POST MATCH: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (EPL 3/11/18 5.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 6 4.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 89 60.1%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 15 10.1%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [GOAL 61’]

    Votes: 21 14.2%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Salah [off 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 7 4.7%
  • Firmino [off 80’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shaqiri [on 80’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Matip [on 90 + 4’]

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

phil smith

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Funny sort of a game really. I thought it was a fair result on play but looking back on goal chances it could have been 6-3 for us. Good goal disallowed and VVD could have had a hat-trick on a different day. TAA needs to drop the arrogance and get back to the basics of defending. 99% of our problems today came from down his side today. Things did improve slightly when Milner came over to the right hand side second half but Trent was still skinned a few times on one to ones. Don't think Allison was at fault at all with the goal which I thought was a superb finish from their lad. Ok there may have been a couple of mistakes in the build up but if nobody ever made a mistake there would never be a goal scored.
Gave my MOM to Robbo today. His tireless running and willingness to have the ball was fantastic. He is the best left back in this league and I wouldn't swap him for any player in world football. Quite funny really...we seem to have the best left back in the league with Robbo and the worst in the league with Moreno!! Thought VVD and Gomez run him very close and maybe if one of Virgils chances had gone in I would have been swayed to him.
Overall a decent point against a very improved Arsenal side who I think will finish in the top four this season.
 

RedLar

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Everytime we win a game without Henderson everyone says we are much better when he doesn't play. Yet I think these games prove we need him more than most people imagine.
because hendo has never been a passenger in such matches? Not sure I agree with the implication. Hendo would have been just as exposed by our tactics yesterday.

After watching that, it Might have been more astute had we gone to the Emirates and played 4-5-1 and not be rather exposed playing our traditional 4-3-3. In doing so, shore up the midfield, give the home team fewer opportunities to get behind our back line, protect our midfielders, take what's already a flimsy Arsenal support out of the match. Instead Arsenal got all of this.

At least we should be be competitive in securing the point. Not hanging on.

I think we need to earn the right to play 3 attackers in some matches. Good teams will pick through what's an over rated press at times, and have a field day with us. This is rather what we witnessed. I'd much rather a more controlled tactical battle, than see us playing with the knowledge we can at least get a goal.

To be fair, not sure klopp has got that sort of game in his locker, so reliant have we become on Bobby, Mane and Salah. At the very least, that front three needs to recognize when we are being out muscled in the final third, and shirk forward responsibility. At Arsenal yesterday, we simply looked out numbered many times. They rather strolled through our midfield.

We have. 3 attacking midfielders, come strikers, who then become peripheral in such games. The Arsenal match is a warning for how we approach city away, as one example. Now that would be a good game to go and draw.
 
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redaderry

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Meaningless. And there’s no need to patronise Redaderry. Comparing progress against the previous season has no real value at all. Context? FFS!

Anyone with a pair of eyes and half a dozen brain cells to rub together can see that a) this season is already more competitive at the top than it was last season and b) we are playing at a higher level without hitting the straps yet.
Excuse me but it's not meant to be patronising in the slightest. It's just that i believe in taking a more overall view of things and don't think it's wise to focus on one single aspect of the game. Tweaking the back end and DM to shore up the defence will have a direct impact on the workings up front so it's difficult to make such comparisons in isolation.
As @Dane says, the important stats are the ones on the table.
 

RedLar

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If Bobby, mane and Salah are playing high on goal kicks and deep possession for the opposition, then our three midfielders have to play in kind and take away the space in behind them. Several times yesterday, Arsenal. Simply bypassed our fron three with one pass to a central midfielder, who then distributed with much more open field to play with. All this did was get their fans excited, and continually have us on the back foot. Rather watching them play. Anything we did, by contrast, was reactive. At least, this is how it felt at times.
 

RedLar

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Then we'll agree to disagree.
I'm just not seeing problems to the extent where I'm concerned.
We finished comfortable winners against Cardiff, and never looked like losing away to Arsenal.
We hardly looked like winning though, and a title challenge will likely require that we do. I think there was a massive underestimation of Arseanl, and right now, we overestimate our own sides chances in the league. Top 3 would be a good end to our season, based on what I am witnessing.
 

