Post Match - Arsenal 2 Liverpool 0

grooveshark

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canucky008 said:
I read the article. Didn't realise how badly Suarez was. But if he did sink that last ball off the post would we be so critical?

Another poster also said that when things aren't going well both strikers turn off and follow there own instincts

That's not good enough. They are a strike partnership and need to rely on one another as this will always yield better results than going at it alone. I just hope this is a good lesson that both can draw on thorough out the season
When things arent working out, Suarez tends to try to do it all on his own.

Arsenal set up to frustrate, to limit possession, and limit how much further up the pitch midfielders could go to support SAS.

When you as a team are being outplayed, are losing and your strike partner is losing balls rather than trying to pass it will take its toll.

Personally, i think it was something great that he did, no one ever stands up to Suarez even when he makes a wrong decision. They will become a stronger unit if that tension leads to respect and teamwork in future games.
 

Quagmire81

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I'm still a bit shocked Rodgers choice to pick Flannagan over Players like Coutinho, Moses, Kelly and Allen. Henderson should have played the wingback position, or atleast Kelly.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did we switched to 4-4-2 diamond, for second half. And then back again when Moses was introduced?

I had guests over, so I wasen't paying too much attention at that point.
 

therealkeano1

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mikeypezza said:
Did you miss kellys abject cameo last week?


Gerrard was as culpable as Lucas & Henderson. Being blinkered about something so blindly obvious is mystifying.


If anything the midfield in order today, from worst to best: Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson


Why is Kelly suddenly not afforded time to settle or get match fitness like the rest? I don't think anybody would argue Kelly isn't leaps and bounds above Flan, Flan is absolutely aweful, despite admitedly having an alright game today.

your reply has no revelance to my points, as it critiques a sole performance from which the entire team was outplayed off the park. I was replying to the extreme idiotic drivel from other fans e.g 'gerrards past it' were carrying him' nut job subspecies comments.

Lucas, was player of season not long ago, gerrard is simply the greatest player we have ever had an easily the best midfielder in the side, which stats still reflect, comparitively in the prem also e.g TOTS. An the other is Jordan flippin Henderson.
This is not a form issue, it's a quality issue! Like i say though, can't complain too much as long as he's keeping Allen out i'm perfectly content! I think the formation was the overwhelming reason our midfield were overun today not the players, the half time switch reflected this some what, though the difference was still clear. I still wake up in hotsweats through the night though having a midfield cost of 42m on Allen Henderson and Alberto.

Far too much over reaction to getting beat to the best manager the prem has ever seen.
Flanno is awful. He 20 yr old and he made a few mistakes as an 18 yr old rb and he is awful for life. He is one of the best if not the best full back when he plays for u21. Give the lad a break. He can develop and improve you know.
 

Sound as a Pound

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The Eternal Optimist said:
Quite worrying the way numbers on here slag Henderson off week in week out and will never give the lad an ounce of credit. Football is all about opinions but quite honestly Gerrard and Lucas were crap on Sunday looked like neither could be arsed but Henderson at least put in a full ninety minutes.

Give the lad a break - he does wear a red shirt.
agree to some extent and I do kinda like the bloke with his effort and commitment, however he is absolutely crap at shooting, for all the good positions he gets in - he probably has 2-3 very good chances each game, he always fluffs his chances....not sure whether he puts in the extra practice after training, if not he needs to - as sooner or later he needs to be replaced as you cant keep missing those sort of chances with others on the bench....
 

Bobbinho

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grooveshark said:
They are both selfish although Sturridge has toned down on it.

The link below got it spot on, and for me, the one thing that has consistently angered me with Suarez is when he tries to do it all by himself. He tried taking on an opponent 11 times on Saturday, managed to get away with the ball twice.

That will frustrate you as a strike partner.

www.fourfourtwo.com/features/five-things-we-learned-arsenal-vs-liverpool
I can totally relate to Sturridge's frustration with his strike partner, its no coincidence that when we have struggled in games Suarez & Sturridge have not been linking up well.....same thing happened against Arsenal.....losing possession, off target, not passing when he should Suarez by way of not linking up causes all kinds of problems for our midfield, because the ball keeps coming back at us as fast as we get it up the park to Suarez he squanders it & we're on the backfoot again.

This is something i have been highlighting in post match threads where we have struggled, whenever it happens....but i guess because it is Suarez no one seems to care..? Like he's beyond criticism because he can turn it on for a game or two show a few moments of brilliance link up well basically do his job as a top striker should, yet he is very inconsistent...... when he has a bad game the team suffers because our attack quickly becomes completely dysfunctional & ineffective & Sturridge has to drop deeper as he gets isolated without decent service or link up play.

I don't think Sturridge's reaction on Saturday was purely based on that one occasion where Suarez seemed to basically ignore him....i would say it was probably borne out of an ongoing frustration because it seems to happen quite regularly, we can talk about the midfield trio till we're blue in the face but if our strikers are not on the same wavelength during a game not linking up then we will struggle even against lesser opposition.

