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Post match: Barcelona v Liverpool (UCL 1/5/19 8pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matip

    Votes: 46 34.8%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 55 41.7%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • Milner [off 85’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Wijnaldum [off 78’]

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • Keita [off 24’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • Salah

    Votes: 12 9.1%
  • Henderson [on 22’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Firmino [on 78’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Origi [on 85’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
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jaffod

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I suppose if winning's more important than the rules of the game maybe we should start bribing the referees too.
Right on cue, the holier than thou brigade arrive.

Don't know if you remember a time when we won European Cups and league titles but I do and I can tell you we had players who would beat teams fair and square, but if those teams wanted to mix it we'd sort them and beat them anyway.
 

Noo Noo

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Of course you are right.
But after 60 pages of discussion (that you contributed to when it suited you) its not something you want in a thread about a very dissapointing defeat.
I think the original post by @Noo Noo was in jest, and thats fair enough.
yes it was. I'm fully comfortable with what happened on Wednesday unlike some posters it seems who always seem to be looking for a scapegoat or at best are still wearing some rose tinted glasses.

yes I'm disappointed at the result but considering the reasons behind the result are so fine / marginal I'm comfortable with it. What we saw was a Liverpool side pretty much dominate Barcelona on their own patch at times and only let down by some poor finishing with the addition of the best player in the world and possibly ever. A guy that has scored on average over 50 goals per season for the last 10 years.

For me it's about that final little piece or step that will catapult this side from a nearly side to one that will actually win trophies and potentially lots of them. I would say that our discussions from here to next season should in part discuss what that final piece is. It could be mental, it could be one player. I'm not sure.
 

Noo Noo

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Nailed it. We gave em too much fucking respect. We played well but really. Their players were mouthy and confrontational, our lads are great players, they just need a kick to get them into a gear where they believe they have the supreme right to inhabit the pitch as well. Allison trod on Suarez' foot at some point, the cunt gets aggro and our 6 foot and a lot, pretty darn big and extremely masculine looking goalie is going all 'all sorry sir'. Wijnaldum was down, did the boot the ball out? Like fuck they did.

We need a swagger. The pitch fucking belongs to us and fuck everyone else. Refs must love to referee our games and teams like Barca, Madrid and all teams of that ilk must love to play us. Not because we're shit but because we're never gonna really give a ref too much to think about and because we're gonna spend 90 minutes apologising our way through. I've said it before and I will say it again. We are just too fucking nice. The only one with that streak is Mané, he needs to have a sot down with a few of the other lads.
I'm not sure that we did. The game became pretty niggly which is a sure sign that we were doing stuff and they didn't like it. Our problem was that they were more than happy to go tit for tat and to be honest they are far better at it than we are. That's what you get every game, every day in the Spanish and Italian leagues in particular. These two leagues wrote the manual on "gamesmanship" and continue to update it.

We just need to carry on gaining experience with it and understanding it and how to get round it. Again I refer to my thoughts on the final pieces mentioned in my post above.
 



Lazybones

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Right on cue, the holier than thou brigade arrive.

Don't know if you remember a time when we won European Cups and league titles but I do and I can tell you we had players who would beat teams fair and square, but if those teams wanted to mix it we'd sort them and beat them anyway.
Yeah - fair point. It's just that I can't help but feel down on teams and players that cheat their way to victory. Like Neymar floundering about like he's been shot, or Ramos ... being as he is. I honestly can't feel any admiration or respect for Real Madrid and the way they won last year and I'd hate for Liverpool to become like that. Even this year there have been people saying we've only won games because Salah dived. And that hurts sometimes because it's felt true. I want Liverpool to outclass teams rather than outcheat them.
 

Lowton_Red

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I suppose if winning's more important than the rules of the game maybe we should start bribing the referees too.
Who said anything about breaking the rules? Being more streetwise is not breaking the rules.

The Corinthian spirit of "play up, play up and play the game" although admirable, is no longer applicable. Sadly, gentlemanly sportsmanship will not win cups and titles in modern times. And clearly the days of an honest enforcer, e.g. the Anfield Iron, have gone; I loved the bones of him, but Tommy Smith wouldn't last five minutes in the modern game.

So we must adapt to what referees will allow. If they only respond to players being in their faces, then that's what we have to do. My major criticism of Hendo as captain, is that he isn't vociferous enough. It might be unseemly to be constantly in the refs ear, but if that's what it takes to get the decisions that should rightly be in our favour, then we must do it.

