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Post Match: Arsenal 2 - Liverpool 1

EdWood

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cw37 said:
How that guy is classed as the top ref in this Country is a complete joke. Even the poser/attention seeker Clattenberg is way better than him. Probert is about the best. Best of a very bad bunch that is. Of course he cost us yesterday, He was bad for both teams tbh. But the ones, Well what he did not give, Really costed us.
The Refs Association look after their own 9 times out of 10. It's an old boy's network which closes ranks at the least hint of criticism, and that sucks.
 

sunburst

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I'm not complaining about the result, we had chances which should have been taken but weren't... that's football

However, in any other job and you make an obviously wrong decision (and lets face it the disallowed penalty was seen by millions as well as Webb), you will be hauled over the coals about it, and have to justify it to your superiors, and accept the bollocking and any sanction it may incur... why the hell are refs not made accountable for their actions? Players are held accountable. managers are held accountable, fans and club are held accountable. Refs however, can do what they want, miss what they want to miss, and nothing can touch them.
 

cardiffpete

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I'm not a big fan of Webb (in any way) and a booking of Podolski for his challenge on Flanno on 38" was certainly warranted ...but Suarez took a very quick free-kick to Coutinho (which pre-empted it aka the booking).

Remember here, that we all cried foul at the Emirates (in early November) when the (then) Ref refused us a quick free-kick advantage (for an almost certain goal) ... only to pull play back for a Sagna booking on Suarez. You can't have it both ways ;-)

As to the Suarez penalty, after Ox's challenge, yes it was a penalty (in hindsight anyway) ...but Suarez almost made a triple-salto on the touch. That was just basic overkill and I can well understand why a Ref mightn't give it, as Suarez just simply over-played the contact. I was hoping (at that moment) that Suarez wasn't going to get booked by Webb, for diving! Only after 3x replays, was it clear that it was a penalty! Plus Webb saved Gerrrad from a certain Red, with 20 minutes to go.

Webb is certainly not my favourite Ref, but we shot ourselves in the foot ...far more than the "ref was to blame" angle aka we simply didn't take about 5x 100% chances to score on the day. Take any of these and it would have been a very different game.

We were clearly better on the day anyway (barring minutes 10~40). If only we had taken our chances, we would have won. That's as simple as is. Score early (which we should have) ...or else rescue the game second-half (which we also should have) for at least a draw.

However, also look at 7 (!) telegraphed passes out to RB, all intercepted by Monreal ( 5x first-half) ...or look to 7x balls straight into touch instead. I'm not sure (at all) that we were on our best attacking game on the day. It all looked that little bit stale to me as-in a lack of invention up-top, which very much continued-on from the Fulham match.

Attackers (generally and usually) need rotating far more than defenders and/or midfielders ....just to keep their sharpness and intensity up. It has just felt a little stale (to me) here in our past 2 games. The downside to not having options in your team/set-up. I've missed any attempt (bar Teixeira versus Fulham) from BR to freshen our attack up. Maybe no realistic option exists, but I'm not sure that's the case.

Teixeira (at LW) literally tore Jenkinson apart in the U21 fixture (for example) ...and none of our players yesterday overly troubled Jenkinson at all, yet Teixeira didn't get on the pitch yesterday. Teixeira was warming-up for about 40 minutes long (all-game), but our only change on-the-day was Hendo. That's just fine, but the likelihood of Hendo winning it for us is pretty minimal ....whereas a young, hungry (and superbly talented) kid offers much less certainty, but so much more promise. Fearless etc.

BR kind-of played it pretty safe yesterday ...and he lost it. He was up against Arsenal "B" (in all reality) ....and I'd want to see better (and more pro-active) subs being made. Also if BR does play Allen (who is a very limited EPL player) from-the-off, then surely play him at DM and just push Gerrard on that bit more. It makes all kinds-of-sense, especially against a very sub-par (and unambitious) Arsenal on the day. We were torn apart many times on the counter (about 6 times), forcing 3 yellows, so why not get smart?

Playing the same 4 attackers doesn't work in every game. Sometimes, it has been a joy to watch (when all 4 are fully interacting). The last 2 games though, that hasn't been happening as much. Missed opportunity for me to 1) Shake things up and 2) To impact the game, with subs-in.
 

anglian_red

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Redragbull said:
You must have been at Carrow Road while I was at Anfield mate. Sterling played on the left in that game, it was a tactical switch by Rodgers for Sterling to push back Sagna and also exploit the space between the full back and Mertesacker, which he did very effectively. Monreal played at left back.
Well I don't remember Suarez being isolated on the right touch line in the 5-1, but whatever. Looking at Sundays game, given Monreal was in the book early on, wouldn't it have made more sense to shift Raheem to that side? There was no need to 'pin Sagna back' on Sunday because Sagna wasn't playing. Jenkinson is a totally different type of player, we don't need to fear him bombing on.

