POST MATCH: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (EPL 3/11/18 5.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 6 4.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 89 60.1%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 15 10.1%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [GOAL 61’]

    Votes: 21 14.2%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Salah [off 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Firmino [off 80’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shaqiri [on 80’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Matip [on 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

Mascot88

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And are we seriousy claiming that Klopp is actively not looking to pile the goals on against vulnerable opposition this season because that’s no longer the way we play? Seriously?

I agree by what you say and agree that part of being more mature is to not afford being caught out easily, and regarding Southampton, I think thats what Klopp thought of during the game. However, that time we had Chelsea twice, Napoli and City to play.
If circumstances and fixtures were different, I'd rather see us destroy Cardiff and Southampton, and be reserved against team that could actually hurt us.
All things being equal, then yeah. Make hay while the sun shines.

Except, I suspect it isn’t this easy to turn on and off. It isn’t a slider in footy manager. And when we’re running at two games a week Klopp has very little time at Melwood to prepare his players for his games.
 

sgs

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This is completely wrong.

We’ve dropped six points out of 33. We’re unbeaten in the league. We’ve only conceded 5 goals.

We’re currently going at a rate that will result in a 94 point finish. Only twice in the Premier League era has that not been enough for the title - last year, and when Chelsea ran off with it Jose’s first year.

This is title form whichever way you look at it. That we’ve pulled together the best squad we’ve had since 1990 at the same time as City’s corruption of the league is unfortunate, but we shouldn’t let that stop us apppauding the performance so far.

Let’s just take care of our own business and aim for a mid ninety point finish. See where that leaves us.

Except that title form is seasonal and changes from one to the other.

In any case, for me the real issue is the lack of ruthlessness, which in part is underscored by the acceptance that 'as long as we are doing better than last season, or any other season'...

And the passive acceptance of poor refereeing decisions; failure to call out the lack of protection for some of our key players..

Heck, even Roy is calling for more protection for the serial diver Wilfred Zaha!
 

FGred

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This is completely wrong.

We’ve dropped six points out of 33. We’re unbeaten in the league. We’ve only conceded 5 goals.

We’re currently going at a rate that will result in a 94 point finish. Only twice in the Premier League era has that not been enough for the title - last year, and when Chelsea ran off with it Jose’s first year.

This is title form whichever way you look at it. That we’ve pulled together the best squad we’ve had since 1990 at the same time as City’s corruption of the league is unfortunate, but we shouldn’t let that stop us apppauding the performance so far.

Let’s just take care of our own business and aim for a mid ninety point finish. See where that leaves us.
If we don’t drop anymore points the total is 108 points come mid-may so what you are saying we might drop another 14 points and still be able to finish top?
 

RedLar

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Occurs to me also that our last pre cl match was also something of a low key event. At least, that is my recollection.

Could it be Klopp is telling his squad that the physical outlay to gain points has to be kept to a minimum. To reign in some of the press we became accustomed to seeing, in order to keep a little extra for what will again prove to be another long campaign. I wonder.

In other words, it's not who is there at the beginning, it's who has the legs at the end. It's a possibility.

From that point of view, against a side that was clearly in control, then an excellent earned point, and the decision on Marip makes more sense too, regardless what I think of Matip individually.
 

Sweeting

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It is kind of sad that we have reached a point where we cannot even enjoy being an unbeaten team after the fixtures we have played. Any other year and this start would have everyone calling for Klopp to be given a lifetime contract. Now we go away to a top 4/6 club and draw and people are on the verge of killing themselves.
 

ubermick

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It's not so much the results or the points totals though. I'm enjoying it, I think we're doing bloody well, but I sort of miss the bezerker style of football being abandoned in lieu of this pragmatic approach. I understand the NEED for that, but I think we talked about it on match day - there are still times where the high tempo/press is justifiably the right way to go, and I think Saturday's game was the ideal candidate.

Arsenal have been KNOWN to start their matches on the back foot, and rather than coming out swinging it felt like we let them get their feet and build confidence. Granted we didn't get the rub of the green at all - two posts and a wrongly disallowed goal in the first half - but still felt that despite their unbeaten run that Arsenal were there for the taking and we let them off the hook by being too careful.

I dunno. We most certainly needed to shore up the back and stop leaking, but in the process I can't help but feel a bit like we've sold our soul a little bit.
 

