Post Match - Arsenal 2 Liverpool 0

Dane

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Doggie said:
It's almost as if, as if you want us to lose just so you can be right about Rodgers eh?

Sheesh.
Yeah right, because I love to see us lose.

Bore off
 

Canuck33

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I_Never_Walk_Alone said:
Lucas is far from a complete defensive midfielder. Watch the tape of the first goal, he's completely gassed not even moving his feet to track back to the penalty area. Cazorla runs right infront of him for two great chances, finishing the later. If he was just tired or inept I don't know but henderson and Gerrard were no where to found either.
It's too bad we can't splice Lucas and Henderson together. Their qualities combined are what LFC is crying out for in a holding midfielder. Instead we field both in the side and the midfield loses a bit of guile and dynamism. Jordan's stamina, pace closing down, energy mixed with Lucas's eye for a pass and tackling. My point is I think we need to a DM in January to free up that 2nd midfield spot in our 11.
Very true! The scouts need to be working overtime!
 

SoueysTash

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I always think it's quite difficult to pin down whether a manager was out managed when the players aren't performing to their peak. Had it been an even game and Wenger had made some game changing tactical changes then I'd agree. Yesterday was mostly due to the failure of our midfield trio - could be system related I guess but - imagine if he'd have gone back to 4-2-3-1 and we'd lost "Why's he changing a winning team"

My view is no matter the system we'd have lost because first team players weren't on their game.
 

WrongIslander

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SoueysTash said:
I always think it's quite difficult to pin down whether a manager was out managed when the players aren't performing to their peak. Had it been an even game and Wenger had made some game changing tactical changes then I'd agree. Yesterday was mostly due to the failure of our midfield trio - could be system related I guess but - imagine if he'd have gone back to 4-2-3-1 and we'd lost "Why's he changing a winning team"

My view is no matter the system we'd have lost because first team players weren't on their game.
Wenger won the game in midfield because he had a better midfield. I think it's really that simple.

Rosicky was far better than Gerrard.

Ramsey was far better than Henderson.

Arteta was far better than Lucas.

Everywhere else on the pitch other than full back we were equal or better.
 

Colin

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I haven't read too many of the opinions here but the reality is we were just well beaten by a very in form team playing some fantastic football.

We could have scraped something with a bit of luck but we could also have lost by more, also. We aspire to play closer and closer to that level, and i feel that losses like that one are fairly constructive much like our loss to Valencia years back. Sometime it focuses managers on what improvement is needed.

We'll get there.
 

redbj

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Mascot88 said:
Stevie is very obvious in his body language, and he's been done this for so long.

Trouble is as the teams captain he shouldn't be. Henderson advances on goal and it completely opens up for him. He gets caught in two minds and ends up making a mess of it. He looks round and sees Gerrard - a player he probably hugely respects - pulling the most dejected 'look what I have to work with' face. What does this do for his confidence?

I've often said about Gerrard, phenomenal player, questionable captain. He needs to show more encouragement and leadership to the youngsters. He should have been straight over to Hendo with an arm round the shoulder and an encouraging word. It doesn't matter if he's thinking ”ya fucking tit”. One way will coax a better performance from Hendo and one will do the opposite.

Did he play a 2:1 midfield rather than a 1:2? I was struggling to see from the TV coverage.
if poor widdle jordy wardy has a confidence problem the 50k going into his bank account should heal those wounds every Wednesday morning.

Gerard could be nicer though in truth.
 

Mascot88

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redbj said:
if poor widdle jordy wardy has a confidence problem the 50k going into his bank account should heal those wounds every Wednesday morning.
Gerard could be nicer though in truth.
Large amounts of money make people not react like human beings anymore fallacy. File with "for 50k a week he should be hitting the target...".
 

SoueysTash

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WrongIslander said:
Wenger won the game in midfield because he had a better midfield. I think it's really that simple.

Rosicky was far better than Gerrard.

Ramsey was far better than Henderson.

Arteta was far better than Lucas.