Urban Achiever said:
Yeah, and what was wrong with my analysis again ?

And no, actually we haven't done that loads of times. I don't know what games you think you watch if that's what you arrive at...

I'm sorry to say this... and I would have loved to go to the final and win the cup.... but if you seriously don't give a fuck about ChL compared to winning the cup you're living in some kind of fantasyland not willing to look at world football thru' contemporary glasses...
I just think we might as well rename ourselves Arsenal FC if runner-up-to-bronze is deemed a trophy for us.
 

BhupendraS

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I've just realised today why Howard Melton Webb (MBE) has consistently seemed to be biased against us.
He used to be a police sergeant in the South Yorkshire Police force....

Perhaps (and I have no proof of this - it's just my hypothesis) the memory of that day in April 1989 has clouded his judgement.
When he sees Liverpool on his schedule, Melton sees whingeing Scousers.
He sees people who have brought into question the character of many of his fiends and / or colleagues.

As Melton was born in 1971, he was perhaps too young to have been there, but he would know all about it.

Conspiracy theory?
Or just a shit referee?

You decide.
 

Maria

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[media][/media]Not sure where to put this (sorry if in the wrong thread) but it kind of reminded me of the our game against Arsenal in the FA Cup tie and got me thinking about the relationships between referees, footballers and the fans. It made me laugh a little.

Source is Bleacher Report UK's twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/br_uk/status/435542318842511360/photo/1/large
 

Quagmire81

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Web is such a joke... Yet again he infuence a game's result through his calls. That's the only thing he's good at IMO.
 

redandwhite3

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Maria said:
I am totally disheartened that we are out of the FA cup, I was hoping for at least a shot at some silverware for us. I grew up watching the FA cup and loved watching LFC participating in it and I feel it is just as an important national competition.

When I saw the twerp Webb named as the referee, I thought, here we go, not again but I am not going to blame him for our woes except when Suarez should have been awarded the second penalty. Also, Suarez rolling in the grass as if he has acute appendicitis doesn't help the cause either.

We were definitely the much better side in the second half but we didn't take our chances and Sturridge and Suarez were not focused enough but maybe this year it was not in our 'kismet' to advance in the Cup. There is a saying that 'If we are being rejected from something good, we are actually being redirected to something better'.

Nevertheless, we need to push ahead and concentrate on the premier league now and be totally focused, not miss any chance, every single game counts for us now and is not to be taken lightly, whether we are playing Swansea, Cardiff, Manchester City or Chelsea.
you deserve top four and a trophly in the future for great football you played

as i said yesterday that our luckest big game win in years. struggling to remeber since barca 2-2 at home when they batered us for most of the game that we got away with such a lucky result. it was like 2005 cup final when we somehow won when outplayed for 90 mintues

maybe means we be lifting cup at 7.10 pm on saturday may 17th. :)
 

redandwhite3

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spizfromoz said:
You can keep it, we'll take 3rd spot, you can have 4th. :D
to be honest i be fine with that. if we don,t win the title i don,t care if we 2nd, 3rd or 4th. i take us not winning the league and you finishing above us if thomas and mikel lift the cup at wembley at 7.10 pm on saturday may 17th with arsene dancing, wilshire rocking and ox doing summersaults alpleanty. :)

then in ideal world which is very possible in few months a town parade on sunday may 25th at the town hall. been to three before in 1994,1998,2002 and 2004 and this be my 5th.
 

Hope in your heart

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BhupendraS said:
(...)

Conspiracy theory?
Or just a shit referee?

You decide.
Definitely the second option. Every second week, he's in the headlines for wrong and match-influencing decisions, whether he referees a Liverpool game or not.