As for bribing refs, you're just being melodramatic. No-one is remotely close to suggesting that, but you don't honestly believe the likes of Real Madrid, Barca and shiteh haven't considered doing it if they thought they had a better than evens chance of getting away with it?
 

jaffod

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Yeah - fair point. It's just that I can't help but feel down on teams and players that cheat their way to victory. Like Neymar floundering about like he's been shot, or Ramos ... being as he is. I honestly can't feel any admiration or respect for Real Madrid and the way they won last year and I'd hate for Liverpool to become like that. Even this year there have been people saying we've only won games because Salah dived. And that hurts sometimes because it's felt true. I want Liverpool to outclass teams rather than outcheat them.
Don't get me wrong, I'd hate it if we ended up as snide as some of the Spanish teams but there are areas where we can be a lot smarter. Classic example was Karius in the CL final, get's elbowed by the cunt and springs back up straight away. Can you imagine that happening had it been a 'keeper from one of the Spanish, Italian or Portuguese clubs? Not a chance, they'd still be rolling around now.
Next week we should be looking to get their players booked at every opportunity. Make a meal of any contact, get in the ref's face, crowd should be fired up to try and get in the ref's head. Suarez could be like a loose cannon on Tuesday if the crowd give him shit and the players provoke him enough. Don't know if cards carry over into the final, if they do they'll know their on a knife edge all game.
If it looks like we're going out I'd like to see Lovren or Fabinho but in a season-ender on one of them. Just like they did with Naby. Nice guys win nothing in today's game.
 

Barnestormer

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Right on cue, the holier than thou brigade arrive.

Don't know if you remember a time when we won European Cups and league titles but I do and I can tell you we had players who would beat teams fair and square, but if those teams wanted to mix it we'd sort them and beat them anyway.
+10 we have to get more 'game smart' again.
 

dockers_strike

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Messages
740
I think Trent would have helped us create more chances.
One might have been taken.
And as good as the free kick from Messi was, if Gomez had moved his head towards the ball instead of ducking away from it, it wouldn't have been a goal.
Well I might win the lottery if I buy 10 lines instead of 9. Fact is we have to deal with realities and eventualities. The players who got great chances to score didnt. As for the comment about Messi's free kick goal and Gomez's head, dear lord, how desparate is that to try and prove a point?
 



William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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IT will have to be all out attack when Barca visit next week. What would be the point of going at it defensively when we are already 3-0 down. No, don't attack and leave ourselves wide open, I can envisage some fans saying, but does it really matter if we get beat 3-0 or 6-0, a defeat is still a defeat whatever way you look at it. It's better to go down fighting if we have to go down to a defeat. You never know, a quick couple of goals and Barca would be definitely on edge, and it could be the undoing of them.

ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK and let's see if we can pull this tie around. :well done:
 

Limiescouse

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I'm not sure that we did. The game became pretty niggly which is a sure sign that we were doing stuff and they didn't like it. Our problem was that they were more than happy to go tit for tat and to be honest they are far better at it than we are. That's what you get every game, every day in the Spanish and Italian leagues in particular. These two leagues wrote the manual on "gamesmanship" and continue to update it.

We just need to carry on gaining experience with it and understanding it and how to get round it. Again I refer to my thoughts on the final pieces mentioned in my post above.
Pretty much. There was a ton we did to contribute to this and so to say we were little angels demonstrates a perspective that preemptively has determined that only they can do wrong. Milner was kicking Messi off the ball all over the park. Robbo sneakily started the shithousing with Suarez. What I think our approach was though was to try and stay above teh fray. Get our kicks in and then pretend nothing happened and let them lose their cool. I think Mane and Salah could have done a lot more to sell the absurd lengths to which their players were manhandling them. That one near the center circle where Sergi rugby tackled Mane a yard from the ref and the ref let go was absolutely absurd. But outside of that we played our part in skating the rules to try and get in their heads.
 
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William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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Pretty much. There was a ton we did to contribute to this and so to say we were little angels demonstrates a perspective that preemptively has determined that only they can do wrong. Milner was kicking Milner all over the park. Robbo sneakily started the shithousing with Suarez. What I think our approach was though was to try and stay above teh fray. Get our kicks in and then pretend nothing happened and let them lose their cool. I think Mane and Salah could have done a lot more to sell the absurd lengths to which their players were manhandling them. That one near the center circle where Sergi rugby tackled Mane a yard from the ref and the ref let go was absolutely absurd. But outside of that we played our part in skating the rules to try and get in their heads.
I take it the following sentence of yours, @Limiescouse , is a wee error: "Milner was kicking Milner all over the park"?
 



