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Post Match: Cardiff 3 Liverpool 6

legalalien

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Maria said:
I am wondering, Chelsea are still 7 points ahead, they need to lose or draw somewhere because even if we win all our games, we are 6 points short off topping the league. You know what I mean. I am not sure how we can do it mathematically.
That "somewhere" would be at Anfield. Mathematically Chelsea are catchable, but we really need City drop points in addition to the three they're going drop at Anfield as we go on to end the season on a 14 game run of victories!
 

Joe90

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Caulker definitely deserved red.
Johnson deserved yellow on Zaha.

This ref trying to fight it out with Webb for 'Biggest Bottler 2014'?

6-3 good result cause it's 3 points. Should have been 7 or more with a non-bottler ref giving a penalty against Theophile and sending Caulker.

Allen did really well.
 

indianscouser

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Credits to the team. I felt this would be a potential banana skin.
Suarez and sturridge have a special connection, each knows telepathically where the other is. If these two play like this for the rest of the season we are in for a treat.
I was disappointed by the way allen and flanno played. Both were sloppy.
This coutinho sterling rotation is really working. The opposition will always be under pressure when one of them come from the bench.
Next up sunderland, each game now a cup final for us!
Come on Brendan, make us dream again!!
 

Mascot88

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On Match of the Day did you all hear Steve Bower shout 'Torres' when Suarez scored his second? Funny.
 
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Mascot88 said:
On Match of the Day did you all hear Steve Bower shout 'Torres' when Suarez scored his second? Funny.
Yeah I thought I heard that for his first 2 goals actually. Thought maybe I was just imagining it.
 

ptt

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Joe90 said:
Just watching the game. Tan looks like a @@@@@.
I'd pull that mate, just to be on the safe side
Mascot88 said:
On Match of the Day did you all hear Steve Bower shout 'Torres' when Suarez scored his second? Funny.
Yes, glad it wasn't just me!
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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OhYaBeauty said:
I sit down after the match and think. Is the sky falling? What's going on here? This had all the makings of 2009 Middlesbrough, and yet I wasn't worried before the match. What could lowly Cardiff do to us? They're damn near incapable of scoring, I thought, and there's also no way in hell they keep us under three goals. Fast forward twenty minutes and they've got two on us and I'm starting to worry. Is this it? Is this the moment this backwards, upside-down, and entirely strange season starts becoming normal again? Is this the time when Liverpool's being... well, Liverpool comes out?

I'm still a bit flummoxed. At the outset, my prediction for this season was that we would finish in fifth, hopefully mounting a very good challenge for a Champions League place. But it seems we've forgotten that we're Liverpool. We've forgotten that we're mentally weak, that we can't continually beat the small teams away from home, that we can't sustain any sort of fight to finish high up the table. Thing is, though, we can. This Liverpool team is unlike any Liverpool team I've ever seen play, and to be perfectly frank, it's far more similar to the Manchester United teams we've seen in the past ten years. They might not be the most talented team in the league, but by god they've got the spirit and belief. I don't know who deserves the credit, but I think this team thinks they're 1970 Brazil. And it's working. Credit to Rodgers, Steve Peters, Gerrard, and his lieutenants on the pitch (Suarez, Agger, and Skrtel, mostly), they've got the mental fortitude of Navy SEALs.

They said during Kenny's year we couldn't beat the bottom-halfers. I think we've proven that wrong. They said last year we couldn't beat the top eight. Ask United, Arsenal, Everton and Spurs if they think that's valid. They said Anfield was no longer a fortress. We've got just one loss and two draws at home this season, the rest are wins. I said I didn't believe that we had a shot at the title. And I really, firmly believe that I was wrong. And it's never felt so good.



Mignolet was a bit unlucky, in my opinion. He didn't have much of a chance on Mutch's first or Campbell's goals, but he might have managed to do a bit better for Mutch's second. He looked far more willing [than we give him credit for] to come out of his area and deal with aerial balls, but he also seemed shaky at best at organizing the defense. Cardiff's three goals aren't his fault, but there's certainly no doubting he could have done better.