Everywhere else on the pitch other than full back we were equal or better.
Erm...that's what I said
 

Canuck33

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dxb_red said:
wow, there is some serious knee jerking going on at the minute...yesterday we were going strong, and all of a sudden we're shit and all our players need to be sold...

a little perspective goes a long way...we lost to the league leaders away from home...it happens...lets not forget that Arsenal were recently held to a draw by West Brom, the same West Brom that we beat 4-1 last weekend...and title favorites Chelsea were beaten 2-0 yesterday by Newcastle, who have been utterly shite lately...it fucking happens...there is no doubt that we are improving, but those of you thinking we were title contenders were deluding yourselves, and you need to lay off whatever it is you've been smoking...the aim is to build a team that can get into the top 4, at which point we can strengthen the squad an push on, but to get there our main objective is to control the amount of points we drop...you only drop points when you lose a game you should have won, ergo we didnt drop points yesterday...had we taken anything from that game, it would have been a bonus...in my opinion, our next four games, against Fulham, Everton, Hull and Norwich are all far, far more important than yesterdays, because these are games we have to win, and that is where we are going to drop points...so lets just accept that we were outplayed yesterday by the better team on the day, and lets move on...
lfc.eddie said:
Thought I was negative.... man, we are not going to get anything out of the top teams and we have to come to terms with that. Our team relied upon aging Gerrard to lead us in midfield. All this talk about Henderson's ability to play in any position, hard working and so on does not give us any comfort when it comes to a game where we need a creative spark. Lucas all the talk about him being our defensive lynch pin turned out he needed Henderson and Gerrard to cover for him, not so great after all. Gerrard's legs are gone. He did well pressing high up in the first 20 mins, and that's it. Once he dropped off pace, the whole team dropped off pace.

Let's be realistic. We don't have the talent in the middle of the pitch that could rival the likes of Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea. We may even find it hard to go up against Spurs as we had against Southampton. We relied on Suarez and Sturridge to make things happen. We are still a team that needs individual brilliance, much like how we were against West Brom. If Suarez did not get that brace in the first half, we would not be able to do what we did easily last week.

So let's not go nuts and calling us disgusting. We all know we have limitations, it is clear for all to see our midfield is very weak and no game changer in there at all. We hyped ourselves up, and paper over the cracks in our midfield since the first game. Now let's not get carried away next match and say we going to trash Fulham and such.
Nice to se some people on here with some sort of perspective.

Nobody expected us to challenge for the title, barely for a CL spot. And that was always going to be a long shot. So now we had a better than expected start and everyone is dreaming of Nirvana. Get real, you lot!
 

slufsar

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Well thats development for you. It takes time. We sort of started last summer. We're still at the starting line in terms of implementing ideas and building a team. I think its too much to ask for that we should be competing for top 4 considering where we were last summer. At that time, it looked like we would spend many years building. And that is the reality.

For every defeat, new weaknesses will be highlighted and then adressed. The defeat yesterday will ensure that our midfield gets addressed the next time we bring in players. Although many, myself included, felt that midfield should've been priority in the summer.
 

Canuck33

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WrongIslander said:
Wenger won the game in midfield because he had a better midfield. I think it's really that simple.

Rosicky was far better than Gerrard.

Ramsey was far better than Henderson.

Arteta was far better than Lucas.

Everywhere else on the pitch other than full back we were equal or better.
Correct! And as the keeper goes, we don't really know since Szczesny didn't really have to show much.
 

Canuck33

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slufsar said:
Well thats development for you. It takes time. We sort of started last summer. We're still at the starting line in terms of implementing ideas and building a team. I think its too much to ask for that we should be competing for top 4 considering where we were last summer. At that time, it looked like we would spend many years building. And that is the reality.For every defeat, new weaknesses will be highlighted and then adressed. The defeat yesterday will ensure that our midfield gets addressed the next time we bring in players. Although many, myself included, felt that midfield should've been priority in the summer.
Agreed! Midfield was not properly addressed last summer but surely will be now! After that I think it'll have to be the FBs/WBs.
 

WellRedKev

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Lads, why are people having a pop aqt Lucas and Gerrard when Jordan Henderson was fucking stinking the place out from start to finish. what the fuck is the love in for him about. That's three pretty shit performances in a row and he has to be dropped next game. His pressing is admirable but when its papering over the cracks in his game it gets annoyed. Theres more composure in a new born calf. Better balance as well. Straight through on goal and he basically shat himself.

Joe Allen and Coutinho need to start next game.

Overall we were beaten by the better team, we're still in the top four and should bounce back with a win over Fulham. A few changes need to freshen things up. Jose Enrique, Danny Agger, Johnson, Allen and Coutinho to start next game for me.

Cissokho, Sahko, Flannagan, Henderson are four defos to be dropped in my book and another as well from Lucas or Gerrard. Coutinho needs to start and Joe Allen deserves a chance to show what he can do.
 