Commando

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Don't get me wrong, I'd hate it if we ended up as snide as some of the Spanish teams but there are areas where we can be a lot smarter. Classic example was Karius in the CL final, get's elbowed by the cunt and springs back up straight away. Can you imagine that happening had it been a 'keeper from one of the Spanish, Italian or Portuguese clubs? Not a chance, they'd still be rolling around now.
Next week we should be looking to get their players booked at every opportunity. Make a meal of any contact, get in the ref's face, crowd should be fired up to try and get in the ref's head. Suarez could be like a loose cannon on Tuesday if the crowd give him shit and the players provoke him enough. Don't know if cards carry over into the final, if they do they'll know their on a knife edge all game.
If it looks like we're going out I'd like to see Lovren or Fabinho but in a season-ender on one of them. Just like they did with Naby. Nice guys win nothing in today's game.
As to the above Karius example. Sadio did it early on in Wednesday’s game. He was brought down in the area, ref raised his whistle to his lips, Sadio jumped up and the ref waved play on.
The commentary team on BT pointed it out. Their thinking was that if Sadio stays down we get a pen. Come Tuesday, let’s hope we play on ANY contact to get whatever we can.
 

Dane

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Well I might win the lottery if I buy 10 lines instead of 9. Fact is we have to deal with realities and eventualities. The players who got great chances to score didnt. As for the comment about Messi's free kick goal and Gomez's head, dear lord, how desparate is that to try and prove a point?
He moved his head out the way.
I couldn't give a fuck about proving a point, or your lottery tickets.
 
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Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
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As to the above Karius example. Sadio did it early on in Wednesday’s game. He was brought down in the area, ref raised his whistle to his lips, Sadio jumped up and the ref waved play on.
The commentary team on BT pointed it out. Their thinking was that if Sadio stays down we get a pen. Come Tuesday, let’s hope we play on ANY contact to get whatever we can.
It's not as simple though, it depends on the ref. With a ref like Kuiper, it could have worked indeed. But for what we know, the next ref could give him a yellow for trying to con him if he makes such an attempt. I think that the expertise of teams like Real or Barca is to know very well which ref is in charge, and how to influence him best following on how the game unfolds.

That's something our lads need to improve on, in my humble opinion.
 

Limiescouse

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As to the above Karius example. Sadio did it early on in Wednesday’s game. He was brought down in the area, ref raised his whistle to his lips, Sadio jumped up and the ref waved play on.
The commentary team on BT pointed it out. Their thinking was that if Sadio stays down we get a pen. Come Tuesday, let’s hope we play on ANY contact to get whatever we can.
There is history of Sadio being fouled like that and not getting calls. I don't get it as it is an unambiguous foul. I dont know what it is about our forwards that makes ref think it is ok to manhandle them. I wonder if they are in part being penalized for their physical strength with refs thinking the amount of contact has to be more than normal to actual impact them?
 

Red over the water

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5-1 at Anfield. That’s what we are going to do to Barcelona.

Leaving for Atlantis in the Bahamas early tomorrow. Mrs ROTW not overly impressed that all I’ve been talking about is where we can catch the Newcastle and Barcelona games. I think Newcastle will be a narrow Liverpool win, and Leicester will score 2 at the Etihad. Whether that’s enough to get anything from the game for them remains to be seen, but Brendan can set up an attacking game and he has some players at Leicester to hopefully do something useful.
 



dockers_strike

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He moved his head out the way.
I couldn't give a fuck about proving a point, or your lottery tickets.
Come on mate. You're better than that. That's what Id expect a plastic fan to say. You need to give your head a shake.
 

Limiescouse

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5-1 at Anfield. That’s what we are going to do to Barcelona.

Leaving for Atlantis in the Bahamas early tomorrow. Mrs ROTW not overly impressed that all I’ve been talking about is where we can catch the Newcastle and Barcelona games.
That is not the end of it. You and I have Mother's day to deal with the following weekend. I told the missus that Hull a great side to watch and she'll enjoy her mother's day immensely
 

Dane

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Come on mate. You're better than that. That's what Id expect a plastic fan to say. You need to give your head a shake.
So he didn't duck his head out the way?
It's an observation, nothing more.
I'm not slating the lad, and WTF does being a plastic fan have to do with anything?
 

Lowton_Red

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...But for what we know, the next ref could give him a yellow for trying to con him if he makes such an attempt.
Seeing how Kuipers gave them practically everything throughout the match, I think your assessment is correct; if Mané stayed down, he would have received a yellow card for simulation.
I think that the expertise of teams like Real or Barca is to know very well which ref is in charge, and how to influence him
No doubt the unmarked notes in a plain brown envelope proved fairly effective :shocked:
 

Hope in your heart

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Seeing how Kuipers gave them practically everything throughout the match, I think your assessment is correct; if Mané stayed down, he would have received a yellow card for simulation.

