gone back in for a player he was interested in that's fallen out of form? You are basically piling on the risk when you don't know when their performances will return.

You just don't take a £50m+ risk on a player out of form. What's his mental state? Does he still have the desire after failing at his dream club? Nope. Nuts to even contemplate. This is a Woodward signing, not a Klopp one.

Steer clear for mine.
 
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Gone Kloppo

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Agree, but additionally he's the wrong age profile for me. Currently all our front three are 27 and have birthdays within 6 months of each other. Coutinho would also fit into that group. That's too many attacking players hitting 30 together all within three years.

I think the club would be looking at players aged 24 or under to supplement our front three.
I agree on the last sentence but does 4 players hitting 30 at the same time even matter? It's not like there's a battery life where they fail at the same time. I don't think it's a stretch to say the longest lasting of the front 3 will play 5 more years than the shortest lasting.
 



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