POST MATCH: Burnley v Liverpool (EPL 5/12/2018 7.45pm)

Man of the Match

  • Alisson

  • Gomez (off 23)

  • Matip

  • Van Dijk

  • Moreno (off 65)

  • Henderson

  • Keita

  • Milner

  • Shaqiri

  • Sturridge

  • Origi (off 65)

  • Alexander-Arnold (on 23)

  • Firmino (on 65)

  • Salah (on 65)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Irishanfield

Internet Terrorist
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
3,619
Likes
6,622
I agree with Dyche.

Football in my opinion to sanitised. Players are over protected prima Donna's.

The tough tackle should always be in our game. Intimidating your opposition has and always should be a part of the game.

There's an art to the hard tackle, the sly threat or at times the thuggish moment.

Players get hurt they always have and always will, it's part and parcel of professional football.

How many times has a Liverpool player slammed in to an opposing player and woke the crowd up.

I agree with most of what Klopp says - this time I can't.

Yeah Gomez is hurt but it is really just an occupational hazard.

All the pathetic comments about Dyche serve no purpose but to highlight the modern day ignorance about the game we all say we love

Shit happens - get well soon Joe and next time you come up against Mee don't forget payback time is sweet.
100% agree with this post
 

Irishanfield

Internet Terrorist
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
3,619
Likes
6,622
Tough tackles should happen, but not on a night like that. It was raining, the ball was wet, the players were sliding all over the pitch.

It you go in heavy youve got no control at stopping yourself. Its just an accident waiting to happen.
Eh ?
You want to only allow hard tackles with certain weather conditions ?
 

Rambler

Bootle Boy
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
2,729
Likes
2,784
I agree with Dyche.

Football in my opinion to sanitised. Players are over protected prima Donna's.

The tough tackle should always be in our game. Intimidating your opposition has and always should be a part of the game.

There's an art to the hard tackle, the sly threat or at times the thuggish moment.

Players get hurt they always have and always will, it's part and parcel of professional football.

How many times has a Liverpool player slammed in to an opposing player and woke the crowd up.

I agree with most of what Klopp says - this time I can't.

Yeah Gomez is hurt but it is really just an occupational hazard.

All the pathetic comments about Dyche serve no purpose but to highlight the modern day ignorance about the game we all say we love

Shit happens - get well soon Joe and next time you come up against Mee don't forget payback time is sweet.
Spot on...I don't want to see our players pulling out of tackles because the pitch is wet and they might hurt someone. Ask any of our former players about that tackle and I bet every single one would say it was just tough luck. Everyone on here would have applauded a similar tackle by Robertson on Fellaini or Hazard and quite rightly so. Did anyone ever complain that Stevie G went in a bit hard there?

Playing the likes of Burnley on a wet night in December is a part of English football. Always was and always will be, I hope. Dalglish and Rush had to put up with far rougher play than what went on last night.

If you think refs are lenient now take a look on YouTube at the likes of Tommy Smith, Norman Hunter and Billy Bremner.

It is a remarkable fact that Tommy only got sent off once.........for swearing at the ref.
 
Last edited:

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
17,077
Likes
12,889
Except Referees don't call the offsides...........ever.

It was extremely marginal in any case and decisions like that happen in almost every game and will do so until they use VAR to confirm the validity of every single goal.
I stand to be corrected here, but the boy that bundles the thing in the net starts a few yards offside in the same phase of play.

To me there is two offsides there, one marginal.....one...errrr...not marginal.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,105
Likes
12,377
Sorry but I disagree. You intimated that Dyche had instructed his players to go out and break legs.
Being physical and getting in our faces etc but breaking legs is a step too far for me.

I don't condone it but I fully understand the reasoning behind Burnley being a physical side and I'm comfortable with that. For them its about being hard to beat and getting in teams faces is part of their way of achieving it. And they're not the only side that does it either.

Everyone knows - or should know - that there is a clear line between hard play and thuggery that you shouldn’t cross. More and more I am seeing players taking man and ball and hiding behind the fact that they got the ball a split second before the man. Technically as far as winning the ball is concerned its not a foul but if there is intent to take the man as well then it most definitely is a foul and depending on the severity should result in a yellow or red card. In fact, if there is intent to take out the opposition player in a reckless way it should be a straight red whether you get the ball first or not.

In fairness, its not just Burnley. I’ve seen it happen in a number of recent Liverpool matches. Last season it was happening to Man City. In fact its happening so much now that I struggle to believe its not tactical. Sides seem to test the referee out early on with some iffy tackles and if they get away with them they keep doing it. There seems to be this idea amongst officials of not getting the cards out too early and they then seem to be bemused when they lose control. If there’s nasty stuff early on, stamp it out early on with yellow and red cards. If players are testing you out give them the message loud and clear as soon as the nonsense starts.
 

liver1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,723
Likes
2,036
Its not just about intention though whether Burnely set out to injure.

If our players were practicing on a wet pitch or waterlogged pitch before a game, would you say to them just go into your tackles as normal?

If not, why not.