Noo Noo

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Of course, one could argue that 27 from 33 with the handbrake on, so to speak, is preferable to going full tilt and still having a similar points total. We've played 3 away games to London rivals directly in competition with us and City in 11 games. Having something left to come while still having racked up 27 out of 33 points? I'll take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
very fair and correct point. I agree. While I dont want to sound too disappointed at what is happening I think the thing that bugs me most is the lack of control we exhibit in games. This was also an issue last year for me.

Yesterday Arsenal had the bulk of possession, pushed more and pressured us more than we did to them. I agree we had the better chances overall but I guess I'm old fashioned where I like to see us have a massive amount of control in games. There have been times this season where I dont feel we've had that. Yesterday was one. But I will concede that football has changed and you can control games through defending. I am uncomfortable with that personally.

Otherwise, its just plain annoying that City are what they are. They skew peoples (certainly my) perception.
 

RedLar

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Clyne must be stinking the place out in training. I'd even play Milner at RB next week because whatever it is with Trent it's going to cost us. I don't think Allison did him any favours today, gave him a terrible ball in the first minute that he made a blunder from and that set the tone for the whole match.
Shaqiri needs to start next week, there is virtually no link between midfield and attack. I thought with the 3 who started today Gini might have been given licence to get forward and link play but that obviously didn't transpire and Gini slipped back into 'invisible man' mode. The game passed Fabinho by which is disappointing given how he's played the last couple of weeks.
Front 3 still not clicked, every team is all over Salah as soon as he gets the ball and Bobby has been off most of the season. Klopp needs to find a way to mix it up a bit even if it means dropping one of them because teams have worked us out to an extent and aren't over-committing in the same way they did last season. The top teams have nullified them with ease, Chelsea, City, Napoli, Arsenal today - it's a real concern.
Arsenal's manager is fucking vile. Is he in permanent pain or something? The grimacing, gurning cunt.
We've been cost 2 points today by another dickhead while all the usual suspects are benefitting from officials' 'mistakes' As usual JK has made nothing of it so I'll expect it to continue moving forward. At some point it might be an idea to hang one of these cunts out to dry but I wont be holding my breath.
Yea, that Arsenal manager. He's getting on my wick. He reminds me of someone (an actor perhaps). It'll come to me, but yea, nasty little shyte. Not liking him a bit.
 

Red Armada

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very fair and correct point. I agree. While I dont want to sound too disappointed at what is happening I think the thing that bugs me most is the lack of control we exhibit in games. This was also an issue last year for me.
Arsenal caused us the most problems by far, but a lot of it was self-inflicted in my view. We had a week of rest and this is how we turn up? The first half in particular was horrendous. At the end getting a point was a success, despite creating far better chances.

The fact of the matter is that so far we've flattered to deceive. By and large, we have not matched last season's performances. And it's becoming worrisome because this "winning ugly" habit at some point will cost us points against someone who we should be convincingly beating. The squad has improved exponentially, the quality is there, it's time to start playing like it. Not all the time, not against weaker opposition but in this type of matches?
It goes without saying that we should be doing better than riding Van Dijk's coattails.
 

santana

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Liverpool: Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Milner, Wijnaldum, Mane, Salah, Firmino.
i got an idea
try to play 2431
klopp is a graet coach trying to make a magical team but he scared of lose a trophy and when you fear then you can not think clear !
so try to test 2431
vvd gomez
milner fabio keita gini
mane firmino shaqiri
salah
just pick a game and make a test !
 
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because hendo has never been a passenger in such matches? Not sure I agree with the implication. Hendo would have been just as exposed by our tactics yesterday.

After watching that, it Might have been more astute had we gone to the Emirates and played 4-5-1 and not be rather exposed playing our traditional 4-3-3. In doing so, shore up the midfield, give the home team fewer opportunities to get behind our back line, protect our midfielders, take what's already a flimsy Arsenal support out of the match. Instead Arsenal got all of this.

At least we should be be competitive in securing the point. Not hanging on.

I think we need to earn the right to play 3 attackers in some matches. Good teams will pick through what's an over rated press at times, and have a field day with us. This is rather what we witnessed. I'd much rather a more controlled tactical battle, than see us playing with the knowledge we can at least get a goal.