SirBillShankly

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I think it's about time we had DAgger's cool, calm and collected head back in the side, we miss his composure and the way he brings the ball out of defence.
 

Superior Complex

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It's not embarrassing losing to Arsenal, they should of beat Dortmund...

The thing is, our midfield is BADLY exposed when against world class opposition. It's not even competitive.

I've said things rating Allen, Henderson, Lucas etc... Let's be honest they're all weak and Lucas was second string in Rafas team..

We need a creative magician with pace. Also need a destroyer, why didn't we buy Wanyama ?

They're ok as team players but our starting midfield is shocking. Gerrard, is nowhere near the player. Does he even run ? I don't think I've seen him in an explosive run for about 2/3 years, he should be used how Chelsea are using fat frank.

We bought Alberto for what exactly ? Eriksen is awesome, can't believe we never went in for him...

I'm struggling to think who we can attract and buy ? It would be marvellous picking to gems in the transfer window but can you see it ?
 

Semmy

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WellRedKev said:
Cissokho, Sahko, Flannagan, Henderson are four defos to be dropped in my book and another as well from Lucas or Gerrard. Coutinho needs to start and Joe Allen deserves a chance to show what he can do.
Sakho??? He was solid all game, my MOTM for the tackles alone. That is a bit harsh.
 

Semmy

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Picking through gems is one thing, having them want to sign with no Europe play is another altogether.
 

WellRedKev

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Semmy said:
Sakho??? He was solid all game, my MOTM for the tackles alone. That is a bit harsh.
He was exposed a couple of times with poor positioning and has a rashness to his game at the minute. Very raw. A couple of tackles isnt enough in big games man.
 

jabu

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WrongIslander said:
Wenger won the game in midfield because he had a better midfield. I think it's really that simple.

Rosicky was far better than Gerrard.

Ramsey was far better than Henderson.

Arteta was far better than Lucas.

Everywhere else on the pitch other than full back we were equal or better.
best post i have read thus far....
 

Red Tiger

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I am not losing too much sleep on this one. Away at Emirates against league leaders...hmmn.

I think we will be in a right tough battle for 4th with Manure and Spurs come next year.

We just need to hold our nerve until Jan and add in a couple of good midfielders.
 

canucky008

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Just one thing I need to get off my chest and if anybody else noticed

Wasn't Sturrudge over reacting just a bit when Suarez didn't pass to him

I can understand if it was a clear cut slide rule pass which it wasn't but even if it was, what's with the 10 minute protest. Not a good look especially coming from a guy that has more often taken 15 degree angle shots at net instead of better options and hasn't gotten reactions like that

At the WestBrom game I could almost sense that he was getting quite pissed off at all the attention Suarez was getting an I won't say the chip wasn't brilliant but if you look at the fact there were two other Liverpool players storming into the box I was expecting the pass.

It's a bit worrying if his attitude is that the team is working for him. The selfish rumors may be right?
 

shootscore

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canucky008 - Sturridge was frustrated cos it's the eye of the tiger and he has THE HUNGER.
 

dxb_red

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canucky008 said:
Just one thing I need to get off my chest and if anybody else noticed

Wasn't Sturrudge over reacting just a bit when Suarez didn't pass to him

I can understand if it was a clear cut slide rule pass which it wasn't but even if it was, what's with the 10 minute protest. Not a good look especially coming from a guy that has more often taken 15 degree angle shots at net instead of better options and hasn't gotten reactions like that

At the WestBrom game I could almost sense that he was getting quite pissed off at all the attention Suarez was getting an I won't say the chip wasn't brilliant but if you look at the fact there were two other Liverpool players storming into the box I was expecting the pass.

It's a bit worrying if his attitude is that the team is working for him. The selfish rumors may be right?
thats a good point, people in glass houses and all that...
 

The Eternal Optimist

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Quite worrying the way numbers on here slag Henderson off week in week out and will never give the lad an ounce of credit. Football is all about opinions but quite honestly Gerrard and Lucas were crap on Sunday looked like neither could be arsed but Henderson at least put in a full ninety minutes.

