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Post Match: Arsenal v Liverpool (EPL 15/7/20 8.15pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 10 18.2%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 15 27.3%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Wijnaldum [off 83’]

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [off 61’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah [off 83’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Firmino [off 61’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane [GOAL 20’]

    Votes: 51 92.7%
  • Minamino [on 61’]

    Votes: 7 12.7%
  • Keita [on 61’]

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Shaqiri [on 83’]

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Origi [on 83’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .

Bob8

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
757
Yesterday I was fuming as probably most people would be after witnessing that. I just never have seen us in this situation that we already won it so dont have anything to play for. Was it like this before as well that the performance level dropped after we secured the title?
 

Red Armada

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
3,192
These players have been close to perfect for not one but two consecutive seasons. They may have said after the title was secured that they wanted to keep going and genuinely mean it, but in practice it is impossible not to relax. And at this level that's all it takes to start dropping points.
Yes it's highly annoying that we've pissed away the chance to overtake the cheating manc bastards' record but as long as they get it out of their system now and are ready to go by September, that's absolutely fine by me.

Even more important is that Klopp and Edwards use this run of games to draw conclusions and make some moves in the transfer market. The team needs fresh faces to plug holes and provide competition for places. Unfortunately there are financial limitations in place, for not cheating clubs that is, but going into a third season with essentially the same squad is asking for trouble.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
2,727
I was never bothered about the record points. It would be nice but the least of my concerns going into the start of the season.
What we’ve done is remarkable but some players have switched off and I don’t blame them for that at all. Alisson who has been amazing since he got here has been way off the pace since we won it along with a few others ands that’s totally fine so I’d rather play the fringe and younger players.
Really disappointed to see someone like Ox whose been poor since the restart starting every week ahead of Nabby or Jones. Williams should start every game as well. Elliot hasn’t got a kick. Minamino given drabs here and there.
I don’t really want to see origi and shaq coming on as hopefully they go at the end of the season.

we’ve done brilliantly but we don’t have the squad depth,we have a great 13/14 players then the drop is huge or we are hoping youngsters come in and hit the ground running.

really hoping we bring 1 or 2 fresh players in the summer. Champions should look to strengthen every year.
 

RodM

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
992
I remember the 1983 season! I think it was the last one I had the season ticket in the Kemlyn Road and the last few games were painful - mainly because my legs didn't fit in properly and I didn't have the footy to take my mind off it. They were lucky that the fans turned up because the players certainly didn't. Think Bob had taken early retirement by then.
 

Retro Helix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
494
Imagine lifting the EPL Trophy at the Kop end after losing to Chelsea.....just imagine....
 

Rambler

Bootle Boy
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Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
3,755
Yesterday I was fuming as probably most people would be after witnessing that. I just never have seen us in this situation that we already won it so dont have anything to play for. Was it like this before as well that the performance level dropped after we secured the title?
Yes....but the worst was only 2 points from the last 7 games in 1983 after clinching it......but there was a team that knew how to celebrate :ROFLMAO:

And they won it again the following season ;)
 

Retro Helix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
494
Our 'regular' first team starters have been looking so jaded recently so why not give starting opportunities to players like Takumi, Jones, Williams, Keita etc.??? Integrating the youngsters now would make more sense especially since Klopp made those comments about not signing any new players due to covid-19...blah blah blah. I'm sure as hell that if Keita started last night, he would have carved open that shit Arsehole defence.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
Ad-free Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
2,608
Yesterday I was fuming as probably most people would be after witnessing that. I just never have seen us in this situation that we already won it so dont have anything to play for. Was it like this before as well that the performance level dropped after we secured the title?
It sure has. On the two previous times we've won the title with plenty of games to spare, i.e. in 1983 and 1988, there was a dramatic drop in performance in the remaining games. For example, in 1983 we took just two points from our final seven games! o_O

Last night we were poor, very poor, but it is difficult to maintain intensity, to retain focus, once your primary objective has been achieved. The lads are simply demob happy.

The single most important objective this season was to win the league. Nothing more, nothing less.

Retaining the Champion's League would have been nice, but that would have been a bonus, as would golden boots & gloves, record numbers of points, home wins etc. etc. But they all come a poor second to the primary objective, which was to win the league.