The fullbacks played well enough. I thought Johnson did quite well. He managed to win two tackles and three interceptions, make two key passes, and claim a great assist on the team play for Suarez' first goal. My favorite part, though? When he left one on Zaha. Hard. Flanagan had a less impressive afternoon, generally not being up to snuff against Campbell or Bellamy as they drifted left. He was also left flat-footed on Mutch's opener when he could easily have cleared Joe Allen's pass, and was out of position (leaving Agger exposed) for Campbell's goal. Perhaps he only shows up for big games. I thought he might have scored another like his Tottenham goal in the second half, but it wasn't to be. His substitution for Cissokho, though was comical (as Aly always is). Immediately after coming on, Aly misplaced a pass on his first touch and conceded a foul for his second. Should we win the title, his picking up a winner's medal will be one of those hilarious stories in World Football.
Johnson's assist​
Johnson's "assist assist" for Sturridge by way of Suarez​
Johnson leaves one on Zaha
Flanno misses

The central defenders were poor in my opinion. Defensively, at least. Agger couldn't win a headed duel to save his life (3 of 12) and was poor at tracking Campbell's movement for his goal. He might have been left exposed by Flanagan, but you'd expect an international central defender to be able to move a bit better than that; he was nowhere near him. His passing was good, but that's all you can really say about him. Skrtel wasn't too much better defensively; he made a series of blunders that weren't punished. Offensively, though, he was good. He scored his fifth and sixth goals of the season, making him our highest-scoring central defender since the before Sky invented football, I think. His passing was also very good (96%). Skrtel's celebration was fun, as well:
Skrtel's movement for his first goal was very good​
Skrtel's second goal​
Skrtel's celebration (oops)​

Gerrard was his usual, reliable self in the middle. He made 97 of his 105 passes for a 92% success rate, and generally kept play ticking over very well. I was very surprised to see him not take a single corner, instead giving Coutinho corner duty. As we all know, that worked out well, but it's a surprise to me that a man with (I don't know the number off the top of my head) six to eight (?) assists from corners this season wouldn't take them for us. His out-swingers are fantastic. Still, good performance. Speaking of Coutinho, he was magnificent. I've often raised the question of how he performs in these sort of games, but he did well in that advanced role today. He slowed his game down and didn't try to force it too much, which helped us hold onto the ball and find gaps. His corners were very good, leading to two assists for Skrtel, and he had an open-play key pass as well. He also took on his man three times and beat him all three. Massively influential in the outcome, and generally a much more assured, relaxed performance than we've seen from him in this sort of game.
Coutinho's first assist​
Coutinho's second assist​

Henderson and Allen were less impressive. I think that's largely due to the tactics of the game, but they didn't help themselves much, either. Henderson was the better of the two, with his hockey assist for Suarez' first goal (by way of Johnson) a particular highlight. Elsewhere, though, his tackling was poor (0/4) and his passing not nearly as incisive as it has been, aside from one long diagonal ball to Johnson late on. Allen did his usual graft but was far less effective in it this time around. His tackling was better than Henderson's (4/9) but he also fouled frequently and didn't pass as reliably as we're used to. He can do better.
Hendo's "assist assist for Suarez by way of Johnson​
Hendo's long ball to Johnson​
I saw user '11 Others' post in the in-match thread that Suarez and Sturridge look like they might be better than the real SAS. What real SAS? These two are the real SAS, the other two simply an opening act for this magnificence. What I find scary is that I didn't think Suarez played particularly well. His dribbling was poor, by his own standards. He seemed to trip over himself frequently and didn't change directions as fluidly as we're used to seeing. His free kicks weren't up to his usual standard. I didn't much care for the way he ignored Sterling to collect his hat trick. But the guy still managed a hat trick and an assist, and earned a perfect ten rating on whoscored. He's just that fucking good; even in his less impressive moments, he's perfect. He had four key passes. I thought Sturridge played better than Suarez. His dribbling was consistently dangerous, and his movement found him in good positions time and time again. His assist for Suarez was beautiful, if not one hundred percent intentional, and he looked like a top class striker. Sterling came on late and was impressive as well.

