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Phillippe Coutinho (LW/AM)

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Gone Kloppo

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I wonder how some of you who are disinclined to sign Coutinho would feel differently if he was never a player for this club to begin with? How much of your opposition is informed by bitterness over his departure instead of his obvious skill on the pitch? If we were talking about some other player of his stature, I'm certain you'd be a lot more excited about bringing him in - as we saw with the Fekir chatter last year.
Would you take Thomas Lemar? Had a brilliant season a couple of seasons ago when Cou was last good. Plus he's younger.

Would you take Fekir? Texeira?

Do you think it's any coincidence that Klopp has never gone back in for a player he was interested in that's fallen out of form? You are basically piling on the risk when you don't know when their performances will return.

You just don't take a £50m+ risk on a player out of form. What's his mental state? Does he still have the desire after failing at his dream club? Nope. Nuts to even contemplate. This is a Woodward signing, not a Klopp one.

Steer clear for mine.
 
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Gone Kloppo

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Agree, but additionally he's the wrong age profile for me. Currently all our front three are 27 and have birthdays within 6 months of each other. Coutinho would also fit into that group. That's too many attacking players hitting 30 together all within three years.

I think the club would be looking at players aged 24 or under to supplement our front three.
I agree on the last sentence but does 4 players hitting 30 at the same time even matter? It's not like there's a battery life where they fail at the same time. I don't think it's a stretch to say the longest lasting of the front 3 will play 5 more years than the shortest lasting.
 

Red over the water

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What's with the hatred for K*ptalk
Many years ago when I first started an interest in looking at Liverpool sites I did a spell on Koptalk. I was just an innocent fan who loved the reds and didn't know any better. The PR of Duncan Oldham always seemed to exaggerate the news, and it was often something that was available elsewhere anyway. I think the internet may have been a bit less sophisticated back then too, so the concept of someone who said they were an ITK seemed alluring. Seems very naive now, I know.

During the time I was on there he wrote a book called "Anfield Exposed." (I think that's what it was called, anyhow). Lots of people prepaid (I did not, but many did) and from memory the publication always seemed to be delayed. I never knew if the book ever came out or not because I left, as it all started to seem a bit fishy to me.

I can't remember many details these days, but I think the owner of the site would sometimes boast about his lifestyle or possessions, and at the same time there always seemed to be money-making schemes or pleas for support for the site and so on. It seemed incongruous to me. I'm glad to have discovered other Liverpool sites since then, and about a year ago I found this place, which is very good.
 

Pins88

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Many years ago when I first started an interest in looking at Liverpool sites I did a spell on Koptalk. I was just an innocent fan who loved the reds and didn't know any better. The PR of Duncan Oldham always seemed to exaggerate the news, and it was often something that was available elsewhere anyway. I think the internet may have been a bit less sophisticated back then too, so the concept of someone who said they were an ITK seemed alluring. Seems very naive now, I know.

During the time I was on there he wrote a book called "Anfield Exposed." (I think that's what it was called, anyhow). Lots of people prepaid (I did not, but many did) and from memory the publication always seemed to be delayed. I never knew if the book ever came out or not because I left, as it all started to seem a bit fishy to me.

I can't remember many details these days, but I think the owner of the site would sometimes boast about his lifestyle or possessions, and at the same time there always seemed to be money-making schemes or pleas for support for the site and so on. It seemed incongruous to me. I'm glad to have discovered other Liverpool sites since then, and about a year ago I found this place, which is very good.
Fair enough. I've never really paid attention to them really but I know my mate bangs on about them and I just wondering why they were a band source.

IMO theres no such thing as a ITN. It's all guess work.

Cheers for the reply anyway.
 

JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
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Would you take Thomas Lemar? Had a brilliant season a couple of seasons ago when Cou was last good. Plus he's younger.

Would you take Fekir? Texeira?

Do you think it's any coincidence that Klopp has never gone back in for a player he was interested in that's fallen out of form? You are basically piling on the risk when you don't know when their performances will return.

You just don't take a £50m+ risk on a player out of form. What's his mental state? Does he still have the desire after failing at his dream club? Nope. Nuts to even contemplate. This is a Woodward signing, not a Klopp one.

