Post Match - Arsenal 2 Liverpool 0

SirBillShankly

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lfc.eddie said:
He over hit his through balls a few times, and that is as far as we had done being creative. Not sure what more would you ask for? I would ask our regulars to step up more than just someone who came back from injury. To me, it is way too much to ask from Coutinho to play a blinder in his first game back.
Maybe to create better chances? Maybe i shouldn't be on his back, first game back and all that. Gerrard was really, seriously disappointing, far more so than Coutinho, who has a valid excuse for not being at his best, this is the sort of game he would have raised his game for in the past, he seems completely incapable of raising his game anymore. Love the man, love the player but maybe the time has come for him to step down at the end of the season, he is hindering our progress and Lucas is a problem aswell. Need new blood in the centre of our team.
 

Mascot88

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JoebloggsLFC said:
So, you advise me to go take a walk, feed the ducks....calm myself

Suffice to say i think your criticism of Gerrard's leadership qualities to be way OTT and very knee jerk in the extreme, something you accused me of last night.....
Why do I get the feeling you've been waiting for the chance to say that.

There's nothing knee jerk about discussing Gerrard's body language. Been doing it for years - I remember the withering look he gave the bench when Torres was pulled that gave the media copy for weeks in the midst of the club imploding.

Alongside all the superlatives I've directed at his abilities as a player, this is just one thing I think he could do a bit better at.

Is that OK?
 

WrongIslander

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Superior Complex said:
Reality check, will we beat united to top 4 ? Arsenal, Chelsea and City are another level.
Possibly, ask me in January when we've hopefully added more quality to the midfield.

Hopefully Suarez and Sturridge can continue to carry us till then.
 

Off_The_Heezay

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SirBillShankly said:
I thought Moses was far more impressive when he came on. Coutinho has wonderful technique, looks good when he has the ball, however, i prefer an attacking player who actually creates and scores goals.

I'm more impressed with Liverpool players who have an end product. Call me old school.
This has to be a wind up right? Okay, he wasn't at his best yesterday (to be expected) but you're talking about arguably our most creative player.
 

SirBillShankly

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Off_The_Heezay said:
This has to be a wind up right? Okay, he wasn't at his best yesterday (to be expected) but you're talking about arguably our most creative player.
No, not a wind up, i am used to our most creative player assisting and scoring far more goals which Coutinho doesn't do enough of. Hopefully, that part of his game will improve as he gains experience.
 

Mascot88

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SirBillShankly said:
No, not a wind up, i am used to our most creative player assisting and scoring far more goals which Coutinho doesn't do enough of. Hopefully, that part of his game will improve as he gains experience.
I agree - Coutinho hasn't a single assist to his name in our last few game. We should get rid of the fucker.
 

Off_The_Heezay

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SirBillShankly said:
No, not a wind up, i am used to our most creative player assisting and scoring far more goals which Coutinho doesn't do enough of. Hopefully, that part of his game will improve as he gains experience.
He got 7 assists and 3 goals in 13 games last year. He could score more, I agree, but he certainly creates enough chances.
 

SirBillShankly

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Mascot88 said:
I agree - Coutinho hasn't a single assist to his name in our last few game. We should get rid of the fucker.
Haha.

Yep, being injured is no excuse for not producing the goods ;)
 

SirBillShankly

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Off_The_Heezay said:
He got 7 assists and 3 goals in 13 games last year. He could score more, I agree, but he certainly creates enough chances.
Didn't realise his stats were that good. Maybe i should just shut the fuck up and enjoy him. I think he has more goals in his locker and i think his shooting needs improving.Think that will come in time.
 

zagueiro

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kopite1982 said:
What is wrong with you? Are you serious? The guy has been in the prem for less than 12 months & frankly been a revelation since he joined. You could see when he came on last night the difference he made considering hes been out for 6 weeks. People need to get a grip in here. We lost to an arsenal side probably playing the finest football in europe and over the last 10 years & we were missing our number one full backs... We are joint second and still ahead of both manchester clubs.

Some of the bullshit in here is rediculous. Get behind the team, win or loose. We lost yesturday to probably the next league champions imo. There midfield is hundreds of miles ahead of us and probably anyone in the league.

Roll on fulham at home. Ynwa
This is the post match thread, and in this particular game Coutinho was not at his best. No-one's denying his value to the team, just his value in this particular match. He looked rusty, to say the least.
 

Dane

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zagueiro said:
This is the post match thread, and in this particular game Coutinho was not at his best. No-one's denying his value to the team, just his value in this particular match. He looked rusty, to say the least.
Sloth-like and immobile
 

Hope in your heart

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LeoT said:
I suspect its because we sometimes play against teams like West Brom, and on other weeks we play against the likes of Arsenal.