No doubt the unmarked notes in a plain brown envelope proved fairly effective :shocked:
I wasn't really thinking about corruption, although it can never be excluded entirely. But Kuipers is just a plain bad ref. He's around since a long time now, I've seen him plenty of times in CL games, also when we are not involved. He strikes me as one who can easily be swayed by the players. At one moment during the game, Milner went into Messi in a rough challenge. Messi 'did a Neymar', and rolled himself around during a minute. Milner got the yellow card. Messi did this repeatedly during the game, and every time, our players got in trouble. Once, Messi was even caught by the camera how he looked at the ref after rolling himself around, and then had a good laugh because he had got what he wanted.

I'm sure that these Spanish and Italian clubs pass quite some time scouting refs and studying their in-game reactions, and then tell their players how to act accordingly. Some refs are weaker than others and can be swayed, Kuiper is definitely one of them. If Mané had rolled himself around after being fouled in the box, I'm quite sure that he would have got a penalty.

So, I think that in order to get better in these close ties, our squad has to learn to practice the dark arts too. Not cheating per se, not injuring other players or so, but knowing what the ref's personality is, how he reacts in games, and then ruthlessly take advantage of any perceived weaknesses. That's what Barca did, and it helped them massively.
 



Lowton_Red

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I wasn't really thinking about corruption, although it can never be excluded entirely. But Kuipers is just a plain bad ref. He's around since a long time now, I've seen him plenty of times in CL games, also when we are not involved. He strikes me as one who can easily be swayed by the players. At one moment during the game, Milner went into Messi in a rough challenge. Messi 'did a Neymar', and rolled himself around during a minute. Milner got the yellow card. Messi did this repeatedly during the game, and every time, our players got in trouble. Once, Messi was even caught by the camera how he looked at the ref after rolling himself around, and then had a good laugh because he had got what he wanted.

I'm sure that these Spanish and Italian clubs pass quite some time scouting refs and studying their in-game reactions, and then tell their players how to act accordingly. Some refs are weaker than others and can be swayed, Kuiper is definitely one of them. If Mané had rolled himself around after being fouled in the box, I'm quite sure that he would have got a penalty.

So, I think that in order to get better in these close ties, our squad has to learn to practice the dark arts too. Not cheating per se, not injuring other players or so, but knowing what the ref's personality is, how he reacts in games, and then ruthlessly take advantage of any perceived weaknesses. That's what Barca did, and it helped them massively.
I know you weren't. It was my feeble attempt at gallows humour. Sorry. :((

I agree with you; as a team we must become more streetwise.
 

Flobs

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I wasn't really thinking about corruption, although it can never be excluded entirely. But Kuipers is just a plain bad ref. He's around since a long time now, I've seen him plenty of times in CL games, also when we are not involved. He strikes me as one who can easily be swayed by the players. At one moment during the game, Milner went into Messi in a rough challenge. Messi 'did a Neymar', and rolled himself around during a minute. Milner got the yellow card. Messi did this repeatedly during the game, and every time, our players got in trouble. Once, Messi was even caught by the camera how he looked at the ref after rolling himself around, and then had a good laugh because he had got what he wanted.

I'm sure that these Spanish and Italian clubs pass quite some time scouting refs and studying their in-game reactions, and then tell their players how to act accordingly. Some refs are weaker than others and can be swayed, Kuiper is definitely one of them. If Mané had rolled himself around after being fouled in the box, I'm quite sure that he would have got a penalty.

So, I think that in order to get better in these close ties, our squad has to learn to practice the dark arts too. Not cheating per se, not injuring other players or so, but knowing what the ref's personality is, how he reacts in games, and then ruthlessly take advantage of any perceived weaknesses. That's what Barca did, and it helped them massively.
If you ask me I think 'we' LFC had done our homework on this ref. He seemed to be a ref that reacts to players and crowd. It looked like to me we were aware of this and tried calming each situation down. I reckon if we hadn't the Barça crowd would have got the better of that ref and we would have been on a hiding to nothing.
He is a terrible ref!
 

William Clarke

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If you ask me I think 'we' LFC had done our homework on this ref. He seemed to be a ref that reacts to players and crowd. It looked like to me we were aware of this and tried calming each situation down. I reckon if we hadn't the Barça crowd would have got the better of that ref and we would have been on a hiding to nothing.
He is a terrible ref!
Thankfully, we won't get him in the return leg at Anfield - thanks be for small mercies. :rolleyes:
 

kiwiredman

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Next week we should be looking to get their players booked at every opportunity. Make a meal of any contact, get in the ref's face, crowd should be fired up to try and get in the ref's head. Suarez could be like a loose cannon on Tuesday if the crowd give him shit and the players provoke him enough. Don't know if cards carry over into the final, if they do they'll know their on a knife edge all game.
No chance Suarez is a loose cannon. He is the epitome of self-control and has the track record to prove it. :tongue:;-)
 



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