• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Post Match: Aston Villa 0-1 Liverpool (Sturridge)

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,793
koptician said:
If we're going to have second halves like yesterday then we most definitely need another DM. If Stevie had to work like that on a semi-regular basis his legs will be gone by December...and what if Lucas gets injured again?
It's all been said many times, mate. We might as well all save our breath for all the difference it makes.

Bafflingly, it's not gonna happen, again, which will almost certainly cost us dear at some point this season, especially against the better teams we play.
 


Mr v

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
213
Mascot88 said:
The plus is is winning games like this bodes very well. The down side is that I'll be dead by November if it continues.
You are not wrong mascot. I can't take many more sphincter wobblers like that. Your post actually made me laugh out loud!!!!!!
 

T.C.B

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
7,124
SoueysTash said:
Good assessment of our defensive capabilities in this link...

http://www.statsbomb.com/2013/08/liverpools-defensive-shell/


If we can keep the defensive shell but couple it with a better counter attacking threat...we'll do well.

Be interesting to see if the "we need a defensive coach" crew raise their voices this season
I have always wondered how the Manager/Coach cannot organise and coach the defensive side of the game? Surely they are one and the same?
If we dont create and score goals will Brendan need an offensive coach too?
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,184
T.C.B said:
I have always wondered how the Manager/Coach cannot organise and coach the defensive side of the game? Surely they are one and the same?
If we dont create and score goals will Brendan need an offensive coach too?
Think it's just a stick for beating tbh, if defense is truly getting sorted (stiffer opposition should show that) then that's another stick BR has managed to dispose of...there'll always be something else though
 



Tetteh_Dalglish

Paul the Octopus
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
4,275
canucky008 said:
Wanted to go back and watch the game again before I had my say

Read alot if the posters in here and the common theme for the most part was the horrible second half and the reasons why we looked so disjointed

BR has to be given a massive thumbs up for having the balls to play this type of scrappy football after we secured the lead.

Hear me out...

It was no accident and not a bad day at the office. That's our arrogance talking. Aston Villa are a clinical counter attack team that has put Arsenal and almost Chelsea (bad luck) to the sword and if it wasn't for this tactic a Liverpool scalp surely

As I watched the game for a second time there was no accident in the hoof balling and two banks of four holding it up. Gerrard wasn't playing to deep he was meant to. Sturbridge wasn't playing to deep he was meant to. Coutinho and Henderson weren't pushing creative forward football because they weren't supposed to.

There is no arrogance in this Brendan Rodgers fellow.

He knew what was required to get 3 points and it was going to take ugly, low brow football.
If you want to step out of the boxing ring and have a street fight, then a street fight is what you're going to get

I attach a photo of what can happen when your arrogance of being a "better team " gets the best of you.
image.jpg
Villa have the makings of a very good side, but they aren't yet as good as you make them out to be. That said, they had a very good day at the office in terms of their movement and game play. Fabian Delph is a handful - a very intelligent player. Obviously Benteke is a nightmare for defenders, and they have some quick wingers. But credit to Paul Lambert for a couple of good signings and clearly some good work during the Summer organizing the team. If they can keep their confidence up and play like this fairly often, they will have a far better season than last year. That sub they brought on with the fierce left foot - Tonev or something and their midfielder Bacuna look like they could offer them a lot this year.

They played really well and at times pulled and dragged us out of position trying to create space. They were patient with the ball in the 2nd half and really tested our defensive organization. This is where I give the most credit to BR and our lads: last year our defensive shape wasn't nearly as organized as it was yesterday. Sure there were times they made it through and Mignolet was called on to earn the clean sheet, but a team with their pace, clever build up and Benteke will create chances. But for the most part we were organized and defended very well.

I would however, have liked us to keep the ball a lot better than we did and to be a bit more incisive on the attack. We didn't keep the ball well in the 2nd half, and that was partly because several of our attacking players did not have a good day. Johnson had a very ordinary/pedestrian day in the attacking half, Coutinho was not in his groove and neither Gerrard, Lucas or Henderson were really taking control of the ball in the middle of the park and calming things down. So we didn't have our best day, but some of that's because Villa were so organized and closed us down very well. Credit to them.