Job done; can we go to the beach please? :cool:
 

Bluboots

King of Sardinia
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
264
I think it's clear to see the insane amount of focus and drive have gone... which is understandable as this fantastic team has won the title at a record pace without any real challenge. It was inevitable the performance will drop, so I don't have too many complaints.

While the team has been a bit sloppy, in general the team played well in recent games... but just haven't scored either to to uncharacteristic misses, world class saves, last ditch blocks and so on. I think we have been rather unlucky.

Even though I say this, I do think Mo has been one of the worst players on the pitch since the restart and I feel his selfishness around goal is showing. I think he wants the golden boot so it trying too hard to score for himself, rather than the team. I may be harsh but I hold a player of his caliber to high standards.

What does concern me for the future is the lack of effective cover for key players; as the players we do have just do not perform when asked. I don't know what the solution is. I think we have been fairly lucky regarding injuries this season so this flaw was not exposed. I do think the squad needs some new faces which can threaten the established front three, especially a new first team midfielder. Gini, Keita and Ox are good players but all are replaceable. There are better midfielders out there. But I can't be too harsh, they have been a key part of us winning the title after 30 years.

Probably too early to tell, but I think next season City will be favorites, simply due to their vast resources and now apparent free reign to spend what they want without restriction and with all indications the we have no money for anyone.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
But that isn't really true. A loss now means basically nothing. The league is won, and no one else is even in the time zone. Henderson's injury is real, 'form' is a construct that fans believe in. Next season has not already started, although this year it will come up incredibly quickly. Every side has had their 'summer break' already in a mentally exhausting time, so next season is going to be a grinding marathon. They do need to change their mentality quickly, but not necessarily now. I actually think we could benefit now from playing more of the marginal and youth players to give them a chance to show something, and let the first XI go into September better rested than anyone else.

Not the season I thought we were going to have as we started 2020, but everything else changed too. Focus is on #20 now, not bragging rights over Arsenal fans.
I wonder if there's an argument to say this little period of poor results will be a benefit to us next season. We've had about 26 months of consistent excellence from this side which has to take its toll mentally. A bit of a let up now, a bit of humbling, might just be what's needed to fire them up again for next season.

To play at the same level from the restart all the way through to the end of next season would be a mammoth task.

Yeah, trying to put a positive spin on some poor results, but why not? We're champions of everything.
 

Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
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Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
3,102
I think we are trying. Certainly in that second half we were but there are two things undermining us. The first is the usual thing of not being clinical enough and missing easy chances. The only way this current squad could be improved is by getting someone in who you can put your house on converting an easy chance because you can't say that about any of our front 3 for all their brilliance. The second is the loss of mentality and a lack of leadership when the senior pros like Henderson and Milner aren't around. Virgil is a great player and marshalls the defence really well but he is not a standard setter in the same way as they are. Thin line between confidence and arrogance and when it's too easy for us, as it was last night for the first 30 minutes, then we can slip the wrong side of the line.

I am pissed off that we're missing out on the record because at one stage it looked as though we would smash it but I am trying to keep perspective. There is so much about this period that is making it difficult for us to be at our best but it is disappointing that some of the fringe players really haven't taken their chance to impress.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
Yesterday I was fuming as probably most people would be after witnessing that. I just never have seen us in this situation that we already won it so dont have anything to play for. Was it like this before as well that the performance level dropped after we secured the title?
I think it was the 82 season. Wrapped it up with five to go and then lost four on the spin, before drawing the last game.

Before my time, but Souey talked about it on Sky last night. It wasn’t that they consciously dropped off. In fact that last game was Paisley’s last, and the players desperately wanted to win it for him. They just couldn’t couldn’t get up for the game.

We should remember this team have been absolutely relentless to get here. They’ve got virtually flawless for two years. That’s hugely draining, emotionally and physically. It stands to reason that there has been this performance equivalent of a sigh of relief.
 

sportbilly1966

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
3,779
In hindsight perhaps it is too much to hope for our players to put in 100% mental and physical effort after the title is won. It has been a long and tiring season. Thank God we won no.19! YNWA
Was just thinking along the same lines, but for me it has been 2 seasons of being at it both mentally and physically.