Suarez' first​
Sturridge with a lovely pass, Suarez with a lovely finish​
Suarez with a lovely pass, Sturridge with a lovely finish​
Suarez rounds off his hat trick​

Tactically, I don't think we made the right choice. The diamond allowed us control of the midfield, sure, but it wasn't entirely necessary. Cardiff, with three at the back, were overrun in midfield fairly easily. A switch to the 4-3-3 would have been better in my opinion, as it would given us more protection through the flanks (which is where their first two goals came from) and would have allowed us to put more pressure on them through Sterling being up top with the other two. Ultimately, it's a non-issue, but I don't think Rodgers got it completely right today. Not by any stretch.
Nice to see you doing these post-match analyses again OYB. I'm sure many of the forumites really appreciate the time and effort you put into them.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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Uberkoen said:
At their current rate, not only could SAS surpass Beardsley and Cole's collective record (which was set in a 42 game season), but Suarez could also better the individual goal-scoring record held by Cole and Shearer (also set in 42 game seasons).

They may just be better than anything we've ever seen in the Premier League!
 

ptt

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Poor Scouser Tommy said:
At their current rate, not only could SAS surpass Beardsley and Cole's collective record (which was set in a 42 game season), but Suarez could also better the individual goal-scoring record held by Cole and Shearer (also set in 42 game seasons).

They are better than anything we've ever seen in the Premier League!
Fixed :)
 

CJ_LFC

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Cardiff got tore apart in the second half. There defense couldn't handle the pace of our attack and we exploited it. It seems like we have a mentality of if you score then we are scoring more. Credit to Cardiff though for scaring us and giving us a game and not bottling it although there manager Ole is a massive Manc twat and I hope they go down. Sorry Bellers but I detest Ole.
 

SoueysTash

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Just re-watched the game - Agger was culpable in 2 arguably 3...

1st goal - clearly that was Allens fault giving them the ball however why Agger didn't stick his leg out in front of the shot i'll never know...

2nd goal - Flat footed, left for dead by the forward.

3rd goal - just left his man for the free header


Again - 3 goals conceded due to individual errors - so frustrating. We were lucky this time around, against the likes of City & Chelsea we have to be tighter at the back.
 

Arminius

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Bit surprised to hear the BBC summary characterize the situation with only 9 Cardiff players on as controversial. The rules were correctly applied, and neither Cardiff player was actually significantly injured, both returned to play. In particular, the Cardiff player who was not struck by the ball to the head let his team down.

SoueysTash said:
Just re-watched the game - Agger was culpable in 2 arguably 3...

1st goal - clearly that was Allens fault giving them the ball however why Agger didn't stick his leg out in front of the shot i'll never know...

2nd goal - Flat footed, left for dead by the forward.

3rd goal - just left his man for the free header


Again - 3 goals conceded due to individual errors - so frustrating. We were lucky this time around, against the likes of City & Chelsea we have to be tighter at the back.
I am not quite sure what Gerrard was doing for the second either, but neither Gerrard nor Agger played any meaningful defence there - yet Flanagan has somehow been given the lion's share of the blame.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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SoueysTash said:
Just re-watched the game - Agger was culpable in 2 arguably 3...

1st goal - clearly that was Allens fault giving them the ball however why Agger didn't stick his leg out in front of the shot i'll never know...

2nd goal - Flat footed, left for dead by the forward.

3rd goal - just left his man for the free header


Again - 3 goals conceded due to individual errors - so frustrating. We were lucky this time around, against the likes of City & Chelsea we have to be tighter at the back.
1st goal Mutch was Gerrards man, if he'd stayed tight that never happens.

2nd goal as pointed out on Goals on Sunday you see Agger and Skrtel point out Campbell to Flanagan who then stays with Allen marking the decoy runner of Fabio who never gets involved and Gerrard and Henderson never track back.

3rd goal doesn't happen unless Jones beats Skrtel and Johnson to knock down the ball.

Agger may have had some blame in the goals if you want to find it but bizarrely the only people blaming him are Liverpool fans. Not seen any pundits say anything to blame him!
 

gingerbread

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
1st goal Mutch was Gerrards man, if he'd stayed tight that never happens.

2nd goal as pointed out on Goals on Sunday you see Agger and Skrtel point out Campbell to Flanagan who then stays with Allen marking the decoy runner of Fabio who never gets involved and Gerrard and Henderson never track back.