I also suspect that we are not as good as the press were making out last weekend after the West Brom game, and we are not as bad as the fans are making out today after playing the league leaders.

We're probably about the 5th best team in the league, maybe slightly better or maybe slightly worst.

I also suspect that this season is only slightly better than last season, though the tough games are just in a different order.
I suspect this is a very level-headed post.

Only comment: I'd firmly place us behind Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, the red mancs and Tottenham in terms of quality. It may also be that we will be found out by Everton in two weeks, like we were found out by S'hampton earlier in the season. That would put us in eight position.

We'll see how we can react to this disappointment against relatively mediocre teams in three of our four next fixtures. There we'll see if there is any mental steel in this squad or not.
 

Claymenza

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coutinho's realised that he's made it as the top number 10 after missing out on erikssen. Suso should be breathing down his neck in january
 

afrikana

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Not sure why we didn't match Arsenal in the middle of the park, despite being the table toppers, we made Arsenal look better than they are, never been a fan of 3 at the back and hope we bin it even if Johnson and Enrique are available.

Tactically, I did not see us defend as a unit, there was too much space afforded to Arsenal because our defence was sat too deep even when we pressed from the front. Arsenal did well at exploiting this gaping hole in the middle of the park and Lucas was unable to contain their attacks where he was outnumbered, moreover his lack of pace was seriously exposed. Arteta would have struggled in our midfield if roles were reversed to be honest.

The first goal was a consequence of the above, the second for me was down to Henderson not reacting to Ramsey making the run to space that was vacated by Lucas who had been attracted to the ball; Toure to could have also done better closing Ramsey down rather than turn his back to the ball!

Our midfield is my main concern, Henderson for all his industry is not brave enough for me when on the ball, especially we are pressed high up the pitch; his indecision early on in the game when given an opportunity to go for goal sums this up perfectly. Gerrard's age is showing more often than not, unless we are playing a team that wants us to have possession.
 

ptt

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Mascot88 said:
Why do I get the feeling you've been waiting for the chance to say that.

There's nothing knee jerk about discussing Gerrard's body language. Been doing it for years - I remember the withering look he gave the bench when Torres was pulled that gave the media copy for weeks in the midst of the club imploding.

Alongside all the superlatives I've directed at his abilities as a player, this is just one thing I think he could do a bit better at.

Is that OK?
As I've often said about that hatrick against Everton, he tried his heart out that game because it really mattered. All too often though he's either not in superman mode or not even at the races. As he's captain, he's number one on the team sheet. This might be controversial but I'd promote Toure to captain and let him marshal and organise on the pitch. God knows we need a leader at the back. Sadly, we're not going to win the league whilst we've got Gerrard, Lucas an Henderson in the middle. One of them and 2 very good players will be brilliant but the sum of their parts is less than their individual talents. Inverse synergy in a way. It's no good having brilliant strikers and wingers. Your strength has to be between the posts, at CB and in CM. The spine must be strong to support the team. We've got the gloves man and a host of CBs who'll cycle until they click. What we don't have is a brilliant midfield and we've known that all season.
 

ptt

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Hope in your heart said:
I suspect this is a very level-headed post.

Only comment: I'd firmly place us behind Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, the red mancs and Tottenham in terms of quality. It may also be that we will be found out by Everton in two weeks, like we were found out by S'hampton earlier in the season. That would put us in eight position.

We'll see how we can react to this disappointment against relatively mediocre teams in three of our four next fixtures. There we'll see if there is any mental steel in this squad or not.
Hope, that hurt to read, it really did :(
 

RJK

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kopite1982 said:
What is wrong with you? Are you serious? The guy has been in the prem for less than 12 months & frankly been a revelation since he joined. You could see when he came on last night the difference he made considering hes been out for 6 weeks. People need to get a grip in here. We lost to an arsenal side probably playing the finest football in europe and over the last 10 years & we were missing our number one full backs... We are joint second and still ahead of both manchester clubs.

Some of the bullshit in here is rediculous. Get behind the team, win or loose. We lost yesturday to probably the next league champions imo. There midfield is hundreds of miles ahead of us and probably anyone in the league.

Roll on fulham at home. Ynwa
What he said... Although disagree on the European bit
 

Doggie

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ptt said:
Hope, that hurt to read, it really did :(
Chill, nothing like a bath of self pity to bring out the best in Hope. lol
zagueiro said:
This is the post match thread, and in this particular game Coutinho was not at his best. No-one's denying his value to the team, just his value in this particular match. He looked rusty, to say the least.
Indeed, he will be back to his best come the derby match.
 