To be fair, not sure klopp has got that sort of game in his locker, so reliant have we become on Bobby, Mane and Salah. At the very least, that front three needs to recognize when we are being out muscled in the final third, and shirk forward responsibility. At Arsenal yesterday, we simply looked out numbered many times. They rather strolled through our midfield.

We have. 3 attacking midfielders, come strikers, who then become peripheral in such games. The Arsenal match is a warning for how we approach city away, as one example. Now that would be a good game to go and draw.
Yes it was, at least for me, our tactics at fault. However a 451 would have compounded that fault up untill we score and Arsenal start chasing the game. It's strange because our 4411 after scoring was working well untill we forgot to close down one player in midfield.
I think Henderson would have made a difference yesterday in that he covers both sides of the pitch as well as the middle. Fabino yesterday just dealt with the middle of the park and that wasn't enough. In his defense I feel he Milner and Wijnaldum weren't at all in sync which hurt us a lot. If they get it together then we will see much improved performances from all 3. This is why I was so surprised by the lack of game time for Fabino before this match. Getting thrown in at the deep end with such tactical errors in the game plan was a big ask he didn't live up to.
 

Redsi73

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Despite the ref and the dreadfull offside goal I think it was a fair result.

Not at our best but could have won it, at times arsenal were very very fluid in their passing and movement and they threatened to overun us.

Still undefeated, still top of the league. That'll do me this week.
 
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If Bobby, mane and Salah are playing high on goal kicks and deep possession for the opposition, then our three midfielders have to play in kind and take away the space in behind them. Several times yesterday, Arsenal. Simply bypassed our fron three with one pass to a central midfielder, who then distributed with much more open field to play with. All this did was get their fans excited, and continually have us on the back foot. Rather watching them play. Anything we did, by contrast, was reactive. At least, this is how it felt at times.
Arsenal did exactly what City, Chelsea and Napoli did to us and all came away with points. All 3 just sat good midfielders deep and we obliged them by offering them the midfield. Our coaching team has got to look at this because there are other teams that can use this effectively. You just need 2 deep lying play makers.
 

Rambler

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I believe the clubs will change their minds for next season and vote to bring in VAR. I think they made a huge mistake not doing so. It takes a lot of pressure off the officials...why would you not want more decisions to be correct?
 
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JMac8

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oh my god,yes we are top if the league and getting good results,but i wish people would stop saying IT WAS JUST ON OF THOSE NIGHTS!!!!!!!
NOOOOO...ive seen every game this season and this is pretty much how we play now,god only knows how we are top to be honest,last year im afraid is just a distant memory,we have played 11 games in the premiership and like most people on here i keep thinking to myself,well its only a matter of time before the front 3 click!! Its quite possible we could still be saying that on match day 35!!! I really hope im wrong and they do click but on the evidence so far i just cant see it happening,the only bright light i can see in an attacking sense is shaquiri who seems to link up quite well but is getting limited time so far,anyway still think its a good point away to an in form and decent arsenal side.
You’ve forgotten last week’s game?
 

Limiescouse

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One of TAA or Gomez should have blocked the shot. I think TAA was in the best position to do it but reacted too slowly.
TAA very nearly got back to block, and that was after standing and watching with his arm in the air for a long while before deciding to actually defend. Had he not reacted so lazily to the initial ball in behind then Lacazette probably doesnt even get to turn let alone shoot.
Btw that's the 3rd 'top 6' side that has played wit 2 deep lying DM's against us and got something from the match. We don't handle that well at allleaveing space all over the place where there shouldn't be.
By jove, I think you might have cracked the code. It can be difficult to break down the defense of the best teams in the league when they set up with a defensive formation at their own place. And by that, that means scored 4 goals and 5 points while staying undefeated in three of the hardest games of the season.
 
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I believe the clubs will change their minds for next season and vote to bring in VAR. I think they made a huge mistake not doing so. It takes a lot of pressure off the officials...why would you not want more decisions to be correct?
Its probably inevitable at some point; but just being devils advocate, had every incident gone to the letter of the law yesterday, I think Fabinho at least, would have been sent for two yellows.
 

MW2833

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I think Robertson may need to work on his shooting a bit too.
Yesterday he had a clear goal and no one in front of him and he shot it straight at Leno.
A few matches before as well he had a clear chance but shot it well wide, can't remember who it was against.
 