Steer clear for mine.
I'm fine if people don't want Coutinho because of concerns about his ability going forward - reasonable minds can argue about that. But I feel quite strongly that some people here are more upset that he spurned us for Barca than they are concerned about his form - and to them I say shove your pride in a bin and do what's best for the club - and if Klopp believes that's signing Coutinho, then I'm on board 100%. He's going to have to shelve some pride to come back, and we're going to have to swallow some pride to bring him back. If we win more trophies with him, it'll all be worth it.

As to those other sagas- I don't agree with your characterizations of those situations.

First of all, none of those players are on the same level of Coutinho.
Second of all, Klopp KNOWS Phil and has seen him play at a high level here, so there isn't much doubt about his capacity to fit in if he's motivated to do so.
Third of all, Klopp's decision not to go back in for Fekir was informed by injury, not form. Lemar fell out of form after being sold to Atleti. Texeira fell off the wayside after being sent to China. Klopp didn't decide to walk away from them due to concerns about form - those decisions were effectively made for him by other circumstances - whether it was fees that were too high (Texeira/Lemar) or injury (Fekir).
 



Walshy07

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I’d like him back. Can’t have too many top class players.
Will it happen? I don’t think so. He ends PSG as part of the Neymar deal.
 

scouseheadross

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I’d like him back. Can’t have too many top class players.
Will it happen? I don’t think so. He ends PSG as part of the Neymar deal.
And Barca are trying to drum up fake interest to try and set his part exchange value at pffff, heehee, £140m.

Did Neymar cost £220m? Think PSG said Barca could have him back for that much. Can't see it but Neymar on strike pretty much. Gotta px Coutinho or Dembele to get it to happen, surely?
 

Commando

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I strongly doubt that this will happen, but it would be glorious if we could sell him for 140m and buy him back for half that 18 months later.
It’d be like the Pogba, Man U to Juve to Man U deal but done the right way.
 

South American Red

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For me it all depends on which Coutinho we get, the one who was a brilliant player next to Suarez and Sterling or the one who was or best weapon in the semifinals against Barce.

The first, yes please. The second, let him stay there, he could do a great job if luck allows ;)
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
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Did Neymar cost £220m? Think PSG said Barca could have him back for that much. Can't see it but Neymar on strike pretty much. Gotta px Coutinho or Dembele to get it to happen, surely?
Except that PSG have rejected a cash + coutinho + dembele offer for neymar
 



Tokyo_Red

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Well, I don’t really think we need him, just that we need a player capable of adding creativity to our midfield and flexible enough to fit in the front three. Can you tell me an alternative that has proven pedigree?
 

MassRed

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Phil is often quite good in the City matches. That alone could be the difference in the title race this year.
 



Mark Thurgood

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I hated the way he left the club, I love the fact we knocked them out of Europe. It just made me laugh so much after I celebrated with ultimate joy.

Honestly would he improve us?.....class is always there it doesn’t just disappear, but look what happened to Torres after he left us.

Do we need him?.....don’t think so, there are quality players going a little cheaper also we have some youth to bring through also.

And where would he fit in?......no idea.

We have Ox back this year, also Jones like a decent kid. But I’m sure Klopp is weighing is other avenues first.
 

Foldy

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And on the flip side, if he was never a Liverpool player to begin with - does he fit our style, are we buying him based on form.

I didnt have a problem with Phil leaving, I understood his reasons and we could already see it coming a year or 2 back before he left.

On an objective level , with fresh eyes, and no previous history with him, I wouldnt buy him, id much rather have someone like Dembele.
He never bought into Klopp's vision when other players did. On another note when you see players like Salah, Mane and Firmino running their bollocks off to get back and defend, you ask yourself would Coutinho do that if he came back when he wasn't doing it under Klopp when he was here before? His ego would never fit into a dressing room that has Salah, one of the greatest players in the world, who is as humble a guy as you would ever want to meet. Milner and Hendo looking at Coutinho when we're defending a counter and he's jogging back, no, we've moved on. Its that team spirit and belief that Klopp has built that got us that sixth CL cup. The best thing we did to aid that was to sell Coutinho.
 

Koon

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Like I said a few times already, world class player who's being very poorly used by Valverde, but Klopp will never accept back based on his work ethic. Coutinho could have waited 6 more months and then leave Liverpool still having a chance of coming back to the club in the future, but after faking injury, asking to leave, not showing up for training and things like that, there's no way Klopp would accept him back, imo.

