• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

Post Match: Cardiff 3 Liverpool 6

Herb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
7,473
JoebloggsLFC said:
I think it's because it came across as rather abrupt & he's still very much a manc at heart so 2 and 2 put together by the media makes 22 not 4 like it normally would?

& if you can understand what I just said then your way smarter than i am... lol



think i'll head back over to the what are listening thread instead....whilst getting me coat on the way. :ph34r:
Talking more about our fans though who seem to find it hilarious. If the roles were reversed and it was the mancs challenging and somebody ex-Liverpool would have said that we'd probably be saying go 'ead.
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
Arminius said:
We are going to have a lot of two-game weeks next year, so I would not expect replacing him to be a priority. Not disregarding your points, but there would seem to be a lot of other obvious holes to plug in this squad if we are to sustain two or more competitions.
More players will be arriving in the summer and this will eat into the wage bill. As things stand, Sakho and Hurtall, despite his occasional gaffs, will be our starting CBs next season. We can't really afford to have a rumoured £100k p/wk player as a second-choice starter, no?
 

BrennansRed

New Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
510
EdWood said:
More players will be arriving in the summer and this will eat into the wage bill. As things stand, Sakho and Hurtall, despite his occasional gaffs, will be our starting CBs next season. We can't really afford to have a rumoured £100k p/wk player as a second-choice starter, no?
Any chance of Agger taking a wage cut? Be a shame to see him go and Glen Johnsons in the same wage bracket. The rest of the world is sorting their finances out but football seems to be a world within itself. Im with the point that no 100k a week is not healthy for the club for a benchwarmer but caught because ive a healthy respect for Agger and love him playing for us and want him in the team regardless of recent form. Hes been class for us for years and gets the club and i reckon hes good enough to sort out this dip hes in
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
BrennansRed said:
Any chance of Agger taking a wage cut? Be a shame to see him go and Glen Johnsons in the same wage bracket. The rest of the world is sorting their finances out but football seems to be a world within itself. Im with the point that no 100k a week is not healthy for the club for a benchwarmer but caught because ive a healthy respect for Agger and love him playing for us and want him in the team regardless of recent form. Hes been class for us for years and gets the club and i reckon hes good enough to sort out this dip hes in
I agree that he loves the club but it's not all about his salary level either. As I pointed out previously, he's too easily owned by opposition 'towers' and big CBs, particularly when defending dead ball situations. Actually I was thinking that he'd be better suited as a holding player within this system, but he'd still be behind the captain in that role.
 

BrennansRed

New Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
510
EdWood said:
I agree that he loves the club but it's not all about his salary level either. As I pointed out previously, he's too easily owned by opposition 'towers' and big CBs, particularly when defending dead ball situations. Actually I was thinking that he'd be better suited as a holding player within this system, but he'd still be behind the captain in that role.
yeah i remember a few years ago it was talked about him playing the DM. Class with the ball at his feet but yeah your right mate he's been getting pushed about a bit and can see Sakho filling his spot for the run in
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,433
EdWood said:
More players will be arriving in the summer and this will eat into the wage bill. As things stand, Sakho and Hurtall, despite his occasional gaffs, will be our starting CBs next season. We can't really afford to have a rumoured £100k p/wk player as a second-choice starter, no?
But we can afford to have Toure playing for us? He must be getting definitely 2/3 of Agger's pay and plays half the number of matches Agger plays. And is more horrible at LCB just like Skrtel when he played LCB. Even with 2 recognized LCB, we had to use Skrtel and Toure there - and this is without CL.

Personally i would keep Agger along with Skrtel, Sakho. Any change has to come from selling Toure and Coates.

Will Illori be able to backup Skrtel as fourth choice though?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
The Elusive 19th said:
But we can afford to have Toure playing for us? He must be getting definitely 2/3 of Agger's pay and plays half the number of matches Agger plays. And is more horrible at LCB just like Skrtel when he played LCB. Even with 2 recognized LCB, we had to use Skrtel and Toure there - and this is without CL.

Personally i would keep Agger along with Skrtel, Sakho. Any change has to come from selling Toure and Coates.

