POST MATCH: Burnley v Liverpool (EPL 5/12/2018 7.45pm)

Man of the Match

  • Alisson

  • Gomez (off 23)

  • Matip

  • Van Dijk

  • Moreno (off 65)

  • Henderson

  • Keita

  • Milner

  • Shaqiri

  • Sturridge

  • Origi (off 65)

  • Alexander-Arnold (on 23)

  • Firmino (on 65)

  • Salah (on 65)


Results are only viewable after voting.

El Cuchillero

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Socks looked shite, though.
 

charleslee89

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I had to laugh at a specific play in the first half, VVD plays the ball to Henderson about 10 meters inside our half. Henderson sprints about 30 meters forward, looks up and passes.......sideways/backwards to Moreno whom then has to pass back 20 meters to VVD.
At least he didn't cost us a goal...
 

jredp

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missed the first half, but the lads done done well in the second half. Don't think their goal should have stood, as Allison had his hands on the ball. As others have rightly pointed out, they were over physical in them conditions, and the ref done them a favour. Keeping city in touching distance and opening a gap below us feels good. Saturday will be very tough, but hoping the lads are very confident and show it on the pitch. It would be great to have them keep the unbeaten run going on and on and on and on and on and on and on.........infinity springs to mind.
 

jredp

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Dyche was probably having a go at Klopp, because his team still got beaten after seven changes were made to the first team, telling Klopp that it wasn't a league cup game
 

Antiope

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Manchester City ran away with the league last season, because no one was running them close. So we don't really know how they can handle it. Good to see that we are doing our bit. Really proud of the squad as a whole. Can't complain or ask for anything more.
 

Iluvatar

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I never really understood a keeper being useful in the attacking sense. But we are seeing it again and again with Alisson. The difference quick thinking makes turning momentum of attacking play.
He is just immense, he sprinted 40 yards to bark at Trent v’s the bitters to get wide for a better angle and then took the free kick we scored from. The guy is worldclass in every sense.
 

lfc.eddie

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So that small three in front of them would be our midfield then? pretty much invisible, you will need to take a hard look to find it.... lollollol

This is how you know what a manager is telling his players before they took the field.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46462903
Burnley manager Sean Dyche said his side produced some "excellent" challenges during the game.

"I thought some of the timing of the challenges were superb. That's part of that front-foot mentality," he said.

"You've got to win the ball, you've got to challenge against these boys.

"You've got to put a marker on the game - not only with good tackles, but also with good play."
As a football manager, to put your marker down you'd probably say "with good play, and also good tackles". He emphasised on tackles and challenges as front-foot mentality, that to me is a manager telling his players to go out and hurt somebody. It's apparent what they are planning to do. Win the ball from their own half with hard tackles and lump it forward, while one of their two striker will clip our centre halves' ankles or elbow-jabbed their ribs. This is why I have never been a fan of this fucker, pundit loves him last season.....

What does he think is going to happen last night. During last season when they fighting with the big boys, they went into this particular game with 4 points adrift from us. They lost 2-1 to us when they were riding high, they expect to beat us when they are 2nd from bottom this season?
 
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Caradoc

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So that small three in front of them would be our midfield then? pretty much invisible, you will need to take a hard look to find it.... lollollol

They’re moving in the opposite direction (towards the statues) so I suppose one of them could be Henderson (may as well get it out of the way before somebody else mentions it :rolleyes:).
 
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Noo Noo

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This is how you know what a manager is telling his players before they took the field.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46462903

As a football manager, to put your marker down you'd probably say "with good play, and also good tackles". He emphasised on tackles and challenges as front-foot mentality, that to me is a manager telling his players to go out and hurt somebody. It's apparent what they are planning to do. Win the ball from their own half with hard tackles and lump it forward, while one of their two striker will clip our centre halves' ankles or elbow-jabbed their ribs. This is why I have never been a fan of this fucker, pundit loves him last season.....

What does he think is going to happen last night. During last season when they fighting with the big boys, they went into this particular game with 4 points adrift from us. They lost 2-1 to us when they were riding high, they expect to beat us when they are 2nd from bottom this season?
Too far for me Eddie. I have some sympathy with Dyche in that he's managing a club where he simply cant afford to buy quality. Their net spend over the last 4-5 years is similar to the fee we paid for VvD alone. When you're in that position roughing up the opposition is a perfectly viable tactic in my book. It's up to the ref to control the game. It's not as if Burnley could out play us is it?