Coutinho - even on an off day you could see his thinking and creativity. He gets as much credit in my book for the assist because it was his cleverly sold dummy that played Sturridge through. Many an inferior player would have tried to control the ball and then play in Sturridge, and would have lost momentum or allowed their defense an extra second to slide over to cover him. And Villa realized he was a dangerman and he came in for the kind of late hacks that Suarez was often receiving last year and in his first season. This is why I'm licking my chops to have the two of them starting together. You can focus on one of them and try to prevent them from having space, but with both players jinking around and finding space between the lines, CBs and full backs following them into midfield trying to chop them down will leave space behind them for our overlapping full-backs and other forwards to take advantage of.

Agger - he had a pretty ordinary/bad day as well. He lost Benteke a couple of times and Mignolet and Toure had to cover up for him. He also got caught in possession in some dangerous areas. We can't afford that sort of shakiness on a repeated basis.

DM - old news. We need another one.

But all in all, 3 points. As BR said, grinding out a 1-0 is as good as winning 4-0 sometimes. And these sorts of matches remind everyone that we still have a lot of work to do. That's a good reminder at this stage of the season (we've actually had 2 of those reminders in 2 games) and to have 6 points on the board from narrow 1-0 wins where in previous seasons we'd have drawn or lost, that shows we're moving in the right direction.

Not bad for a one-man team.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

Open Your Eyes Morty!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
7,160
They are not the same, think of the manager giving the overall tactics, overall direction and the coaching staff working on the fine details. One of the reasons Mignolet made that penalty save last week, was because a goalkeeping coach had done his homework, and knew the Stoke player would shoot to his left (as he had in his last 5 or 6 penalties).

Mignolet was prepared, and knew what to expect.

The same thing happens all over the pitch, working on those fine details. From which man Agger or Toure should mark from a corner, to knowing player X likes to cut back on his right foot whenever possible to simply improving player positioning and movement relative to one another.

Rodgers of course has input, but it is impossible for 1 man to tailor each players approach. There is a good youtube video of Pascoe working our performance analyst (while at Swansea) . How they work together taking footage, player movement of opposition, and our players positions to prepare their defense. This is why our defensive coaching got blamed for drastic loss of form of our defenders especially from set pieces. (if anything it was not a stick for beating Rodgers with, but absolved him from much of the blame)

And yes, our coaches also work on the fine details with our attacking players also. ;)
 

huwzie

TIA Regular
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,465
Good win. In seasons past we would have either lost or drawn a game like that.
Second half we looked lost and it really showed we lack some experience from the bench.
We started to lose possession quite easily and it seemed like we were at panic stations for most the second half.

You got to hand it to Villa though and paul Lambert. An away win against a good team is plenty to smile about.
 

Bleech

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,678
T.C.B said:
If it was a deliberate tactic to defend deep then it worked except for one small detail. I would have brought Sterling on for Coutinho and played him up top. His pace would have been a real threat on the break and we might have sealed it earlier. All it would have taken was one decent ball over the top for him to chase to put the game to bed. Its a point that has been made before but I would start to think about using Raheem as a striker in these type of games.
I agree with what you're saying. Our counter attack could have been better for sure. Hopefully that will be something we will be looking to improve on in future. I'm surprised actually because I thought our counter attacking was very good last season. Perhaps we're just not quite at full power yet.
 



WrongIslander

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
3,214
I was impressed again with Aspas though I see he's coming in for some stick. He's not there yet and you can't really expect him to be after two games in a much faster league but once again he showed the kind of movement and link up play he will bring to the table and I am very happy with his signing.
 

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,065
  • Stats from Aston Villa v Liverpool

  • # Name MP. T DW ADW I

  • 10 Philippe Coutinho 83. 64 46.7% - -

  • 21 Lucas Leiva 90. 99 47.1% 100%. 3.

  • 9 Iago Aspas 69 38. - - -

  • 14 Jordan Henderson 90 67 41.7% 16.7% -

  • 8 Steven Gerrard 90 88 62.5% - 4

MP- Minutes played. T- Touches. DW - Duels Won %. ADW- Aerial Duels Won %. I- Interceptions.


# Name TP LP PA TC SC SA
10 Philippe Coutinho 48 6.3% 72.9% - - -
21Lucas Leiva 77 2.6% 90.9% - - -
9 Iago Aspas 35 5.7% 88.6% 1. - 1
14 Jordan Henderson 53 5.7% 83% 2 - 1
8 Steven Gerrard 70 10% 84.3% 4 - -

TP - Total passes. LP - Long Pass %. PA - Passing Accuracy %. TC - Total Crosses. SC- Successful Crosses %. SA- Shots Assists.