Give the lad a break - he does wear a red shirt.
 

alphakilo

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canucky008 said:
Just one thing I need to get off my chest and if anybody else noticed

Wasn't Sturrudge over reacting just a bit when Suarez didn't pass to him

I can understand if it was a clear cut slide rule pass which it wasn't but even if it was, what's with the 10 minute protest. Not a good look especially coming from a guy that has more often taken 15 degree angle shots at net instead of better options and hasn't gotten reactions like that

At the WestBrom game I could almost sense that he was getting quite pissed off at all the attention Suarez was getting an I won't say the chip wasn't brilliant but if you look at the fact there were two other Liverpool players storming into the box I was expecting the pass.

It's a bit worrying if his attitude is that the team is working for him. The selfish rumors may be right?
On the flip side, Suarez was doing the exact same thing. Taking shots even though Sturridge was in a much better position.

We could defend both of them by saying that all strikers must be selfish with an eye for goal at all times. The more worrying thing is that when the going gets tough, when we're chasing a result, both of them choose to trust their own abilities more than the combined functioning of the team, even when they are individually having a terrible game.
 

Dane

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The Eternal Optimist said:
Quite worrying the way numbers on here slag Henderson off week in week out and will never give the lad an ounce of credit. Football is all about opinions but quite honestly Gerrard and Lucas were crap on Sunday looked like neither could be arsed but Henderson at least put in a full ninety minutes.

Give the lad a break - he does wear a red shirt.
Agreed about Henderson.
There's a bit of a Kuyt syndrome about the lad, limited ability wise but puts in a full 90 minute shift every game.

Lucas has one gear and the turning circle of a battleship, and Gerrard showed glimpses of his 2009/2010 cant be arsed performances when we were without the ball.
 

Miklo

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We play a 352 now but honoustly we only have two players in our squad that can play WB. Enrique and Johnson, maybe Henderson (he does a good job when he has to play there).

We tried other players but they are either defensive backs or central defenders that both don't offer anything attacking wise. We need to play 433 or 4312 in my opinion. With that we can put on a good team. Put Lucas behind Henderson and Gerrard and Coutinho behind Suarez and Sturridge with Coutinho dropping between them when we lose the ball, then we are able to really press an oponent.

Arsenal played it very clever. They made us build up through Skrtel and boxed off the midfielders cleverly. That made our build up a bit hard to do. When you play with two defenders you can push Lucas back to take the ball off the CB's while the backs push forward creating space.

All in all, I didn't we were outclassed that much, yes they were better but we had chances to stay in the game in the first half through Henderson and the free kick that was dissalowed (how in heavens name can a referee do that while giving an indirect free kick is beyond me). We're a team fighting for top 4 and that's definately a possibility. Especially with United

Why is Allen fit enough for the bench but not used is beyond me.
 

grooveshark

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canucky008 said:
Just one thing I need to get off my chest and if anybody else noticed

Wasn't Sturrudge over reacting just a bit when Suarez didn't pass to him

I can understand if it was a clear cut slide rule pass which it wasn't but even if it was, what's with the 10 minute protest. Not a good look especially coming from a guy that has more often taken 15 degree angle shots at net instead of better options and hasn't gotten reactions like that

At the WestBrom game I could almost sense that he was getting quite pissed off at all the attention Suarez was getting an I won't say the chip wasn't brilliant but if you look at the fact there were two other Liverpool players storming into the box I was expecting the pass.

It's a bit worrying if his attitude is that the team is working for him. The selfish rumors may be right?
They are both selfish although Sturridge has toned down on it.

The link below got it spot on, and for me, the one thing that has consistently angered me with Suarez is when he tries to do it all by himself. He tried taking on an opponent 11 times on Saturday, managed to get away with the ball twice.

That will frustrate you as a strike partner.

www.fourfourtwo.com/features/five-things-we-learned-arsenal-vs-liverpool
 

canucky008

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grooveshark said:
They are both selfish although Sturridge has toned down on it.

The link below got it spot on, and for me, the one thing that has consistently angered me with Suarez is when he tries to do it all by himself. He tried taking on an opponent 11 times on Saturday, managed to get away with the ball twice.

That will frustrate you as a strike partner.

www.fourfourtwo.com/features/five-things-we-learned-arsenal-vs-liverpool
I read the article. Didn't realise how badly Suarez was. But if he did sink that last ball off the post would we be so critical?

Another poster also said that when things aren't going well both strikers turn off and follow there own instincts

That's not good enough. They are a strike partnership and need to rely on one another as this will always yield better results than going at it alone. I just hope this is a good lesson that both can draw on thorough out the season