Burnley are in a bit of trouble regarding their league position and Dyche is looking for a reaction. In some ways he got it and I'm perfectly fine with it. Again, it's up to the ref to step in and say "That's enough, too much" or whatever. Last night the ref probably allowed Burnley to get away with one or two challenges that they shouldn't have. Plus I would also say that there's a huge onus on our midfield in particular to manage it. Do you think Souness would have allowed them to play like that? No, he would have left a marker or two of his own.

I thought that VvD was the only one that stepped up last night and took on that challenge when we went behind. He dragged the rest of the team up and that is why he was my MotM.
 

Mascot88

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Too far for me Eddie. I have some sympathy with Dyche in that he's managing a club where he simply cant afford to buy quality. Their net spend over the last 4-5 years is similar to the fee we paid for VvD alone. When you're in that position roughing up the opposition is a perfectly viable tactic in my book. It's up to the ref to control the game. It's not as if Burnley could out play us is it?

Burnley are in a bit of trouble regarding their league position and Dyche is looking for a reaction. In some ways he got it and I'm perfectly fine with it. Again, it's up to the ref to step in and say "That's enough, too much" or whatever. Last night the ref probably allowed Burnley to get away with one or two challenges that they shouldn't have. Plus I would also say that there's a huge onus on our midfield in particular to manage it. Do you think Souness would have allowed them to play like that? No, he would have left a marker or two of his own.

I thought that VvD was the only one that stepped up last night and took on that challenge when we went behind. He dragged the rest of the team up and that is why he was my MotM.
At somewhere like Turf Moor, you always have to win a battle before you can win a football match. That’s fine, and Burnley are entitled to use their physicality and aggression, if that’s all they have in the locker.

But to say we should respond in kind ignores the twat in the middle of the pitch who has decided (or the Premier League has decided) his job is not ‘enforce the rules’, it’s ‘level the playing field’.

Atwell was allowing Burnley to make all kinds of cynical, dangerous tackles last night. The tackle on Moreno early on is a definite yellow, and he doesn’t even give a foul (and Moreno then get boo’d for the rest of the Match by the Burnley crowd who are, well, basic). Danny Sturridge gets physically pushed off the pitch and gets nothing.

But if we respond in kind, what happens? The yellow cards come out. We have skilful, technical expensive players, so we’re not allowed to be physical. Burnley are yard dogs, so they are.

We can’t meet Burnley in kind if the Refs, and they have shown this time and time again, are applying different rules to the big sides as they are to the smaller ones.
 

costared

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Rollercoaster of emotions.
1st half was the long ball after long ball.
2nd half klopp finally made early substitutes and it pays off. Hope he keeps subs on early and it keeps us fresh.

Gomez - hope it’s not nit serious. You will be missed if it is

Milner - you are a true general and deserve captain

Keita - I’ve been begging for our dead midfield to come alive and today it did

Henderson - walking dead in the midfield. Didn’t even remember you contributing anything today.

Becker - great saves and worth your weight in gold

Virgil - man of the match for me. You go under the radar for what you do. But today man you were shinning like a diamond. Offence and defence. You do it all

Agree with a lot of what you say but ,like many others, you have the blinkers on re Henderson. He actually had quite a good game , nothing flashy , never going to be any ones hero but far better than you suggest.
 
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Caradoc

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Too far for me Eddie. I have some sympathy with Dyche in that he's managing a club where he simply cant afford to buy quality. Their net spend over the last 4-5 years is similar to the fee we paid for VvD alone. When you're in that position roughing up the opposition is a perfectly viable tactic in my book. It's up to the ref to control the game. It's not as if Burnley could out play us is it?

Burnley are in a bit of trouble regarding their league position and Dyche is looking for a reaction. In some ways he got it and I'm perfectly fine with it. Again, it's up to the ref to step in and say "That's enough, too much" or whatever. Last night the ref probably allowed Burnley to get away with one or two challenges that they shouldn't have. Plus I would also say that there's a huge onus on our midfield in particular to manage it. Do you think Souness would have allowed them to play like that? No, he would have left a marker or two of his own.

I thought that VvD was the only one that stepped up last night and took on that challenge when we went behind. He dragged the rest of the team up and that is why he was my MotM.

My view lies somewhere between yours and eddie’s. A player could have been seriously injured last night taking the conditions into consideration. In fact we’re still waiting to find out if young Gomez has been seriously injured. So I agree that Burnley have the right to get stuck in and intimidate but to persistently foul ...... ? as a tactic ....... ? No ........ !