Bonnar-Of-The-Kop

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Honest assessment of the game: We were beaten from the 1st goal. We played well and we were in the game right up until the 17th min. After that, it looked like Men vs Boys. Ok, we had chances, and for me, a goal chalked off wrongly.

But....

We approached the game wrong, all wrong. I'm a huge fan of BR but we should have gone in with a 4-2-3-1. Saying that, I can see where he was coming from with 3 at the back but we so needed the 1st goal for it to work and we didn't get it. We tried to change it but unless he made it literally seconds after the Arsenal 1st we had no chance. Away at a team like arsenal, you just can't surrender the ball as easily as we did. Midfield looked slow/tired and devoid of quality because of it.

Most important thing now? A VITAL 3 points vs Fulham. Absolutely vital.
 

Bleech

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Bonnar-Of-The-Kop said:
Honest assessment of the game: We were beaten from the 1st goal. We played well and we were in the game right up until the 17th min. After that, it looked like Men vs Boys. Ok, we had chances, and for me, a goal chalked off wrongly.

But....

We approached the game wrong, all wrong. I'm a huge fan of BR but we should have gone in with a 4-2-3-1. Saying that, I can see where he was coming from with 3 at the back but we so needed the 1st goal for it to work and we didn't get it. We tried to change it but unless he made it literally seconds after the Arsenal 1st we had no chance. Away at a team like arsenal, you just can't surrender the ball as easily as we did. Midfield looked slow/tired and devoid of quality because of it.

Most important thing now? A VITAL 3 points vs Fulham. Absolutely vital.
Hell yeah. 4-2-3-1. I'm sick of all this experimentation to try and get Suarez and Sturridge both playing up front. I'd much rather we do the massively reliable 4-2-3-1 with Moses on one wing, Suarez on the other, Coutinho in the middle and Sturridge up front. It's surely a much more reliable long term strategy than what we're doing at the moment. We were kicking ass with that at the end of last season without Suarez or Moses. I would very much like to see this happen. I suspect the 3 at the back is BR's main plan for the season however, thus why we have so many centre backs.
 

Never Say Never

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SirBillShankly said:
I don't expect him to play like Messi, of course that would be unrealistic, however, i expect him to use the ball a lot better than he did, to create chances for our strikers. Is that really asking too much?
CardiffPete and myself expressed a bit of concern about Coutinho this season. Not anything against him as a player, moreso that teams would set out to stop him and put him off his game, after realizing the quality he posses. He was afforded a lot of time and space his first half term here because he was such an unknown quantity and we felt like that might be a lot more limited the more teams realize his value.
 

Semmy

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In all seriousness, been on the site for little over a month now and the roller-coaster of opinions is tiresome. My god, there is nothing that can be done about the roster in Jan and how many games to plau until then?

We went to the league-leaders home and lost 2-0. Had the ref now blown down the quick restart and taken away a very important goal, could have been a different result.

No surprise they dominated the midfield. No big shock, they have quality players who are very much in-form.

Imagine my surprise that BR chose to start Flanagan and Cissoko as WB's. Did not see that coming.

The big elephant in the room...our 3 CB's were studs out there. BR has the quality in those positions but cannot figure out how to patch the middle of the pitch.

This is a coaching issue, to me...very plain and simple.

Can Allen fill the role? Alberto? Don't know, they never get the chance. Moses??? Come on BR, you have tried that and it doesn't work.

something about insanity being defined by repeating the same expecting different results?

SaS looked pissed off at lack of service, so much that they start dropping into deep CM to remember what the ball at their feet feels like.

Sturridge hoofed the ball off the pitch in anger. Not a good sign

Yeah we lost. Time we start learning from these games
 

WrongIslander

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Never Say Never said:
CardiffPete and myself expressed a bit of concern about Coutinho this season. Not anything against him as a player, moreso that teams would set out to stop him and put him off his game, after realizing the quality he posses. He was afforded a lot of time and space his first half term here because he was such an unknown quantity and we felt like that might be a lot more limited the more teams realize his value.
I don't think it's an issue, he's intelligent enough to give and go if they try and over play him and he's also skilful enough to go past 2 players anyway. His game is about making space and finding players and he does it extremely well. I have no fear about the lad.
 

sportbilly1966

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jerusalemred said:
thats why rodgers is naive. you cant playhenderson in AM thats unothordox to begin with and west brom is totally different to Arsenal. So its not common sense to play henderson just becasue he is on form. his form will contribute nothing to that role because arsenal will be playing quicker through the flanks before hendo knew who was where.

he became useless and rather put him at RB which was better used and put coutinho at AM, what we got was two defensive players (hendo and flanno) playing in an already overcrowded slow and paceless midfield.

yes its sensible to play counter attack because arsenal had more technically superior midfielders and pacier. But we need at least one coutniho to connect that counter from defense to strikers and we didnt address that balance. henerson destroyed no one and passed to no one and his highlight was that open goal scuff shot.
You seem to be slagging off Hendo when he was our best midfielder on the day, fit & mobile. We would have competed better against Arsenal with 3 mobile & fit me
Midfielders!
 