Will Illori be able to backup Skrtel as fourth choice though?
This, although I'd keep Toure for his contracted year next year and take the opportunity to get Ilori out on loan playing week in week out all year. If there is an improvement to make at CB it's for a less error prone RCB not getting rid of one of our two fantastic LCBs especially the one that gives us our best defensive records when he plays.
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
The Elusive 19th said:
But we can afford to have Toure playing for us? He must be getting definitely 2/3 of Agger's pay and plays half the number of matches Agger plays. And is more horrible at LCB just like Skrtel when he played LCB. Even with 2 recognized LCB, we had to use Skrtel and Toure there - and this is without CL.

Personally i would keep Agger along with Skrtel, Sakho. Any change has to come from selling Toure and Coates.

Will Illori be able to backup Skrtel as fourth choice though?
Toure won't be here either I don't think. Tbh he wasn't even in my calculations. We should know that FSG seem to be really focused on the size of the wage bill and if a player is not up to snuff as far as BR is concerned, he'll be let go in the summer I'm thinking. Kolo is past it now sadly. He was only brought in as cover this season after all and has only got so much game time because of injuries to Sakho and Agger. As soon as Coates is fit he'll be gone also. Glen Johnson I'm pretty sure will be moved on because of wages and loss of form. I'm afraid Enrique's mystery injury may be career-threatening. It's obvious that Cissokho won't be retained.

The blood-letting among our defensive personnel is going to be spectacular this summer. I suspect that a large majority of the designated transfer fund will be used in an effort to solve our defensive short comings.

Edit: We'll have Ilori and Wisdom back but will they be ready for first team duty? I don't know.

Wow, I just realised that the above analysis represents a player turnaround of simply epic proportions! :eek:
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
The FSG wage cut obsession is over exaggerated beyond all comprehension. The wages haven't actually come down, the financial reports prove that, they've just been redistributed to contributing players. Our squad players used to be far too well paid.
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
26,629
EdWood said:
Wow, I just realised that the above analysis represents a player turnaround of simply epic proportions! :eek:
Exactly why I think it won't happen. Even on a net spend basis, assuming decent prices for outgoing players, that is going to be a very large amount to spend for incremental improvement in a first XI, I don't think we will have that luxury, even if FSG spend dramatically. We need depth and some players for roles we simply don't have now.

Agger might be on the expensive side, but probably not the same financial demand as replacing him. I expect Agger will be a better fit for most European competition, where big forwards are less likely and ball control is at a premium. We have seemingly sort of forgotten the juggling that Rafa had to do to make up for the fact that we lacked two starters for every position, but I don't think that means we are necessarily going to do it again.
 

NZred

The Red From NZ
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,798
Arminius said:
We are going to have a lot of two-game weeks next year, so I would not expect replacing him to be a priority. Not disregarding your points, but there would seem to be a lot of other obvious holes to plug in this squad if we are to sustain two or more competitions.
How do you figure that? Our defense has been the absolute worst part of our play this season. We leak goals, soft pathetic ones at that, like a relegation threatened team. All of the goals we conceded on Saturday were as a result from absolutely shocking defending, lacks marking and lazy tracking.

That to me is a rather large, obvious hole that needs to be address.
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
26,629
NZred said:
How do you figure that? Our defense has been the absolute worst part of our play this season. We leak goals, soft pathetic ones at that, like a relegation threatened team. All of the goals we conceded on Saturday were as a result from absolutely shocking defending, lacks marking and lazy tracking.

That to me is a rather large, obvious hole that needs to be address.
Well, despite saying that Flanagan has been over-criticized, I would definitely put left back as a higher priority. Not sure we are ever going to see Enrique playing at his old level again, and I am not sure he would be CL-grade anyway. That is at least one and maybe two left backs we need to have 2-deep cover.

I think we need a more aggressive ball-winner as DM, but perhaps Rodgers doesn't, so let's say not. Maybe Gerrard and Lucas can see us through another season, though I am willing to bet many here won't believe that.

Both of those positions go right to the defensive shortcomings you raise, arguably in this very game.

We need a wide forward to play the 4-3-3 I don't think Rodgers has given up on.

That's three CL quality players I would put on our list ahead of upgrading Agger as second choice to Sakho. I would not even put left side centre back ahead of right side centre back. Toure is nearing the end of the line. I haven't seen any of Wisdom at Derby, maybe he is ready to take that step, but otherwise, I would clearly put a CL quality right side CB ahead of a left side one.