Maybe along with us the waiting 30 years and also after last seasons efforts, they need time a bit if time to recharge mentally and be ready to go again.
 

costared

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
3,709
Not going to go loony on this but I am very concerned that our " mentality monsters" will not be able to get back on track for next season. Teams know how to beat us now so we need to tweak things and become less predictable. I still feel a quality striker is needed . Sadly it looks like Origi is determined to stick around which makes that more difficult.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
3,291
After sleeping on it I feel a bit more relaxed about the last month. It's been shit tbh bar the Palace game but we haven't become a bad team overnight.
What is a real concern is the failure of the bench to stake a claim going into next season. Divock seems happy just to be here, a player his age should be champing at the bit to play games but he just doesn't look arsed. Time to move him on and it gives me no pleasure saying that.
Shaq and Lallana are gone. Keita has shown glimpses, Minamino is struggling to make an impact. Ox worries me the most, he has been pretty anonymous since coming back from his injury and it's hard to explain - only he and the club will know if it's still a fitness issue.
That leaves the usual 12 or 13 players who have run themselves into the ground the past 2 seasons plus an aging Milner and youngsters like Jones, Williams and Elliott. Not enough imo. We need to strengthen at LB, attacking mid and striker. I'm hearing good things about Danny Ings but i'm not sure he'd come.
Anyone think it might be an idea to play Bobby off the front 3? Playing him behind a proven goalscorer might be the way forward.
 

geebo

Geebo Age unknown !
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
9,749
The are so many games where dont turn up, or they arent switched on, or the opposition have suddenly upped there game. You have to be 100% focussed on the game and psychologically prepared for it. Liverpool have been doing thjis for 2 years, and bettr than most teams in the history of football, at a time when competition in the premier is at a high level. Last night just proved they are human. Winning the league has had a small but significant effect on their concentration- and at this level if can be the difference between winning and losing the game.

With the loss of the fans and the quarantine and the multiple changes to our everyday lifes, this "end of season" was bound to throw up anomalities anyway. Its quite possible that with out covid we would have gone on winning.
I think once football gets back to normality (who knows when) and the season re starts, Liverpool will be re charged and ready to play
 

Noo Noo

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Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
To be honest, I wanted to bury every single record we were able to, mainly because City held a lot of them and my disdain for them runs pretty deep right now to be honest. Last night I was pretty gutted that we let ourselves down again

But to be fair these guys have been immense for the best part of two seasons and have delivered trophies, big trophies, the biggest trophies. Disappointing as it is not win more games to really demonstrate our dominance this season I think it's fair to cut some slack.

They need to be back on it for next season though. No excuses.
 

Foldy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,428
I wondered if Klopp lost his shit with the team after the game, then I thought I doubt he would. I don't think there was one player in that team who took the piss last night and I don't think the reason for the loss is down to one factor. The lads looked shell shocked last night, like "How the fuck did that just happen!?" I'm not angry or upset about the result, I just want us to celebrate lifting the cup next week, revel in a fantastic historical season for us and look to the next one.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
Ad-free Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
2,608
I think it was the 82 season. Wrapped it up with five to go and then lost four on the spin, before drawing the last game.

Before my time, but Souey talked about it on Sky last night. It wasn’t that they consciously dropped off. In fact that last game was Paisley’s last, and the players desperately wanted to win it for him. They just couldn’t couldn’t get up for the game.

We should remember this team have been absolutely relentless to get here. They’ve got virtually flawless for two years. That’s hugely draining, emotionally and physically. It stands to reason that there has been this performance equivalent of a sigh of relief.
It was the 1982/83 season. We won the league, but lost 5 (including a 2-0 loss to Norwich at Anfield), and drew 2 of the last 7 games. (DLLLLDL)
 

nikz200

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
1,249
Not really arsed about the loss tbh. The thing that’s annoyed me the most since the restart is the club crying poor. We’ve made record profits last few years. We’ve literally had money coming in from everywhere. If we have no money what about the rest of the football clubs who run off a deficit and are way worse financially then us?! Why are they not complaining?! No other club has had our amount of success last few years with minimal outlay we should be swimming in it. It reminds me of a family member I despise who cries poor all day and has you shout him lunch/coffees etc then jumps in his Mercedes and drives home to his mansion while i’m left scraping pennies riding my push bike home.