Definitely a 'worthy' representative of the clueless FA.
basil1492 said:
Has anything come out yet from Webb? I mean, has he apologised or at least admitted it was a mistake? I've known some refs to do it but i wonder if he has the backbone to admit to a mistake or even if he thinks it was a mistake.
Nope, he never does that and it could well be that the FA doesn't allow them to do so...
 

fcukManU

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redandwhite3 said:
struggling to remeber since barca 2-2 at home when they batered us for most of the game that we got away with such a lucky result. it was like 2005 cup final when we somehow won when outplayed for 90 mintues
That game was amazing, orgasmic football from Barca. They blitzed Arsenal right from the go, it was some of the best football I've witnessed period. The pace and intensity of Barca's play, Arsenal were pretty much penned back in their half for huge periods of the game. A proper footballing masterclass from Guardiola's team.
 

basil1492

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Hope in your heart said:
Nope, he never does that and it could well be that the FA doesn't allow them to do so...
I found where i had heard about it before. It was Riley apologising on Mariners behalf to West Brom so it has been done. It probably is the one and only time as Mourinho moaned about the fact that it was done (as they were facing West Brom). It's a shame because i'd have a damn site more respect for refs if they did admit to mistakes when it's something as blatant as this one. Not just ours either but there have been some really stupid mistakes by refs this year.

Edit, just found out Riley also apologised to Wes Brown over sending off so it does (however rarely) happen though i doubt if Webb would.
 

Semmy

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Just finally watching this game in full.

never has it been more glaring to me that when our attack isn't working as a unit, SaSaS tend to become isolated and forget how to run off the ball in offensive zone.

Sad to see, really is. They start running away from the ball carrier instead of working basica like wall passes and cycling into space.

Suarez's forays to the byeline, and lack of penetration on their back4 were numerous instances of this
 

King Aldo

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King Aldo said:
Classless.

You're gone from here with that last comment but in case you ever make it back for a read know that I will be pissing myself laughing when you are dumped out of CL in the next two weeks and continue to drop points in the run in.

Infernord ??? ... Infer-bred more like.
... like I said last Sunday - where is the half-wit now I wonder, trolling the Bayern site no doubt. Ha Ha, Karma's a bitch when you don't have the ref on your side isn't it Infer-bred? Hope your reading this sometime, have a nice evening yourself.
 

Mascot88

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King Aldo said:
where is the half-wit now I wonder,
He was banned within about ten minutes of posting. I don't understand why people are still talking about the attention seeker five days later. Talk about hook, line and sinker....
 

Urban Achiever

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anglian_red said:
I just think we might as well rename ourselves Arsenal FC if runner-up-to-bronze is deemed a trophy for us.
Yeah, and you still refuse to answer the question about what was wrong with my analysis.... for the third time.

In you eyes, we apparently either win the league and all cups or everything is complete and utter shit. You cannot even be tricked into accepting that getting into the ChL and making millions of extra cash to boost the team could be a positive step on the way.... nah, you'll only accept victory in all departments before anything is alright.

You'd might wanna work a little on your splitting.... it's quite problematic to fit into the complexity of the world.
 

tesh

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It was interesting watching last night's game between Arsenal and B. Munich. We seem to have such a long way to go in terms of being in the top tier of footballing teams. Coupled to the Barca/ManCity game, they show that English football as a whole is some way off from being the very best. Both ManCity and Arsenal were quite comfortably beaten in the end. Both of those teams are, along with ManU, Spurs, Chelsea and us, the best that England has to offer. The English league is some what on a bit of a down turn, possibly in a similar way to how the Italian league deteriorated after the 90s. As money seem to flow into English footy, the Italian league lost it. In the same way, money seems to be flowing into the Russian and French leagues and we're starting to find it a bit more difficult to get players in for the money we have. In the past we could probably offer some of the best wages and transfer fees - this not the case any more and even the likes of Man City and Chelsea don't have it all their own way with the likes of Monaco and PSG about.

For us to push beyond the English teams alone will require a financial effort well in excess of our recent expenditure(s) and for us to compete for European cup, well, it is almost not worth contemplating. For the foreseeable future maybe we need to concentrate on the domestic cups a bit more. We need the CL qualification and progression into the KO stages for certain but the cups are likely to be our best chance of silverware for the near future.
 

grooveshark

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tesh said:
It was interesting watching last night's game between Arsenal and B. Munich. We seem to have such a long way to go in terms of being in the top tier of footballing teams. Coupled to the Barca/ManCity game, they show that English football as a whole is some way off from being the very best. Both ManCity and Arsenal were quite comfortably beaten in the end. Both of those teams are, along with ManU, Spurs, Chelsea and us, the best that England has to offer. The English league is some what on a bit of a down turn, possibly in a similar way to how the Italian league deteriorated after the 90s. As money seem to flow into English footy, the Italian league lost it. In the same way, money seems to be flowing into the Russian and French leagues and we're starting to find it a bit more difficult to get players in for the money we have. In the past we could probably offer some of the best wages and transfer fees - this not the case any more and even the likes of Man City and Chelsea don't have it all their own way with the likes of Monaco and PSG about.

