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POST MATCH: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (EPL 3/11/18 5.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 6 4.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 89 60.1%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 15 10.1%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [GOAL 61’]

    Votes: 21 14.2%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Salah [off 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Firmino [off 80’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shaqiri [on 80’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Matip [on 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

Dane

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Excellent record, true. Points away from City and Arsenal, in a tough schedule is fantastic. Would have took that in a heartbeat if offered before the season's start.

Issue is, we look very disjointed, and it isn't a one off game. It doesn't come easier than Cardiff, and we had to deal with being by a goal. We used to annihilate Cardiff-esque teams with minimal performance, yet now we aren't ticking. The midfield is on a different page than our front three, and no proper delivery to let them work their magic. Mane dropping to wing back position to receive the ball, and Salah regularly fighting against a hulking CB to get at the end of a repeated long ball which is reminiscent of Hughes' Stoke City.

I very happy we are grinding results with sturdy defense, but we also need our attack to step up. Not asking to be like last season, but at least we need to take our chances and play with the fluidity we know we can offer since Klopp came in.
I genuinely couldn't give a toss if we were to win the next 27 league games in scrappy 1-0 wins.
Some people would find reason to whine about it though.
 

eng.amohd

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I genuinely couldn't give a toss if we were to win the next 27 games in scrappy 1-0 wins.
Some people would find reason to whine about it though.
I would happily accept that too, but on merit of what I have been watching, we will sooner or later fall to, rather than win, scrappy 1-0 defeats.
 

Dane

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I would happily accept that too, but on merit of what I have been watching, we will sooner or later fall to, rather than win, scrappy 1-0 defeats.
Then we'll agree to disagree.
I'm just not seeing problems to the extent where I'm concerned.
We finished comfortable winners against Cardiff, and never looked like losing away to Arsenal.
 

eng.amohd

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Then we'll agree to disagree.
I'm just not seeing problems to the extent where I'm concerned.
We finished comfortable winners against Cardiff, and never looked like losing away to Arsenal.
The problems aren't serious, I agree, but problems a UCL finalist and a genuine PL contender shouldn't have. At the very least, we need to finish our chances better. We are miles behind last season in that respect.

However, I share your sentiment, I would be very happy with 38 scrappy 1-0 wins.
 

YeGra

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City got lucky facing this team away on the very first game of the season. This Arsenal team have changed dramatically. The fact Xhaka proved are more effective harrier of the ball than our midfield summed it up.

I'm not negative about a draw away to a tough team. But with the top teams being so strong, it's a massive two points dropped in the title race.
 
C

Caradoc

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I find the notion that we have ‘dropped’ points in tough fixtures like this quite absurd.

Too many posters have quite ridiculous expectations. We are where we are. You can point the finger all you like but the bottom line is we don’t have a God given right to win every match. We are still unbeaten in the EPL and the 3 draws have come against our immediate rivals for the Title/a top 4 place, 2 of them away from home. If City are taking more points than us that’s the way it is. Its not a reason to slag our own side off, directly or indirectly.

But what’s the point in repeating this ....... ? Everyone knows this already but that doesn’t stop the finger pointing and whinging! Its becoming an obession for some.
 
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Walshy07

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I’m a bit worried about Fabinho. arsenal knew he was the weak link and bullied him out the game.
 

gasband

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Excellent record, true. Points away from City and Arsenal, in a tough schedule is fantastic. Would have took that in a heartbeat if offered before the season's start.

Issue is, we look very disjointed, and it isn't a one off game. It doesn't come easier than Cardiff, and we had to deal with being by a goal. We used to annihilate Cardiff-esque teams with minimal performance, yet now we aren't ticking. The midfield is on a different page than our front three, and no proper delivery to let them work their magic. Mane dropping to wing back position to receive the ball, and Salah regularly fighting against a hulking CB to get at the end of a repeated long ball which is reminiscent of Hughes' Stoke City.