Its very annoying as well because we were told things would be different once consistent Champions league football was back at liverpool and for the most part the success on and off the pitch has been evident, but the purchases and recruitment of Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho have been vital to our team becoming what it is today. Robertson as well has been very good shrewd business. I think the club should continue to look for talent and move on some of the players to keep things current and lively. But yeah, again you don't even have to spend huge amounts of money doing it, there are ways.

Honestly though, if the club want to take that stance its fine, because generally the results on the pitch allow them to take this stance and still reap benefits. But yeah, its worrying when the general fan base falls in line with this thinking and the club gets too complacent just because the lads won the one league by a huge margin. It won't be the margin that defines us as a all great team. It will be continued success for another 2 years onwards that will make this team a conquering Dynasty team like the liverpool of old, or the barcelona team that had iniesta and Xavi and messi,or the ruling madrid teams. I think also interesting to point out, if this was last season and we had a similar points tally, it might not have been enough to win the title even last season. So....... lets just see how it goes...... the one good thing is that the club is run in such a way that when we spend its usually where it doesn't put us in financial risk. So in that sense its being done right.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,507
No, it isn't a matter of coincidence either. 'Form' is a word that fans and pundits use to describe what they see, but that doesn't make it real. A team that is 'in form' is playing hard for each other, doing all the little things in each moment, focusing, etc. - none of that comes easily, even if the team is 'in form'. It isn't momentum so much as habit, plus attitude. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, and contrary to what fans and pundits think, it doesn't make things any easier, other than the way habits do. Show up to the park thinking you are going to win without working for it, and that is the day 'form' is gone. A team on a winning streak has confidence, which is valuable, but it needs to have fear. Fear that if you don't get cover on the forward on the corner, he gets a free header, gets a goal, and this is the day the streak ends....so you back into him to disrupt the header, knowing that you get flattened. 'Form' is just a third-party term that characterizes the result, not the process.

Where the problem with these matches comes is there is really nothing to fear. Not reaching the highest total ever, so that asterisk won't be there on a season that will be surely be asterisked no matter what? I'd take an uninjured Henderson over that, thanks. These are dead rubber hands we are playing now, they count for points, but otherwise they are not much more than friendlies.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reasonably certain form in a sporting context is from the word performance. Which is exactly how I see it. As you point out, it's nothing to do with results. We started the season a couple of years ago with a mix of wins and draws. The results just weren't falling our way, but as Klopp reminded us every post-match, we were performing to the standard he expected. We were never out-of-form even if the scoreboard didn't show it.

Performances and confidence are intrinsically linked. I use the word momentum in the same way I'd use the word confidence. You carry that confidence from one game to the next. You have the belief. You have the swagger and feel in the groove. Of course irrespective of your current confidence levels you need to be respectful of what your opponents can do, you still need to concentrate and work at 100% but the confidence can be what allows you to truly believe that the next game is winnable, or at worst you believe you have the tools to unlock the defence/ keep that golden boot winner quiet.

I'm not going to go on and on about how for the last 4-5 years you could throw a lasso around 10 or so games in a season and our performance (not necessarily results) would be vastly different to the other games. Im also not going to go into details about how we've had a poor start to a season on the back of a disconnected pre season where our performances just weren't there against ordinary teams. Eventually as the season wore on, we've been able to gain that confidence to dig us out of the rut. But you have to find that form (performance) and confidence through playing games and believing again.

I don't know what preseason is going to be like but I imagine it will be very short. Maybe just the 3-4 weeks the players get for holidays? I don't think you can flip performances on and off like a switch over this preseason any more than you can do the same over an international break. You need to work your way into it to get the mojo back. Right now I'm torn between giving these guys a break risking us being able to carry something into the next season, or to just play the kids.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,507
Not really arsed about the loss tbh. The thing that’s annoyed me the most since the restart is the club crying poor. We’ve made record profits last few years. We’ve literally had money coming in from everywhere. If we have no money what about the rest of the football clubs who run off a deficit and are way worse financially then us?! Why are they not complaining?! No other club has had our amount of success last few years with minimal outlay we should be swimming in it. It reminds me of a family member I despise who cries poor all day and has you shout him lunch/coffees etc then jumps in his Mercedes and drives home to his mansion while i’m left scraping pennies riding my push bike home.
Who is crying poor? The fans are demanding spending. And Coronavirus is a convenient excuse for a club with an outstanding squad and almost no holes to avoid doing that. I really admire him for it. Next season might turn to shit, but it very likely won't be because we didn't spend. Klopp will obviously get criticized if it does go bad. So yeah that's why I admire him.
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
3,958
I think the response is important, two games left, it is likely a first team will play against Chelsea, then some changes for the last game.
I hope not I want our strongest team possible and put Chelski down convincingly to redeem themselves and Klopp to make them understand they are playing for their place in the team And more importantly for their pride and in the dressing room I would plaster that Tweet from the shitty official web site “100” and after the game our tweet should just reply “CHAMPIONS”
 