Semmy

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Dane said:
The manager was out managed, and the players were out performed, out thought and out fought by a far better side.
All that needs to be said. They are top of the league and we lost to them at home. Their midfield is strong and they controlled the flow of play as they are built to do.

When you lose the middle of the pitch and your two only offensive threats are being tightly man-marked and outnumbered by lack of support don't expect a different result
 

kipland007

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Keeping in mind that this really was an exhibition of a team at the beginning of it's evolution (us) against a team currently displaying the clearest identity and style in the Premier League, as well as playing the best football, here are a few thoughts on the game:

Mainly, I think Rodgers & the team are still having an identity crisis with how we are going to play. We want to set up like a possession side but I think we are still most effective when counterattacking, particularly when you consider the personnel in our attack and midfield.

In hindsight, the best way to approach this game would've most likely been to sit back in our end and press them aggressively, while trying to break and counter on them when they committed too many men forward - basically what Dortmund did against them. To be honest, I feel like this should've been clearer from the start, so the question for me is whether Rodgers didn't think this would work (I disagree) or whether he didn't think our midfield could cope with the level of pressing needed (which is quite possible). Either way, this is something I expect us to address next summer or hopefully in January, though watching Roma I'm stupified as to why we didn't try to sign Strootman this summer... and this would have been the exact game where he could lead our midfield.

Essentially I think our problem is that we don't have enough dynamic midfielders. Lucas sits in front of the back 4, Gerrard is generally charged with starting play and negating teams pressing by finding the open man, and Henderson presses. Unfortunately, I don't think that any of them have the regular capacity to do much more than their 'roles' at this point in their career, so when we play against a strong and intelligent midfield like Arsenal's, ours looks completely useless. Gerrard was marked out of passing forward, space was overloaded for Lucas and Henderson was chasing shadows because the two other midfielders weren't effective in helping him press.

Otherwise, I don't think we were actually that bad - considering the amount of opportunities SAS had I thought they were reasonably effective (just had such limited time on the ball I don't think they can really be expected to score) and considering the amount of time our back line was pinned in front of the 18 yard box I thought they dealt with chances reasonably well. Toure didn't have the usual reliable game and I think that's a wake-up call that he's not going to be our Kompany/Vidic but in reality he will offer something similar to Carra when he was here - experience and a steady hand BUT he's not the most gifted player and will have the off-game.

Anyway, 20 points after 10 games is a good start. Let's hope we can keep building and grab 3 from Fulham while hat tricks from Suarez and Sturridge please...
 

lovepool

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Never Say Never said:
CardiffPete and myself expressed a bit of concern about Coutinho this season. Not anything against him as a player, moreso that teams would set out to stop him and put him off his game, after realizing the quality he posses. He was afforded a lot of time and space his first half term here because he was such an unknown quantity and we felt like that might be a lot more limited the more teams realize his value.
Coutinho had plenty of time and space yesterday but his final ball was slightly off. Once he gets match fit he will be one of our best players again. Enrique with his over lapping runs will also help create space on the left for him
 

I_Never_Walk_Alone

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Lucas is far from a complete defensive midfielder. Watch the tape of the first goal, he's completely gassed not even moving his feet to track back to the penalty area. Cazorla runs right infront of him for two great chances, finishing the later. If he was just tired or inept I don't know but henderson and Gerrard were no where to found either.

It's too bad we can't splice Lucas and Henderson together. Their qualities combined are what LFC is crying out for in a holding midfielder. Instead we field both in the side and the midfield loses a bit of guile and dynamism. Jordan's stamina, pace closing down, energy mixed with Lucas's eye for a pass and tackling. My point is I think we need to a DM in January to free up that 2nd midfield spot in our 11.
 

Doggie

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Dane said:
The manager was out managed, and the players were out performed, out thought and out fought by a far better side.
It's almost as if, as if you want us to lose just so you can be right about Rodgers eh?

Sheesh.