I very happy we are grinding results with sturdy defense, but we also need our attack to step up. Not asking to be like last season, but at least we need to take our chances and play with the fluidity we know we can offer since Klopp came in.
We used to annihilate Cardiff like kind of teams but we also use to in the same season of annihilating teams, went up 3-1 and then lose to Bournemouth 4-3 in the last 15 minutes.

You are right, the performances this season had not been exhilarating and Klopp addressed that by saying that they are looking for balance. Could they have been tight at the back and still give exhilarating performance up front? We could but getting the balance is priority now. Do we want to win the title? If yes, then we got to find balance and not just overwhelm teams with fast paced leads and then lose 4-3 within 15 minutes. There was a star that says in the 2 years after Klopp took over we lost 41 points from winning positions. Klopp I am sure would love to continue the heavy metal style but he also understands to win the league, its consistency over 38 games and not feel good for one and bad the next. We might get better but the priority is to get the team used to playing in a balanced way.

And its not like we are Big Sam kind boring team, last night 1-1 could easily have been 10-10.

The future is bright but we got to see the vision Klopp has.
 

Walshy07

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I find the notion that we have ‘dropped’ points in tough fixtures like this quite absurd.

Too many posters have quite ridiculous expectations. We are where we are. You can point the finger all you like but the bottom line is we don’t have a God given right to win every match. We are still unbeaten in the EPL and the 3 draws have come against our immediate rivals for the Title/a top 4 place, 2 of them away from home. If City are taking more points than us that’s the way it is. Its not a reason to slag our own side off, directly or indirectly.

But what’s the point in repeating this ....... ? Everyone knows this already but that doesn’t stop the finger pointing and whinging! Its becoming an addiction for some.
Agree. I don’t see it as 2 points dropped I see it as a very good point away to an in form top team.
We can’t win every game we play. That’s impossible.
I’m more with disappointed with how we are playing. We aren’t pressing and we seem sluggish. Lots of players haven’t got going yet.
Is this a plan from klopp to play within ourselves so we can go full pelt in the last 10 games? Maybe.
City will drop points soon. They have Manx derby soon as well.
 

Dane

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The problems aren't serious, I agree, but problems a UCL finalist and a genuine PL contender shouldn't have. At the very least, we need to finish our chances better. We are miles behind last season in that respect.

However, I share your sentiment, I would be very happy with 38 scrappy 1-0 wins.
In the stats that count, we are absolutely not miles behind last season though.
We've scored the same amount of goals, conceded 12 less, and are 8 points better off.
 

geebo

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You know Liverpool are a top team, when the only way we dont win is because of a wonder strike against the run of play and a wrong off side goal decision. In the end when you are a good team, its poor decisions and bad luck that cost you games

Has anyone else noticed the similarity between Emery and dracula ?? Here he is talking about Özil ....
 

Commando

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You know Liverpool are a top team, when the only way we dont win is because of a wonder strike against the run of play and a wrong off side goal decision. In the end when you are a good team, its poor decisions and bad luck that cost you games

Has anyone else noticed the similarity between Emery and dracula ?? Here he is talking about Özil ....
Very good. Although I would liken him more to one of the low level mobster types in Goodfellas. Or maybe one of Fat Tony's goons in The Simpsons.
 

eng.amohd

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In the stats that count, we are absolutely not miles behind last season though.
We've scored the same amount of goals, conceded 12 less, and are 8 points better off.
Place them in context my dear fellow...

According to premier league website and official Liverpool FC website:
  • last season we created 78 big chances in 38 games (avg 2.5 chances per game) scoring 2.21 goals per game with 58 assists (avg 1.526 per game)
  • this season we created 18 big chances in 11 games (avg 1.6 chances per game) scoring 1.91 goals per game with 12 assists (avg 1.091 per game)

We are obviously creating less, scoring less disciplined, team goals, although more difficult individual goals are making up to this.
 

redaderry

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Place them in context my dear fellow...