Even if youre not trying to injure someone, in this case your own team mates, the likelihood of doing so increases.
 

WooltonRed

TIA Youth Team
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
504
Likes
738
I’ve got no problem at all with tackling, when it’s done with skill and no malice. But it was blatantly obvious the Burnley players were sent out with instructions to get stuck into Liverpool, again no problems with that.
However, some of the challenges were anything but skilful and were also malicious.
The Bardsley tackle on Moreno was just vicious and deserved a red card. There was absolutely no need at all for Mee to fly into the tackle on Gomez the way he did, resulting in a fractured leg for a fellow professional.
Some players resort to these thug tactics to play up to the crowd and to prove how devoted to the cause they are. It also masks how limited they are skill wise, like Bardsley.
If Burnley continue with their intimidating, bully boy tactics, they’ll lose a lot of admirers on their way down to the Championship, which is where they’ll surely end up. At least last night they eventually got the twatting they deserved.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,105
Likes
12,377
I stand to be corrected here, but the boy that bundles the thing in the net starts a few yards offside in the same phase of play.

To me there is two offsides there, one marginal.....one...errrr...not marginal.

You are correct. The player who attempts to get contact on the ball but misses it automatically plays himself offside. He is already in an ‘offside’ position but he then distracts Alisson by trying to play the ball when they are in close proximity to each other. This gives the attacking side an unfair advantage. That is a clear offside, the second offside in the build up to the ‘goal’.
 

Commando

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
1,133
Likes
2,903
I think that unfortunately the offside law is now so complex and open to interpretation regarding interference with play and second phase. I don't believe most fans and many officials fully understand it. I just looked at it again and was amazed to see that you can't be offside from a goal kick. How many of you knew that?

The first line of the law states ....It is not an offence to be in an offside position....something most fans forget.
A lad I worked with in the nineties was a qualified ref and told me that.


I’ve got no problem at all with tackling, when it’s done with skill and no malice. But it was blatantly obvious the Burnley players were sent out with instructions to get stuck into Liverpool, again no problems with that.
However, some of the challenges were anything but skilful and were also malicious.
The Bardsley tackle on Moreno was just vicious and deserved a red card. There was absolutely no need at all for Mee to fly into the tackle on Gomez the way he did, resulting in a fractured leg for a fellow professional.
Some players resort to these thug tactics to play up to the crowd and to prove how devoted to the cause they are. It also masks how limited they are skill wise, like Bardsley.
If Burnley continue with their intimidating, bully boy tactics, they’ll lose a lot of admirers on their way down to the Championship, which is where they’ll surely end up. At least last night they eventually got the twatting they deserved.
The retarded twatty Burnley fans were booing Moreno for a good while after that tackle because he stayed down.
 

Commando

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
1,133
Likes
2,903
Them's fighting words...
I used to like the joke,

That's fighting talk where I come from. But I've moved from there now so you're OK.

As to last night's match. I think it's progress that I this time last year I would be pissed off that we'd dropped points to relegation fodder like Burnley are. This year I'm mightily pissed off that we even allowed them to score.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,105
Likes
12,377
Spot on...I don't want to see our players pulling out of tackles because the pitch is wet and they might hurt someone. Ask any of our former players about that tackle and I bet every single one would say it was just tough luck. Everyone on here would have applauded a similar tackle by Robertson on Fellaini or Hazard and quite rightly so. Did anyone ever complain that Stevie G went in a bit hard there?

Playing the likes of Burnley on a wet night in December is a part of English football. Always was and always will be, I hope. Dalglish and Rush had to put up with far rougher play than what went on last night.

If you think refs are lenient now take a look on YouTube at the likes of Tommy Smith, Norman Hunter and Billy Bremner.

It is a remarkable fact that Tommy only got sent off once.........for swearing at the ref.

I don’t need to watch DVDs or YouTube - I lived and played through that era. We’re not talking about hard tackles and roughing up the opposition. We’re talking about deliberately playing through the ball and making sure you get the man in a reckless way.

Studs up tackles, two footed tackles, over the ball tackles have all been an issue for as long as I have been watching the game. And I certainly don’t approve of the two-legged scissor tackle - what’s that all about and what’s it got to do with winning the ball fairly?

It was a lot harder back then but the game has changed. For a start we no longer use the same type of ball - I mean how fundamental a change is that to the game? And we now know that the heavier balls may well have led to brain damage in some players through constant heading of the ball.

Rugby Union was a lot harder back then but things that you could get away with in the ‘70s you no longer can (at least officially you can’t anyway!).

Personally I don’t have too much of an issue with the Gomez tackle - it was hard, a little bit of subtle afters but more than anything, Gomez was very unlucky with the break. There were however one or two other tackles that were not acceptable. Harping back to the ‘70s doesn’t change that fact.

Oh and Norman ‘Bites Yur Legs’ Hunter was an out-and-out thug whilst our Tommy ‘Anfield Iron’ Smith was just a very hard man! ;-)lol
 
Last edited:

Red over the water

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
703
Likes
1,215
I don't think anyone is saying take hard tackling out of the game. Everyone can appreciate it's part and parcel of the game. Injuries are also part of the game, and so is bad luck.