Its beyond frustrating because one week it works....& the next week it doesn't, Sturridge, in my opinion had every right to be pissed off with Suarez, its not exactly the first time its happened.....
 

jerusalemred

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Suarez is more selfish than Sturridge. If you follow sturridge carefully he does pass it to a better positioned player quite often as he is more aware of the surroundings and has greater turn of pace to view the situation. Henderson goal against newcastle last season was a good example where he could strike it himself but knew that henderson had an almost open goal.

The sturridge fuck you I am an ant eater stance was correct because he knew suarez could perform that pass and didn't for selfish reasons.

Suarez also has the habit of folding under big games. He bullies small teams but can't even pass accurately when there is no pressure against arsenal in a space of one week hatrick scoring form. All I can say that he is extremely talented but weak in the mind hence the jekyl and hyde when it comes to small and big teams. I guess his all out desperate attempt to move to a big club shows how he really feels inside about playing for us - inferior.
 

tweeks

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I stated early doors that Gerrard and Lucas are doing the same role and this is okay against the lesser teams but when it comes to playing quality teams we are basically playing with 10 men. We need to add a quality attacking midfielder to play alongside cotts.. Perhaps in January
 

lovepool

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jerusalemred said:
Suarez is more selfish than Sturridge. If you follow sturridge carefully he does pass it to a better positioned player quite often as he is more aware of the surroundings and has greater turn of pace to view the situation. Henderson goal against newcastle last season was a good example where he could strike it himself but knew that henderson had an almost open goal.

The sturridge fuck you I am an ant eater stance was correct because he knew suarez could perform that pass and didn't for selfish reasons.

Suarez also has the habit of folding under big games. He bullies small teams but can't even pass accurately when there is no pressure against arsenal in a space of one week hatrick scoring form. All I can say that he is extremely talented but weak in the mind hence the jekyl and hyde when it comes to small and big teams. I guess his all out desperate attempt to move to a big club shows how he really feels inside about playing for us - inferior.
Suarez scored away to Arsenal last season. Destroyed Utd at Anfield to set up Kuyt for three goals. Starred at the World Cup and led Uruguay to the Copa America.

Have you not noticed these performances?
 

Watchman

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I may get slaughtered for this, but am I alone in being slightly puzzled by the expectation being placed in Coutinho? He did well at the back end of last season as an unknown quantity in the EPL and with the pressure off. This season I have seen him play at Anfield and, while not unhappy with his performance, did not see him make any outstanding contribution.
Yet various postings seem to invest the lad with the future of the team in his feet and we see videos of his individual performance against Arsenal. I only saw this on screen and he made a contribution when he came on but nothing to get excited about.
Agreed, he has an adhesive first touch and an eye for a pass but as yet I think judgement on him must be reserved at least until the end of the season. piling expectation on his young shoulders seems totally premature to me.

PS

Something must be done about that formation/midfield!
 

cardiffpete

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Watchman said:
I may get slaughtered for this, but am I alone in being slightly puzzled by the expectation being placed in Coutinho?
...
Something must be done about that formation/midfield!
Way too much expectation on Coutinho ...alone.

In a fully-functioning attacking unit, OK - he adds that bit of class. Less so in a in-progress team.

Formation will be an issue for a while yet, I'd feel. CM not so much an issue, bar needing a goal-scorer from there, semi-regularly.
 

REDSkins

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Granted, I was drinking during the match but I'm not exactly sure what BR's game plan was. Whatever that plan was, I personally lost all hope for this game when it was clear that Glen Johnson wouldn't be playing. But it seems like BR went with his original game plan anyway.

I thought Flanno was excellent on the ball. But as sometimes happens with youngsters, they end up being invisible. Teammates don't look for them...and on the whole, he was a non-factor. Which I guess is better than being a negative factor (Cissokho).

I kept waiting for us to launch some quick counter attacks but everything was just soooo slooooow. Our tempo seemed awful. With our fullbacks ultimately providing minimal utility, it was almost like playing with 9 men.

How people expect our midfield to excel in such a setup, I don't know. For it to be 5v5 the wingbacks need to be involved. You put Arteta & Ramsey in our team instead of Lucas & Gerrard and we'd still have lost the game. Henderson -- I'm not even sure what he was supposed to be doing. He should have given up on all the pressing, since he ended up doing it alone which does nothing.

Gerrard was very disappointing. Seemed like he was caught in two minds. We caught them a few times with some good chances, but we were a total mess in wide areas and couldn't exploit their weaknesses. Watched it on TV so I have no idea what kind of movement Sturridge/Suarez were offering but I just couldn't believe our impotence in transitions.