According to premier league website and official Liverpool FC website:
  • last season we created 78 big chances in 38 games (avg 2.5 chances per game) scoring 2.21 goals per game with 58 assists (avg 1.526 per game)
  • this season we created 18 big chances in 11 games (avg 1.6 chances per game) scoring 1.91 goals per game with 12 assists (avg 1.091 per game)

We are obviously creating less, scoring less disciplined, team goals, although more difficult individual goals are making up to this.
If you were to put these stats in context i.e. alongside this year's defensive stats vs last year's defensive stats then it might be a more accurate picture of our progress
 
C

Caradoc

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Place them in context my dear fellow...

According to premier league website and official Liverpool FC website:
  • last season we created 78 big chances in 38 games (avg 2.5 chances per game) scoring 2.21 goals per game with 58 assists (avg 1.526 per game)
  • this season we created 18 big chances in 11 games (avg 1.6 chances per game) scoring 1.91 goals per game with 12 assists (avg 1.091 per game)

We are obviously creating less, scoring less disciplined, team goals, although more difficult individual goals are making up to this.

Meaningless. And there’s no need to patronise Redaderry. Comparing progress against the previous season has no real value at all. Context? FFS!

Anyone with a pair of eyes and half a dozen brain cells to rub together can see that a) this season is already more competitive at the top than it was last season and b) we are playing at a higher level without hitting the straps yet.
 

eng.amohd

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If you were to put these stats in context i.e. alongside this year's defensive stats vs last year's defensive stats then it might be a more accurate picture of our progress
I never said we don't have progress, neither did I have had a meltdown. I love our defensive solidity, and I obviously see how much sturdier we have got; but getting to that defensive level, we have had a massive drop in midfield control and attacking efficiency.

I stress again that I would take 38 scrappy 1-0 wins, but we don't look as reliable and consistent to achieve this.
 

Dane

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Place them in context my dear fellow...

According to premier league website and official Liverpool FC website:
  • last season we created 78 big chances in 38 games (avg 2.5 chances per game) scoring 2.21 goals per game with 58 assists (avg 1.526 per game)
  • this season we created 18 big chances in 11 games (avg 1.6 chances per game) scoring 1.91 goals per game with 12 assists (avg 1.091 per game)

We are obviously creating less, scoring less disciplined, team goals, although more difficult individual goals are making up to this.
As I said, "Stats that count" Ie - goals for & against and points total, are the only ones that matter to me.
And to be pedantic, your stat source is flawed, you're comparing an apple to an orange.
You have compared a 38 game season against an 11 game part season.

As I also said, I'll agree to disagree with you, so let's leave it here.
 

[email protected]

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I think Klopp has reined us in, myself. A lot of our smashings have been simply chaos, glorious and bewildering and utterly compelling. Chaos on its own though can bite you on the arse as well. Big time. IMHO, Klopp has simply become far more pragmatic about how to go about a real tilt. Titles are won by teams bashing the living daylights out of teams but also by grinding out a point away from home, or at home, against a rival behind them or level with them on the table thus depriving them of the proverbial six point swing.

Had we lost to Chelsea, City and Arsenal all three would be ahead of us, we'd be looking at a possible 5 point deficit to the top and in joint 4th with Spurs. Here we are though, with a creditable gap to 5th (Arsenal) and only looking at a 2 point gap to the top if City win today.

Very, very few teams win a title by being absolutely brilliant from start to finish and even then, the hard yards were done early so the losses didn't really count later ala City last year. We're putting in the grind, putting in the hard yards and have given a beating here and there. It'll have been nice to be on 33 points now but let's face it, 27 is a great effort and we're in the hunt. The negativity around the result yesterday is slightly bemusing.
 

eng.amohd

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Meaningless. And there’s no need to patronise Redaderry. Comparing progress against the previous season has no real value at all. Context? FFS!

Anyone with a pair of eyes and half a dozen brain cells to rub together can see that a) this season is already more competitive at the top than it was last season and b) we are playing at a higher level without hitting the straps yet.
That is what I am trying to highlight. We are winning with mediocre performances, which I am glad of, and we have had massive progress in terms of results and defense, but we need to acknowledge our negatives and pitfalls, and play better after more than a quarter of the league has finished.
 