I don’t understand your last paragraph either. I could add Keita and Milner to VvD without even stopping to think about it.
 

Iluvatar

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How good is Keith btw.. And how freaking good is he going to become.. The guy glides around the field, I'm sure I'll get knocked down for this but he looks so so like a mix between Inesta and Xavi it's untrue, he would slot into the Barca teams of the past with ease.

Has a fucking mean shot, runs round players for fun, actually runs with the ball and commits their midfield.. Breath of fresh air, the future!

Make no bones either, to have that type of player you need a Henderson behind him doing all the plugging (which he did well). Fabinho may become that player also, but 2nd half we had lovely balance to our play (co-incidence it was when we split up Milner/Henderson?)
 

costared

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Must admit I was a bit concerned when they scored. The way they were tackling, packing defence and generally putting themselves about was making it very difficult for us to get any rythm to our play. Matip and Moreno were poor IMO. Sturridge and Origi looked to struggle first half but both contributed some good work with assists in the second half. At the end it was a decent performance under the circumstances with so many changes.
Just hoping Joe Gomez is not to badly injured.
 

Mascot88

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Some thoughts on the game, which I ended up watching quite late.

The first half was a struggle as a unfamiliar team found it hard to gel, and Burnley were allowed to play their ale house football with impunity.

I thought the Burnley goal was ridiculous. Chris Wood is blatantly offside when he attempts to play the ball. Alisson also has both hands on the ball when it’s kicked. I’m of the opinion that Keepers get too much protection, and Alisson didn’t have control of the ball. But by the standards we see week in week out it should be pulled back. It was definitely offside though.

From there we were brilliant. The team noticably went up a gear and just crushed Burnley.

Keita was the man of the match, and hopefully this is the real start for him. It looked like from about 30mins he realised he is much better than everyone else on the pitch. On the Anfield Wrap the other day they said that the word at Melwood is that his language isn’t where it needs to be, but everyone is really thrilled by his training.

Danny Sturridge was fantastic, but only after he dropped deep. This only confirms my feeling that he isn’t a striker anymore - he is a number ten. His vision and technical ability is top drawer, even if his pace and explosiveness is just a memory now. In my opinion Danny should be coming off the bench on around 65 for a midfielder, as a game is opening up and we need creativity. The ball he played to Salah for the Shaq goal was sublime.

So, best ever start to a league campaign. Ever. Let’s just keep it going.
 

Mascot88

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Must admit I was a bit concerned when they scored. The way they were tackling, packing defence and generally putting themselves about was making it very difficult for us to get any rythm to our play. Matip and Moreno were poor IMO. Sturridge and Origi looked to struggle first half but both contributed some good work with assists in the second half. At the end it was a decent performance under the circumstances with so many changes.
Just hoping Joe Gomez is not to badly injured.
The set pieces always look poor when Matip plays. I just think he is too lightweight to be considered a Centre Back.

Moreno has a good game, I thought. Not at Robertson’s level, but a decent game from an able deputy
 

RedForever2014

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Great result, could easily have been a banana skin. It was understandable the first half was below par as rotated players settled.

I thought Moreno did well enough and can give Robertson a rest in the right matches. Cover for right back is the issue, I don't like seeing Gomez there as it's stretching his injury prone body. If Clyne can't do it to cover TAA we need to sort something. Matip is no more than ok as a centre back and needs upgrading.

Good to see Keita improving, but I do hope Fab is now first choice 6. Henderson isn't the answer against top sides, only for matches like last night.

Aside from the defensive cover, the big issue in the squad is the lack of quality cover for the front three.

Sturridge and Origi are decent enough, but we really need to be able to rotate more at a similar level. A January signing would really set us up for the run in.

Above all, it's just so good to have a top quality keeper. It is without doubt a huge part of being successful. I reckon we're at least 5 points better off because of Alisson.
 

Red Armada

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I have some sympathy with Dyche in that he's managing a club where he simply cant afford to buy quality. Their net spend over the last 4-5 years is similar to the fee we paid for VvD alone. When you're in that position roughing up the opposition is a perfectly viable tactic in my book. It's up to the ref to control the game. It's not as if Burnley could out play us is it?
Eddie Howe at Bournemouth doesn't have his players play like thugs and it's not as if he can buy quality either. The Dyches, Allardyces, Pulises are a disgrace to their profession. That turd last night even had a go at Klopp and the temerity of talking about putting a marker on the game after his players flew into challenges without regard for the safety of their opponent, injuring Gomez. Fuck him and everyone else like him, the sooner they and their ideas disappear into oblivion, the better.