For us to push beyond the English teams alone will require a financial effort well in excess of our recent expenditure(s) and for us to compete for European cup, well, it is almost not worth contemplating. For the foreseeable future maybe we need to concentrate on the domestic cups a bit more. We need the CL qualification and progression into the KO stages for certain but the cups are likely to be our best chance of silverware for the near future.
Thought both City and Arsenal gave a good account of themselves up until the point where they got red cards.

Barca werent creating anything, and Bayern werent either, if anything, one could validly argue that City and Arsenal, especially the latter had more going for them.

I believe Guardiola in his post match presser said that the red was the turning point. I honestly believe that English teams are starting to close the gap once again, and in a year or two we could see them making a consistent run at the semis.

Barca look weaker and need to invest, Bayern are an aging group too when you look at a good number of key players ages.
 

tesh

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grooveshark said:
Thought both City and Arsenal gave a good account of themselves up until the point where they got red cards.

Barca werent creating anything, and Bayern werent either, if anything, one could validly argue that City and Arsenal, especially the latter had more going for them.

I believe Guardiola in his post match presser said that the red was the turning point. I honestly believe that English teams are starting to close the gap once again, and in a year or two we could see them making a consistent run at the semis.

Barca look weaker and need to invest, Bayern are an aging group too when you look at a good number of key players ages.
You maybe right but I'm still far from convinced. The fact is that they got beaten 2-nil at home. Domestically that rarely happens to either. I agree the red cards played a part in both but I would argue that the tide turned prior to that. Ozil's missed penalty was the key moment in the Arsenal game and the awarding of the penalty in the ManCity game (the red card was fair enough but initial contact for the penalty was outside the box). Even prior to the penalty, Barca were starting to turn the tide.

Both Arsenal and ManCity had a good first 20 minutes but could't really sustain it.
 

grooveshark

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tesh said:
You maybe right but I'm still far from convinced. The fact is that they got beaten 2-nil at home. Domestically that rarely happens to either. I agree the red cards played a part in both but I would argue that the tide turned prior to that. Ozil's missed penalty was the key moment in the Arsenal game and the awarding of the penalty in the ManCity game (the red card was fair enough but initial contact for the penalty was outside the box). Even prior to the penalty, Barca were starting to turn the tide.

Both Arsenal and ManCity had a good first 20 minutes but could't really sustain it.
For me it was telling that both Bayern and Barca werent really creating anything. Even against 10 men they mostly labored before getting a late goal as City and Arsenal tired.

An early goal for either the away teams and we may have some interesting ties. Neither impressed me defensively either, moreso Barca because City still had openings even with 10.
 

basil1492

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The only thing i'm unconvinced about is whether or not to be happy watching Arsenal lose to Bayern. As unhappy as i was with the result i have to admit that i don't know whether a win is better for us or a loss. A win against Bayern may give them the renewed confidence but going out to them in the return leg means they have less games to play. At the very least i hope both Arsenal and City tire themselves out in the return legs but i'm still not sure what result i'd prefer to see from both of them next time.
 

grooveshark

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basil1492 said:
The only thing i'm unconvinced about is whether or not to be happy watching Arsenal lose to Bayern. As unhappy as i was with the result i have to admit that i don't know whether a win is better for us or a loss. A win against Bayern may give them the renewed confidence but going out to them in the return leg means they have less games to play. At the very least i hope both Arsenal and City tire themselves out in the return legs but i'm still not sure what result i'd prefer to see from both of them next time.
Dont think it really matters. Arsenal made 7 changes at the weekend, and 5 for the CL fixture and they still have Ramsey to some back.

City just got Jovetic, Nasri and Fernandinho back from injury, Nastasic, Aguero arent far off either and one would reason that Milner, Garcia, Dzeko will get games.
 

Arminius

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grooveshark said:
Dont think it really matters. Arsenal made 7 changes at the weekend, and 5 for the CL fixture and they still have Ramsey to some back.

City just got Jovetic, Nasri and Fernandinho back from injury, Nastasic, Aguero arent far off either and one would reason that Milner, Garcia, Dzeko will get games.
How far off is Ramsey? I thought he was still quite a few weeks off.
 

LFC-Orlando

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I don't want to come back here again. Sick to my stomach, of even re-hashing this game/result ...Moving on.