There are many other options like Eriksen, Aouar, James Maddison, Isco and even the ones I'm not very fond of but could fit Klopp's system like Ceballos or Lo Celso.

There are many reasons why I don't think we will ever see Coutinho back:
- The way he left
- Price tag
- Age
- This season I doubt we are buying a number 8/10 (maybe not even a winger)
- I think we have another type of profile, a younger and potentially world class player (21~24 year old, not very expensive).
 

Jaytinho

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Many years ago when I first started an interest in looking at Liverpool sites I did a spell on Koptalk. I was just an innocent fan who loved the reds and didn't know any better. The PR of Duncan Oldham always seemed to exaggerate the news, and it was often something that was available elsewhere anyway. I think the internet may have been a bit less sophisticated back then too, so the concept of someone who said they were an ITK seemed alluring. Seems very naive now, I know.

During the time I was on there he wrote a book called "Anfield Exposed." (I think that's what it was called, anyhow). Lots of people prepaid (I did not, but many did) and from memory the publication always seemed to be delayed. I never knew if the book ever came out or not because I left, as it all started to seem a bit fishy to me.

I can't remember many details these days, but I think the owner of the site would sometimes boast about his lifestyle or possessions, and at the same time there always seemed to be money-making schemes or pleas for support for the site and so on. It seemed incongruous to me. I'm glad to have discovered other Liverpool sites since then, and about a year ago I found this place, which is very good.
Thank you for this, always thought Dunk was a proper dude. Oh well, lesson learned
 



Jaytinho

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Ive really grown to not give a shit about Coutinho since the whole Barca fiasco, but lets be real here guys, Coutinho was a ridiculously good under Klopp. That freedom to roam behind the forwards and blast long range bangers or thread balls through. That freedom to join the front 3 and cut in on that right foot, he basically was the heart of our attack. And even though our current style is not based on a focal point anymore, having Coutinho in a free role in and around Bobby, Mane and Salah is mouth watering. He was unplayable in that 16/17 season. BUT, if the financial part of the transfer does not look appetizing to Klopp, as well as the all important question of team morale, then fuck him, he can rot in the Barca reserves.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Taking history out of the equation (which you can't really do, but for this exercise), do you think the club would be interested in a 27 yr old who would command very high wages who has been out of form for 18 months?

Looking at price tag (mostly at wages here), form, and age, I'm not sure we'd be all that interested. There's gotta be better value (even if it's only long term value by getting someone younger who could earn a second contract) out there.

All that said, it's hard to ignore history. He was great while he was here. But I do feel the team has progressed past how we used to play with him in the team. He'd be a great option to bring off the bench and occasionally rest one of the front 3, but can't see someone his age and with the wages he'd get being happy with that role.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Taking history out of the equation (which you can't really do, but for this exercise), do you think the club would be interested in a 27 yr old who would command very high wages who has been out of form for 18 months?

Looking at price tag (mostly at wages here), form, and age, I'm not sure we'd be all that interested. There's gotta be better value (even if it's only long term value by getting someone younger who could earn a second contract) out there.

All that said, it's hard to ignore history. He was great while he was here. But I do feel the team has progressed past how we used to play with him in the team. He'd be a great option to bring off the bench and occasionally rest one of the front 3, but can't see someone his age and with the wages he'd get being happy with that role.
The wages are certainly a factor - I think the age only really becomes a factor though if we're looking at a two-year loan then permanent deal, because while a large fee for a 27yo is ok, for a 29yo that becomes problematic.

It's obviously not my call to make, but I don't think the form part of that would necessarily be a deal-breaker. In fact, the owners' approach of looking for value and currently underrated talent means a £140m player currently priced at around half that looks like the sort of deal they would entertain. The main question really is over whether the scouting team feel his form for the past 18 months is a blip we could turn around and restore him to the level that saw him go for £140m, or if it's likely to remain the norm from here on in.
 

redfanman

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In fact, the owners' approach of looking for value and currently underrated talent means a £140m player currently priced at around half that looks like the sort of deal they would entertain. The main question really is over whether the scouting team feel his form for the past 18 months is a blip we could turn around and restore him to the level that saw him go for £140m, or if it's likely to remain the norm from here on in.
I totally agree. The one thing i would flag though is if he really was a £140m value player. We know there was a premium added due to the circumstances of the deal happening. What we might see now is like that in shops where they advertise a product at a very high price with the intention of selling it at a more accurate market price during a 'sale' period.