Overall, I'm not too upset. Arsenal away is generally a throwaway for us. Just keep beating the minnows and rack up the points. A couple of creative signings in January if we want to not crumble with every injury.
 

canucky008

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Alot is being said about our midfield but to me the most pressing issue is left back or left wing

Cissokho is never gonna cut it. I know everyone deserves a chance bit this guy is a donkey.
 

grooveshark

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canucky008 said:
Alot is being said about our midfield but to me the most pressing issue is left back or left wing
Cissokho is never gonna cut it. I know everyone deserves a chance bit this guy is a donkey.
that midfield isnt going to cut it in the long run.

Lucas gets pulled out of position too often, and he has a tendency of giving away silly fouls.

Gerrard for me is on the decline, he is a non issue against any midfield that can string passes together or that can press. Together with Lucas, they form a tandem that cannot last 90 minutes against many a top team that plays well.

Coutinho? He has the talent and an eye for a pass, but he hasnt lit up the league this season.

Henderson? He offers workrate, little else.

Allen? Keeps possession, keeps things ticking, but midfielders like those that play it safe and do little else can be bought at very little cost.

Midfield is an issue, LB is a concern, but nowhere near as huge a concern as midfield.
 

Clive

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Quagmire81 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but did we switched to 4-4-2 diamond, for second half. And then back again when Moses was introduced?

I had guests over, so I wasen't paying too much attention at that point.
more of a straight 442 than a diamond, with Coutinho left and Hendo right. Coutinho did roam around mind you.
 

Dane

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grooveshark said:
that midfield isnt going to cut it in the long run.

Lucas gets pulled out of position too often, and he has a tendency of giving away silly fouls.

Gerrard for me is on the decline, he is a non issue against any midfield that can string passes together or that can press. Together with Lucas, they form a tandem that cannot last 90 minutes against many a top team that plays well.

Coutinho? He has the talent and an eye for a pass, but he hasnt lit up the league this season.

Henderson? He offers workrate, little else.

Allen? Keeps possession, keeps things ticking, but midfielders like those that play it safe and do little else can be bought at very little cost.

Midfield is an issue, LB is a concern, but nowhere near as huge a concern as midfield.
So, basically we need to replace half the team?
 

Dane

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You expressed discontent at Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Allen, Henderson and a LB.
That's 6, which is more than half of 11
 

grooveshark

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Dane said:
You expressed discontent at Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Allen, Henderson and a LB.
That's 6, which is more than half of 11
Three positions. Gerrard can come off the bench, and Lucas, Henderson, Allen can fight for their places against quality competition. Coutinho would also benefit from a better support structure.

DM, CM, LB. Those are three positions. You could be pedantic if you so wish
 

King Aldo

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For me the disappointing thing was how well we played for spells in the game and how badly for others. When Coutinho came on we looked really dangerous for about 10 minutes but couldn't finish one of our chances off.

Then Arsenal got back in control.

Their second was the real killer - I felt if we could have scored to make it 1-1 that Arsenal might have had some nervy spells for the rest of the game, but for Ramsey (who's been banging them in for fun all season) to be given a free shot like that was shocking. Turning your back on the shot, waiting for the ball to bounce to allow Ramsey to get his shot away, I don't know about you but I was screaming at the telly over that one, much to the annoyance of the other people in the restaurant who were enjoying their Sunday dinner !!

I think we will improve on this and do better. At times we are playing great stuff, as good as anyone else, just a bit of composure in front of goal is needed. Hopefully we can start to put things right against Fulham, but to get top 4 we are going to need to get some wins in against the likes of Bitters, Spuds and Chelski. I think we will on the basis of what we've seen so far.
 

Sound as a Pound

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TAW made a very good point in that we had 3 CB's, 2 wing backs which didnt really offer that much going forward, plus 2 DCMs, so that most of the game we had 7 guys in defence....
What is the point in have the 2 DCMs supporting the 3 CBs when all they had was Giroud up front - the midfield was far too easy for them...
 

OOTer

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Lizard said:
TAW made a very good point in that we had 3 CB's, 2 wing backs which didnt really offer that much going forward, plus 2 DCMs, so that most of the game we had 7 guys in defence....
What is the point in have the 2 DCMs supporting the 3 CBs when all they had was Giroud up front - the midfield was far too easy for them...
I actually thought this is one way we should approach the game with a 7-1-2 formation. But we pressed too high up the pitch too early to keep the 7 compact enough to be defensive enough. What worried me tho was that if we crowded the middle we would force Arsenal wide where we had only one player to protect the wings.

Maybe if we had deployed the 4231 we could have used a 4-3 to defend with a front 3 spread the width of the pitch. In both systems we'd have 7 defending and also Hendo/Gerrard breaking from midfield. But in the latter the 2 wide forwards could always retreat to help the FBs out. Which was never gonna happen with the 7-1-2.

In the end it comes down the accomodation Suarez centrally. We either play 2 through the middle fairly static or we start with one out wide and interchanging with Coutinho and Hendo al la the end of last season.