3rd goal doesn't happen unless Jones beats Skrtel and Johnson to knock down the ball.

Agger may have had some blame in the goals if you want to find it but bizarrely the only people blaming him are Liverpool fans. Not seen any pundits say anything to blame him!
It's always the team responsibility, like if Suarez or Sturridge didn't lose the ball up pitch, or create the chance to pressure up them more, these goals will not happen.

But we are talking about Agger's fault as he could have done better with his own standard. Just like we won't blame Suarez if he was the one who track-backed for the 2nd goal and left flat footed by Campbell. Or Gerrard, who can't position and cover the defensive space the same way as Lucas could.

In this case, we do know Agger can easily close down the path for the first two goals if he were playing at his standard, hence the fault lie within him.
 

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
2nd goal as pointed out on Goals on Sunday you see Agger and Skrtel point out Campbell to Flanagan who then stays with Allen marking the decoy runner of Fabio who never gets involved and Gerrard and Henderson never track back.
Did not look to me like Allen picked up the outside run at all - he stayed with the ball, but was far too far away to apply any pressure whatsoever.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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gingerbread said:
It's always the team responsibility, like if Suarez or Sturridge didn't lose the ball up pitch, or create the chance to pressure up them more, these goals will not happen.

But we are talking about Agger's fault as he could have done better with his own standard. Just like we won't blame Suarez if he was the one who track-backed for the 2nd goal and left flat footed by Campbell. Or Gerrard, who can't position and cover the defensive space the same way as Lucas could.

In this case, we do know Agger can easily close down the path for the first two goals if he were playing at his standard, hence the fault lie within him.
Not sure I get you. Are you basically saying that because Agger is a good enough defender that whenever we concede it's his fault because with his skills and talents if he had been in the right place he would have stopped the goal? He wasn't involved at all in the first or third goals he was marking over players and covering other danger areas. Just because other players didn't do what they were supposed to doesn't mean Agger can be blamed for not abandoning the defensive shape and getting involved. And as I said no pundit has blamed Agger for the second goal they've all blamed the players who left the attacker with plenty of space to run in unopposed.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Arminius said:
Did not look to me like Allen picked up the outside run at all - he stayed with the ball, but was far too far away to apply any pressure whatsoever.
As they said on Goals on Sunday Fabio never gets involved he only becomes a consideration if Campbell is blocked off and has to play the ball wide on the over lap. Flanagan was told by his CBs to move to cover Campbell about 5 seconds before. He is young he will learn from it.
 

Arminius

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
As they said on Goals on Sunday Fabio never gets involved he only becomes a consideration if Campbell is blocked off and has to play the ball wide on the over lap. Flanagan was told by his CBs to move to cover Campbell about 5 seconds before. He is young he will learn from it.
If his CBs told him to leave an unmarked runner wide in order to come inside to pick up Campbell when there were two players closer to him, we do need new CBs. I thought Gerrard should have picked up Campbell's run, but for me the major fault was Allen standing out in no man's land letting the Cardiff player pick his pass. But you simply cannot let an overlap go completely uncovered.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Arminius said:
If his CBs told him to leave an unmarked runner wide in order to come inside to pick up Campbell when there were two players closer to him, we do need new CBs. I thought Gerrard should have picked up Campbell's run, but for me the major fault was Allen standing out in no man's land letting the Cardiff player pick his pass. But you simply cannot let an overlap go completely uncovered.
Sorry on the side of the ex footballers and manager here mate completely disagree Fabio wasn't a danger Campbell was. Fabio would only become a danger if Campbell was snuffed out and Fabio overlapped without Allen tracking him which Allen was positioned to do. If Campbell had been forced to play the ball out wide that's when Flanagan goes joins Allen not continue to double up on a possible runner who never actually commits to the overlap.
 

gingerbread

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Not sure I get you. Are you basically saying that because Agger is a good enough defender that whenever we concede it's his fault because with his skills and talents if he had been in the right place he would have stopped the goal? He wasn't involved at all in the first or third goals he was marking over players and covering other danger areas. Just because other players didn't do what they were supposed to doesn't mean Agger can be blamed for not abandoning the defensive shape and getting involved. And as I said no pundit has blamed Agger for the second goal they've all blamed the players who left the attacker with plenty of space to run in unopposed.
For your first question. Yes, if we conceded from his position, hence the term "he could do better".