In other words, is Coutinho really an £80m player that we would usually expect to buy at £60m in such circumstances for example?
 

Arminius

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The wages are certainly a factor - I think the age only really becomes a factor though if we're looking at a two-year loan then permanent deal, because while a large fee for a 27yo is ok, for a 29yo that becomes problematic.

It's obviously not my call to make, but I don't think the form part of that would necessarily be a deal-breaker. In fact, the owners' approach of looking for value and currently underrated talent means a £140m player currently priced at around half that looks like the sort of deal they would entertain. The main question really is over whether the scouting team feel his form for the past 18 months is a blip we could turn around and restore him to the level that saw him go for £140m, or if it's likely to remain the norm from here on in.
I think the other issue there is whether he is a £140M player at all. Barcelona paid that for him, so at one level he is, but I would be shocked if the valuation model the club uses puts anywhere close to that kind of number on him. In fact, the club might not value him at 70M. That would approach the club's record transfers of VvD and Allison.

edit: redfanman beat me to the punch.
 



Big_Doogs

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I've no idea what KopTalk is like as a source (let's assume less than reliable), but that scenario sounds pretty believable, that the move is being driven from Coutinho's side but we're not taking the bait at this time.

What most jumped out for me was the bit where we've got two others players we're keeping tabs on and waiting for asking prices to come down. It would be interesting to know who those players are. Probably not Fekir seeing as he's already being offered at half last summer's price.
Allegedly a fair assumption. I once made the mistake of paying for ‘insider’ membership, before I knew better. In my defence it was very early days of internet fan sites 20+ years ago. There ended up being quite a backlash as many felt the whole site was little more than a scam, claiming exclusives on stories that others had broken and being a very early example of expert click bait. So perhaps worth reading:

https://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/
I think this is a former employee (obviously disgruntled) and it’s a while since it was updated. It certainly fitted in with what I felt about things.

However as Koptalk still do a pay for vip service I wanted to share. I forget what I paid for way back 20 years ago, but I regretted whatever amount it was. I see they are still claiming former directors and owners have been members, that was something they hinted at 20 years ago but I never believed it. I’d even read claims that the proprietor isn’t even a Liverpool fan. How true all this is I don’t know, but buyer be aware.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Player values are quite nebulous things so I don't really feel qualified to argue a particular position on this one. I think for the way he was playing for the 18 months prior to the sale he wasn't worth any less than someone like Dembele... but then was Dembele worth what they paid? It all gets a bit relative.

My point really was that his Barca form wouldn't be enough to put us off, because by massively reducing his current value that's the sort of situation you could see us at least taking a solid look at.
 

Noo Noo

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According to L'Equipe Coutinho was offered to PSG along with Rakotic and £40m in return for Neymar.

I was rejected.
 

WooltonRed

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Personally, I think we should be strengthening other positions in the squad, rather than bringing Coutinho back. We need another experienced striker and left back as a minimum requirement this summer. Unfortunately at he moment, this doesn’t look likely to happen. With the extra football to be played next season, I don’t think the squad has the necessary experienced depth to cope.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Player values are quite nebulous things so I don't really feel qualified to argue a particular position on this one. I think for the way he was playing for the 18 months prior to the sale he wasn't worth any less than someone like Dembele... but then was Dembele worth what they paid? It all gets a bit relative.

My point really was that his Barca form wouldn't be enough to put us off, because by massively reducing his current value that's the sort of situation you could see us at least taking a solid look at.
My guess is if you're going to build the team to function around him, he'd be worth 140. But as was the case with Barca, and now with how our current team is constructed, the team won't be built around his strengths, so I'm not sure he's worth half that. Klopp seems to favor mids who have industry, they're the engine of the team, they work hard, cover a ton of ground, and seems to favor mids who combine both industry and a bit of strength to their game. His wide players he wants blistering pace and directness. Coutinho doesn't really fit either.

He used Countinho while he was here shaping the squad, but now that we have players who more suit how Klopp sets the team up to play, I'm not sure he's worth whatever it would take to buy him. At some point he'd probably be worth taking (40 mil or so?) and using, as he's still a great player, but that's probably laughably short of what Barca would accept and it would make more sense to buy players more suited to how we go about business now. The value and the fit just don't seem to overlap.
 



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