Others could certainly add, but even at 3 positions, we are probably looking at bringing in north of 60M worth of players.
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
NZred said:
How do you figure that? Our defense has been the absolute worst part of our play this season. We leak goals, soft pathetic ones at that, like a relegation threatened team. All of the goals we conceded on Saturday were as a result from absolutely shocking defending, lacks marking and lazy tracking.

That to me is a rather large, obvious hole that needs to be address.
Agreed. Our attacking is our strength of course, and everyone knows our defending is our weakness. It's common sense to address this problem area before any other.
 

NZred

The Red From NZ
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,798
Arminius said:
Well, despite saying that Flanagan has been over-criticized, I would definitely put left back as a higher priority. Not sure we are ever going to see Enrique playing at his old level again, and I am not sure he would be CL-grade anyway. That is at least one and maybe two left backs we need to have 2-deep cover.

I think we need a more aggressive ball-winner as DM, but perhaps Rodgers doesn't, so let's say not. Maybe Gerrard and Lucas can see us through another season, though I am willing to bet many here won't believe that.

Both of those positions go right to the defensive shortcomings you raise, arguably in this very game.

We need a wide forward to play the 4-3-3 I don't think Rodgers has given up on.

That's three CL quality players I would put on our list ahead of upgrading Agger as second choice to Sakho. I would not even put left side centre back ahead of right side centre back. Toure is nearing the end of the line. I haven't seen any of Wisdom at Derby, maybe he is ready to take that step, but otherwise, I would clearly put a CL quality right side CB ahead of a left side one.

Others could certainly add, but even at 3 positions, we are probably looking at bringing in north of 60M worth of players.
Reading our posts back to back, I think we both agree our defense is a problem, I think we just differ on what the specific problem area is and what positions are better filled than others at present?

Would love to know what the hell is going on with Enriques injury.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
Just out of curiosity, and because I can never keep up with the rules on this, had Gerrard got himself a second yellow in the game would he have got a ban against Sunderland, but been back for Spurs?

Might have missed a trick there...
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
26,629
NZred said:
Reading our posts back to back, I think we both agree our defense is a problem, I think we just differ on what the specific problem area is and what positions are better filled than others at present?

Would love to know what the hell is going on with Enriques injury.
Basically, yes - left centre back is to my mind our deepest defensive position, where left back is our weakest. We have been doing remarkably well considering Rodgers has been jury-rigging the position between a loanee and two right backs playing the other side, one of whom is a young player probably 75% of this forum thought should be shown the door last August. Which may in fact make the argument that right back is the deepest position. Similarly, Toure was a good pick-up and has contributed to this wonderful season, but he is certainly not the future, maybe not even next year.
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
Bonkers game. Practically no team in the entire league has defensive nouse or ability anymore - well except Chelsea probably - and it's getting a little silly now.

Let's get the bad points out of the way;

Gerrard again showed he's not an anchoring midfielder. He was straining to get anywhere near Mutch on the first goal and failed to pick him up for their third. A proper DM sees that danger much earlier and doesn't need to sprint and lunge. Gerrard is an awesome footballer, but he doesn't have that ability to read defensively. I'm sorry it's just not there.

Conceding three goals against a shit team isn't good. It slightly undoes some of our very good working in keeping clean sheets against Southampton and United. Two steps forward, maybe half a step back.

Good points (many more of those);

Again we've found ourselves in trouble and got out of it. Twice.

We've just come through 3 straight away games with 9 points & 12 goals scored.

I have nothing to add regarding Suarez & Sturridge

We're still in the fucking hunt people!!

Come on!!

Arrrgghhhh!!!
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
anglian_red said:
Gerrard again showed he's not an anchoring midfielder. He was straining to get anywhere near Mutch on the first goal and failed to pick him up for their third. A proper DM sees that danger much earlier and doesn't need to sprint and lunge. Gerrard is an awesome footballer, but he doesn't have that ability to read defensively. I'm sorry it's just not there.
Gerrard wasn't anywhere near Mutch on the first goal because he moves into space down the line to give Allen/Flanagan an option when Allen wins the ball, not expecting him to give it away cheaply.

I'm not sure how you've blamed him for the 3rd. Possibly getting confused with Henderson?
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
Oh the biggest mistake on the first is Allen, that's obvious. But after that happens the team still has time to sort it out. A Makelele type player would've already had a picture of where all attacking Cardiff players were before Allen even got the ball, let alone gave it away. Gerrard reacted after he lost it - and not very quickly.