Numbers say Lucas wasn't that bad just not as great as he was last weekend.
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
23,714
MarlboroMan said:
  • Stats from Aston Villa v Liverpool

  • # Photo & Name MP T DW ADW I 10 Philippe Coutinho 83 64 46.7% - - 21 Lucas Leiva 90 99 47.1% 100% 3 9 Iago Aspas 69 38 - - - 14 Jordan Henderson 90 67 41.7% 16.7% - 8 Steven Gerrard 90 88 62.5% - 4

MP- Minutes played. T- Touches. DW - Duels Won %. ADW- Aerial Duels Won %. I- Interceptions.


# Photo & Name TP LP PA TC SC SA 10 Philippe Coutinho 48 6.3% 72.9% - - - 21 Lucas Leiva 77 2.6% 90.9% - - - 9 Iago Aspas 35 5.7% 88.6% 1 - 1 14 Jordan Henderson 53 5.7% 83% 2 - 1 8 Steven Gerrard 70 10% 84.3% 4 - -

TP - Total passes. LP - Long Pass %. PA - Passing Accuracy %. TC - Total Crosses. SC- Successful Crosses %. SA- Shots Assists.


Numbers say Lucas wasn't that bad just not as great as he was last weekend.
Don't think any of those statistics really speak to where his game was struggling, except possibly the very low long pass percentage. Compare Aspas' pass completion and long pass %. Something was wrong with Lucas' mental game yesterday, he was not seeing pressure as well as he can.
 

ajc56

Optimist
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
86
This was a very good win against a team that thrashed arsenal and was unlucky not to get a result against chelsea (have to sympathize with their opening fixture list). I think this villa team will take quite a few scalps this year, and I'm really happy we got three points from them on the road.
I agree that the second half was ugly to watch, but I also think it was a consequence of a deliberate tactical switch for the second half - Brendan knew Villa are dangerous on the counter attack, and would likely be uncomfortable forced into a less direct approach. For the most part, we restricted their chances to corner kicks and low-percentage chances.

It's true that benteke forced two very good saves from mignolet, but I think this just illustrates that no matter what, very good strikers will generate a chance or two per game (even in our worst defeats last year, suarez would sting the keeper's hands once or twice). I think it also helps to show that while reina was a tremendous keeper when it came to distribution, a great shot-stopper can win you more points.

I do think we were poor in the second half when it came to retaining possession on our counterattacks - we did not play well out of pressure and turned the ball over too frequently, with lucas, glen johnson, and coutinho not having their best games in this regard. I agree with some that perhaps putting sterling in would have made us more dangerous going forwards, especially with coutinho having an off-day, but i suspect this relates to rodger's plan for the midweek carling cup game.

For all the belly-aching about what this WIN looked like, we have won our first two games (both could have been tricky), which gives us a great platform going forward. Bring on the mancs and their manager who has never won at anfield.
 

Tetteh_Dalglish

Paul the Octopus
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
4,275
MarlboroMan said:
  • Stats from Aston Villa v Liverpool

  • # Name MP. T DW ADW I

  • 10 Philippe Coutinho 83. 64 46.7% - -

  • 21 Lucas Leiva 90. 99 47.1% 100%. 3.

  • 9 Iago Aspas 69 38. - - -

  • 14 Jordan Henderson 90 67 41.7% 16.7% -

  • 8 Steven Gerrard 90 88 62.5% - 4

MP- Minutes played. T- Touches. DW - Duels Won %. ADW- Aerial Duels Won %. I- Interceptions.


# Name TP LP PA TC SC SA
10 Philippe Coutinho 48 6.3% 72.9% - - -
21Lucas Leiva 77 2.6% 90.9% - - -
9 Iago Aspas 35 5.7% 88.6% 1. - 1
14 Jordan Henderson 53 5.7% 83% 2 - 1
8 Steven Gerrard 70 10% 84.3% 4 - -

TP - Total passes. LP - Long Pass %. PA - Passing Accuracy %. TC - Total Crosses. SC- Successful Crosses %. SA- Shots Assists.


Numbers say Lucas wasn't that bad just not as great as he was last weekend.
Source please?
 



SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,184
MarlboroMan said:
...snip...

Numbers say Lucas wasn't that bad just not as great as he was last weekend.
Shows how useful stats are in isolation...Lucas was terrible when the ball was in his area of the pitch, he really did let the team down. Gerrard did a far better job and he's still learning the position...
 