Maria

EPL, European & FIFA World club Champions❤✊
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Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
17,375
It sure has. On the two previous times we've won the title with plenty of games to spare, i.e. in 1983 and 1988, there was a dramatic drop in performance in the remaining games. For example, in 1983 we took just two points from our final seven games! o_O

Last night we were poor, very poor, but it is difficult to maintain intensity, to retain focus, once your primary objective has been achieved. The lads are simply demob happy.

The single most important objective this season was to win the league. Nothing more, nothing less.

Retaining the Champion's League would have been nice, but that would have been a bonus, as would golden boots & gloves, record numbers of points, home wins etc. etc. But they all come a poor second to the primary objective, which was to win the league.

Job done; can we go to the beach please? :cool:
No, only after Wednesday:). They and we need to be focused and get as many points as possible ( I know I am clutching at straws here :rolleyes: ).



P.s Can I moan till 9 pm tonight please, thanks.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
Ad-free Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
2,608
Not really arsed about the loss tbh. The thing that’s annoyed me the most since the restart is the club crying poor. We’ve made record profits last few years. We’ve literally had money coming in from everywhere. If we have no money what about the rest of the football clubs who run off a deficit and are way worse financially then us?! Why are they not complaining?! No other club has had our amount of success last few years with minimal outlay we should be swimming in it. It reminds me of a family member I despise who cries poor all day and has you shout him lunch/coffees etc then jumps in his Mercedes and drives home to his mansion while i’m left scraping pennies riding my push bike home.
For a start, "profit" is not the same as cash.

E.g. if we buy two players (on 5 year contracts), for a combined value of £135 million, and sell another player (with a residual "book" value of £2 million) for £130 million, we make a "profit" in that financial year of £101 million.

How much of that "profit" can we spend the following year?

Answer: Nothing, it's all gone (we actually end up with £5 million less cash than when we started).

And don't forget that money has also been frittered away expanding the Main Stand, and developing the new training complex. :unsure:
 

jim bouki

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
198
Its very annoying as well because we were told things would be different once consistent Champions league football was back at liverpool and for the most part the success on and off the pitch has been evident, but the purchases and recruitment of Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho have been vital to our team becoming what it is today. Robertson as well has been very good shrewd business. I think the club should continue to look for talent and move on some of the players to keep things current and lively. But yeah, again you don't even have to spend huge amounts of money doing it, there are ways.

Honestly though, if the club want to take that stance its fine, because generally the results on the pitch allow them to take this stance and still reap benefits. But yeah, its worrying when the general fan base falls in line with this thinking and the club gets too complacent just because the lads won the one league by a huge margin. It won't be the margin that defines us as a all great team. It will be continued success for another 2 years onwards that will make this team a conquering Dynasty team like the liverpool of old, or the barcelona team that had iniesta and Xavi and messi,or the ruling madrid teams. I think also interesting to point out, if this was last season and we had a similar points tally, it might not have been enough to win the title even last season. So....... lets just see how it goes...... the one good thing is that the club is run in such a way that when we spend its usually where it doesn't put us in financial risk. So in that sense its being done right.
If the club decides to do no business at all if that's what they really want that's fine. This squad has proven it's more than good enough to win major trophies! I just don't like the way the club has put a spin on it. Any team that played in the premier league in the last 5 years would have earned £500m from tv rights alone. We've made more than everyone last 2 years at least so it feels like they're just making up excuses not to spend money. The rest of the clubs below us have much less than us and will most likely spend considerably more and they aren't complaining about finances.