From what I saw of the third, Mutch runs from outside the box to the six yard line with fairly simple movement to get onto a knock down. Somebody should be tracking him.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
I agree that he could have done more on the first, it was possible to, I just think it's a quite a harsh criticism and it's not really a damning indication he can't be a good holding midfielder.

For the 3rd, Gerrard tracked Zaha out wide which left Mutch free in the middle. Henderson didn't get back to cover, Agger was left in no mans land, Skrtel gets caught under the ball and isn't picking up Jones or Mutch. Certainly no blame for Gerrard here, he can't be in two places at the same time.
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
It may sound harsh but I just think this position is Brendan's blind spot. Considering how we've struggled when Lucas has been out long term in the past, I'm surprised we've still not recruited even average backup for his position. In the case of this game, I'm certain we wouldn't have conceded 3 if Lucas was playing and that's linked to your point about Henderson on their third. If both Lucas & Gerrard were playing, one or the other would've picked up that run. Do you think Lucas would've been caught as easily as Henderson was?

Some might say we wouldn't have scored 6 if Lucas was playing. Nobody knows. What I do know is goal difference could win this title and conceding 3 against teams in the relegation zone isn't clever.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
Our goal difference got bettered by 3. And as it goes, 6-3 is better than 3-0
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
6-0 is better than 6-3 and Cardiff are shit enough for us to have won 6-0. Just a little bit of concentration would've kept the 3 out.

It's not just this game, it's the 4-3 against Swansea as well. The 5-3 against Stoke also comes to mind. You'll tell me that's better than 1-0 and 2-0, but with our goals scored and attacking players we should be out of sight in terms of goal difference. City are actually very close to us having played less games.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
9 points out of 9 in those 3 games mentioned and our goal difference went 6 better.

If that's all you have to moan about, we're probably looking pretty good at the minute.
 

mattyhurst

TIA Regular
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
15,348
The issue was we played poorly in that first half...

When we played well ie: the previous two we conceded nothing, our team the way we play is always open to conceding 1 as happened in the second half, but errors and poor play are the reason we conceded the first two.
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
All I'm saying is it should be more. We've done enough for it to be more.

I didn't expect us to be fighting for the title this season. I thought 4th place at the very best. Even when we were top on Christmas Day I wasn't convinced, because we still hadn't played City or Chelsea. After those games I was sure we were out of the race as I felt we needed something from those two, but now I'm thinking we can still do it.

Most of the season I've thought this has all come a bit too early for us and Brendan himself has said even getting back in the Champions League is happening a year earlier than he honestly expected. If you'd offered me 2nd place back in August I'd have ripped several limbs off, but now in mid March I think I'll actually be disappointed if we don't win it, because if we don't win it it'll be for really silly, avoidable reasons.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
Semmy said:
After that match, SaS could just as well be Suarez and Skrtel
I guess we should start buying players with S as their first letter to their first or last name then.... Skrtel and Sterling were running riot against Arsenal I believe. Steven Gerrard been getting loads of praise of late too. NZRed mentioned about Scott Sinclair, and Suso coming back for next season. World domination?
 

anglian_red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
2,181
Who'd have thought Skrtel would become such a reliable goal threat? It took him three odd years to score one goal for Liverpool, now I think he has more than Torres this season?
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,433
EdWood said:
Toure won't be here either I don't think. Tbh he wasn't even in my calculations. We should know that FSG seem to be really focused on the size of the wage bill and if a player is not up to snuff as far as BR is concerned, he'll be let go in the summer I'm thinking. Kolo is past it now sadly. He was only brought in as cover this season after all and has only got so much game time because of injuries to Sakho and Agger. As soon as Coates is fit he'll be gone also. Glen Johnson I'm pretty sure will be moved on because of wages and loss of form. I'm afraid Enrique's mystery injury may be career-threatening. It's obvious that Cissokho won't be retained.

The blood-letting among our defensive personnel is going to be spectacular this summer. I suspect that a large majority of the designated transfer fund will be used in an effort to solve our defensive short comings.

Edit: We'll have Ilori and Wisdom back but will they be ready for first team duty? I don't know.

Wow, I just realised that the above analysis represents a player turnaround of simply epic proportions! :eek:
So you are basically keeping skrtel, sakho and flanno. Bring in 5 defenders?