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Mascot88

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I am focusing on our point haul, and today, it should be a wake up call to the team to know this "didn't play well but getting points" shit won't fly if we are serious of being a contender. You may feel otherwise, but I for one thinks this is a bad point to drop. I don't mind it when we took 1 from Chelsea and City, but I am not on for what I saw today against these wankers.
The Chelsea/City turned them over and so should we have argument is based on the ‘you play everyone twice’ myth. The important thing is when you play them. That’s massively important and you need a bit of luck in that.

City and Chelsea played Arsenal at the start of the season when Emery was still finding his feet at the club and the players working out what he wants. We get them three months later, when they are settled and firing.

If we get them in August we probably turn them over. If City or Chelsea get them in November they have a much harder time.

For my money, City have had the most ridiculously piss easy start to a season I can remember.
 

Noo Noo

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I don't think anyone would say that we're playing at our full capacity yet which is where my concerns are.

Things should be coming together better at this stage of the season (as they are for Arsenal for example) but we are struggling to take that next step. I think the fear is that we do come unstuck at some point in a game in which we have the capacity to win but simply dont turn up (or whatever).

The elephant in the room is also City. That skews people perceptions and we certainly need to get away from that. Look after ourselves but that is so hard when you're essentially in a race.
 

eng.amohd

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As I said, "Stats that count" Ie - goals for & against and points total, are the only ones that matter to me.
And to be pedantic, your stat source is flawed, you're comparing an apple to an orange.
You have compared a 38 game season against an 11 game part season.

As I also said, I'll agree to disagree with you, so let's leave it here.
I perceive the 11 game sample contains all types of games, top and bottom teams, away and home; and hence I used the average of the samples.

Finally, we both agree that we have a lot of positive progress, and we've got more pragmatic and solid, yet you disagree that we aren't too shabby attacking wise. I'd won't be concerned about that if we could stop scenarios like last night, were we practically handed Arsenal a point.
And on a side note after 11 games in the league we should really be hitting our top-gear, or at least close to it.
 

Rambler

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City have had the most ridiculously piss easy start to a season I can remember.
City have had to play Arsenal away, Tottenham away and Liverpool away and will play Chelsea away soon. I think there are easier starts...........haven't played a top 6 rival at home yet.
 

Perth Red

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We are still 2 points ahead of where I hoped we would be so not at all disappointed with the result. City are exactly where I expected. Overall we are still on course to challenge them for the big prize so a point at Arsenal being a little bit of a disappointment in itself is hugely encouraging in the context of a full season.
 

Billy Biskix

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I think Klopp has reined us in, myself. A lot of our smashings have been simply chaos, glorious and bewildering and utterly compelling. Chaos on its own though can bite you on the arse as well. Big time. IMHO, Klopp has simply become far more pragmatic about how to go about a real tilt. Titles are won by teams bashing the living daylights out of teams but also by grinding out a point away from home, or at home, against a rival behind them or level with them on the table thus depriving them of the proverbial six point swing.

Had we lost to Chelsea, City and Arsenal all three would be ahead of us, we'd be looking at a possible 5 point deficit to the top and in joint 4th with Spurs. Here we are though, with a creditable gap to 5th (Arsenal) and only looking at a 2 point gap to the top if City win today.

Very, very few teams win a title by being absolutely brilliant from start to finish and even then, the hard yards were done early so the losses didn't really count later ala City last year. We're putting in the grind, putting in the hard yards and have given a beating here and there. It'll have been nice to be on 33 points now but let's face it, 27 is a great effort and we're in the hunt. The negativity around the result yesterday is slightly bemusing.
Crucially last season by the time we hit 'top gear' we were already miles out of the title race and had never been in it. In fact top 4 was looking like a struggle so we had little to lose by being aggressive. Too many are overlooking that. There was less at stake. I can understand why people are frustrated, especially immediately after the game but this is a better point than the one we got against Arsenal last season (when we conceded 3 goals in 5 minutes). Arsenal were a much poorer team then and that performance summed up the 'chaos' of our early season form. Brilliant and terrible in the space of 90 minutes.