No Men in the Box Redux

Keyboard Warrior
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,976
SoueysTash said:
Shows how useful stats are in isolation...Lucas was terrible when the ball was in his area of the pitch, he really did let the team down. Gerrard did a far better job and he's still learning the position...
Out of likes for the day but wholeheartedly agree.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,207
SoueysTash said:
Shows how useful stats are in isolation...Lucas was terrible when the ball was in his area of the pitch, he really did let the team down. Gerrard did a far better job and he's still learning the position...
Big difference is when playing Stoke we were not pressed by their player quickly, their midfield although is rather physical not as good as Villa's. Villa closed him down fairly quickly and that gave him a problem of sorting his feet out. Caught on possession a fair bit in that game. There will be more mistakes if we play defensive because he will be under a lot more pressure.
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,184
lfc.eddie said:
Big difference is when playing Stoke we were not pressed by their player quickly, their midfield although is rather physical not as good as Villa's. Villa closed him down fairly quickly and that gave him a problem of sorting his feet out. Caught on possession a fair bit in that game. There will be more mistakes if we play defensive because he will be under a lot more pressure.
It doesn't matter whether we're playing defensively or not, if Lucas can't play whilst under pressure then I really don't think he's a player we should be keeping on the books longer term. His job is to break up play and give the ball quickly, that's his role...he failed too often in that yesterday.

I think the whole coming back from injury thing isn't really an excuse, I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job in the system. He might just have had a bad day and I hope he proves me wrong. If Gerrard & Toure hadn't baby sat him - it could've been a lot worse.

Edit: In addition...if I were an opposing team manager I'd be putting Lucas under constant pressure...bound to result in some goals and that's the real danger with the lackadaisical approach he showed yesterday
 

Toro

Florida Red
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
1,796
Apart from the victory, the best thing about the Aston Villa match was our outstanding away kit!
 



WrinkledMind

Living A Life Consumed By Slow Decay.
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,665
I was impressed by Gerrard's desire to cover up for Lucas and he put in a really terrific defensive shift.Kind of a waste of his attacking talents but he did what the team needed.Showed a tremendous amount of maturity.

Saw a completely different side of Sturridge when he put in a lot of defensive work, in the second half.At one time he even covered for Glen, all the way at the right back.

Thought the subs were a wee bit weird.Cissokho's substitution felt more of a show of new signing.Allen disappointed.Was there for a very short time and yet got bullied off the ball at least 3 times.Also exposed the need for us to have another DM.I hope BR tries to sign one.We desperately need another DM option.
 

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,065
SoueysTash said:
It doesn't matter whether we're playing defensively or not, if Lucas can't play whilst under pressure then I really don't think he's a player we should be keeping on the books longer term. His job is to break up play and give the ball quickly, that's his role...he failed too often in that yesterday.

I think the whole coming back from injury thing isn't really an excuse, I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job in the system. He might just have had a bad day and I hope he proves me wrong. If Gerrard & Toure hadn't baby sat him - it could've been a lot worse.

Edit: In addition...if I were an opposing team manager I'd be putting Lucas under constant pressure...bound to result in some goals and that's the real danger with the lackadaisical approach he showed yesterday
That's way too harsh. To pass the ball quickly you need options and players moving to receive the ball. When we sat back and defended, there wasn't much of that going on thus he had no options but to hold on to the ball for that split second longer. The only option is just wildly clearly the ball. Now I'm saying he was great but he wasn't bad either. We all want someone quicker and stronger than Lucas in that DM role but Lucas didn't need to be babysat, he was just his job decently well. I read on twitter someone calling him a stupid c*nt or something similar which is beyond uncalled for. I'm not saying he was our best player but he wasn't as bad as some here are saying he was.

We clearly need that physical presence in midfield and can also fly around plus they need to be good on the ball, have awareness and be a good passer. Those players cost over 20m and there aren't very many of them. I'd love someone like that, don't get me wrong but I'm fine with Lucas for now.

Tetteh_Dalglish said:
Source please?
Opta, LFC website.
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,184
MarlboroMan said:
That's way too harsh. To pass the ball quickly you need options and players moving to receive the ball. When we sat back and defended, there wasn't much of that going on thus he had no options but to hold on to the ball for that split second longer. The only option is just wildly clearly the ball. Now I'm saying he was great but he wasn't bad either. We all want someone quicker and stronger than Lucas in that DM role but Lucas didn't need to be babysat, he was just his job decently well. I read on twitter someone calling him a stupid c*nt or something similar which is beyond uncalled for. I'm not saying he was our best player but he wasn't as bad as some here are saying he was.
"Wildly clearing the ball" is a far better decision than giving the ball back to the opposition

I'm not chucking around insults pal...I'm simply providing constructive criticism of players performance. He struggled when he should have excelled. As a DM you should thrive on sitting a bit deeper, putting in tackles and playing the simple ball, he didn't and it was telling...against sterner opposition, we'll be punished.