For the first goal, he could have close down the shooting angle, especially Mignolet far angle. For the third goal, he actually man-marking, thought ihe would have intercepted the ball, but ended up completely missed the cross.

Allen (was it?) should close down faster to prevent the cross, or Gerrard could have tracked it back to rpevent the shot. But once again, I do not expect them to be able to do that on basis
 

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Sorry on the side of the ex footballers and manager here mate completely disagree Fabio wasn't a danger Campbell was. Fabio would only become a danger if Campbell was snuffed out and Fabio overlapped without Allen tracking him which Allen was positioned to do. If Campbell had been forced to play the ball out wide that's when Flanagan goes joins Allen not continue to double up on a possible runner who never actually commits to the overlap.
We were pressing. You cannot execute a pressing defence and leave an open outlet forward, which is what they would have to be saying. That is fundamental to the concept. It is a particularly moronic comment in light of how critical Fabio's overlapping run was to the buildup of the first goal. Gerrard should probably have been closer to Campbell, but basically I see both Flanagan and Gerrard's failures on the play as a product of Allen simply not performing his role in that instance. The whole scheme collapses with no ball pressure. Equally, Agger might have done better, but letting a striker take an open run at a centre back like that is just not sound.

I basically don't trust English football punditry, ex-players and managers almost universally included, viz. the universal consensus that zonal marking on set pieces is fundamentally unsound, despite routine use elsewhere...in places that supply managers to England.
 

SoueysTash

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
1st goal Mutch was Gerrards man, if he'd stayed tight that never happens.

2nd goal as pointed out on Goals on Sunday you see Agger and Skrtel point out Campbell to Flanagan who then stays with Allen marking the decoy runner of Fabio who never gets involved and Gerrard and Henderson never track back.

3rd goal doesn't happen unless Jones beats Skrtel and Johnson to knock down the ball.

Agger may have had some blame in the goals if you want to find it but bizarrely the only people blaming him are Liverpool fans. Not seen any pundits say anything to blame him!
Pundits Lol they've spent all their time fauning over Suarez and sturridge. That's my opinion on the goals - I couldn't care less whether pundits agree...we need to stamp out this lacksadaisical defending. Sakho is superior to agger on form, so get him in before we need to win a tight game...
 

gingerbread

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Oh and unlike some people commented, even with the drop on form, i still think Agger is perfect player for us in the long term. Experienced and loyal, More important, he is content on the bench and fight for his place, perfect to create the needed competition and squad rotation
 

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gingerbread said:
Oh and unlike some people commented, even with the drop on form, i still think Agger is perfect player for us in the long term. Experienced and loyal, More important, he is content on the bench and fight for his place, perfect to create the needed competition and squad rotation
Technically he's very good and fits into the pass & move philosophy admirably, but that's of little use when he's continually getting beaten the air while defending corners, FKs and crosses. The last time I looked, the primary job of a CB was to defend effectively, both on the ground and in the air. I think that we've conceded more headed goals in the Premiership than any other team, and that absolutely has to be corrected next season. I personally think that Dagger will be on his way next season because BR won't be able to promise him regular starts and also because he's on too much money.

We need tough uncompromising CBs at the heart of our defence, Dagger isn't one of those unfortunately.
 

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EdWood said:
Technically he's very good and fits into the pass & move philosophy admirably, but that's of little use when he's continually getting beaten the air while defending corners, FKs and crosses. The last time I looked, the primary job of a CB was to defend effectively, both on the ground and in the air. I think that we've conceded more headed goals in the Premiership than any other team, and that absolutely has to be corrected next season. I personally think that Dagger will be on his way next season because BR won't be able to promise him regular starts and also because he's on too much money.

We need tough uncompromising CBs at the heart of our defence, Dagger isn't one of those unfortunately.
We are going to have a lot of two-game weeks next year, so I would not expect replacing him to be a priority. Not disregarding your points, but there would seem to be a lot of other obvious holes to plug in this squad if we are to sustain two or more competitions.