Gone Kloppo

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It's not so much the results or the points totals though. I'm enjoying it, I think we're doing bloody well, but I sort of miss the bezerker style of football being abandoned in lieu of this pragmatic approach. I understand the NEED for that, but I think we talked about it on match day - there are still times where the high tempo/press is justifiably the right way to go, and I think Saturday's game was the ideal candidate.

Arsenal have been KNOWN to start their matches on the back foot, and rather than coming out swinging it felt like we let them get their feet and build confidence. Granted we didn't get the rub of the green at all - two posts and a wrongly disallowed goal in the first half - but still felt that despite their unbeaten run that Arsenal were there for the taking and we let them off the hook by being too careful.

I dunno. We most certainly needed to shore up the back and stop leaking, but in the process I can't help but feel a bit like we've sold our soul a little bit.
My only comment to that would be whether there is actual hard evidence that we are creating less chances with or current style of play. As you say we are playing slower football, and thats probably to the detriment to players like Bobby, but I think 90% of our scoring problems this season, if in fact there are any, are around us not finishing chances. Last time I checked the stats, Mane and Salah at least were statistically better than last season. Maybe not with the conversion ratio stat though lol.
 

Mascot88

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It's not so much the results or the points totals though. I'm enjoying it, I think we're doing bloody well, but I sort of miss the bezerker style of football being abandoned in lieu of this pragmatic approach. I understand the NEED for that, but I think we talked about it on match day - there are still times where the high tempo/press is justifiably the right way to go, and I think Saturday's game was the ideal candidate.

Arsenal have been KNOWN to start their matches on the back foot, and rather than coming out swinging it felt like we let them get their feet and build confidence. Granted we didn't get the rub of the green at all - two posts and a wrongly disallowed goal in the first half - but still felt that despite their unbeaten run that Arsenal were there for the taking and we let them off the hook by being too careful.

I dunno. We most certainly needed to shore up the back and stop leaking, but in the process I can't help but feel a bit like we've sold our soul a little bit.
My biggest enjoyment this year has been watching Virgil conduct that backline like they are his orchestra.
 

Hope in your heart

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It's not so much the results or the points totals though. I'm enjoying it, I think we're doing bloody well, but I sort of miss the bezerker style of football being abandoned in lieu of this pragmatic approach. I understand the NEED for that, but I think we talked about it on match day - there are still times where the high tempo/press is justifiably the right way to go, and I think Saturday's game was the ideal candidate.

Arsenal have been KNOWN to start their matches on the back foot, and rather than coming out swinging it felt like we let them get their feet and build confidence. Granted we didn't get the rub of the green at all - two posts and a wrongly disallowed goal in the first half - but still felt that despite their unbeaten run that Arsenal were there for the taking and we let them off the hook by being too careful.

I dunno. We most certainly needed to shore up the back and stop leaking, but in the process I can't help but feel a bit like we've sold our soul a little bit.
It's all about the balance. We haven't yet found it, between full-throttle attack and 'focus on defence first', but I'm fairly confident that we'll get there eventually. It's hard also to get it when you have to play so many top teams in such a short time.

At some point in the season, we'll get a run against slightly less talented teams, and that's where Salah and co. will find their full mojo back. We saw glimpses of it against Red Star and Cardiff. It wasn't perfect yet, but already much better than Huddersfield for instance.

The right balance will come for us, I'm fairly confident of it. It's only a matter of time! :-)
 

Caradoc

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It's all about the balance. We haven't yet found it, between full-throttle attack and 'focus on defence first', but I'm fairly confident that we'll get there eventually. It's hard also to get it when you have to play so many top teams in such a short time.

At some point in the season, we'll get a run against slightly less talented teams, and that's where Salah and co. will find their full mojo back. We saw glimpses of it against Red Star and Cardiff. It wasn't perfect yet, but already much better than Huddersfield for instance.

The right balance will come for us, I'm fairly confident of it. Last season, Maribor were among those who helped us to find it. Let's see whom it will be this time around! :-)

Absolutely spot on ........ !
 

ubermick

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My biggest enjoyment this year has been watching Virgil conduct that backline like they are his orchestra.
That's fair enough. From the season comparison thread, at this point of the season we're 4 points better off than we were last year while only conceding a third of the goals (5 vs 15). That said, so far (in the league) we've knocked in 21, versus 27 last year. (And that's not taking into consideration the scorefests we enjoyed in the Champions League group section.)