Watch Manure be all over him next week as a result of this weekends performance.
 

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,065
SoueysTash said:
"Wildly clearing the ball" is a far better decision than giving the ball back to the opposition

I'm not chucking around insults pal...I'm simply providing constructive criticism of players performance. He struggled when he should have excelled. As a DM you should thrive on sitting a bit deeper, putting in tackles and playing the simple ball, he didn't and it was telling...against sterner opposition, we'll be punished.

Watch Manure be all over him next week as a result of this weekends performance.
Again you need players moving to pass the ball and our attacking players weren't getting open to receive the ball.

And I bet Lucas will be good next week against United, you can think he won't be and that's on you but Lucas has already proven that he plays well against United and Everton so I'm betting he'll play well again. :)
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,184
MarlboroMan said:
Again you need players moving to pass the ball and our attacking players weren't getting open to receive the ball.

And I bet Lucas will be good next week against United, you can think he won't be and that's on you but Lucas has already proven that he plays well against United and Everton so I'm betting he'll play well again. :)
Gerrard didn't seem to have that problem...

I'm not bashing lucas carte blanche I'm just bashing his performance in this game - he needs to improve, plays like that against Manure and he'll be in the shit
 



RichLFC

Always one of us. RIP.
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
11,674
Toro said:
Apart from the victory, the best thing about the Aston Villa match was our outstanding away kit!
Orrible weren't it...

On the performance itself, yep, similarly a bit scruffy. Some players didnt look in the best of form and tbh in the second half you did get that feeling that we would definitely not score. 1-0 is not a safe lead for us. But what I was looking for was concentration and effort as a collective to not fuck up when ahead and give points away. That pissed me off so much in recent years. Guess though it was close last week and this, it was achieved both weeks and has been something missing from us in recent times. So despite some obvious issues regarding creativity, set piece defending etc am sort of an any means necessary mindset with these things. Get something from the Man U game and we would probably looked to have started as we meant to go on. Could certainly do with a couple more first team additions but its nice I guess not to have to play catch up just yet

Need another outlet or two alongside Coutinho because he's clearly gonna be a marked man this season, literally. Teams are not as scared of Aspas and Henderson though they work hard, they won't hurt you as much. Though when Suarez returns that will be one outlet sorted for the time being. But long term...
 

Defuz

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
301
RichLFC said:
Need another outlet or two alongside Coutinho because he's clearly gonna be a marked man this season, literally. Teams are not as scared of Aspas and Henderson though they work hard, they won't hurt you as much. Though when Suarez returns that will be one outlet sorted for the time being. But long term...
They tried to close down Coutinho quickly, but his mobility often thwarted them. He does exceptionally well finding and creating space to move into, receiving and when on the ball. That said, their close attention sometimes forced him into lanes he didn't want to travel in and passes he couldn't quite find anyone with. Last year I saw the development of his being able to make great plays laying the ball off and creating for others. It's obvious he strikes fear into defenses, but it's going to take a little time for him to develop his game to the next level. I suspect he will soon be able to better deal with tighter marking from sometimes two defenders and then provide quality connections when he has the ball. It's obvious he has all of the tools and it's a real delight to watch him grow, especially as he has a Liverbird on his shirt!
 

ptt

2020, head of the table.
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
14,834
If I was at a PC I'd start a new thread but I've no idea what to call it. "Will we win the league" "When will we win the league" "Where will we finish" "How gorgeous will out annihilation of United be"? All good questions but somebody please put some thought in and open THE thread :)
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,207
ptt said:
If I was at a PC I'd start a new thread but I've no idea what to call it. "Will we win the league" "When will we win the league" "Where will we finish" "How gorgeous will out annihilation of United be"? All good questions but somebody please put some thought in and open THE thread :)
Probably be locked fairly swiftly too....
 

REDSkins

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,321
Huge boost to earn another clean sheet, particularly in the manner we did. Glad to see Sturridge put in that kind of 90 minute performance against a mid-table side. And thrilled that Mignolet is getting a solid start; hugely important for a GK.

Another attacking signing would really help us push on, though. But great to see us hold on for a win, again. Building belief and camaraderie