27 points from 11 games is our best ever start to a PL season. If it's not good enough to keep pace with City then fair enough. Had it not been for a missed penalty and an obvious handball goal they wouldn't have dropped any points at all. This is what we're up against. We can only really worry about ourselves. Try to hang on in there and hope City have a dip at some stage.
 



[email protected]

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I don't think anyone would say that we're playing at our full capacity yet which is where my concerns are.

Things should be coming together better at this stage of the season (as they are for Arsenal for example) but we are struggling to take that next step. I think the fear is that we do come unstuck at some point in a game in which we have the capacity to win but simply dont turn up (or whatever).

The elephant in the room is also City. That skews people perceptions and we certainly need to get away from that. Look after ourselves but that is so hard when you're essentially in a race.
Of course, one could argue that 27 from 33 with the handbrake on, so to speak, is preferable to going full tilt and still having a similar points total. We've played 3 away games to London rivals directly in competition with us and City in 11 games. Having something left to come while still having racked up 27 out of 33 points? I'll take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 

LaurazRed

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Mixed feelings. We were not at our best, we lost the ball in midfield too often in the second half, and the final ball was not there. The 'offside' goal was a huge error in my view, plus once VVD hit the post it felt like it was not our night. The defence were pretty strong but we should have shut Lacazette down far quicker. TAA looked very shaky last night. Arsenal under Emery are so much better and tougher than latterly under Wenger so like others have said it was never going to be an easy away trip.

It seems like a roll reversal in many ways we are a much stronger team but individually players aren't reaching the same heights.
 

LaurazRed

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Crucially last season by the time we hit 'top gear' we were already miles out of the title race and had never been in it. In fact top 4 was looking like a struggle so we had little to lose by being aggressive. Too many are overlooking that. There was less at stake. I can understand why people are frustrated, especially immediately after the game but this is a better point than the one we got against Arsenal last season (when we conceded 3 goals in 5 minutes). Arsenal were a much poorer team then and that performance summed up the 'chaos' of our early season form. Brilliant and terrible in the space of 90 minutes.

27 points from 11 games is our best ever start to a PL season. If it's not good enough to keep pace with City then fair enough. Had it not been for a missed penalty and an obvious handball goal they wouldn't have dropped any points at all. This is what we're up against. We can only really worry about ourselves. Try to hang on in there and hope City have a dip at some stage.
Have to agree with this and I feel better about the result now then I did straight after the game. For the first time (and probably only time ) I'll be cheering Utd on against City next week. :shocked:lol
 
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liver1

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I think there are 2 ways you can analyse this result neither of which are incorrect.

The short term view of the game itself and the long term view of the marathon in the league.

The short term view is we were a bit disappointing in our performance yesterday, Arsenal were all over us when they were in attack and our midfield couldn't really cope, our front 3 werent firing and we looked vulnerable in defence like we were scrambling a lot. We just didnt quite click in the game like we did in the Chelsea match where we were great , so it seems we still havent got out of 2nd or 3rd gear yet.

Now the long terms view is this - its a good result.

Were top of the league, 27 points out of 33, in our 11 games weve played Spurs, Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal, 3 of which are away so weve been travelling uphill. So with 8 games to go till the halfway mark weve got 1 tough game left in Manu and potentially 7 easier ones.

Also in context is that we havent dropped points in games we shouldnt drop points. Over the years gone by we always talk about dropping points, we draw or lose to Palace or Southampton. We would be inconsistent.

So far we have not dropped easy points really, only draws against Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal, so long term we are on track in terms of the marathon.
 

sms1986

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Fair result in the end and can't complain about the offside as they had one disallowed too. Still, it continues our excellent league run and hopefully soon we can break away from City.