Barry O'Connor

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because hendo has never been a passenger in such matches? Not sure I agree with the implication. Hendo would have been just as exposed by our tactics yesterday.

After watching that, it Might have been more astute had we gone to the Emirates and played 4-5-1 and not be rather exposed playing our traditional 4-3-3. In doing so, shore up the midfield, give the home team fewer opportunities to get behind our back line, protect our midfielders, take what's already a flimsy Arsenal support out of the match. Instead Arsenal got all of this.

At least we should be be competitive in securing the point. Not hanging on.

I think we need to earn the right to play 3 attackers in some matches. Good teams will pick through what's an over rated press at times, and have a field day with us. This is rather what we witnessed. I'd much rather a more controlled tactical battle, than see us playing with the knowledge we can at least get a goal.

To be fair, not sure klopp has got that sort of game in his locker, so reliant have we become on Bobby, Mane and Salah. At the very least, that front three needs to recognize when we are being out muscled in the final third, and shirk forward responsibility. At Arsenal yesterday, we simply looked out numbered many times. They rather strolled through our midfield.

We have. 3 attacking midfielders, come strikers, who then become peripheral in such games. The Arsenal match is a warning for how we approach city away, as one example. Now that would be a good game to go and draw.
I agree with a what you are saying on tactics. But in terms of Henderson I do disagree. I think Fabhino was very exposed in ways Henderson would not have been. He pressed at the wrong times and so was easily bypassed. His distribution was shocking and he slowed down every attack by taking 5 touches when 1 was required. Now don't get me wrong I am not the worlds biggest Henderson fan but he knows the system and what's expected. Anyway he was not available so all a bit meaningless anyway. If we dont spend in January then we can forget getting anywhere near City. The are playing a video game right now. Unstoppable.
 

Neukolln

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I watched Arsenal's goal again, several times, and IMO it was a little flukey. Two Arsenal players were in the right place at the right time on the through ball from Iwobi and it caused some confusion for Gomez. TAA for some dumb, inexplicable reason was standing at the top of the box waving his arm in the air and watching like a spectator instead of reacting and helping Gomez.

EDIT: and immediately after Arsenal's goal, Shaq powered down the right side and found Mane for a beautiful chance that an Arsenal player luckily got a tip to.
 

BostonMick

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I think Robertson may need to work on his shooting a bit too.
Yesterday he had a clear goal and no one in front of him and he shot it straight at Leno.
A few matches before as well he had a clear chance but shot it well wide, can't remember who it was against.
Robbo is a brilliant defensive and attacking left back - great liverpool player
but
you're right shooting is not his thing (same for Hendo)
and even though he puts in lots of crosses from the left that are exciting to watch (especially at the end of one of his runs or give and go with a teammate) - he's only connected directly for a goal from them I believe twice - they are however really effective at scaring the bejeesus out of the opposition defense
 

Noo Noo

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Arsenal caused us the most problems by far, but a lot of it was self-inflicted in my view. We had a week of rest and this is how we turn up? The first half in particular was horrendous. At the end getting a point was a success, despite creating far better chances.

The fact of the matter is that so far we've flattered to deceive. By and large, we have not matched last season's performances. And it's becoming worrisome because this "winning ugly" habit at some point will cost us points against someone who we should be convincingly beating. The squad has improved exponentially, the quality is there, it's time to start playing like it. Not all the time, not against weaker opposition but in this type of matches?
It goes without saying that we should be doing better than riding Van Dijk's coattails.
yeah that's how I feel and what worries me.

Arsenal deserve some credit. They played wide against our narrow defense and that stretched us at times. They got their tactics right, I'm not 100% sure what ours were to be honest.

I still feel it was two points dropped which is probably very harsh but I honestly can't help feeling that way.
 