The upcoming two matches - Red Star and Fulham - should give the front three an opportunity to find some space and confidence. I know @Gone Kloppo referenced Salah and Mane being a bit better than they were last year statistically (I know Mane is, dunno about Salah) but the one I'm worried about is Bobby. The change in formation/approach seems to have massively hampered his game.
 

Arminius

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That's fair enough. From the season comparison thread, at this point of the season we're 4 points better off than we were last year while only conceding a third of the goals (5 vs 15). That said, so far (in the league) we've knocked in 21, versus 27 last year. (And that's not taking into consideration the scorefests we enjoyed in the Champions League group section.)
That is in its own way a frustrating statistic. Just two goals have cost us 4 points, we have dropped 6 points on just 4 goals. Last year, we gave away 9 of those 10 goals in two big matches, but we had also managed to soak up 3 goals versus Watford by matching them. This year, the attack just has not managed to turn around one of those games or neutralized many goals allowed. We now appear to have the defence we have been craving, now the attack is off.
 

Limiescouse

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My only comment to that would be whether there is actual hard evidence that we are creating less chances with or current style of play. As you say we are playing slower football, and thats probably to the detriment to players like Bobby, but I think 90% of our scoring problems this season, if in fact there are any, are around us not finishing chances. Last time I checked the stats, Mane and Salah at least were statistically better than last season. Maybe not with the conversion ratio stat though lol.
This time last year the consensus on here was that Salah's arrival had broken Mane and we needed to go into the market to replace the Senegalese such was his "poor form"

There is a sports journo over here who likes the saying, "the other team's coaches can study the tape as well", and I think that is just something "we" overlook. We're a team that developed a reputation for playing good attacking football, but the other team is allowed to try and stop us, have coaches that might actually know what they are doing. And, most unfair of all, might actually some good players of their own!!! When faced with a situation like that or just a genuine difficult day we judge that against our past best days rather than the average one
 

Noo Noo

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I will bring to mind the two pens we got in the first match against red star Belgrade at Anfield. Plus, the decision to award a pen to Roma against Milner in last years CL at Anfield. Each decision affected us, and each was really poor in my opinion. European refs for both.

Point is, poor decision making is not the purview of English referees, it's rather symptomatic of a sport in which most of its officiating is handled by men who have rarely kicked a competitive ball themselves, and (guessing here) are likely paid less than 100th the amount of some of the players. Not that this is wrong in itself, but the point stands, poor officialdom is not monopolized in England.

I actually found myself applauding and laughing the same time, at the young English ref who sent off Buffoon in last years CL semi final. Correct decision for the pen. Correct to send off Buffoon. Totally kept his bottle. Unlike Buffoon.

In the end with refs and decisions, you win some and you lose some. Even with VAR, you are going to win some, and lose some.

And yes, Buffoon is intentionally spelled wrong......
Yes I thought both penalties were fortunate at best. I'd have been pretty peeved if that had happened against us.

I agree it all swings in roundabouts. As we've seen VAR isn't the magic wand to solve the issue either.
 

LeoT

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We missed Hendo in this match, I suspect a midfield 3 of "Gini - Hendo - Milner" would have been enough for us to have won the game.

Though a draw against a team unbeaten in 11 games is not a bad result.
 

geebo

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Its a long season, a marathon race. If we can get max points early on and at the same time save a bit of energy then great ! we may need the top gear more often in the latter parts of the season.
 

Mascot88

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Its a long season, a marathon race. If we can get max points early on and at the same time save a bit of energy then great ! we may need the top gear more often in the latter parts of the season.
I just listened to the review show on the Anfield Wrap, and they made a similar point.

The really interesting thing that they discussed was Klopp’s worst season - the one where he was bottom of the Bundesliga - came of the back of a World Cup. I remember he got absolutely shafted by injuries, and although they rallied in the second half of the season, they looked fucked up to the winter break.

Klopp is known for fast, aggressive, intense footy. His last experience of a post World Cup season was that he knacked his players. Could the restraining the intensity be Klopp trying to the manage his players through a fitness lull and avoid injuries? I think there could be something in that.