With all that said, it's fair comment to want to try to minimize the danger. Two things should be punished in my opinion, and refs need to be on top of it. One is the studs up tackle. The other is the scissors tackle.

Going to ground in a slide tackle is all well and good, but wrapping both legs around a players standing leg puts him in danger, even more if the conditions are slippery. At that point your momentum will carry on and the players leg has nowhere to go, hence Gomez's injury.

We shouldn't conflate hard tackling and dangerous play. Obviously there's an overlap in the venn diagram, but they aren't the same thing.
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
2,577
Likes
4,503
I don't think there was any contact ..... but as he is one of ours........I will conclude that he slipped on a stray leaf and wasn't trying to cheat or looking for a free kick at all.
Talk about trying to deflect the attention from his predicament of trying to get out of the bottom three but trying to kick opponents and breaking legs is definitely not the right way?
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
2,577
Likes
4,503
I don't mind getting in teams faces, it's clipping heels and fracturing legs is what I am not too happy about. And that's what he intimated, tackles and then play football.
In his post match interview he said we wanted to make our mark and he certainly did with Moreno and Gomez
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,144
Likes
2,746
Tough tackles should happen, but not on a night like that. It was raining, the ball was wet, the players were sliding all over the pitch.

It you go in heavy youve got no control at stopping yourself. Its just an accident waiting to happen.
OK. We can only allow tackles when it's hot and dry.

Doesn't sound right to me.
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,144
Likes
2,746
Spot on...I don't want to see our players pulling out of tackles because the pitch is wet and they might hurt someone. Ask any of our former players about that tackle and I bet every single one would say it was just tough luck. Everyone on here would have applauded a similar tackle by Robertson on Fellaini or Hazard and quite rightly so. Did anyone ever complain that Stevie G went in a bit hard there?

Playing the likes of Burnley on a wet night in December is a part of English football. Always was and always will be, I hope. Dalglish and Rush had to put up with far rougher play than what went on last night.

If you think refs are lenient now take a look on YouTube at the likes of Tommy Smith, Norman Hunter and Billy Bremner.

It is a remarkable fact that Tommy only got sent off once.........for swearing at the ref.
Nailed it.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
12,452
Likes
39,353
OK. We can only allow tackles when it's hot and dry.

Doesn't sound right to me.
Klopp mentioned that the refs should be mindful of tackles in the dry being far more dangerous in wet conditions,he suggested the ref should warn a player that is sliding 6/7 yards to be careful as he's not in control of where or when he stops,quite reasonable to me.
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,144
Likes
2,746
Klopp mentioned that the refs should be mindful of tackles in the dry being far more dangerous in wet conditions,he suggested the ref should warn a player that is sliding 6/7 yards to be careful as he's not in control of where or when he stops,quite reasonable to me.
Because Klopp says it doesn't mean that he is right. There are already rules to deal with players going in to the tackle out of control.

In fact players can get a red card when they get the ball. How fucked up is that?
 



lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
49,982
Likes
37,106
Tough tackles when necessary isn’t wrong, just kicking lumps on players and taking players and the ball out unnecessarily is a problem. I don’t remember any of our great managers would come out saying give it a good tackle as priority. Tackle is an art if you do it right, don’t remember a good tackle seen the opponent stretchered off.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
12,452
Likes
39,353
Because Klopp says it doesn't mean that he is right. There are already rules to deal with players going in to the tackle out of control.

In fact players can get a red card when they get the ball. How fucked up is that?
There's nothing wrong with what Klopp said and if there's rules already there to do it then someone should maybe tell the fucking ref,i think that's what Klopp was saying.
 

liver1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,723
Likes
2,036
Because Klopp says it doesn't mean that he is right. There are already rules to deal with players going in to the tackle out of control.

In fact players can get a red card when they get the ball. How fucked up is that?
There you go then - its up to the refs discretion whether a tackle is dangerous or out of control and warrants a yellow or red card.

On a night where the weather makes it more dangerous and easier to be out of control, the ref needs to step in and warn players and bring out the cards to penalise it accordingly.
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,144
Likes
2,746
There's nothing wrong with what Klopp said and if there's rules already there to do it then someone should maybe tell the fucking ref,i think that's what Klopp was saying.
Perhaps you are right. In the same press conference he said that it was not a foul.

If no foul has been committed then how can he expect the ref to do something.

It's like the local bizzy pulling you up and saying "I know you have done fuck all wrong so don't do it again"

Fucks sake what next?
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,144
Likes
2,746
There you go then - its up to the refs discretion whether a tackle is dangerous or out of control and warrants a yellow or red card.

On a night where the weather makes it more dangerous and easier to be out of control, the ref needs to step in and warn players and bring out the cards to penalise it accordingly.
The ref deemed that the tackles were fair and that no action was required.

If the weather conditions disadvantage the players making the tackles would you argue that the game be postponed?

Surely the fact that you are removing a defender's right to tackle because of the weather - removes the level playing field.

The level playing field that makes football the greatest of all sports