Hope in your heart

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It stopped being 'luck' in our case a long time ago. There's more to it than that. There's been a reluctance from many on here to see it as anything other than misfortune, 'inept' officiating that always seems to work against us, but I've seen a change in a few people as time has gone on and they're realising that it isn't going to start 'evening itself out' after all.
Take the lack of penalties awarded at Anfield. People put it down to referees refusing to be intimidated by the crowd (which is generally half asleep most games but that's another matter) but they still wont call it corruption. But that's exactly what it is, these clowns come with a pre-determined mindset that they are going to give us fuck all unless it's absolutely unavoidable. Mascot used to berate me on here for my views on it but I saw a post from him earlier on that basically endorsed everything I've been saying about the treatment we've had from these dickheads.
The problem is nobody at the club is prepared to put their head over the parapet and call them out. As you said Klopp more or less skimmed over it post-match as if it was nothing. Until the club grows a spine and stands up for itself we'll continue to get shafted.
Still at your crusade against the refs, aren't you? lol

I for one am glad to see Klopp not losing any energy in this kind of battles. He has already enough to do to improve the fluidity of our game and to work on improving the squad beyond it's current level. Apart from saying that the ref made an obvious mistake, anything he'd say (what could he say anyway? That we are victims of a vast conspiracy against us?) would be used in the short, middle and long term by the media against him, as they did with Rafa.

Klopp is 100% right: concentrate on the game, and the game only. That's how he keeps the media onside, and how he keeps the players focused on their job. It's why he manages to last so long at clubs and to be successful over the long term. Let the media call out the refs if they commit mistakes. The players need to concentrate on their own performance level, not on hypothetical conspiracy theories.

And anyway, the more we get there where Kloppo wants us to be, the less an odd ref mistake will be of importance. Because we'll wipe teams away, ref mistakes or not.
 

epsomred

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It stopped being 'luck' in our case a long time ago. There's more to it than that. There's been a reluctance from many on here to see it as anything other than misfortune, 'inept' officiating that always seems to work against us, but I've seen a change in a few people as time has gone on and they're realising that it isn't going to start 'evening itself out' after all.
Take the lack of penalties awarded at Anfield. People put it down to referees refusing to be intimidated by the crowd (which is generally half asleep most games but that's another matter) but they still wont call it corruption. But that's exactly what it is, these clowns come with a pre-determined mindset that they are going to give us fuck all unless it's absolutely unavoidable. Mascot used to berate me on here for my views on it but I saw a post from him earlier on that basically endorsed everything I've been saying about the treatment we've had from these dickheads.
The problem is nobody at the club is prepared to put their head over the parapet and call them out. As you said Klopp more or less skimmed over it post-match as if it was nothing. Until the club grows a spine and stands up for itself we'll continue to get shafted.
Since the start of the premier league we have had 80 penalties awarded in our favour. In the same period man united have had 78. Do you think the refs are biased both against us and man united ?
 

Bob8

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Was expecting to read a fairly mellow post match thread, with few debates whether we had won the game had the obvious goal not been disallowed, but the mood in here is the same as last year when we lost to spurs. Few posters are actually panicking. I need to remember to stay away unless we have won 3-0 or more.
 

Noo Noo

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Still at your crusade against the refs, aren't you? lol

I for one am glad to see Klopp not losing any energy in this kind of battles. He has already enough to do to improve the fluidity of our game and to work on improving the squad beyond it's current level. Beyond saying that the ref made an obvious mistake, anything he'd say beyond that (what could he say anyway? That we are victims of a vast conspiracy against us?) would be used in the short, middle and long term by the media against him, as they did with Rafa.

Klopp is 100% right: concentrate on the game, and the game only. That's how he keeps the media onside, and how he keeps the players focused on their job. It's why he manages to last so long at clubs and to be successful over the long term. Let the media call out the refs if they commit mistakes. The players need to concentrate on their own performance level, not on hypothetical conspiracy theories.

And anyway, the more we get there where Kloppo wants us to be, the less an odd ref mistake will be of importance. Because we'll wipe teams away, ref mistakes or not.
Give @jaffod some credit, there were definitely one or two "poor" refereeing decisions yesterday.

Mane's goal
Mihkytarian's (spelling) pull back on Robertson and
Xhaka's (I think it was) blatant body check on Mane when he was away.

They certainly frustrated me yesterday but Klopp ignoring it post games is pretty admirable from him. Others wouldn't.

But I dont think there's an agenda, just a really poor standard of officiating. There are other far more questionable things to discuss in football other than the referee's.
 

20ATHLONE

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I agree that our mood should be ‘better’ given our start to the season but with it being so tight at the top AND our hopes of winning the league, every dropped point does feel like a loss.

It’s hard but I’ll keep faith that City and Chelsea drop some points along the way...it’s a long season, right?