Oh and they can take the idiots who are officiating with them. Like Mascot says their role is to enforce the rules, not to level the playing field. The tolerance displayed towards this kind of tactics is incredulous and stupefying.

In regard to the game itself, loved the result all the more because for the first time this season we came from behind to win. That's massive and combined with the derby win, it must have the team's confidence sky high. The only downer though is a big one. Gomez going down, with an ankle injury no less, could turn out to be a big problem. Lovren is himself unreliable and Matip is the third-choice CB for a reason.
 



Noo Noo

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At somewhere like Turf Moor, you always have to win a battle before you can win a football match. That’s fine, and Burnley are entitled to use their physicality and aggression, if that’s all they have in the locker.

But to say we should respond in kind ignores the twat in the middle of the pitch who has decided (or the Premier League has decided) his job is not ‘enforce the rules’, it’s ‘level the playing field’.

Atwell was allowing Burnley to make all kinds of cynical, dangerous tackles last night. The tackle on Moreno early on is a definite yellow, and he doesn’t even give a foul (and Moreno then get boo’d for the rest of the Match by the Burnley crowd who are, well, basic). Danny Sturridge gets physically pushed off the pitch and gets nothing.

But if we respond in kind, what happens? The yellow cards come out. We have skilful, technical expensive players, so we’re not allowed to be physical. Burnley are yard dogs, so they are.

We can’t meet Burnley in kind if the Refs, and they have shown this time and time again, are applying different rules to the big sides as they are to the smaller ones.
I agree which is why I said twice that the ref needs to control the game. He didn't do anywhere near enough last night I agree.

But I also believe that there is an duty for our midfield to also control every aspect of the game. Souness was probably a poor example given that the game has moved on and that kind of "in game management" is not so obvious these days. But if the tackles start flying the last thing I think anyone should do is shy away. You need to stand up to it. The alternative is the "European" method which involves a lot of falling over and rolling round ala Ramos.

Technical and skillful does not mean you are a pansy cant have some bite and stand up in my book. Keita can do it, Fabinho can and most certainly VvD can.
 

Noo Noo

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Eddie Howe at Bournemouth doesn't have his players play like thugs and it's not as if he can buy quality either. The Dyches, Allardyces, Pulises are a disgrace to their profession. That turd last night even had a go at Klopp and the temerity of talking about putting a marker on the game after his players flew into challenges without regard for the safety of their opponent, injuring Gomez. Fuck him and everyone else like him, the sooner they and their ideas disappear into oblivion, the better.

Oh and they can take the idiots who are officiating with them. Like Mascot says their role is to enforce the rules, not to level the playing field. The tolerance displayed towards this kind of tactics is incredulous and stupefying.

In regard to the game itself, loved the result all the more because for the first time this season we came from behind to win. That's massive and combined with the derby win, it must have the team's confidence sky high. The only downer though is a big one. Gomez going down, with an ankle injury no less, could turn out to be a big problem. Lovren is himself unreliable and Matip is the third-choice CB for a reason.
So when we play the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and PSG we can be physical, (there's been plenty of posts on here regarding a midfield with some bite to it) yet when a team does it to us they're a disgrace????

Cant comment on Dyche but Allardyce etc. are dinosaurs and tactically way behind I agree. They are also incredibly inflexible and don't evolve. They are what they are and there's little wonder that they manage the clubs that they do.

Completely agree with your last paragraph. Coming from behind was a huge step mentally and was that a slight glimmer of last seasons attacking flair I saw in the last goal? Huge shame regarding Gomez too. I hope its not serious. Other positives from last night has to be Keita's performance.
 

Noo Noo

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My view lies somewhere between yours and eddie’s. A player could have been seriously injured last night taking the conditions into consideration. In fact we’re still waiting to find out if young Gomez has been seriously injured. So I agree that Burnley have the right to get stuck in and intimidate but to persistently foul ...... ? as a tactic ....... ? No ........ !

I don’t understand your last paragraph either. I could add Keita and Milner to VvD without even stopping to think about it.
That's cool and as always it's perfectly possible I'm not doing a great job of explaining my view.

I think its a perfectly viable tactic so long as its within the laws of the game. Where it isn't the ref needs to manage it. He didn't.

I just thought that when we went behind I had this feeling that VvD simply stood up and took charge. There was a raking pass, he seemed to impose himself and of course his assist for the second goal. I felt it was something that you really want your captain to do.